I'm not questioning the power of Flash to make some killer stuff.... I know it can. But what I was getting at is that I don't believe that a typical porn surfer is all too interested in watching some intro fly around for 5 minutes so he can go... "Oh cool...."

They wanna see what you got... reasonably quick... click their way through the tour, and either pull out the cc or not... and move on.

I know personally, every time I see a Flash intro loading... the first thing I do is look for the Skip Intro link. Cuz I just don't have the time. Regardless of how nice it may or may not be.

Now apply that to a guy with a hard on in his hand.... no way he's gonna sit down and take the time to watch the fruits of your Flash prowess. Unless maybe you got someone getting fucked in the pooper, right there on the front page for him to watch.

RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!! lol 'bout time i met more flashers with this attitude http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

oh, I understand, I personally don't dig flash intros no matter how cool they are. IM talking about a full paysite in flash.
I,ll probably work on that one of these days and let you be the judge http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

I think Flash kicks ass. Macromedia really outdid themselves when they created it. It's got some serious power. But it seems to me that Flash guys get lost somewhere in the learning process, because it does take a long time to learn to do it well, and it seems that alot of guys come out the other side trying to make the biggest impact with a "Look how fucking awesome this Flash it!"

And it is awesome. But it shouldn't be the main focus of it. Unless you're doing a Flash tutorial or something.

Flash should integrate seamlessly with the site. It should be a tool. Much like Javascript, or other coding languages are used. You don't make a site for selling porn that has it's primary focus on how cool the javascript is that you used.... why would you do it with Flash? It's not about the Flash... it's about the porn. Or whatever you happen to be selling.

I think this is where alot of guys go wrong. It took a long time to learn to use the tool.... and they want everyone to know how good they are.... which is fine.... if you're selling your Flash skills and not something else with it.

This is why, when I was talking about the menus up there.... for most applications, the end user should never even realize he's looking at a piece of Flash. It should be seamless to the site.

But..... what the fuck do I know anyway... http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

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i do have to say though... ONE positive thing about doing a full paysite in flash would be the easy on the fly user-tracking.. making it easier to give somone more of what they want, or at the very least subtley gearing it towards their unconscious tastes in colours and content, like if they have a tendency to click on blue coloured links about lesbians then hey presto.. your site takes on more shades of blue and throws up more lesbian pics in the periphery/structure design.. nothing you can't do with anything else.. it's just easier to tone links/text and whatnot on the fly in flash.. and have a simple selection of loadmovies that are triggered by preferences.. hell you could even track the movements of their mouses to see what they might have been interested in but didn't click on..... http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

amp i 100% agree with you.. my personal push with flash at the moment is smart use and seamless integration..... heheh hell i've even read that fuckwit jacob's stuff about human interaction and response times to try and get away from heavy flash garbage (well, when it's not warranted)

Well, I don't know if any of that helped you Redshoe... we kinda got to rambling a little bit down here... but I think a company site would work very well in Flash. Just don't go overboard with it. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

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Thanks AMP and all, y'all.

Like I said I did some navbar stuff on the site already but I suck at flash, and I've never really been happy with the site to begin with. Maybe it's because I really wanted to much more colorful with it.

Kevin, (my boss) wanted it simple. The site gets a fair share of compliments so I can't complain.
http://KevinYagher.com
Our company site. KittyKat69 really seemed to dig it. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

His book, just came out and he wants a single page ad. Which I told him I could do, but now I think he wants that ad page to be all flash, which doesn't make sense. We're not even selling the book. He wants me to link the ad to amazon.com (I think I'll use my own ref code, not his. LOL )

Now that he's seen more flash, I think he's going to want his whole site flash.

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BoneProne Family Member

hey it's not too bad http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif, one thing i might suggest though is increasing the hit area on the nav items - there are large horizontal areas between items that aren't hotspots.. what this means is that on say, 'filmography', when you try to go diagonally to 'FX Resume' you hit one of these areas and flash considers it a roll-off telling your subnav to go to it's finishing sequence.. increase the hit areas to fill these areas more - the user should be able to go from selected element to desired element in the shortest possible distance (ie diagonally on the larger subnavs).. a good example of bad implementation of this is the avnonline left hand navs.. even though it's not in flash you can see what i mean..

also i'd take a look at the dimensions of your layout.. unless specifically targetted, most designs should be for a 800x600 res.. which of course translates into a design of 770 x 430-470 depending on browser - AOL needs 430 but i tend to go alittle higher into the 470 end.. the width of you site is 783 and even though nothing important is being obscured at 770 - 50% or so of the users will be getting horizontal scrollbars at 782 pixels wide which can probably be fixed with your table settings.. also the initial text in the main area won't be easily read for that same 50% of people as the bottom line will most likely be cut off.. these are small things but when you think about the fact that the average user is going to have to scroll down to see the images and then scroll back up again to the nav to get more you can see there is a little issue with user satisfaction.. but then again.. if they're too stupid to put their res at 1024x768 as most monitors are capable of they kinda get what they deserve.... you'll notice all paysite front and tours fit the above specifications because every single user is important..



