First Iraqi prisoner abuse trial: GUILTY

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  • Rochard
    Jägermeister Test Pilot
    • Dec 2001
    • 75733
    #1

    First Iraqi prisoner abuse trial: GUILTY

    CNN just sent out a news alert email saying that Army Spc. Charles Graner Jr. has been found guilty in Iraqi prisoner abuse trial.

    This is the difference between the US and "other countries". When someone fucks up, we punish them.

    From what I've read in the news reports the past few days, everyone in the trial said that no one higher up approved of any of this.
    Herschel Savage
    Brooklyn, NY
    Tags: None
    • theking
      Nice Kitty
      • Sep 2002
      • 21053
      #2
      Originally posted by RocHard
      CNN just sent out a news alert email saying that Army Spc. Charles Graner Jr. has been found guilty in Iraqi prisoner abuse trial.

      This is the difference between the US and "other countries". When someone fucks up, we punish them.

      From what I've read in the news reports the past few days, everyone in the trial said that no one higher up approved of any of this.
      As far as I know...his defense attorneys did not present anyone that supposedly ordered him to do what he did...and it appears that he was the fuckup that was the "ring leader" of the other fuckups. It will be interesting to see what his sentence is. I suspect it will be a lengthy one.
      When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

      FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

        Comment

        • eroswebmaster
          March 1st, 2003
          • Jul 2001
          • 20295
          #3
          Ouch...even if there was some implied approval from up above the guy should have had the common sense not to pull this shit.
          For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
          Click here for more details

            Comment

            • theking
              Nice Kitty
              • Sep 2002
              • 21053
              #4
              He appears to be an amoral...sadistic...sexually sick...individual...that if I am not mistaken was a Prison Guard before his NG unit was called up. It would be interesting to read his "jacket" or to know what his peers had to say about him as a civilian Prison Guard.
              When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

              FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                Comment

                • Webby
                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 14956
                  #5
                  RocHard:

                  This is the difference between the US and "other countries". When someone fucks up, we punish them.
                  I'm not commenting on the trial or the defendant - the jury have more clue than anyone and they appear to have been selected from "informed" military personnel qualified to have an opinion. That is better than often happens in a civilian court where jury members are often totally dumb and unable to follow a trial if it starts getting complex - it's the old "don't confuse the jury problem" for prosecution and defence legal teams.

                  I was involved in one issue - not as a perp!! - but aware and had evidence for a prosecutor. The matter was so damned messy and involved more offences every time a paper was moved - the prosecution team just did not want to proceed cos the case would cost, at their reckoning $2.2m and just send a jury to sleep. In the end this was all superceded when the "perp" got caught with a load of drugs and is now serving a sentence. Tho they still have hopes of greeting him at the prison gates when release time comes - the guy is far too dangerous to be walking.

                  The comment about other countries, - I'm sure some other countries have problems, but rest assured this defendant would not be walking to court in most western countries - he'd be in custody and escorted into court. I suspect it would also be more than a military court hearing this case.
                  Last edited by Webby; 01-14-2005, 03:11 PM.
                  XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

                    Comment

                    • nofx
                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                      • Nov 2002
                      • 16826
                      #6
                      They should torture him

                      Often times I wonder why
                      There's love and hate, theres live or die.
                      When sickness comes I must decide:
                      When feelings go, theres suicide.

                        Comment

                        • Webby
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Oct 2002
                          • 14956
                          #7
                          nofx:

                          They should torture him
                          That crumbles tho whole concept of justice and makes everyone the same as this defendant :-)

                          Nobody needs to be tortured, irrespective of whatever the hell they did - anyplace...
                          XXX TLD's - Another mosquito to swat.

                            Comment

                            • theking
                              Nice Kitty
                              • Sep 2002
                              • 21053
                              #8
                              Originally posted by Webby
                              RocHard:
                              I'm not commenting on the trial or the defendant - the jury have more clue than anyone and they appear to have been selected from "informed" military personnel qualified to have an opinion. .
                              You do not have a comment about the trial or the defendant???

                              If I recall correctly you...and other USA bashers...had plenty of comments to make about the Abu Ghraib affair when it hit the media. Blaming the President...the Secretary of Defense and Gonzales...for the "Abu Ghraib policy" of "torture".
                              Last edited by theking; 01-14-2005, 03:26 PM.
                              When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                              FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                Comment

                                • Rochard
                                  Jägermeister Test Pilot
                                  • Dec 2001
                                  • 75733
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by theking
                                  You do not have a comment about the trial or the defendant???

