Supreme Court Says NO

[ezrydn]

It's official. Supreme Court said no to review of Terri's case.

That's "game."

[FunForOne]

Its going to be a great photo-op when she dies on Easter Sunday and democrats are celebrating their victory.


"Lose the battle, Win the War"

[Giorgio_Xo]

This is a victory for all civil libertarians. Christians seem to forget that we have individual rights. The quality of life is much more important than the quantity of life.

[Barefootsies]

[benc]

So should all retards die. Surely nobody would want to live as a retard.

[tony286]

THE TERRI SCHIAVO CASE
Cult: Live, even if it kills you

> Published on: 03/24/05

Death can be a good thing, even a welcome thing. It is not, in every instance, something evil that must be fought with every weapon at our disposal.

In a rational world, that statement would not be controversial. It expresses a truth confirmed by the experience of every generation that has ever taken breath. In my own life, I have twice welcomed death on behalf of someone close to me who was in a great deal of pain. That sad experience has been shared by millions.

But as the Terri Schiavo case demonstrates, we do not live in a rational time.

Today, to acknowledge the eternal reality that death can be welcomed is to risk being branded as a killer. In the terminology of the day, it marks you as part of the Culture of Death, the force of darkness, arrayed against the Culture of Life, the force of goodness and light and love. It is idiocy, but the leaders willing to stand up and confront that idiocy are few and far between.

In this bizarre time and place, facts no longer matter. Within the communication back-channels offered through the Internet and elsewhere, facts can be mutated, invented, woven into false story lines and then broadcast as gospel to millions without fear of contradiction or challenge.

And by the time that false story hits the mainstream, it can pack a punch that knocks reality for a loop. As the Schiavo case demonstrates, that false reality can force even the government of the United States to bow down before it.

The real Terri Schiavo, the Terri described by the doctors who have examined her and in reams of court and medical records, has been in a persistent vegetative state with no cognitive functions for 15 years. She has no hope of improvement, let alone recovery. Her cerebral cortex, the seat of human reason and emotion, has atrophied into liquid and cannot possibly be restored.

The imaginary Terri, the figure concocted by the Cult of Life, is someone else entirely. The invented Terri smiles at loved ones and attempts to speak. With therapy, her nonexistent cortex can somehow be reconstituted. "She talks and she laughs and she expresses likes and discomforts," as House Majority Leader Tom Delay said. "It won't take a miracle to help Terri Schiavo. It will only take the medical care and therapy that patients require."

But those who believe in that imaginary Terri are not content with such fabrications. In their little morality tale, they have their damsel in distress in the imaginary Terri, and they have cast themselves as her heroic rescuers. But they need a villain.

So, waving the Bible but ignoring the biblical injunction against bearing false witness, they have used their imaginative powers to morph Schiavo's husband, Michael, into wife-murdering Scott Peterson, shamelessly inventing "proof" of his base character and attacking him in terms that shock decency.

It does not matter that in reality, lesser men than Schiavo would have walked away long ago. In a rational world, Schiavo would be praised for fighting for his wife, for refusing to abandon her to those who would use her for their own purposes and condemn her to a protracted existence ? not a life, an existence ? that she did not want.

It is a measure of our perversion that Michael's refusal to abandon Terri has instead been twisted into proof of his heartlessness and faithlessness.

Here's the reality. In the past 25 years, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans have at some point slipped into a persistent vegetative state. Of those cases, I have found just one in which the patient emerged into something approaching consciousness.

David Mack, a Milwaukee police officer, was shot in the line of duty in 1979 and regained consciousness after 20 months in a vegetative state.

Mack lived another five years, but he was paralyzed and could communicate only by moving his eyes across a spelling board. He told his wife that he wished the bullet had killed him. He begged for a lethal injection or for feedings to stop. He would frequently send the same message:

"I D-O-N-T W-A-N-T T-O L-I-V-E L-I-K-E T-H-I-S A-N-Y-M-O-R-E."

But 20 years ago our laws had not yet evolved to accommodate Mack's wishes, and he was condemned to live. That is what the Cult of Life wants for any of us who suffer such misfortune.

[Cassie]

i dont know which would be worse - live in a vegetative state or really live like david mack where you are literally in a living hell.

[Corona]

Nice to see the court still has balls enough to rule on the merits of the case and not the emotion of a bunch of right to life nuts.

