I would point out to do your homework before you open your mouth,
but since you are kinda biased on this matter.... I wont :1orglaugh

Not necessarily.

GFY is like the adult media, people jump on here to broadcast their opinions, problems or updates. Like the media, there's always a few core people that jump on board to believe anything they read without concern for the true details that led to the problem or regard for the other half of the story.

Every problem has it's source, a few posts about 1 comany's problems does not prove that every other program using NATS has the same problem, to think that is ignorant.

Just for the record, we have a very close relationship with NATS and have gone great lengths to insure the accuracy of their tracking. We double check their reports with our processors daily and there has never been any discrepancy.

If anyone would like to talk more about this, or has any concerns or questions regarding Radical Cash & our sales tracking, feel free to contact me anytime.

ICQ 266893121

How does a post back error turn into malicious intent or shaving? Anytime one server in one locartion has to send data to another there can be loss. That's why you check stats in both places and that's why you have the ability to add sales for people so they get paid fairly. If the person running the program is dilligent and honest there is no problem.

This is similar to when you use third party traffic counters... it's the net... something always gets lost somewhere along the way so you have to be smart enough to double check it. If the route from say CCBill's box in Az to your Nats (or whatever other system you use) box in East Jabib has a problem then there wil be data not posted back. Check your stats in both places regularly and make sure your affiliates get all their sales assigned to them and there is no problem. This is true with ANY software even if you write your own.

It's not that JSA had the intention to get this started, and you know it.

If you force someone into the corner with false allegations, don't wonder about the outcome :winkwink:

who in their right mind would want to cause drama for themselves... i cant wait to see what nats has to say about this..

You're joking right?

Spending all day tracking down errors and spending all day defending the honesty and validity of our program are two different things. Do you honestly believe I am here because this is something I enjoy?

What I enjoy is seeing a backend software solution work as promised. That maes me happy. Paying out all of our affiliates on time with the correct amounts makes me happy.

People need to see past all the opinions. I knew as this thread grew, more NATS users would defend NATS. I understand that. I used to do it everytime John sent Alex or I a thread link asking us to say "a few kind words". And we did.

Sometimes though, life throws you a curve, you need to step back, admit fault in your decisions, apologize to those you affected, and make things right with everyone.

We could no longer continue with NATS. I hope others can. If it is working for them, I wish them great success, and hope they do well. For us, that was not the case.

I'm not bending your words, so stop crying like a little girl about it.

You claim your proof is perfect, we'll see how it comes out in the wash I guess.

I'd also be more than willing to bet that when NATS releases a statement regarding this situation, it will be oriented on the facts and that alone.

Still no YES or NO.

I am not attacking anyone here verbally, although I see you are. Are you acting in their capacity? Are you paid by them any sort of compensation? I am just curious.

Do you now work for them or with them? Are you in constant contact with them today?

All questions I would love to know the answers to. Call me a little girl all you want if it makes you feel better.

No, I'm not joking. This drama has been up here for two days. Its obvious the business relationship was not working for either party. What's going to settle it...pistols at dawn? Its just mud slinging at this point, which doesn't do either company any good. Its time to move on.

Had they left it at the original thread about moving backends it wouldn't have come to allegations.

The offer is still open. Anyone can come look at our books, go through our software, or view our evidence of any errors or mistakes.

JSA Media Group, Inc.
10225 Barnes Canyon Road, Suite A204
San Diego, California 92121

We hide nothing.

kimmys just doing her job

I was just curious as to what her "job" is.

Ok guys here are my :2 cents:

I have been around for about 3 years and in this time I have seen allot of things come and go, good companies fight back for there reputation and be better for it in the long run and some people/companies fall over at the first problem.

Below Is what I have seen in the cascading/backend billing/fulfillment software.

MPA
----

Oystein and Gary - Both very good professional people who have great business minds have got a very good foothold in the market, there company has had some bad press in the past but have come back from this and are now a VERY solid solution, never talk down or slander any other company. There solution is very solid and this is why we have stuck with them and are very happy with them over the last 2 years.

NATS
-----

Very unprofessional, met them at internet for the first time, did not want to sell us there solution and seem to be very unprofessional on the message boards, there software is very untested and new and therefore people I have spoke to believe they will run into problems which MPA have already been through... only time will tell if this company is as strong as MPA and will come through the "teething stage"

My conclusion is go with the longer standing more professional set-up, this is only what I have seen and this is all I can comment on, maybe we meet NATS on a bad day or maybe others have had a better response, either way I strongly recommend MPA for the long term solution and I will offer my past comments and suggestions to anyone.

MensNiche is here to help everyone and make some $$ on the way!

