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:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh You gotta love your job, whoring message boards and asking people on ICQ to post positive comments in your threads |
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Welcome to my ignore. I don't waste my time on nobodies who don't even say who they are. You're nothing but an alternative personality of a competitor. Goodbye. |
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I am more than willing to achieve my bet. But of course, I'd need it to be sanctioned by you guys so that you couldn't turn around and badger me later. All I sense is arrogance. If you sanction it, I could write a track.php which could easily implement shaving TRANSPARENTLY. But since you're throwing things like "We're going to sue you!" out there - why would I bother? I just find it funny you're so naive and so arrogant. |
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You seem to have very little clue about development for the guy who wrote NATS. |
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However, if you can help us in anyway to make things harder than we're looking to help you out also not sue you. |
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You know that language you developed NATS in? PHP? You may be shocked, but IT is in fact open-source! All I sense from you, Nathan, is that you're entirely arrogant and not entirely intelligent. You are defending yourself with every inch of strength and attacking pretty much everyone in this thread. Your posts are utter rubbish and you still won't stand up and say, yes, it is possible for someone to wrap around NATS to implement shaving. Wrapping is an idea that is years old. TCP wrapping? SOCKS wrapping? Hell, how about a kernel module that wraps system calls? IDSs etc.? You'd have to be an utter fool to argue you can't simulate your code by wrapping around it with another file. |
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And as for the local programmer side of things. If you actually attended any kind of tertiary qualifications for development, you'd have been taught the term "documentation." Most DECENT code is well documented to enable other developers to work with the same code. Thus, a new programmer will not "break" the code as you put it, but will be able to easily follow the code by using the documentation provided. This is how IT is professionally developed. Contractors come in and out; many people work on long-term projects. You sound to me like you're self-taught and rather defensive about your skills/knowledge. Please, before you post again, it may be wise to actually research the techniques involved in development. |
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I think the point is that you guys are strongly AGAINST shaving and that you will not make it easy for anyone to do. That is a GOOD thing. However, coming in and attacking people for saying "yes it's possible to write something for shaving" and becoming incredibly defensive is NOT good. |
", we have more in writting and supporting software. We're a software company who bases our product on feedback from our many clients."
What other software have you guys developed? Just curious. |
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nothing can beat a custom system :)
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Fabien own NATS? I am confused? I thought Nathan and John owned it. Fabien the one that sold Porn Track?
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just do a search across the boards, lots of helpful threads already!
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I agree that custom is better. But prepackaged/managed software CAN be so much easier...and faster to get... and usually cheaper.
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I don't see how an advanced custom affiliate script can be better than the one coded and supported from a company dedicated on this. I've been a client of Direct Response that operates probably the most advanced mainstream affiliate/network platform. (directtrack) These people have been developing the same product since '97, they have done innumerable upgrades/debugging, their own datacenter and so on. If someone would try to clone it he would need a huge amount of money and time and he would have to keep it supported with capable coders. Does it worth the hassle, time and money? No. What are the benefits of a custom script? To request something more to be added? This can be done too when you deal with serious companies.
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If employees of either NATS or MPA3 are able to login in admin mode to obviously work the script bugs etc, what's to say they aren't lifting information out - emails of webmaster surfers etc?
What of webmaster SSN numbers, how are these protected? just curious |
Brad
I think Fabian and Nathan are the same guy. Nathan is Fabians icq nic |
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What about the billing companies? They have access too. The merc.gateways? same thing. Hosting company? Probably too. I can see the concern, but I would consider it as a big issue if it was the only one. |
I use generated passes on my hosting, and my root pass is getting changed after I have the admins look at my server.
