I've come to this conclusion...what do you think? - GoFuckYourself.com

Unriz3n · 11-11-2001, 11:12 PM

Every sponsor cheat/steals from its users be it big or small. I have yet to work with any sponsor in which substantial evidence was brought to light and pushed down quickly. What do you guys think? As for me...I can't help but think that every sponsor cheats its users in some way. Probably one of the best kept secrets on the net.

Gary · 11-11-2001, 11:14 PM

wow, you've done it, you've uncovered the secret. Expect to be dead by dawn.

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Unriz3n · 11-11-2001, 11:17 PM

actually i'm quite serious...theres so many ways to cheat the system, why not? Nearly impossible to be caught unless you are simply stupid.

Gary · 11-11-2001, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
actually i'm quite serious...theres so many ways to cheat the system, why not? Nearly impossible to be caught unless you are simply stupid.

Seriously, when i'm in the admin section for pillexperts.com per click program, i can see each webmaster, traffic sent, referals and other neat stuff, but i have not figured out how to cheat webmasters. I cant even edit the number of clicks in their account.

And my partnership program xxxpaycheck.com is run through ccbill, and those bastards dont give me the option to shave signups, so it sucks to be me.

Think about this, what benefit to webmaster programs get from cheating honest webmaster? If someone checks their stats, sees 400 clicks, i go in, knock a hundred off, they go back in and notice it, do i benefit? Or do i loose a good webmaster?

Barry Porn · 11-11-2001, 11:39 PM

You in particular benefit. All small outfits benefit from cheating, because they are in it for a quick buck, not long-term business relationships with Webmasters.

I could be wrong, what do I know?

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
Seriously, when i'm in the admin section for pillexperts.com per click program, i can see each webmaster, traffic sent, referals and other neat stuff, but i have not figured out how to cheat webmasters. I cant even edit the number of clicks in their account.

And my partnership program xxxpaycheck.com is run through ccbill, and those bastards dont give me the option to shave signups, so it sucks to be me.

Think about this, what benefit to webmaster programs get from cheating honest webmaster? If someone checks their stats, sees 400 clicks, i go in, knock a hundred off, they go back in and notice it, do i benefit? Or do i loose a good webmaster?

Unriz3n · 11-11-2001, 11:41 PM

Well i've seen it first hand...I've seen some of my sponsors take signups away (lord knows why). My best converting sponsor had me credited with 4 sales and i went the next day to check sales and it had me with 3.

Unriz3n · 11-11-2001, 11:42 PM

also this mainly would have to deal with sponsors who use in house proccessing. or sponsors who don't allow you to view your records through their proccessor.

Gary · 11-11-2001, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
Well i've seen it first hand...I've seen some of my sponsors take signups away (lord knows why). My best converting sponsor had me credited with 4 sales and i went the next day to check sales and it had me with 3.

Well, its certainly possible with custom built software to have it do anything. But a signup dissapearing could also be a glitch on either end. Maybe it screwed up and credited you with a signup. Then took it away.

For 98.194% of sponsors though, it provides no benefit to cheat you. Now if its some fly-by-night sponsor, i suppose anything is possible.

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XXXforU · 11-12-2001, 01:29 AM

Gary hit the nail on the head... you're talking about 3 possibly 4 sign-ups, I doubt any good sponsors would even be that daring.

Gay .05 a click, any ratios?

the indigo · 11-12-2001, 03:23 AM

Join a partnership, they don't have to shave, so they dont. Join any pps with internal stats (no direct stats from ibill/ccbill) and they shave from professional script configured to do so.

pay per signups are like pay per clicks. It's the same fucking thing. They all shave.

funkmaster · 11-12-2001, 06:27 AM

... I had a refsharer deal with a guy once, out of a sudden he resetted my refshare percentage to ZERO. so this is not safe either. also when having access to ibill stats directly doesn´t mean you are not getting shaved, it very easy for any sponsor to just drop your refshare ID and all signups will get into their masteraccount. the only sponsor that can not shave, is the sponsor that makes it´s payout through ccbill directly. if the sponsor uses ccbill, the first click alwas goes through ccbill´s system and this way it can not be altered by the sponsor itself ...

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Gary · 11-12-2001, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XXXforU:
Gary hit the nail on the head... you're talking about 3 possibly 4 sign-ups, I doubt any good sponsors would even be that daring.