[galleryseek]

Originally Posted by Corona

Nice to see the court still has balls enough to rule on the merits of the case and not the emotion of a bunch of right to life nuts.

yes, indeed. they made the right decision.

[Sosa]

it is stupid why someone would want someone else to live like that.

[pradaboy]

Originally Posted by Corona

Nice to see the court still has balls enough to rule on the merits of the case and not the emotion of a bunch of right to life nuts.

exactly, it's bad enough that the government just fucked over a decision made by a judge. Never heard of the Trias Politica apparently

[menace]

Originally Posted by Corona

Nice to see the court still has balls enough to rule on the merits of the case and not the emotion of a bunch of right to life nuts.

I wish you could watch her starve to death over the next week.

[Corona]

Originally Posted by menace

I wish you could watch her starve to death over the next week.

I wish you would go and spend some time in a hospice before you run off at the mouth.

[Kimmykim]

Originally Posted by menace

I wish you could watch her starve to death over the next week.

A vegetative state means that she'll be the last one to realize it.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by benc

So should all retards die. Surely nobody would want to live as a retard.

No. "retards" as you call them are quite capeable of enjoying a certain quality of life. Someone in a vegetative state for 15 (or was it 16?) years has zero quality of life.

Huge difference.

[Kevsh]

As I've said before, like to see an audit of how much taxpayer money was spent over this entire ordeal.

[menace]

Originally Posted by Corona

I wish you would go and spend some time in a hospice before you run off at the mouth.

You should shut the fuck up you don't know how many family members i've had in that same situation. Matter of fact you don't know me at all you dip shit. you just don't have the stomach to watch her die even though you think it's right. That makes you a little punk bitch in my book. If you think she should die so much and that she wanted it so much you should be able to watch her die over the next week and not be a Punk Bitch. You should be able to watch it and be happy for her right? Now you shut YOUR mouth .

[menace]

Originally Posted by Kimmykim

A vegetative state means that she'll be the last one to realize it.

Then you should be able to watch it with no problem.

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

No. "retards" as you call them are quite capeable of enjoying a certain quality of life. Someone in a vegetative state for 15 (or was it 16?) years has zero quality of life.

Huge difference.

Man i wish you really knew all the different levels of mental disablilities. I've taught children who where basically in the same state as Terry Szchiavo. I don't think anyone on this board would starve them to death.

[menace]

Originally Posted by Kevsh

As I've said before, like to see an audit of how much taxpayer money was spent over this entire ordeal.

I know the parents have to pay 20k everytime they file an apeal and over 25 apeals have been filed so far. I believe they have people donating money to them but i'm not sure. I do know they aren't getting it from the state of Florida.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by menace

You should shut the fuck up you don't know how many family members i've had in that same situation. Matter of fact you don't know me at all you dip shit. you just don't have the stomach to watch her die even though you think it's right. That makes you a little punk bitch in my book. If you think she should die so much and that she wanted it so much you should be able to watch her die over the next week and not be a Punk Bitch. You should be able to watch it and be happy for her right? Now you shut YOUR mouth .

Your point would have been better served had you left out the infantility.

The staff on the ward at her hospital, and her husband, will all have to watch her die. If death is in her best interest then that is what must be done.



And... I'll say again for those that missed it yesterday...... if you are the type of person that says "If that ever happens to me, let me die, kill me..."

The for pete's sake ADD THAT TO YOUR LIVING WILL. Don't leave it up to what you may have verbally told someone... write it down, have a will drawn up and make sure your wishes will be respected with no room for these right-to-life groups to stick their noses in your business.

[Raven]

I have watched it in hospices and hospitals and nursing homes and pediatric units.... I have also participated.....

No matter what the belief is and beliefs are personally held...and should be....it is hard to watch someone die, whether they are vegetative or awake and alert.

Taking out a feeding tube will starve her. Period. Starving can be painful, if she is still capable of feeling pain.

In and of itself, dying is generally not pain free, no matter how it occurs.

Dying is rarely pretty, whether it's court ordered or not.

When we think we are extending life, often we are merely preventing death.

Death is not always the enemy.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by menace

Man i wish you really knew all the different levels of mental disablilities.

Now.... you just went off your nut at someone else for saying something about you when they don't know you or your background, yet here you go doing the same thing to me.

