The TGP2 movement is underrated

[ADL Colin]

In a Ynot interview released today, Connor Young says that "The TGP2 movement is pretty under-rated right now." Why in YOUR opinion, GFY, us TGP2 underrated right now?

Here is the full context of the question and answer and the link:

YNOT: What do you think have been the biggest stories of this industry for the year 2001?

Connor: Hmmm, that?s a tough one. The nomination and confirmation of John Ash***** is certainly up there, as is the Supreme Court?s timing in their decision to review COPA. I have been trying to keep up on what?s going on with Mike Jones and his legal battles. Certainly the virtual child porn law stands to affect us all if not defeated, as does VISA?s recent announcement of improved card security measures. I also think the September 11th terrorist attacks have significantly impacted the industry. That was tough to deal with emotionally for many of us, and it spawned a dangerous new wave of legislation that may very well come back to haunt us. The TGP2 movement is pretty under-rated right now.
http://www.ynotmasters.com/news/ynew...01/page14.html

[The Truth]

Colin -

I respect you a lot and know that you have a lot of stake in the TGP2 movement so naturally you are going to be one of it's biggest supporters but....

I think it's way OVER rated. I have had a TGP2 built for a few weeks and have postponed launching it cuz I just don't see it taking off like it could have. One of the biggest problems is that it's completely saturated with newbies who have made their first site a TGP2. I also keep seeing guys promoting their site as a TGP2 to the surfers... even including the #2 in the name of the site. I've said from the begining that this was a bad move for obvious reasons.

I've also converted a couple hundred of my galls to TGP2 format and submitted them to the pools.. etc... It cracks me up to see the traffic these sites kick out. Some of the listings don't even show up on counters and the bulk of the ones that do are showing 2 or 3 daily hits. The handful of TGP2's that seem to have any traffic are those owned by old school TGPer's who are no doubt feeding these sites with their TGP1's. There just seems to be no real influx of rookie surfers latching on to the movement. It's almost as if it's too late. I wish all of this wasn't true but it's my experience so far.

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[Bake]

I love the idea and I have a tgp2 site the other day when I hit over 7k I was in the top 15 tgp2 sites witch is really next to nothing , bookmarkers are as slow as fuck and mine is mostly SE and trade traffic sales are much better than tgp1 but not as good as free sites Ive tryed most of the things that work to make traffic in tgp1 but traffic is still shit ? I was hopeing it would be rolling buy now and now Im not so sure it will.

[ADL Colin]

Some interesting and thoughtful comments.
Thank you. I am interested in hearing more.

I agree that the top TGP2s are owned by experienced TGP1 webmasters. However, my understanding is that none of them are feeding their TGP1 traffic in anymore. I know I'm not. I'm not funneling any extra traffic in at the moment. I sent only a few thousand hits to each of my TGP2s to get them started. Some of the other TGP2 webmasters at the top have told me the same thing. So I can't say "all" .. but i can safely say "most" I think. Every once in a while I push an extra 500 hits in or so to see if it gives me a boost, but only very infrequently.

I am one of it's biggest supporters, probably it's biggest. Why? Because it makes sense and makes money NOW. I am averaging one half cent per click to my TGP2s.

10,000 hits/day = $1500/month.

With multiple TGP2s, a fairly experienced "traffic conducter" can run about 50k/day of TGP2 traffic right now. About $7500/month. If you start at the top TGP2s and click on the top trades, you will find a lot of 10k-20k TGP2s not currently on the counters.

I agree on not promoting the words "TGP2" on my sites. I may have it on one. I experiment. I agree with your point. There are a lot of newbie TGP2 webmasters that don't have a clue (yet).

That being said, there are a lot of webmasters doing stupid things in TGP2, in TGP1, in CJ, in AVS, etc. I ignore them. The smart ones, the ones that survive, differentiate themselves. They take the time to figure out what really works v. what people say work.

TGP2 is ripe for experienced traffic traders with good scripts. New sites that appear often run right up to 10k without any effort at all. There are some very experienced webmasters involved in TGP2 and theyare doing fine.

We have the "TGP2 Brainstorm" session in Vegas coming up and I expect very good things from it. More than half of the top 20 TGP2 sites will be represented there.



[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 12-27-2001).]

[Ludedude]

Hrm...The Truth is right in some aspects. I was feeding my first TGP2 site with all sorts of 404, 403, exit and redirected traffic from various places...ALL TGP1 traffic.

He is also 100% correct about calling a site TGP2 this or that...it's fucking stupid, Colin, and more than one person has said so on the tgp2 board only to be soundly ignored. Of course, it's only the clueless newbies that are doing it...the guys with 3 hits a day to send to a gallery, but still there are more of them than there are competent players in the TGP2 game.