Gay .05 a click, any ratios?

No ratios. Ratios are for Commies and Afghans.

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12clicks · 11-12-2001, 07:44 AM

Urine, please give us proof of ANY reputable sponsor cheating.
If not, this thread is just a bunch of bullshit.

Unriz3n · 11-12-2001, 07:49 AM

Is there ever any REAL proof...even if there is can't they simply say "well there was a system glich...we are on it". Look at ARS right now for example...tour's leading to different accounts? Not blaming ARS for that but who knows what other kinda shit goes on.

J4F is under a little heat right now also: http://www.wegcash.com/members/board/messages.html?board=13&thread=158&offset=0&SID=3ec 769f19dcc950b8f6c8d89713bf554&cd=36xvxz2BDFLNTV26a cik

btw..dont be an asshole 12clicks...this is a webmaster DISCUSSION board..im here to discuss..dont like it then fuckoff and dont reply to my posts.

[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

Conspiracy Guy · 11-12-2001, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
Is there ever any REAL proof... who knows what other kinda shit goes on.

My thoughts exactly.

funkmaster · 11-12-2001, 08:00 AM

... there will never been real proof unless someone takes the cheating sponsor to court and wins ... and this never happened until today ...

------------------
Don't innovate - imitate!
... giving away mass traffic for free !!

12clicks · 11-12-2001, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
Is there ever any REAL proof...[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

exactly, just another joker with no knowledge and too much time on his hands.

Unriz3n · 11-12-2001, 08:07 AM

12clicks, you have no idea what/where/or how much traffic i send and to whom. How can you even begin to say I don't know what I'm talking about? To be honest I imagine that nearly every webmaster wonders this about his/her sponsors daily.

like i said before..dont like my posts dont read or reply to them. Leave the space for webmasters who would like to discuss. Thanks.

NickB. · 11-12-2001, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
Every sponsor cheat/steals from its users be it big or small. I have yet to work with any sponsor in which substantial evidence was brought to light and pushed down quickly. What do you guys think? As for me...I can't help but think that every sponsor cheats its users in some way. Probably one of the best kept secrets on the net.

Let me challenge you!
icq: 122879984

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Nick Baauw

www.payserve.com
icq: 122879984
[email protected]

12clicks · 11-12-2001, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
12clicks, you have no idea what/where/or how much traffic i send and to whom. How can you even begin to say I don't know what I'm talking about? To be honest I imagine that nearly every webmaster wonders this about his/her sponsors daily.

like i said before..dont like my posts dont read or reply to them. Leave the space for webmasters who would like to discuss. Thanks.

Urine, if you were anyone, I'd know it.
I'm sure MANY webmasters "wonder" about it, mostly because they have no better understanding of traffic than you do. Coming here with your unfounded "conclusions" does nothing to help them.

As far as liking your posts, I do like them. guys like you are always good for a laugh.

Unriz3n · 11-12-2001, 08:21 AM

First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...i made a very general statement. Second...I try not to associate with assholes so you wouldnt know me regardless. Now back with the discussion.

Help them? Even when i was new to this a year ago, only help i ever recieved was from a small amount of webmasters which I can count on one hand. Any post I made on this board back then was filled with replies from people much like yourself and much like the ones your are giving now. How much help is that?

[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

quiet · 11-12-2001, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...i made a very general statement. Second...I try not to associate with assholes so you wouldnt know me regardless. Now back with the discussion.

Conspiracy Guy · 11-12-2001, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...i made a very general statement.

Blanket blame has always been my personal favorite too.

12clicks · 11-12-2001, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...i made a very general statement. Second...I try not to associate with assholes so you wouldnt know me regardless. Now back with the discussion.

Help them? Even when i was new to this a year ago, only help i ever recieved was from a small amount of webmasters which I can count on one hand. Any post I made on this board back then was filled with replies from people much like yourself and much like the ones your are giving now. How much help is that?

[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

A general statement you can't back up. (in most circles, that's called lying)
No wonder you got so little help when you started out.

Oh, and there are 2 groups of people here. Those who have called me an asshole and those who haven't. I'd say you are typical of the group you belong to.

Unriz3n · 11-12-2001, 08:35 AM

Actually I have seen signups dropped first hand from a few sponsors. And the reason i didnt get much help when I first started out was becuase there are too many "12clicks" here...this board is not a newbie friendly zone and i feel bad for the ones who try and seek refuge here.