Good luck with any decisions you guys make and hopefully you remember my comments if it works out... :) have a great day!

enter wrest eng

Had they not said that the reason we switched backends was because we were "asked to leave NATS", this thread probably wouldn't even exist.

step off.

holy shit

Well, then, since you asked, I'll be more than happy to clue you in.

I'm a consultant, people hire me to figure out how they can make more money. I'm pretty good at it, too, that's the reason I consult instead of being an employee somewhere. I've got great references if you guys need some help. :)

As to the NATS situation, I do PR for them. They are a decent bunch of guys, one of my favorite clients actually. They don't go around starting needless drama and make my life harder.

My comments in this thread are my own, and I base them on what's been posted and what I've heard from multiple sources with involvement in the situation.

My advice to them was not to post in this thread, but to make a statement regarding the situation that doesn't involve mudslinging or more silly drama. It's up to them what they choose to do but I'm sure they will do it with a good bit of grace and class.

I think he's doing this because of

hope you guys all get this sorted out

.. I'm doin' the hump!

(sorry, had to.. :winkwink: )

amp doesnt know negro spirituals

Thanx for admitting the false allegations issue.

And exactly that was what forced them to post more than the original thread.

Sometimes trying to 'save face' the wrong way can turn around and smack you right in the face. Watch this thread, it's the best example.

However, I hope this gets resolved for both parties satisfaction without hurting business.

I know JSA are straight shooters with nothing to hide,but after John calling them liars and telling me some more what was not posted here I could not say I'm sure I could say the same about NATS and the company behind it.

I tend to always hear both sides of a story, one was way off without proof,
the other looked more on side of truth and gave proof, now who do you want to blame for what they believe in? :winkwink:

Remaining professional is always a good business descision, don't you agree?

Actually, it doesn't. NATS is great software and we've never had a problem paying our affiliates what they are owed. We compare our NATS stats daily with the billing processor backend stats to verify correctness. In fact we had an error in which our fraudulant checks were not removed from our NATS statistics. We did pay out on this and we did take the loss. With some contact, the issue was resolved and the same problem hasn't arrisen again.

The problem here is with some data being lost while the 2 backends were communicating. This happens in the world of software, and I'm sure it'll happen many more times with many other companies.

There is no motive for NATS to shave rebills. They don't benefit from anything like this. It wouldn't help them sell their product if they had a bad reputation, and they have no way to funnel this money to themselves. Data losses do happen. This is why it's key to always do a once over with your own eyes to make sure everything is lined up.

I'm sorry J&A about the error. I'm not disrespecting you guys or trying to validate what happened. The best thing to do is to resolve this in private with the company in question. All that happened is that this has become a one sided public mudslinging event. While you are dragging NATS's name through the mud, you are also dragging companies that use NATS along with them. Whether or not this has happened with anybody but yourselves, you are also herding many sheep away from programs utilizing this software. Good luck with your future endeavours.

Interesting that you'd say both sides of the story. My granny always says that there are 3 sides to every story. This one happens to have more than that.

But hey, everyone likes a good bit of drama right before a show, Phoenix should be interesting.

No disrespect, but did you actually read everything around this issue, or do you just fly over the posts and assume you read all?

Thanx

And that is the last thing we want to is harm other companies using NATS. We know we have common affiliates that push both of our programs sometimes, and we want you to keep them happy and profitable as much as we do.

But they also deserve the right to know what is going on. I am sure you do not disagree.

They are our partners, and we will continue to treat them that way. I apologize if our actions have cause you grief. We have only stated that these problems were ones we experienced. I hope you did not.

(edit typos)

Supporting one software over another is a lose/lose situation in this case.
One software seems to have a few bugs in it that they couldn´t/wouldn´t fix the other don´t mind giving a helping hand to affiliate program owners wanting to cheat and steal from their affiliates. You can keep this up for the next 90 days and the supporters of each program will stand by their decision but is one program better than the other for every webmaster? Webmasters can only find out for themselves.

For webmasters it comes down to which ever program makes you the most money not what program they use cause can you really trust anyone? Mistakes/bugs will happen and cheaters and scammers will always be around.

Official NATS statement regarding JSA
 

Let me point out directly that we hope JSA finds what they are looking for in MPA3, we realize that no one solution is perfect for every company, and we welcome competition.

That said, we feel that a statement from our point of view is in order to clear up some of the rumors and accusations that have been flying around the past 24 hours or so.