I've been a staunch supporter of that movement from the very beginning but it's not all roses, not by a long shot, however if more people who actually know what they're doing like the concept and get involved rather than sit around on their asses for something to happen, then maybe it will happen that much quicker...and I speak the truth.


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[ADL Colin]

LudeDude,

The majority of top TGP2 webmasters do it very part time. I have spent well less than 5 hours per week on my TGP2s since it's inception. Despite this very minimal time spent, my TGP2s make decent money. More than my TGP1s. You are right about a certain complacency among top TGP2 webmasters to spend more time on TGP2 itself. And yet .. those TGP2s are making decent money.

I think our January meeting in Vegas will change all this complacency. With this meeting, I think we will find that with a higher level of committment TGP2 can move along much faster than it has.

In my estimate, the top 20% of TGP2 webmasters traffic-wise spend about 5 hours each per week on their site and the bottom
80% probably spend 20-30 hours per week on TGP2. These are my estimates based on private correspondance. What happens when the top 20% increase their hours? Nothing happens in a vacuum or just because. These are new times. 2002 in a few days. It takes hard work to make new things work.

Let us meet

See

Conquer

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[ADL Colin]

So if only "clueless newbies" are doing something .. who cares? Roughly 20% of the webmasters make 80% of the money in every
free site model. TGP2 is and will be never be any different.

Not all roses? Nothing is. Being a free site webmaster is hard work. If someone is looking for magic beans, find Meni. None for sale here. I will say this. I think a new TGP2 webmaster will make more than a new TGP1 webmaster.

I have partners on some new sites and we started making TGP2s and TGp1s and eventually abandoned making new TGP1s as the money is much better in TGP2. The new TGP2s make quite a bit more than my new TGP1s.

This is because 5000 hits of TGP2 traffic makes as much money as something like 25,000 hits of TGP1 traffic. I can get 5000 new hits of TGP2 traffic tomorrow as can anyone wuth any traffic experience. But it's hard for a moderate level TGP1 webmaster (100k hits) to start a new TGP1 with 25 k hits.
Very easy for them to get 5k/day.

This is why TGP2 is better than TGP1. For the large majority of webmasters, this is true.

LudeDude, Are your comparison numbers roughly the same as mine? 5k TGP2 = 25k TGP1
And .. isn't it easy to get 5k TGP2 traffic?

There is no free ride; especially for the large majority of webmasters. There is some easy money on the table for experienced TGP1 webmasters though. Just walk over and pick it up.


[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 12-27-2001).]

[The Truth]

Originally posted by Ludedude:


however if more people who actually know what they're doing like the concept and get involved rather than sit around on their asses for something to happen, then maybe it will happen that much quicker...and I speak the truth.

No one single comment has ever had such an impact on me. You are absolutely right. I can't really bitch about it if I sit on the sidelines and wait for something positive to happen.

Colin - I will get my site rolling in the next couple days. I will have to do some tweaking and build some more galls. If you could hit me up on icq and point me to the "right" sites to trade with I'd appreciate it.

Thanks for the kick in the arse Lude ! !



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[ADL Colin]

"The Truth" .. will you be in Vegas? I would like to meet you if so.

Either way .. hit me up at
[email protected]
or [email protected]

I don't have ICQ. I'm old school. I like long thoughtful emails though and always open to the big conversation via such. Please write

PS ... Lude dude and I will both be in Vegas in January. There is a TGP2 Summit called "TGP2 Brainstorm". Saturday at 1pm. Insite is letting us use the Insite private Suite for a sit, talk, and discuss TGP2 Brainstorming session. Very nice room plus refreshments, etc. Everything we need to be comfortable. Nice setting.

[This message has been edited by Colin (edited 12-27-2001).]

[Ludedude]

My point was not that it affects the top 20% of the earners. My point is that it seems that quest to "re-educate" the porn surfer and yes, porn webmaster, and inject the system with a whole bunch of fresh traffic is not happening. The traffic in TGP2 is the same traffic as in TGP1. It's being traded from the same places. The situation is simply exacerbated when you slap a big-ass TGP2 label on a site...and you know if you happened to snag a newbie AOL surfer he's gotta be saying to himself "what is TGP1?"

That was my point.

Yes, you're correct about the 20/80 split, and no, I could give a crap about the ones that work for 30 hours and whine for 29 of those.

Merry Xmas and see you in Vegas.

[Ludedude]

Originally posted by The Truth:
Thanks for the kick in the arse Lude ! !

Holy shit...what was I thinking...more competition? Just ignore what I said

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[ldinternet]

You know what would be great about TGP2?

If the webmasters kept some fucking consistency for once.