                                  If I recall correctly you...and other USA bashers...had plenty of comments to make about the Abu Ghraib affair when it hit the media. Blaming the President...the Secretary of Defense and Gonzales...for the "Abu Ghraib policy" of "torture".
                                  A lot of US bashers came out after this was exposed. However, this is not how our military acts. I'm a former US Marine, and I doubt the rules have changed all that much. This was not acceptable behavior no matter what. I find it hard to believe that "these orders came from higher up" beacause no one in their right mind would follow them.

                                  Unless they were sick or sadistic.
                                  Herschel Savage
                                  Brooklyn, NY

                                    Comment

                                    • arg
                                      Confirmed User
                                      • Feb 2003
                                      • 1164
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by theking
                                      He appears to be an amoral...sadistic...sexually sick...individual...that if I am not mistaken was a Prison Guard before his NG unit was called up. It would be interesting to read his "jacket" or to know what his peers had to say about him as a civilian Prison Guard.
                                      His local & state prison jobs were also marked by sadistic violence. He poisoned a coworker, was accused of putting a razor blade in a prisoner's food and then beating him and calling him "n****r" as he took him for medical attention, was accused of torturing and beating other inmates, calling them racial epithets, writing KKK in their blood, putting pork in muslim prisoners' food, and such. Nothing (other than the poisoning) was provable, as it was always guard testimony vs. inmate testimony, and all alleged torture and abuse took place where there were no cameras. His home life was similarly violent, he beat his previous wife, stalked her, secretly videotaped her, threatened to kill her, and so on, despite protection orders.

                                        Comment

                                        • theking
                                          Nice Kitty
                                          • Sep 2002
                                          • 21053
                                          #11
                                          Originally posted by RocHard
                                          A lot of US bashers came out after this was exposed. However, this is not how our military acts. I'm a former US Marine, and I doubt the rules have changed all that much. This was not acceptable behavior no matter what. I find it hard to believe that "these orders came from higher up" beacause no one in their right mind would follow them.

                                          Unless they were sick or sadistic.
                                          Yes...a lot. They also were crying about a military cover up...when in fact the military had begun their investigation long before the media began to play the story up.
                                          When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                          FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                            Comment

                                            • cold_ice
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Jun 2002
                                              • 3027
                                              #12
                                              Sometimes people need to be tortured. Our soldiers strip them down and their soldiers cut off innocents peoples heads off. I don't feel sorry for any of them.

                                                Comment

                                                • directfiesta
                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                  • 30155
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by RocHard
                                                  A lot of US bashers came out after this was exposed. However, this is not how our military acts. I'm a former US Marine, and I doubt the rules have changed all that much. This was not acceptable behavior no matter what. I find it hard to believe that "these orders came from higher up" beacause no one in their right mind would follow them.

                                                  Unless they were sick or sadistic.
                                                  TODAY:

                                                  US 'should not rule out torture'


                                                  Outgoing US head of Homeland Security Tom Ridge
                                                  Ridge said information extracted by torture could be unreliable
                                                  The outgoing head of the US Department of Homeland Security has said torture may be used in certain cases in order to prevent a major loss of life.

                                                  http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4175713.stm
                                                  I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                  But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                    Comment

                                                    • theking
                                                      Nice Kitty
                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                      • 21053
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by arg
                                                      His local & state prison jobs were also marked by sadistic violence. He poisoned a coworker, was accused of putting a razor blade in a prisoner's food and then beating him and calling him "n****r" as he took him for medical attention, was accused of torturing and beating other inmates, calling them racial epithets, writing KKK in their blood, putting pork in muslim prisoners' food, and such. Nothing (other than the poisoning) was provable, as it was always guard testimony vs. inmate testimony, and all alleged torture and abuse took place where there were no cameras. His home life was similarly violent, he beat his previous wife, stalked her, secretly videotaped her, threatened to kill her, and so on, despite protection orders.
                                                      I am not at all surprised. What was your source...do you have a link to provide.
                                                      When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                      FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                        Comment

                                                        • theking
                                                          Nice Kitty
                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                          • 21053
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                          TODAY:

                                                          US 'should not rule out torture'


                                                          Outgoing US head of Homeland Security Tom Ridge
                                                          Ridge said information extracted by torture could be unreliable
                                                          The outgoing head of the US Department of Homeland Security has said torture may be used in certain cases in order to prevent a major loss of life.

