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Old 04-11-2004, 12:24 PM   #1
JiveMovies
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Posts: 137
Dont Do Business With mxdevelopment.com

http://www.mxdevelopment.com

Michael 4/11/200 12:21 PM hey

Michael 4/11/200 12:22 PM whats the temp ftp with dirtybills for

Michael 4/11/200 12:22 PM can i just upload to the perm

Michael 4/11/200 12:23 PM wait chris.... did you make it that for each
site... its a different sign on.. i wanna be
able to sign on once.. and have like pornovidz
folder pornsoldier folder same login

chrisp 4/11/200 1:14 PM its all in the e-mail i sent yoiu

chrisp 4/11/200 1:14 PM just log in and look

Michael 4/11/200 2:39 PM yO

chrisp 4/11/200 2:39 PM hi

Michael 4/11/200 2:39 PM whats the correct ftp address

chrisp 4/11/200 2:39 PM its in the email

Michael 4/11/200 2:40 PM i c like 4 ftp

chrisp 4/11/200 2:40 PM yes - ftp.dirtybills.com = ftp

chrisp 4/11/200 2:40 PM same with your domains

Michael 4/11/200 2:40 PM says temp

Michael 4/11/200 2:40 PM so for each domain i have to sign on indiv..

chrisp 4/11/200 2:40 PM yea.... you can ftp to ftp.dirtybills.com or
ftp.yourdomain.com or whatever you want

chrisp 4/11/200 2:40 PM just log in and look

Michael 4/11/200 2:41 PM do you have access to dirtybills.com?

Michael 4/11/200 2:41 PM i mean

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM heh

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM no

Michael 4/11/200 2:41 PM how dont you, its like your company ftp

Michael 4/11/200 2:41 PM im seriouse

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM er

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM you just asked if YOU have access to it

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM do you have access to dirtybills.com?

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM i mean

Michael 4/11/200 2:41 PM yea do you

chrisp 4/11/200 2:41 PM of course i have access to it

Michael 4/11/200 2:42 PM ok

Michael 4/11/200 2:42 PM i wanted a ftp address with all three domains
in that one address

chrisp 4/11/200 2:42 PM just log in

Michael 4/11/200 2:42 PM so i can just go threw the folders

Michael 4/11/200 2:42 PM dude, listen to me please

chrisp 4/11/200 2:42 PM have you even tried it?

chrisp 4/11/200 2:42 PM i understand what you want

chrisp 4/11/200 2:42 PM its setup that way

chrisp 4/11/200 2:42 PM you just need to log in and look

Michael 4/11/200 2:43 PM its not working

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM i dunno why you cant get this to work, but it
is indeed working, you need to check your
config

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM 220 ProFTPD 1.2.8 Server (ProFTPD)
[rcn57.realitychecknetwork.com]
Name (localhost:chrisp): xxxx
331 Password required for xxxxxx
Password:
230 User xxxxlogged in.
Remote system type is UNIX.
Using binary mode to transfer files.
ftp> ls
227 Entering Passive Mode (127,0,0,1,15,102).
150 Opening ASCII mode data connection for
file list
drwxr-xr-x 3 xxxxxx512 Apr
9 07:41 pornovids.com
drwxr-xr-x 3 xxxxxxxxx512 Apr
9 07:41 pornsoldier.com
drwxr-xr-x 3 xxxxxxxxxxx512 Apr
9 07:41 xxxxxxxxxx
226 Transfer complete.
ftp>


chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM its all right there

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM i have to go

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM ttyl

Michael 4/11/200 2:45 PM good support

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM i dont give suppoetr

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM supprt

Michael 4/11/200 2:45 PM ok

chrisp 4/11/200 2:45 PM whatever

Michael 4/11/200 2:45 PM who does

Michael 4/11/200 2:45 PM whatever dude

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM nohahahaha does, this is basic skills right here,
read my e-mail i sent you. i gave you the FTP
address, your user name and password, along
with everything else. all you need to do is
log in and look around, i cant sit here and
help you with ftp

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM i know

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM mabey you cant login cus your DNS hasnt
switched over

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM that has nothing to do with dns