I'm simply not going to get into a pissing contest with you...I have much better things to do with my time. I would simply like to continue the discussion I started.

So to everyone interested in some discussion:
Sponsors...even respectable ones...do they cheat? what are your thoughts/opinions?

Barry Porn · 11-12-2001, 08:39 AM

This thread gave me bad gas.

Gary · 11-12-2001, 08:45 AM

12clicks gave me a hand job to welcome me into the business.

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12clicks · 11-12-2001, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
Actually I have seen signups dropped first hand from a few sponsors.

well sonny, if you've seen signups drop from a few sponsors, I'd blame the traffic not the sponsors. But of course, its easier to blame someone else for failure.

Dualcpu · 11-12-2001, 09:07 AM

Hello Unriz3n,

You wrote in the subject line that you came to the conclusion that sponsors shave.
However, you have not provided any sort of "proof" that this statement is correct and so all we can do is ask for the proof.

codecrawler · 11-12-2001, 09:17 AM

Just something to consider besides biting eachother's head off

A missing sign up may very well be a chargeback from the surfer.

Quite a common thing and I'm suprised nobody mentioned it yet.

CC

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Wizzo · 11-12-2001, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Unriz3n:
First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...

No, you claimed that ALL sponsors are cheating. I will be the 1st one to say no sponsors system is 100%, but to say we are intentionally doing things to rip you off, is quite different and VERY far from the truth!

A good example is with AP and Cashtour, we track sign-ups independantly of Ibill, so that if a sign-up is not recorded by Ibill, we can make good on it. That's not for our benefit, it so that we can make the best effort to pay the webmasters that support our programs.

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Lev · 11-12-2001, 01:22 PM

For the sponsor to cheat it's webmaster, it's just not worth it for him and the sponsors that do this are just not smart. Ok you take away a couple of sign ups from the webmaster, then you gonna lose him, who can bring you a lot of sign ups in the near future. So a smart sponsor will never do that, also the sponsor program will screw up it's name by doing this.

Lev,

15% Webmaster Referral + 65% Recurring

Professional Money The Fast Way.
http://www.ProfessionalCash.com

magnatique · 11-12-2001, 01:30 PM

wizzo, I've seen the opposite happen too... sponsor tracking wrong, and ibill saving the day

when you use a third party processing, it's always almost 100% fool proof... unless BOTH the sponsor and say IBILL decides to shave AT THE SAME TIME... which is really doubtful hehe

Where you don't know is when all is done sponsorside like ars or CEN or CE... I think these do their own cc processing, at least they don't use any of the big third party..

then, you don't know for sure, but you gotta say if they do, they don't do it too much since they've been here forever now ... they must do something right!

ElvisManson · 11-12-2001, 01:33 PM

Unriz3n,

Hardly a week goes by that I don't get an ICQ, e-mail or Phone call and get accused of shaving someones sign ups.

The typical accusation is "I had "X" sign ups 2 days ago and yesterday I had "Y" ( this number being signifigantly lower than "X") on the same amount of traffic"

To which I reply " of course we are shaving your stupid ass" J/K

Any industry that is based on making "X" or "Y" number of sales every day is going to have fluctuations.

The amount of variables that are involved in processing a Credit Card transaction for a surfer are huge.

To have anyone come here and make a blanket accusation that ALL sponsors shave their WM's is irresponsible and just plain Stupid.

If you are trying to alienate yourself from sponsors that come to this board you are doing a hell of a good job of it.

Try coming to a conclusion that doesn't involve sweeping generalizations.

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Theo · 11-12-2001, 02:23 PM

there are plenty sponsors using ccbill,ibill and other 3rd part billing co. that you can use and avoid any shaving possibility. I don't think a webmaster is tied with big sponsors to make profit. Adult.com, Lightspeedcash etc use 3rd part billing co. and i personally know webmasters making tons of signups every month. When I started in adult industry I first joined maximumcash for the reputation it has. Through time i wasn't satisfied with maximumcash and stopped using them. What I did next? I joined almost every available sponsor except the ones with bad rumour of not paying. You have to test all of them and share your traffic to see what works for you better, that converts better etc.

Unriz3n · 11-12-2001, 08:48 PM

I was a bit heated up when i started this thread, my apologies since I do use some sponsors that always seem to save my ass come BW bill time. Its just there are some out there that simply seem fishy to me....back to work I go.