I worked as a health care worker for 15 years. I know something about this subject.

According to the physician's report Terri is simply no longer there. There is no one to teach anything to. Furthermore, until you have actually spent time at her bedside you really aren't in any position to go second-guessing her doctors now are you?

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Your point would have been better served had you left out the infantility.

The staff on the ward at her hospital, and her husband, will all have to watch her die. If death is in her best interest then that is what must be done.



And... I'll say again for those that missed it yesterday...... if you are the type of person that says "If that ever happens to me, let me die, kill me..."

The for pete's sake ADD THAT TO YOUR LIVING WILL. Don't leave it up to what you may have verbally told someone... write it down, have a will drawn up and make sure your wishes will be respected with no room for these right-to-life groups to stick their noses in your business.

I think i made my point just fine. My point in that post was that was some punk shit to say.

I have no more points to make for Terry Szchiavo. She is going to starve to death and there isn't anything anyone can do for her now. I just think all these people who want her to die so much and doesn't think she stands a chance. Then they should be able to watch her die.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by menace

I think i made my point just fine.

No, you actually lost your composure there and ran your own mouth like a fifteen year old instead of just stating your point straight out and intelligently. But if you're happy with that form of counterattack have at it. All I said was that your point would have been better served by leaving out the childish insults.

Cheerz.

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Now.... you just went off your nut at someone else for saying something about you when they don't know you or your background, yet here you go doing the same thing to me.

I worked as a health care worker for 15 years. I know something about this subject.

According to the physician's report Terri is simply no longer there. There is no one to teach anything to. Furthermore, until you have actually spent time at her bedside you really aren't in any position to go second-guessing her doctors now are you?

Well i taught severly disabled children for a couple of years. When you worked as a health worker did you ever take care of anyone who ate through a tube? How bout someone who couldn't move, couldn't speak, and had severe damage to the cerebral cortex?

I taught children with all these symptoms.

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

No, you actually lost your composure there and ran your own mouth like a fifteen year old instead of just stating your point straight out and intelligently. But if you're happy with that form of counterattack have at it. All I said was that your point would have been better served by leaving out the childish insults.

Cheerz.

I put those childish insults in there on purpose. I know i went off. But thats how i felt. There is no reason to make and intelligent point in this case. No one is going to change thier mind. They believe what they believe and I believe what I believe. But when you tell me to not "run my mouth" then to me that warrants a response like the one I gave. I have to admit for me this is a emotional subject. But don't tell me to keep my mouth shut? WTF?

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by menace

Well i taught severly disabled children for a couple of years. When you worked as a health worker did you ever take care of anyone who ate through a tube? How bout someone who couldn't move, couldn't speak, and had severe damage to the cerebral cortex?

I taught children with all these symptoms.

Brother I worked on the neuro-science ward for two years, and three on the stroke & amputee ward, another four with long term geriatrics and several years each on CVT (open heart surgery), pychiatric in-patient facility, both intensive cares and even a stint at the end in the ER.

On neuro it was mostly all head injury cases and severe accident victims. I've looked after and cared for many many gorked out individuals with all levels of conciousness and cognizance. Over the years several of them were allowed to die too.

That answer your question?

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

Brother I worked on the neuro-science ward for two years, and three on the stroke & amputee ward, another four with long term geriatrics and several years each on CVT (open heart surgery), pychiatric in-patient facility, both intensive cares and even a stint at the end in the ER.

On neuro it was mostly all head injury cases and severe accident victims. I've looked after and cared for many many gorked out individuals with all levels of conciousness and cognizance. Over the years several of them were allowed to die too.

That answer your question?

Not really, Did any of them have to eat through a tube and where any of them starved to death ? Lets not forget she is not on "LIfe Support" as i expect alot of the patients you cared for where when they where allowed to die.

[menace]

It would be an interesting study to see how many patients breathing on thier own, Heart beating on it's own, But patient eating through a tube where put to death.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by menace

Not really, Did any of them have to eat through a tube and where any of them starved to death ? Lets not forget she is not on "LIfe Support" as i expect alot of the patients you cared for where when they where allowed to die.

I hate break it to you but a feeding tube is life support. Its supporting life.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by menace

Not really, Did any of them have to eat through a tube

I can tell you haven't worked on such wards. People with severe head injuries are often... as in OFTEN gorked out of their tree, so of course they are tubefeeds.