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM what

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM i gotta run

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM no way

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM that has nothing to do with it

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM i have no idea

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM uh

chrisp 4/11/200 2:46 PM if your dns is pointing to you old machines

Michael 4/11/200 2:46 PM its a problem on ur side

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM lol

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM i never have problems

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM dude u dont have to switch dns to get onto the
server

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM UH

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM u didnt set it up right

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM LOL

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM LOOK.ENVISIONEXT.COM 64.237.55.49
AHEAD.ENVISIONEXT.COM 64.237.55.66


chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM those are your dnsservers

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM what are u laugin at

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM YEA

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM i knowwww

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM they dont look like the ones i gave you

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM omg

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM omg

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM omg

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM omg

chrisp 4/11/200 2:47 PM therefore go talk to envisionext

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM ur making me upset

Michael 4/11/200 2:47 PM i paid u money for what

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM so you can laugh

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM no

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM look into what u did when u set me up

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM u did sometning wrong

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM dns is to actually view the sites on the net

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM ok heres the deal

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM u dont need to change shittt to go on the
server

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM this is very simple

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM lol

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM i dont want a deal

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM dood go read a fucking book

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM LOLLOLOL

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM u want yer fucken money back?

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM i might

chrisp 4/11/200 2:48 PM your annoying the fuck out of me

Michael 4/11/200 2:48 PM ur annoying the fuck out of me

chrisp 4/11/200 2:49 PM if you dont know what DNS is, you obviously
shouldnt be using the wbe

chrisp 4/11/200 2:49 PM its very simple

Michael 4/11/200 2:49 PM yea ok

chrisp 4/11/200 2:49 PM you want your domains to resolve to MY
machine, you use MY fucking nameservers

Michael 4/11/200 2:49 PM u dont need to do that if i just wanna see the
server

chrisp 4/11/200 2:49 PM uh

Michael 4/11/200 2:49 PM i can log on to it with out changin dns

chrisp 4/11/200 2:49 PM THEN LOG INTO FTP.DIRTYBILLS.COM

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM USERNAME: xxxx

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM PASSWORD: xxxx

Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM i know the fucking logins

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM obviously not

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM whats this then:

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM Name (ftp.dirtybills.com:web): xxx
331 Password required for xxxxx
Password:
230 User xxxxlogged in.
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:25 PM   #2
JiveMovies
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Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM yea that worked

Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM ok

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM oh shit! i just logged in!

Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM now what do you have ot say

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM uh

Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM change dns

chrisp 4/11/200 2:50 PM good bye

Michael 4/11/200 2:50 PM yea

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM have a blast, dont plan on renewing at the end
of the month

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM dude send my money baack

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM i dont have time to deal with people who cant
read my fucking emails

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM paypal right now

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM lol

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM ill be back later

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM talk to jim

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM no one

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM bye

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM ill make sure to post this on gyfy

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM lol

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM ull get plenty of business

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM go right ahead

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM i will

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM later

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM and ill post your icq logs

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM HI I CANT READ AN EMAIL

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM great

chrisp 4/11/200 2:51 PM later

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM yea

Michael 4/11/200 2:51 PM ok

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM if you want to ask millions of questions goto
another host, its very simple

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM i cant sit here and explain my email to you

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM its done, send me my money dude

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM dont explain shit to me

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM ggo ahead and post, i can give a shit less

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM ur a fuckin rude asshole

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM fuck you, ask jim for a refund

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM i will

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM im not here to be nice

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM later

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM good luck

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM ur not here to be nice

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM ur an idiot

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM nope

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM idiot

chrisp 4/11/200 2:52 PM thats nice, i have skills, you have nothing

Michael 4/11/200 2:52 PM yea ok

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM ur a loser

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM lol

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM move the fuck on

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM ur a loser

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM im crying right now

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM waaaa

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM really use my cock to dry ur tears

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM hey man, atleast if i want to do a project and
pay for it, I CAN GET THE CASH UP AND NOT TRY
TO SWINDLE PEOPLE