[This message has been edited by bhutocracy (edited 12-08-2001).]

bhutocracy, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now you know why I don't like the site.

My boss is reeeeeeeealy weird when it comes to computers. He knows fuck all about his piece of shit crapintosh, and even less about the internet.

He made me build the site based on how it looked on his computer! And that opening text? WTF is up with that? It's just big bold ugly red text! I wanted a really cool logo or collage there. He didn't want that.

I explained to him all about settings, and all that. But he didn't seem to give 2 shits about what I had to say about it.

So now that he wants flash he's listening to my good friend that also doesn't know how to design sites. And I'll be the one learning flash.

I think for what he wants it would be better in regular html.

Oh well, I get paid by the hour. LOL





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BoneProne Family Member

If they are paying you by the hour to learn flash go for it!.. you'll be rich soon http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

there are so many things, I have not meet someone who said he knows everything about flash. Hell not even macromedia knows everything about flash im sure.

LOL... as long as you're getting paid http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif i've had to do shite too - every designer does - but it puts food on the table so i guess we can't whinge too hard http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif - if you need a hand with your flash give us a bell.. i've lectured flash at colleges for the better part of two years.. as long as it's not a 5 hour bug fix im always glad to help out http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

hehe besides he uses a mac http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif lol.. *takes shelter from the much larger design population that does indeed use macintoshes*

LOL yeah because as soon as you master it they bring a fucking new version out and change the scripting language! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif - it's a lot harder to be a flashmaster these days than it was a few years ago.. especially if you do corporate stuff that doesn't really give you the scope to learn on the job - ie it's sunday afternoon and im doing glorified banner ads for my realworld paymasters.. bastards! saviour this time to learn - and try to push for interesting things to do that expand your knowledge - you won't often get the chance..

no way man, look at www.isprime.com 100% database driven flash corporate e-commerce site. now you don't see that everyday. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

I want flash 6!

Well, that's just good advice no matter what you do. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif



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BoneProne Family Member

hahah yeah thats fucking sweet! - but how many shitty sites do you have to do before you hit on a gem of a job like that? thats why you don't see it everyday! - i might get a nice job like that twice a year! who did that??

it also depends on the marketing dept. and how pliant your client is to your various suggestions.. i can tell you right now that full flash esp. with DB interaction sites just really aren't selling here in OZ at the moment - there just isn't the money.. well they might sell if they were cheaper - i'd like to know how much was charged for that site..

yeah f6 should be sweet! im on the early release program so i should get a copy in the next week or two - i've missed out on the beta program TWO years in a row now.. i know some of the guys at macromedia here - i've just always been a tad slow in registering for the beta.. so then i have to ring em up and hassle Brian, their sales guy in the asia-pacific..

I designed isprime.com, and you are right you do struggle and create lots of crappy sites before you get to this level in flash, but you've got to start somewhere don't you?

hehe nice job mate... mmm gotta love those 24+ fps anims.. clean and fast.. me likey! -but im not even talking learning - i don't know about you, but i think our sales people are having difficulties selling flash solutions even at the 'level' im at, i still only really get to work on maybe 2 really interesting flash jobs a year like http://www.toyota.com.au/echo/flash/index.asp the flash for which i did about a year ago - that has some semblance of server interaction (check out the postcard section - that was fun, being able to let users create their own animations - even though there are only a > b type and send them as postcards) and that was in f4.. if it wasn't for the 3dsmax shite i've been doing it would have been a very unfulfilling year let me tell you...

umm what company you work for? this looks like work from vir2l.com , don't tell me you work there.

and yes that site was designed without the lowest end user in mind.... hell.. once you've customized your echo you can download it as a desktop 'buddy', in the same colour and all as you specified..

tell me about it.. it's a bit of an embarrassment, the designer was a little too 'inspired' by them.. (and he's pretty good usually) we told him to change it a little but in the end we were running way out of time and just had to go with it.. i work for spike.. we had a brief foray into LA about a year and a half ago as an agency and as the ill-fated 'spike radio'

ooh.. better clear this up vir2l are good i like them - thats not why it's embarrassing - it's embarrassing because i think he crossed the line from inspiration to imitation..

umm a little bit, I kinda of tired so im not going to post urls. when I saw the site I felt something familiar going on... if the client is happy who cares! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

that was pretty much my feeling on the situation! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif i was more interested in doing the interactive flash anyway than worrying too much about the designer - to be really honest, it was a fun site to flash, if he had to tone it down or do one of those last minute design-by-commitee changes it probably would have been less exciting to work on.. anyway heres where i have broken copyright laws lol :
http://www.flashturbation.org/flayboy/wizzball.html