Trained staff at this woman's bedside are all unianimously saying that the best thing for her is to let her die. Until I see some further substantive proof otherwise I would not put myselt in a position to disagree.

It's a tough call, no one is saying it isn't. A decision has to be made and has been made. I say let this be a lesson to everyone, to put wording into a will so this sort of BS can't ever happen to you (and your family) in the future.

[CDSmith]

Originally Posted by tony404

I hate break it to you but a feeding tube is life support. Its supporting life.

Correct.

In some cases it is included in the list of "aggressive treatment", and when it is, it is discontinued and the patient is allowed to die. Rare, but it does happen, usually at the request of the spouse or close family.

But there are some instances where certain family members have been romanced by the notion of patients on tv shows who have "been asleep" for ten years and then have magically woken up one day and in perfect health.

From what I've seen and heard of this case though, that's simply not going to happen. Nevermind what the husband is saying, just read the comments that come directly from the woman's physicians in the news articles.

[Rochard]

My Grandmother recently passed away. She had the option of extending her life, but after many years of medications, treatments, and the quality of her life going down the tube she just decided to end the treatments, etc. She called her three daughters together and told them about her decision. The entire famliy watched during the past five years as the quality of her life declined - she lost all of her hair, had no energy and would physically start sleeping in the middle of a conversation, couldn't cook......

Although she'll be missed by the entire family, she's in a better place and her pain and suffereing are over.

[menace]

Originally Posted by tony404

I hate break it to you but a feeding tube is life support. Its supporting life.

I hate to break it to you . But a feeding tube is not life support. There are many children who have been eating through a tube since birth and none of them are considered to be " on life support". Life support is when your not breathing on your own or your hart cannot beat on it's own. Not a feeding tube. by your definition then you are on life support if you use a fork to eat. because your fork is supporting your life.

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I can tell you haven't worked on such wards. People with severe head injuries are often... as in OFTEN gorked out of their tree, so of course they are tubefeeds.

Trained staff at this woman's bedside are all unianimously saying that the best thing for her is to let her die. Until I see some further substantive proof otherwise I would not put myselt in a position to disagree.

It's a tough call, no one is saying it isn't. A decision has to be made and has been made. I say let this be a lesson to everyone, to put wording into a will so this sort of BS can't ever happen to you (and your family) in the future.

where any of them starved to death ?

[menace]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I can tell you haven't worked on such wards. People with severe head injuries are often... as in OFTEN gorked out of their tree, so of course they are tubefeeds.

Trained staff at this woman's bedside are all unianimously saying that the best thing for her is to let her die. Until I see some further substantive proof otherwise I would not put myselt in a position to disagree.

It's a tough call, no one is saying it isn't. A decision has to be made and has been made. I say let this be a lesson to everyone, to put wording into a will so this sort of BS can't ever happen to you (and your family) in the future.

And not all of the trained staff at her bedside think there is no hope for her. What about the RN who says she has swallowed jello on her own 3-4 times? and has been able to swallow water and juice? Why do they have armed guards to arrest anyone who tries to give her food or water? If she can eat on her own what gives anyone the right to starve her to death?

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by FunForOne

Its going to be a great photo-op when she dies on Easter Sunday and democrats are celebrating their victory.


"Lose the battle, Win the War"

Don't you have anything else to do then bash democrats ...




Oups, yes you do: lick george's ass ....

[Tipsy]

This reminds me of the creationist threads...if you stick your fingers in your ears and hum loudly enough then you must be right as the facts no longer exist.

It'd be amusing were the subject not so tragic.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by benc

So should all retards die. Surely nobody would want to live as a retard.

No,, because if that was so, you would be dead!

[menace]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/pr...TICLE_ID=43470

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/pr...TICLE_ID=43467

[Rich]

Originally Posted by FunForOne

Its going to be a great photo-op when she dies on Easter Sunday and democrats are celebrating their victory.


"Lose the battle, Win the War"

Wow there are a lot of democrats down there, something like 65-70% of people agree with the father. 80%+ think that the religious right should not make individual cases like this into political issues. Damn those republicans are out of the mainstream.

[Corona]

Originally Posted by menace

And not all of the trained staff at her bedside think there is no hope for her. What about the RN who says she has swallowed jello on her own 3-4 times? and has been able to swallow water and juice? Why do they have armed guards to arrest anyone who tries to give her food or water? If she can eat on her own what gives anyone the right to starve her to death?