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM lol

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM i use my boyfriends big black cock to rub the
tears away

chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM bye now

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM ow ok

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM nice

Michael 4/11/200 2:53 PM see u on gfy

Michael 4/11/200 2:54 PM pick up a paper, bc business might slow down

Michael 4/11/200 2:54 PM fucking tool

chrisp 4/11/200 2:54 PM LOL

chrisp 4/11/200 2:54 PM post it on GFY, people LOOOVEEEEE idiots like
you who cant even use FTP

chrisp 4/11/200 2:54 PM that will sure to get a laugh

Michael 4/11/200 2:54 PM yea ok

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM when u fuck up on ur end its ur fault asshole

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM please give me the URL to your post when you
do, i would like to post this ICQ log

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM go dudde

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM uh

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM ok great ill post it

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM ok fuckface

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM explain this to me

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM what may be fucked up

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM leaveeee

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM common, you dont even know what dns is

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM leave

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM lol

chrisp 4/11/200 2:55 PM go sell your sites you fucken broke peice of
shit

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM ahahah

Michael 4/11/200 2:55 PM LOL
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:25 PM   #3
dav555add
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:27 PM   #4
TDF
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motherfuckin summary..PLEASE~
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:27 PM   #5
BradM
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Sounds like you don't know how to use FTP to me and you're getting bitchy at him?
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:30 PM   #6
Juicy D. Links
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Webmaster Basics 101

Lesson 1

FTP
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:39 PM   #7
JaveWolf
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Internet Basics 001

Why don't you guys use IP's for FTP ?

LOL

Jave
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:40 PM   #8
danevans
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hmm, he wants to upload his sites to the new server before changing DNS, to avoid loss of traffic. If I'm wrong someone will correct me.
When I was changing my host, guys at oxeo moved my sites to their servers before the DNS changes took effect..
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:45 PM   #9
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Pretty simple.
First fix your site. Then change the DNS settings where you've regged the URL once your site is ready.
But still, why not using IP's for the ftp?
Can somehahahaha explain that to me?


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Old 04-11-2004, 12:46 PM   #10
THY
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yes, i think he just wants to have access to the server, DNS has nothing to do with login into a server...

may be the other side didint understand.. thou i dont think thats the way to deal with your clients...
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:51 PM   #11
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:08 PM   #12
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Learn to use ftp before u blame soemone dumbass....
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:34 PM   #13
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Why don't you guys use IP's for FTP ?


Ips aren't handed out freely as they once were by the Supreme IP Goddess...

There may be 2-500 or more domains on one IP. Using one for each FTP account would be wasting them. So they use one central www.yourname.com for a FTP login and hahahahaha the things up the the httpd file to get it all pointed right. (Simplistic explanation)

Now back to being the ditzy redhead. ;-)
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:44 PM   #14
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ahahaha
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:53 PM   #15
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I actually read that whole thing.


I must be real bored!
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Old 04-11-2004, 05:18 PM   #16
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Listen here fuck bag.

You go posting bullshit, you better post the right shit.

You have been annoying me from fucking day 1.

You had a project you wanted me to do for you a few weeks ago. I spent a good amount of time with you on it. Turns out you just felt like asking 3 million questions, and then you couldn't come up with the cash. You even complained to me you have huge credit card debt and couldn't even come up with the fucking 1250$ for the project, AND I EVEN TRIED TO CUT YOU PAYMENT BRAKES.

That was strike one.

Now you wanted some hosting that we do as favors to people and you cant even fucking read my email to you explaining how to use the god damm hosting.

Im not here to give you support, there is no support. If you can't use fucking FTP, you shouldn't be doing sites.

Very fucking simple.

Now fuck off you peice of shit and get a clue. Your nothing but a whiney BITCH.
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Old 04-11-2004, 05:28 PM   #17
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Also, to the people talking about using an IP, it really doesnt matter considering I gave him another hostname to FTP to. Simply stated, host name, IP, whatever, it all goes to the same machine. Everything was spelled out clear as fucking day to him. He just can't read and wants to waste peoples time asking 1000000 questions.

Also, we dont "do" hosting, we do it as a favor to people we know. Obviously this fucktard isn't somehahahaha who we want to know considering he can't even use FTP.

Don't like my ethics? Good, cus I dont give a fuck, im not here to make friends.

