The Self-Defense Myth:

In 1997, for every time that a civilian used a handgun to kill in self-defense, 43 people lost their lives in handgun homicides. (FBI Supplementary Homicide Report data, 1997)

boooooooo

Why is it that a lot of the people who are so passionate about our gun control laws aren't even American? It's really none of your business. Shut the fuck up about it.

Yea people, shut the fuck up. Facts just confuse the average gun nut.

BTW, I'm American and I'll speak as loud as I want when I see rednecks fucking this country up.

You're American so you're entitled to your opinion. You obviously aren't who I was talking about. Not all gun owners are rednecks. I own numerous firearms. None of them are loaded and none of them have ever killed anything. I do target shooting. It's a hobby. Nothing more, nothing less.

You fail to see the forest for the trees Peaches.

We have an incredibly small number of handgun deaths a year (never over 50) and many of these can be attributed to the activities of the underworld and organised crime. In the same timespan shotgun deaths are down from 107 to 54, hunting rifle deaths from 231 to 76.

The point is that total firearm deaths have virtually halved since introducing gun control. I think this can be regarded as a success.

Unlike Beef and Lumber, firearms do make it across the border to Canada leading to 12 year old girls being shot in the face while riding the bus (she survived btw, Jane bus) as well as many murders.

As a result, out of touch politicians enact legislature that punishe those who do possess firearms (primarily farmers in Rural areas) and does nothing to stop the flow of firearms from the US.

I realize the 4 mounties that were killed last month actually would have fallen under the registry act had it still been in place. Would it have made a difference? Possibly?

Regardless, the registy was scrapped at the tune of just over $2 Billion due to the fact it is difficult to maintain a database of firearms that will never be used on other human beings.

Canada is (for the most part) not interested in joining the 'missle defence' program and as a result the lowlife ambassador and arrogant puppet called the 'president' have decided to ban beef and lumber in an attempt to UNDERMINE Canadian sovereignty.

Leading supplier of Conventional Weapons 1997 - 2001
1. United States 44,821 $USM 44.5% of total globally
2. Russia 17,354 $USM 17.2%
3. France 9,808 9.7
(http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/appx8a2002.pdf)

Leading supplier of arms to developing nations
US 74,928 $USM
UK 37,000
(http://www.fas.org/asmp/resources/go...rs-rl31529.pdf)

this isn't intended to hate on anyone or an entire land mass or nation.
these sites were originally cited in the essay Arms Trade by Mark Phythian

therefore, it is my business. :2 cents:

~r.

Okay, then I am free to involve myself in your marijuana laws (or lack thereof)?

Looks like you already do. Not you personally but your government.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...pot-usat_x.htm
http://www.medicalmarihuana.ca/meddling.html
http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/...rliament.shtml

Good point. The Marijuana laws were actually repealed due to, once again, the current administration involving itself in affairs strictly Canadian. (Re: Fucking with Canadian Soverignty) as a result, the decriminilization of Marijuana was repealled(sp?) months later by intimidated politicians.

I remember this distinctly as the irony caused me to throw up a little in my mouth

Also, marijuana kills far less people per year that firearms. I have no numbers to back this up, but I'm fairly confident this is true.

Nothing wrong with that. A good friend of mine is the same way, has probably 20 different weapons, goes target shooting a few times a month and its also a hobby for him. But I don't think he is your typical gun owner, he'll be the first to admit guns are way out of control in this country. The majority of gun owners I know or have known are fanatical, low IQ, mentally unstable rednecks with this 'nobody better fuck with me' attitude. These are the type of people who should not have guns as far as I'm concerned. If a persons world is so full of fear that their only security is a 44 Magnum under their pillow or in their glove box they would be spending their time much more wisely in a shrinks office rather than a target range.

There is not one documented death of anyone from marijuana.

I wonder what comparison of firearms deaths versus alcohol deaths would look like. I bet that Alcohol is a contributing factor in a large number of shooting deaths. Would be interesting to know.

Are you on the POT?
 

yeah,

we kinda run into semantics here, like drinking and driving, posting while drunk, driving stoned, etc....and the whole weed as a stepping stone to harder drugs. I thinks guns with anything don't mix, especially when the IMPAIR your judgement.