[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-11-2001, 11:12 PM	#1
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	I've come to this conclusion...what do you think? Every sponsor cheat/steals from its users be it big or small. I have yet to work with any sponsor in which substantial evidence was brought to light and pushed down quickly. What do you guys think? As for me...I can't help but think that every sponsor cheats its users in some way. Probably one of the best kept secrets on the net.

11-11-2001, 11:14 PM	#2
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	wow, you've done it, you've uncovered the secret. Expect to be dead by dawn. ------------------ 5 cent Text Links. MAKE SERIOUS CASH Signup for 5 cent clicks

11-11-2001, 11:17 PM	#3
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	actually i'm quite serious...theres so many ways to cheat the system, why not? Nearly impossible to be caught unless you are simply stupid.

11-11-2001, 11:41 PM	#6
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	Well i've seen it first hand...I've seen some of my sponsors take signups away (lord knows why). My best converting sponsor had me credited with 4 sales and i went the next day to check sales and it had me with 3.

11-11-2001, 11:42 PM	#7
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	also this mainly would have to deal with sponsors who use in house proccessing. or sponsors who don't allow you to view your records through their proccessor.

11-12-2001, 01:29 AM	#9
XXXforU Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Lick my Ballz Posts: 151	Gary hit the nail on the head... you're talking about 3 possibly 4 sign-ups, I doubt any good sponsors would even be that daring. Gay .05 a click, any ratios?

11-12-2001, 03:23 AM	#10
the indigo Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: North America Posts: 2,016	Join a partnership, they don't have to shave, so they dont. Join any pps with internal stats (no direct stats from ibill/ccbill) and they shave from professional script configured to do so. pay per signups are like pay per clicks. It's the same fucking thing. They all shave.

11-12-2001, 06:27 AM	#11
funkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: shell beach Posts: 7,938	... I had a refsharer deal with a guy once, out of a sudden he resetted my refshare percentage to ZERO. so this is not safe either. also when having access to ibill stats directly doesn´t mean you are not getting shaved, it very easy for any sponsor to just drop your refshare ID and all signups will get into their masteraccount. the only sponsor that can not shave, is the sponsor that makes it´s payout through ccbill directly. if the sponsor uses ccbill, the first click alwas goes through ccbill´s system and this way it can not be altered by the sponsor itself ... ------------------ Don't innovate - imitate! ... giving away mass traffic for free !!

11-12-2001, 07:44 AM	#13
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,789	Urine, please give us proof of ANY reputable sponsor cheating. If not, this thread is just a bunch of bullshit.

11-12-2001, 07:49 AM	#14
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	Is there ever any REAL proof...even if there is can't they simply say "well there was a system glich...we are on it". Look at ARS right now for example...tour's leading to different accounts? Not blaming ARS for that but who knows what other kinda shit goes on. J4F is under a little heat right now also: http://www.wegcash.com/members/board/messages.html?board=13&thread=158&offset=0&SID=3ec 769f19dcc950b8f6c8d89713bf554&cd=36xvxz2BDFLNTV26a cik btw..dont be an asshole 12clicks...this is a webmaster DISCUSSION board..im here to discuss..dont like it then fuckoff and dont reply to my posts. [This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-12-2001, 08:00 AM	#16
funkmaster So Fucking Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: shell beach Posts: 7,938	... there will never been real proof unless someone takes the cheating sponsor to court and wins ... and this never happened until today ... ------------------ Don't innovate - imitate! ... giving away mass traffic for free !!

11-12-2001, 08:07 AM	#18
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	12clicks, you have no idea what/where/or how much traffic i send and to whom. How can you even begin to say I don't know what I'm talking about? To be honest I imagine that nearly every webmaster wonders this about his/her sponsors daily. like i said before..dont like my posts dont read or reply to them. Leave the space for webmasters who would like to discuss. Thanks.