So the deal is
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Old 04-11-2004, 05:42 PM   #18
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Sounds like he gave you the proper login info and you just didn't login?
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Old 01-22-2005, 01:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp420
Listen here fuck bag.

....

Now fuck off you peice of shit and get a clue. Your nothing but a whiney BITCH.
Wow. I found this thread after doing a google search for "mxdevelopment.com". I was looking for background info on this company, etc, as I'm interested in hiring them to do some work for me. My contact is "Chris Puccio", who appears to be the person I quoted above.

Now.. I've read this thread, and I realize that the original poster is at fault, etc.. but what amazes me is the response from Chris.

Is that how you wish to represent your company? Yikes. Your response is just so amazingly unprofessional that I am simply shocked. Why not just leave the foul language in the playroom and simply address the issue without resorting to the same childish behaviour as your accuser?

I'm not so sure I want to do business with someone who reacts like a child. From what I've seen, your company is very competent, and you seem to deliver good work.

But there's more to business then just delivering good work. I don't know if I wish to associate with you, after reading this thread and your responses.

There is just NEVER a reason to dive into the cesspool in your post. Even if you're right. Sorry but professional companies don't behave this way, nor do they allow their employees.. unless they either don't need the business or just have no respect for themselves or others.

I'm going to have to think about this before I hire mxdevelopment.com for my project.

Last edited by electric; 01-22-2005 at 01:05 AM..
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Old 01-22-2005, 01:20 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electric
Wow. I found this thread after doing a google search for "mxdevelopment.com". I was looking for background info on this company, etc, as I'm interested in hiring them to do some work for me. My contact is "Chris Puccio", who appears to be the person I quoted above.

Now.. I've read this thread, and I realize that the original poster is at fault, etc.. but what amazes me is the response from Chris.

Is that how you wish to represent your company? Yikes. Your response is just so amazingly unprofessional that I am simply shocked. Why not just leave the foul language in the playroom and simply address the issue without resorting to the same childish behaviour as your accuser?

I'm not so sure I want to do business with someone who reacts like a child. From what I've seen, your company is very competent, and you seem to deliver good work.

But there's more to business then just delivering good work. I don't know if I wish to associate with you, after reading this thread and your responses.

There is just NEVER a reason to dive into the cesspool in your post. Even if you're right. Sorry but professional companies don't behave this way, nor do they allow their employees.. unless they either don't need the business or just have no respect for themselves or others.

I'm going to have to think about this before I hire mxdevelopment.com for my project.

You found this page on google bla bla .. lol

Sorry , but this page is NOT indexed in google ;) So how you found this thread in google with the kewyord mxdevelopment.com ?
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Old 01-22-2005, 01:21 AM   #21
Snake Doctor
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My experience with mxdevelopment was a good one.

I bought some software they were selling and then had them custom code a little something for me.
No probs at all.

Matter of fact, they sold the 2257 software to someone else but still gave me support when I needed it even though it wasn't their baby anymore.
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Old 01-22-2005, 02:09 AM   #22
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Exactly why I decided against starting a hosting company.
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Old 01-22-2005, 02:24 AM   #23
AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE
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Old 01-22-2005, 02:37 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crypt
You found this page on google bla bla .. lol

Sorry , but this page is NOT indexed in google ;) So how you found this thread in google with the kewyord mxdevelopment.com ?

Um, yes it is in google.

http://www.google.com/search?q="mxdevelopment.com"

GOOGLE 101!
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Old 01-22-2005, 04:49 AM   #25
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hahaha someone got owned
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Old 01-22-2005, 04:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by chrisp420
Listen here fuck bag.

You go posting bullshit, you better post the right shit.

You have been annoying me from fucking day 1.

I was on your side until I saw the high level of professionalism you maintain. Let me make a note... done.