I'm trying to build a TGP2 submitter here, but every time the webmasters are changing their sites around, changing locations and all that other bullshit. I have a lot of them in the list and every day someone adds bullshit like "partners only" or "no softcore" or "add my 120k recip", or they turn into one of those "send more traffic, get more traffic back" shits. Of course I'm exaggerating a little but it's pretty idiotic at the moment. A lot of the TGP2 owners are newbies that don't know their head from their ass. There's absolutely no orgainisation on most sites. "Submit your galleries to [email protected]". How the fuck can anyone be organised when reviewing submissions through a free web-based email address? Lots of people need to get their shit together.

TGP may not be the best quality but at least they're not changing things around all the time and the submission guidelines do remain consistent.

[This message has been edited by ldinternet (edited 12-27-2001).]

[Naughty]

Id, we, as well as many other webmasters have never changed our rules, since the beginning in July.
If you read between the lines of all the endless threads about rules, you will not have such a hard time.
If you build a submitter, I assume it is your job to focus on changing sites, that comes with the territory. You cannot expect people to stick with their rules, or main address because somebody is making an autosubmitter. I never heard Midnight complain about that, did you?

If you build one of those programs, make sure people know you are and they can reach you to give you the changes they made.
I am sure it would be less than 10 changes a month... can you spare 5 minutes a month to change addresses?

Then again, I do not know what I takes to build an autosubmitter, but I think you should see the bigger picture and ignore those that come up with different rules all the time. If you have a hard time with that, build a submitter that only submits to the sites that follow all the main-rules, they never changed anywhere!

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[This message has been edited by Naughty (edited 12-27-2001).]

[ldinternet]

It's not an auto-submitter... it's something else. But the thing doesn't work if people start changing things around

Take Thumbzilla for instance... the submit page has been in the same place for years, and the form has never changed once.

[Ludedude]

Originally posted by ldinternet:
It's not an auto-submitter... it's something else. But the thing doesn't work if people start changing things around

Take Thumbzilla for instance... the submit page has been in the same place for years, and the form has never changed once.

That's the exception rather than the rule. Shit, Shemp moves and/or renames his on a weekly basis. People change rules, scripts and submit pages all the time. Building something static is a bad idea.

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[the Shemp]

Originally posted by Ludedude:
That's the exception rather than the rule. Shit, Shemp moves and/or renames his on a weekly basis.

I change the submit url fairly often to screw up the autosubmit programs. You havent lived until you have 2000 galleries a day to review. The submit rules havent changed in years.

regards

Shemp

[Ludedude]

Originally posted by the Shemp:
I change the submit url fairly often to screw up the autosubmit programs. You havent lived until you have 2000 galleries a day to review. The submit rules havent changed in years.

regards

Shemp

Yep, I know WHY you do it

[ldinternet]

If webmasters leave up an auto redirect page (the submission page has moved here) then it's not so bad. It's annoying to see a 404 error on at least one site every single day. As I already said, the program that I'm working on isn't an autosubmitter... it just automates the process of submitting by visiting the site in Internet Explorer, filling out the form, pressing the submit button, etc... not like something that submits to 500 sites in 10 seconds. At the moment I'm still submitting by hand, which brings in about 160,000 daily on one domain and 180,000 daily on the other. Shame that the banks don't cash server stats. ..it would be great it that was AVS traffic... or even TGP2 traffic, lol.

I support TGP2 and 5 pic galleries is perfect... it's just filtering out those indecisive types that can't decide on anything from one day to the next. Guess that a little extra work is the price to pay though... click through ratios from TGP2 traffic are excellent. If the larger TGPs would just impose something like a 15 pic maximum rather than listing 25 or 30 pic galleries to get an extra few bookmarkers (who are, coincidentally, the freeloaders anyway) to feed their "SexTracker ego", then I'm sure we'd all be taking home a few more pennies at the end of each month.

[ldinternet]

In fact, that was a stupid fucking comment.
We would definately be taking home a few more pennies at the end of each month. Proof is in the TGP2.

[kodek]

Tgp2 is a good idea, but seems not enough traffic I submit daily galleries and make 10x from tgp1, just because of their massive traffic. Tgp2 might be better quality but in fact I can't even estimate that.

And I agree with Idinternet, there should be some core in whole movement. With tgp1 I made a local framed submit page and rarely touch it. But I have to edit tgp2 page every day, cause of all that changes.

But anyway, it's a great idea!
I'm with it!

[Naughty]

Kodek, you run a TGP2 also? Which one? How do you do on that one?

Try it if you haven't already, most make 0.04$ per visitor.

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[This message has been edited by Naughty (edited 12-28-2001).]

[kodek]

Nope, I don't have any tgps. I make money on submitting galleries.
0,04 per visitor sounds good.
How can I make that?