I've never really been in a position where I actually needed a gun (including a mugging a few years ago) so I can't really speak about the value of guns in the military/police/RCMP where they would be required to ensure survival.
:2 cents:

ummm.... last time i checked it was the assault weapons ban that lapsed, coincidently it has absolutely nothing to do with automatic weapons....

also uzis are just 9mm pistols, i could fuck someone up way worse with my 12 gauge

Yeah I agree, it's still interesting though. We trust that a gun owner will secure and store it safely. When it doesn't work, we advocate banning guns. However, we don't advocate banning cars after somebody gets drunk and runs over somebody. Just food for thought.

It's not an American issue, it's a human issue ... I hate to hear when an innocent child is killed so needlessly, regardless of where the child is from.

P.S. Your guns are being snuck into our country (Canada) so I think it does affect us up here, but that's beside the point.

But by locking up a gun, wouldn't one essentially be defeating a primary purose of owning one? or are they decorative hobbies built for the purpose of taking lives?

we don't take away the cars, but we do take away the drivers!

Also, cars serve many purposes man, guns serve one. (or a few if you're Homer Simpson)

Some law abiding citizens like guns. They like to own them, to shoot them at targets, to collect them and to hunt with them. They don't kill anybody with them and they don't let their children kill anybody with them either.

I myself am not a gun owner. I have no need for them personally, although I've been to the firing range a few times.

Yes you're right cars server another purpose. What about Alochol as I asked above? What useful purpose does it serve? I myself tend not to drink. I don't like drunk people around me, I find them annoying. People get drunk and crash cars, beat their wives and ruin families every single day. You're allowed to purchase booze because society trusts in you to do the right thing with it. Many people do not.

Unfortunately, it's the few neglectful, ammoral, absent-minded and criminals that ruin it for the law-abiding ones who respect their gun and use it accordingly.


I haven't read stories lately about a child killing another child with alcohol. You can't compare cars, alcohol, drugs, water and electricity, etc. with guns - it's unrelated and no basis for an argument.

Kind of like the kid who gets caught cheating on a test in school and pleads with the teacher that he shouldn't be punished because Sally was chewing gum in class (also a no-no) and didn't get punished, nor did little Darren who didn't do his homework. The teacher is going to say something like "Fine, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about you!"

(sorry, it's late and I'm tired... best I could come up with..) :winkwink:

Some law abiding citizens like heroin. They like to get all fucked up in the privacy of their own home on it but they don't hurt or kill anybody because of it.

By your logic shouldn't heroin be legal?

guns don't kill ppl, ppl do

thanks for your insight.

Naturally you can't compare them directly. It's just something that popped in to my mind as an interesting thought. I know more than one person who's life has been destoryed by alcohol.

I'm more thinking out loud than trying to justify anything.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for gun control. It should be difficult to buy a gun. Their should be a registry of all gun owners and which guns they own. You should have a "cool down" period, and you don't need AK47's in your house. I'm with you on common sense controls. I'm just not with anybody on absolute elimination.

We have pretty strict gun controls here in Canada, as do we on say drinking and driving. I'm just saying that from a safety stand point, my life would be better served with the absolute elimination of alcohol rather than guns.

Good points about guns....but is it 'just' a hobbie? or a type of 'fix' - confidence that you possess the ability to kill almost anything with it. Democracy means people have the freedom to collect whatever they like, like butterflies, so I have to agree with you on that point. But why not give stamps, comics, Fabrigé eggs, statues, etc... a chance?

in terms of booze, I kinda see it the same as weed, and one or two other drugs - there is a time and a place. At work - driving - handling a firearm -
overindulgence in anything will usually mess things up. and booze is a drug.
so how do people go about behaving responsibly and not labeling themselves with a disorder to justify their actions? (Addictive personality) People have the strength to dictate their own actions, if they choose to drink irresponsibly? I don't know....and booze does fuck things up, as does weed, crack, and heroine...time and a place. People have to decide. One of those 'downsides of freeddom' Carl Rove is always citing.....
I don't think I'm different from anyone else and I've had my fair share of...'indulgences' and I still choose to not indulge based on the situation. :2 cents:

Guns don't kill people.....Rappers do

Like they've done with cigarettes?
(I basically quit - and it's great - I can taste food!) - but - they've demonized smoking in the public with such voracity it is being percieved like tattoos 20 years ago. I like my vices.....they're mine.