SpaceAce
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Old 01-22-2005, 08:21 AM   #27
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i think the client was out of line by threatening.

and does more harm to the clients rep then the companys
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Old 01-22-2005, 08:28 AM   #28
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chrisp 4/11/200 2:53 PM i use my boyfriends big black cock to rub the tears away
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Old 01-22-2005, 08:36 AM   #29
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WHY DO nooBS BRING UP OLD THREADS? FUCK OFF

here is an early present

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Old 01-22-2005, 08:39 AM   #30
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Damn that sucks man ! Sorry for you !
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Old 01-22-2005, 08:40 AM   #31
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By the way, if you want something done professionaly, visit us : http://www.simplyadultdesign.com
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Old 01-22-2005, 09:37 AM   #32
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JiveMovies now goes by the name B-Eazy.

Fucking people think I'm a scammer and this guy has been around scamming under multiple nicks for at least a year now.
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Old 01-22-2005, 09:40 AM   #33
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ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzZZZZzzzzzzz Boring read, Micheal you suck
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Old 01-22-2005, 09:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electric
Wow. I found this thread after doing a google search for "mxdevelopment.com". I was looking for background info on this company, etc, as I'm interested in hiring them to do some work for me. My contact is "Chris Puccio", who appears to be the person I quoted above.

Now.. I've read this thread, and I realize that the original poster is at fault, etc.. but what amazes me is the response from Chris.

Is that how you wish to represent your company? Yikes. Your response is just so amazingly unprofessional that I am simply shocked. Why not just leave the foul language in the playroom and simply address the issue without resorting to the same childish behaviour as your accuser?

I'm not so sure I want to do business with someone who reacts like a child. From what I've seen, your company is very competent, and you seem to deliver good work.

But there's more to business then just delivering good work. I don't know if I wish to associate with you, after reading this thread and your responses.

There is just NEVER a reason to dive into the cesspool in your post. Even if you're right. Sorry but professional companies don't behave this way, nor do they allow their employees.. unless they either don't need the business or just have no respect for themselves or others.

I'm going to have to think about this before I hire mxdevelopment.com for my project.
MXDevelopment are good guys. This guy here that he was dealing with has a history of hiring people to do work or selling sites and NOT FOLLOWING THRU on the deal...them blaming the others involved.

He doesn't pay for anything. Gives the sob story and then bolts and doesn't respond.

I bought a small 10k a day TGP from him, before I took it over it dropped to 7k a day and he said that he would get it back to 10k and I'd be good to go. That never happened, the site traffic dropped like a stone and within 3 days I was out my $400.

I wrote it off, but you can bet your ass I'll be sounding off in all of his threads from this point out.
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Old 01-22-2005, 11:46 AM   #35
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We at mxdevelopment are very conscious of what our clients needs are. We try to maintain a level of professionalism but there comes a point where even after repeated attempts to be civil things arent clear. If a client has a problem be it software or any other problem there is proper channels to go and recieve support. This situation obviously was beyond our control, If you cant follow simple directions then please get someone on board who can.

We look forward to working with you all in the future.

On another note, If you are looking for software, be it affiliate or custom for any of your needs feel free to contact me .
Thomas
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Old 01-22-2005, 11:57 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by electric

Is that how you wish to represent your company? Yikes. Your response is just so amazingly unprofessional that I am simply shocked. Why not just leave the foul language in the playroom and simply address the issue without resorting to the same childish behaviour as your accuser?

I'm not so sure I want to do business with someone who reacts like a child. From what I've seen, your company is very competent, and you seem to deliver good work.

But there's more to business then just delivering good work. I don't know if I wish to associate with you, after reading this thread and your responses.

There is just NEVER a reason to dive into the cesspool in your post. Even if you're right. Sorry but professional companies don't behave this way, nor do they allow their employees.. unless they either don't need the business or just have no respect for themselves or others.

I'm going to have to think about this before I hire mxdevelopment.com for my project.
electric, In response to your post, Under normal circumstances this would not have happened. Chris does not normally undertake support issues this was done as he said "a favor" . We have a team of individuals that work on all areas of support for our clients, whether that be custom programming, support or installation. When a client needs support they should contact there support rep and address any issues concerns they may have. We strive to make our clients experience with mxdevelopment as easy as possible to ensure that client will consider us in future for other projects/development.
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Old 01-22-2005, 12:03 PM   #37
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this is an old ass thread
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Old 01-22-2005, 12:21 PM   #38
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damn old thread
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