11-12-2001, 08:21 AM	#21
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	First off.....I didnt claim any particular sponsor was/is cheating...i made a very general statement. Second...I try not to associate with assholes so you wouldnt know me regardless. Now back with the discussion. Help them? Even when i was new to this a year ago, only help i ever recieved was from a small amount of webmasters which I can count on one hand. Any post I made on this board back then was filled with replies from people much like yourself and much like the ones your are giving now. How much help is that? [This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]

11-12-2001, 08:35 AM	#25
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	Actually I have seen signups dropped first hand from a few sponsors. And the reason i didnt get much help when I first started out was becuase there are too many "12clicks" here...this board is not a newbie friendly zone and i feel bad for the ones who try and seek refuge here. I'm simply not going to get into a pissing contest with you...I have much better things to do with my time. I would simply like to continue the discussion I started. So to everyone interested in some discussion: Sponsors...even respectable ones...do they cheat? what are your thoughts/opinions?

11-12-2001, 08:39 AM	#26
Barry Porn Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 257	This thread gave me bad gas.

11-12-2001, 08:45 AM	#27
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	12clicks gave me a hand job to welcome me into the business. ------------------ 5 cent Text Links. MAKE SERIOUS CASH Signup for 5 cent clicks

11-12-2001, 09:07 AM	#29
Dualcpu Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 488	Hello Unriz3n, You wrote in the subject line that you came to the conclusion that sponsors shave. However, you have not provided any sort of "proof" that this statement is correct and so all we can do is ask for the proof.

11-12-2001, 09:17 AM	#30
codecrawler Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: wolfshade's basement Posts: 297	Just something to consider besides biting eachother's head off A missing sign up may very well be a chargeback from the surfer. Quite a common thing and I'm suprised nobody mentioned it yet. CC ------------------

11-12-2001, 01:22 PM	#32
Lev Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,545	For the sponsor to cheat it's webmaster, it's just not worth it for him and the sponsors that do this are just not smart. Ok you take away a couple of sign ups from the webmaster, then you gonna lose him, who can bring you a lot of sign ups in the near future. So a smart sponsor will never do that, also the sponsor program will screw up it's name by doing this. Lev, 15% Webmaster Referral + 65% Recurring Professional Money The Fast Way. http://www.ProfessionalCash.com

11-12-2001, 01:30 PM	#33
magnatique Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,830	wizzo, I've seen the opposite happen too... sponsor tracking wrong, and ibill saving the day when you use a third party processing, it's always almost 100% fool proof... unless BOTH the sponsor and say IBILL decides to shave AT THE SAME TIME... which is really doubtful hehe Where you don't know is when all is done sponsorside like ars or CEN or CE... I think these do their own cc processing, at least they don't use any of the big third party.. then, you don't know for sure, but you gotta say if they do, they don't do it too much since they've been here forever now ... they must do something right!

11-12-2001, 01:33 PM	#34
ElvisManson Looking California Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,476	Unriz3n, Hardly a week goes by that I don't get an ICQ, e-mail or Phone call and get accused of shaving someones sign ups. The typical accusation is "I had "X" sign ups 2 days ago and yesterday I had "Y" ( this number being signifigantly lower than "X") on the same amount of traffic" To which I reply " of course we are shaving your stupid ass" J/K Any industry that is based on making "X" or "Y" number of sales every day is going to have fluctuations. The amount of variables that are involved in processing a Credit Card transaction for a surfer are huge. To have anyone come here and make a blanket accusation that ALL sponsors shave their WM's is irresponsible and just plain Stupid. If you are trying to alienate yourself from sponsors that come to this board you are doing a hell of a good job of it. Try coming to a conclusion that doesn't involve sweeping generalizations. ------------------ The All NEW www.PythonVideo.com Portal Page Python Dollar Machine Naughty Mail Pay by click Awesome Content

11-12-2001, 02:23 PM	#35
Theo HAL 9000 Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 34,515	there are plenty sponsors using ccbill,ibill and other 3rd part billing co. that you can use and avoid any shaving possibility. I don't think a webmaster is tied with big sponsors to make profit. Adult.com, Lightspeedcash etc use 3rd part billing co. and i personally know webmasters making tons of signups every month. When I started in adult industry I first joined maximumcash for the reputation it has. Through time i wasn't satisfied with maximumcash and stopped using them. What I did next? I joined almost every available sponsor except the ones with bad rumour of not paying. You have to test all of them and share your traffic to see what works for you better, that converts better etc.

11-12-2001, 08:48 PM	#36
Unriz3n Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 378	I was a bit heated up when i started this thread, my apologies since I do use some sponsors that always seem to save my ass come BW bill time. Its just there are some out there that simply seem fishy to me....back to work I go. [This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 11-12-2001).]