Let me first of all address the Electracash issue Chris brought up:

We were told about a rebill problem JSA had via our Ticket System on Wed Nov 24, 2004 05:08:27pm. What followed were a few other posts by Chris explaining the issue in more detail to give us the most information he could get us. We looked into it and replied about it on Wed Nov 24, 2004 08:54:17pm. Our reply basically said, we have found the issue and will work on it to get it fixed right away. (I'm going to spare everyone with the details about what the problem was.) We also assured JSA that no data is lost, it is all on Electracash's side, we simply have to fetch it from their backend and put it into the NATS database. On Sun Nov 28, 2004 03:39:31pm we informed JSA of an implementation issue we had with Electracash and to please switch ACH to one of their other billers that do support this also until we have it fixed. We gave them detailed information on what the issue was and told them we are working on it together with Electracash. This issue took longer to be resolved together with Electracash than we expected and it was just 100% fixed two or so weeks ago.
JSA's ticket about the rebills was kept open by us so we do not forget to import their rebills once the issue was resolved. JSA however closed this ticket on Tue Jan 11, 2005 02:01:32pm and thus we did not notice them still having the issue when the integration was finally fixed.
I can not find any other ticket regarding Electracash rebills from them in our ticketing system.

JSA has claimed there were other reporting issues. I am sure I know which ones they talk about, but will not comment in detail on every one of them because I do not feel we need to continue pushing eachother in a bad light where it is absolutely uncalled for. Let me make one thing clear though, JSA currently has not a single open ticket in our ticketing system. The last ticket they posted is from March 17th and was promptly explained and resolved.

If anyone has detailed questions about this, please let me know on ICQ, I will try to stay up as long as I can to answer all your questions. Please understand I can not go into details of our client's systems without them letting me do so.

Why would I comment on something without reading everything? Especially when the subject in question is a product that we utilize?

I'm talking to Alex. I am in no way talking down on anybody.

You know, both NATS and MPA are great programs. They are complex programs and like it or not folks, they are going to have bugs. I didn't understand when everyone jumped on the "mpa is shit" bandwagon not so long ago and now it seems that the glorious NATS is in the same boat. There aren't that many options out there when it comes to reliable affiliate software (and again, I think that NATS and MPA are both reliable.) Shaving features were initially added to programs because the webmasters wanted it and then the programs were ripped to shreds because of it. Not to mention, let's all just acknowledge that fact that unethical programs can find ways to shave if they want (as addressed earlier in this thread). I don't know why people won't just face that fact without placing so much blame everywhere else. Anyhow, now the programs have done away with the features because the webmasters wanted it. Running an affiliate program is not easy. You have to constantly watch your stats and get up your tech's asses all the time. And hopefully you have good techs. By the way, we use MPA and we've had our share of technical problems, but nothing that we couldn't handle. I am very happy there as many are happy with NATS. I think that this, and who knows what other problems are just going to be a part of running your own program if you do not have your own software written and a crew of programmers to keep it running. That's the facts folks. BTW, iBanker, I am really sorry to hear about your Electracash payout problems. Sounds like a real nightmare. Hopefully, the people at NATS will step up and get that fixed for you asap.

shocking isn't it? esp when you can pickup or get the stuff coded for anywhere from 2.5 to 25k...that's a small investment if you're seriously planning on doing biz, and if you can't self-generate that many sales, it might be best to consider learning how to do that BEFORE opening up an affiliate program.....the only sales you can really rely on are the ones you generate yourself...

Hey iBanker. I'm sorry to hear about the problems. I'm glad that you were able to catch an issue. Perhaps you have just uncovered something big.

Has anyone else found a similar problem?

I'm not saying you are wrong at all. Obviously you uncovered a big faux pas, but I'm always one to err to the side of caution.

I've heard nothing but good things about NATS, so I'd be surprised if there is a conspiracy, but I'm interested in hearing everything about this so that if there truly is a problem that it's exposed.

However, to be fair, I'd like to hear about more information on this including the accounts of any other folks affected.

Billie raises some good points. Basically the whole argument about shaving and not really comes down to the webmaster program, not the software they use. Do you trust who you are sending traffic to? Does you check look good every month... I mean is it about anything but that at the end of the day?

Send 10,000 to Sponsor X and make $500
or
Send 10,000 to Sponsor Y and make $750.

Who you gonna send to? Do you care what happens beyond that? People just like drama and to have something to go on about because otherwise they are bored. I'd be the same way if I wasn't so occupied beating off all the time.

During the time period of november 28 and up to a few weeks ago was everyone who was useing your software made aware of these issues?

No Steve, this is not a conspiracy. :) I do hope it was just us that experienced these problems. I would also like to know if other NATS users are experiencing the same problems we did. Mind you, we have only outlined one of what we consider major problems we encountered so far. There were others as well, some small, some big.

Maybe but there is no reason to make it easy for scammers to steal.

Yes, all our clients that were using electracash at the time were told about the issue. All new clients coming on board that used electracash were told about this also.

Couldn't agree with this more. And all indications are that our next payout will be our higher than when we were with NATS.

Would like to know more from the surfers about how they feel about their payout with nats v. using programs that don't us them.

Would make for an interesting conversation I think.