Dude if you have a religous agenda thats fine but pull your head out of your ass.

The RN is full of shit and is not credible.

Florida judge George Greer, one of the main judges in the Schiavo matter, called Iyer's affidavit "incredible," elaborating as follows:

Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states that she would "call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway because I thought they should know about their daughter." ... It is impossible to believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges.

[SmokeyTheBear]

If anything i should hope this teaches people to let others know what you want done if this sort of thing should happen to you.

The one thing i def find foolish is the fact they would starve her to death to let her die.

If they know what they are doing will kill her , why not let her be euthanized in a humane fashion instead of starved to death slowly and painfully.

[Corona]

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

If they know what they are doing will kill her , why not let her be euthanized in a humane fashion instead of starved to death slowly and painfully.

It is slow but not painfull.

Removal of life support is allowed but it is not legal for anyone to be euthanized.

I think only the state of Oregon allows assisted suicide but that probably would not apply in cases like this since she in not able to participate.

[strats]

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by menace

where any of them starved to death ?

You cling tenaciously to the whole concept of her 'starving to death' (which is incorrect, btw... she'll die of dehydration long before she malnourishes). This makes me curious: why are you so fixated on the starvation aspect? Have you ever known a day without food, let alone a week, a month?

During the poorest period in my life, I lost 70+ pounds in the span of 2 or 3 months due to lack of food, bottoming out at around 160lbs @ 6'2". I'm intimately familiar with exactly what changes (physical, mental and emotional) are involved and can speak with authority on exactly how it 'feels' to be starving to death.

I'm no medical professional. I can't speak to the accuracy of the forecasts of the specialists, the courts, or anyone else involved. What I can say is this:

- Starving hurts. A Lot. However;

- Starving would hurt a fuckload less than the unmitigated torture of being imprisioned in your own skull with no way to communicate to the outside world.

A merciful world would let this poor woman die with dignity. A KIND and merciful world would help her along with the timely applications of drugs. Sadly, in this reality a bunch of self-inflated asshats would rather use her as a political pinata. "Oo oo, lets keep beating on the schaivo thing and see how much candy falls out!"

As for the starvation thing, here's a little empirical knowledge experiment for you to try. Go live in the dingy, mouldy basement of a small 2 bedroom house and eat one bowl of raisin bran a day for a few months. When you come out the other end of that we can discuss how it worked out for you.

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by Corona

It is slow but not painfull.

It is painful.

Sadly, it's the same 'right to life' crew that would deny a doctor-assisted suicide using far more humane methods (assuming she had any comprehension of it anyways).

[Kevsh]

Originally Posted by rickholio

can speak with authority on exactly how it 'feels' to be starving to death.

Can you speak with authority as to how it feels to be starved to death when half your brain is liquid, you are in a semi-conscious state and have lost the ability to manipulate your body in any way?

None of us - no one, in fact - knows for sure what she is going through. Right now, she may not even know. This debate is ridiculous because even the best experts in the field can't agree on how much - if anything - she feels.

Take solace in the fact that it will soon be over for her and everybody can get back to their lives. It's not pleasant but it happens every day in your country and almost never do they make the local news, never mind a week-long "Terri fest" on CNN -- not to mention the President himself getting involved.

I still don't know what the big deal is about her, but I do know it's been the most overhyped /overexposed story of the year - so far.

[rickholio]

Originally Posted by Kevsh

Can you speak with authority as to how it feels to be starved to death when half your brain is liquid, you are in a semi-conscious state and have lost the ability to manipulate your body in any way?

Of course not, and may the gods smile upon me and keep it that way.

Take solace in the fact that it will soon be over for her and everybody can get back to their lives. It's not pleasant but it happens every day in your country and almost never do they make the local news, never mind a week-long "Terri fest" on CNN -- not to mention the President himself getting involved.

I still don't know what the big deal is about her, but I do know it's been the most overhyped /overexposed story of the year - so far.

Some PR pinhead thought it'd be a good way to appear to pander to the religious extremists and ensure good results in the midterms, I suspect. Seems to have backfired spectacularly, with even conservative pundits on tv spanking em for putting their grubby paws all over states rights, not to mention the blatant attacks on personal liberties and established case law.