I hear you. I myself am a smoker too. I wouldn't ever light a cigarette in a non smoker's house, or even ask if that would be alright. I do think any given establishment should be able to choose if they want smoking in their premises or not.

Seven more reasons for Stricter Gun Control

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...International/

http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...7/223955.shtml

free people need guns? Cavemen need clubs?

and newsmax isn't a reputable new source...in fact it is purely drivel and tripe. avoid that propoganda

Oh, I can find more references if you want. They were going by the statistics.

Here's another one from person experience - I live in a town where I can guarantee you gun ownership is somewhere around 99%. I've been here 4 years and we've not had a single armed robbery, gun death, gun injury, etc.

Guns are not the problem.

thats wicked that no one has ben hurt! excellent in fact. and you're right, guns are not the problem, like drunk drivers PEOPLE are the problem. guns don't shoot judges and churchgoers, maniacs do. Easy access to firearms is the concern.

also - I'd think knowing that there were no firearms would actually make me free from being shot. having firearms WOULD restrict FREEDOM as you'd have to worry about being shot. not to say stabbing can't be fatal, but we're talking about Gun control.

'splain to me how you plan on getting rid of guns in the US? The only people turning them in would be law abiding citizens which would leave the criminals with them....and the law abiders with no way to protect themselves.

The US attempting to get rid of guns would be a criminal's wet dream.

If guns were controlled from day 1, we'd be British. :) (no flamers, please; just lightening things up a bit...)

Stop it, you're making too much sense. The board senso-meter can't handle the load.

WARNING! WARNING!!


To the topic--

I was about to say something similar as Peaches actually. Since criminals don't abide by laws there is no reason to believe they would abide by any law banning weapons. Anyone who believes the crooks will happly queue up to turn in their weapons has his or her head up his or her ass. Such a law would only disarm the law-abiding section of society leaving them at the mercy of how fast (or slow) the cops can get to them.

There are better ways of spending the millions that it takes to enforce such laws. More education, more mandatory gun safety & training courses, stricter penalties for those commiting gun safety infractions, more funding into the gun registry program etc etc.

A country with a small and basically friendly population like Australia can certainly have some success by disarming their citizens I suppose, but the US is a different sort of entity with a different history and culture. Since Canada is on it's border we get a fair amount of US culture influencing us, so a different line of attack on the problem is called for.

I always say, one of you people advocating for a ban on guns would change your tune pretty quick if a couple of armed assholes in ski masks broke into your home one night, tied you up and proceeded to rape your wife and daughter and steal you blind. You'd be sitting there praying that you had of kept a gun in the house.

Personally I don't own a gun. But I like to think that if I ever felt the need to get one, I could. Legally. I like the fact that I have a right to bear arms, because the bottom line is.... the crooks don't give one ripe crap about your gun laws. Not one. I'm sure they're overjoyed at the thought of a completely disarmed society. Are you?

you children from other countries can ban guns all you want.
Here in America, we do things differently.
We aren't frightened of things that capture headlines, we put them into perspective.
lets just leave it at this, we don't have any interest in living in your dopey countries under your dopey rules and you have no interest in living in ours.

Once again you have shown your "ignorance"...as your post is misinformation.

I don't think guns should be outlawed, I just think there should be very serious regulations that are strictly enforced. I.E. your son kills another kid with your gun that wasn't properly stored and locked, you go to jail as if you shot the kid yourself.

The government should not be allowed to tell law abiding citizens that they can't own weapons to defend themselves. Registration is one thing, and after you commit a violent crime they should have a better system to make sure you can never buy a gun again, but good people should be allowed to keep them.

I don't know about those 50 caliber rifles they sell in the US, but that's a whole other conversation.

If they do outlaw guns, they should not be able to allow cops to continue carrying them.

"STOP...or I'll say 'stop' again!!!"