                                                          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4175713.stm
                                                          "Out going" being the key words here as well as...""human nature" that torture might be employed in certain exceptional cases when time was very limited." This in no way represents "policy".
                                                          When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                          FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                            Comment

                                                            • titmowse
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                              • 5320
                                                              #16
                                                              Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                              TODAY:

                                                              US 'should not rule out torture'


                                                              Outgoing US head of Homeland Security Tom Ridge
                                                              Ridge said information extracted by torture could be unreliable
                                                              The outgoing head of the US Department of Homeland Security has said torture may be used in certain cases in order to prevent a major loss of life.

                                                              http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4175713.stm
                                                              i saw that. but it's all good. we found those weapons of mass destruction, right?
                                                              I still love everybody

                                                                Comment

                                                                • arg
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Feb 2003
                                                                  • 1164
                                                                  #17
                                                                  Originally posted by theking
                                                                  I am not at all surprised. What was your source...do you have a link to provide.
                                                                  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jun4.html
                                                                  http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f...25-2923920.php
                                                                  http://www.anairhoads.org/politics/graner.shtml
                                                                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • theking
                                                                      Nice Kitty
                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                      • 21053
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by arg
                                                                      http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jun4.html
                                                                      http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f...25-2923920.php
                                                                      http://www.anairhoads.org/politics/graner.shtml
                                                                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Graner
                                                                      This leaped out to me from one of the articles...he was constantly "disobeying orders" as a civilian prison guard. Where as his defense at the Courts Martial argued (without presenting any one that supposedly gave him orders) that he was only obeying orders.

                                                                      BTW...thanks for the links.
                                                                      When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                      FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • axelcat
                                                                          Adult Locals
                                                                          • Jun 2002
                                                                          • 25450
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by nofx
                                                                          They should torture him
                                                                          they wont go to that extreme

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • Joe Citizen
                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                              • 4552
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Human garbage.

                                                                              Time to take out the trash.

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • directfiesta
                                                                                  Too lazy to set a custom title
                                                                                  • Oct 2002
                                                                                  • 30155
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by theking
                                                                                  This leaped out to me from one of the articles...he was constantly "disobeying orders" as a civilian prison guard. Where as his defense at the Courts Martial argued (without presenting any one that supposedly gave him orders) that he was only obeying orders.

                                                                                  BTW...thanks for the links.

                                                                                  Yeap.. made of him a PERFECT candidate ....
                                                                                  I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

                                                                                  But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • theking
                                                                                      Nice Kitty
                                                                                      • Sep 2002
                                                                                      • 21053
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      Originally posted by Joe Citizen
                                                                                      Human garbage.

                                                                                      Time to take out the trash.
                                                                                      Good...you are leaving us then?
                                                                                      When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                      FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • theking
                                                                                          Nice Kitty
                                                                                          • Sep 2002
                                                                                          • 21053
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                                                          Yeap.. made of him a PERFECT candidate ....
                                                                                          I suppose your statement has meaning to you.
                                                                                          When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!

                                                                                          FOR THE LYING LOWLIFE POSTING AS PATHFINDER...http://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...athfinder.html

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • titmowse
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Jan 2001
                                                                                              • 5320
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by directfiesta
                                                                                              Yeap.. made of him a PERFECT candidate ....
                                                                                              Well, he was just a bad apple. It's not like the whitehouse was exchanging memos to figure out legal ways to torture. I mean come on! We had WMD's to find!
                                                                                              I still love everybody

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • Workshop_Willy
                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                  • Oct 2004
                                                                                                  • 452
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by eroswebmaster
                                                                                                  Ouch...even if there was some implied approval from up above the guy should have had the common sense not to pull this shit.

                                                                                                  Good observation. In fact, under the UCMJ, a soldier is obliged to disobey an illegal or unlawful order.
                                                                                                  FREE Retouch - get a gratis from the best there is!


                                                                                                  Do the Mess-Around...

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • rambler
                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                      • Jun 2004
                                                                                                      • 745
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by RocHard
                                                                                                      A lot of US bashers came out after this was exposed. However, this is not how our military acts. I'm a former US Marine, and I doubt the rules have changed all that much. This was not acceptable behavior no matter what. I find it hard to believe that "these orders came from higher up" beacause no one in their right mind would follow them.

                                                                                                      Unless they were sick or sadistic.
                                                                                                      Didn't the soldiers underneath him follow his orders... so they must have not been in thier right mind either.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • V_RocKs
                                                                                                          Damn Right I Kiss Ass!
                                                                                                          • Nov 2003
                                                                                                          • 32448
                                                                                                          #27

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