I was talking more about an outsourced admin person, someone who's not in the company's office, but different country |
and I dont give out my SSN when signing up for porn sites but have to with some or most sponsors, and some of them don't even have HTTPS forms for that
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It's only illegal if you sell it, or use it to benefit from. |
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I am not arrogant btw, and not naive. I'm proud of my programming, thats it really. |
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From how you talk, you must be some open-source-lover. Do you read through the source of every single program you want to use before actually using it? BTW, if open-source is there to have apps run "flawless"... I wonder why the heck there are new security holes found in open source apps every day. Does not seem to help much that great open-source idea, huh? Of course, you will now come and say "but non-open-source apps have even more holes"..... |
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And you are correct, Linux is entirely open-source. And I am using ICQ apps which are open-source too (they can nolonger connect me to ICQ, but heck, ICQ 4 is just annoying). This is all great. Quote:
Can you do anything else than insult me? No idea why you react so extremely aggressive. What did I do to make you so pissed at me? I have explained in the previous post why simply wrapping track.php does not help in transparency... |
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Me myself, I wrote a big number of statistical apps. I guess you would call it "counters" ... really more than that though: PornTrack, Counted!, SexTrail, PornGraph. I wrote log-analysers too. I also wrote a web server (daemon) system, but it was never released due to lack of time. It works well though. I wrote big parts of a WebCam-Network's backend and some of the frontend. And then a bunch of smaller apps that I really forgot about already. |
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Nathan = Fabian. Btw, its _FABIAN_ and not Fabien. Why does everyone mess up my name? :( PornTrack? I wrote it, did not sell it though. I got fucked by my ex partner (Preston) on it. Lost a bunch of $$. That was YEARS ago though. |
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You do not have to give us admin access to NATS. We do not HAVE to update your script if you think we have any interest in "lifting" any information from your database. We are the last to do that though, we have 0 interest in it. We do understand the concern and thats why we let you lock us out. And when we want to update your scripts, we can walk you through doing that yourself. |
If someone - user or programmer - wants to go the open source route, fair enough, but let's not start talking as if it is anywhere near the norm. I worked as a consultant project manager for several years with a lot of household name companies and I can count on my fingers the number of times I came across unencoded software in production use.
Never mind software intended for sale to multiple clients, contracts for custom-coded software often did not include intellectual ownership of the software and it was therefore encoded. Clients might have access to the plain code, but that was usually for specific reasons and in controlled circumstances. Even software developed in-house was commonly encoded before going into a production environment. None of which prevented auditing, custom coding on request, etc. Unless a program is a relatively simple one, or you put far greater resources into understanding it than any honest person or business is likely to commit, you don't need to see the code and doing so won't benefit you in any way. So why expect the author to make analysis of his work easier than it need be? That aspect of this thread apart, I have to wonder at the motivation behind some of the posts knocking NATS. So what if their software is as vulnerable to cheating sponsors as any other? That doesn't make them guilty of anything worse than maybe over-hyping that it hasn't got any shave features built in and their promise to go after anyone who adds their own. Maybe they will do that, maybe not, but no-one has suggested they have already turned a blind eye to such abuse. Which all makes it a bit odd that in this thread anyway, they have come in for more flack than Mansion, who actually were caught supporting sponsors with features intended to cheat their affiliates. |
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Moreover, I do love open-source and there's definitely nothing wrong with that. I'm sure your servers are running Linux/FreeBSD, which is open-source. You use PHP, which is open-source. You use MySQL, which is open-source. I'm not required to read through the source of every application I run because I am confident that it has been audited correctly by the open-source community several times over. But it certainly helps when I am curious as to how a certain application is working. It's also rather useful when developing FOR a certain application. For example, developing an Apache module - the source is essential. And finally, you've proved you have NO clue about security. Go subscribe to bugtraq and see the spread of vulnerabilities. Linux/FreeBSD/OpenBSD .. hell ANY of the Unixes haven't had a major remote vulnerability in yonks. Lets see about Windows - two DCOM vulnerabilities in the last year? More IIS vulnerabilities. The list goes on. You'd have to be absolutely out of your mind to try to tell me, that closed-source applications are somehow more secure. The reason bugs are often found in open-source applications, is because they are much more easily audited. So while the open-source applications have the non-critical bugs ironed out of them, people are stumbling across MAJOR vulnerabilities in things like Windows all the time. How about the fundamental flaw in the Windows messaging system that allows anyone to escalate privileges? Shatter? Clearly, you have no idea what I'm talking about because you haven't researched that much into security. But trust me, I have. I'm not going to sit here and argue what OS is more secure or something stupid like that. I'm just going to say, that open-source makes me feel much safer on the boxes I use. |
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I am not "pissed" - more attacking your arrogance. The fact that you are trying to promote your program is the best out there and everybody loves it is just way too over the top. I have absolutely nothing against NATS - but when you start directly saying you'd "sue" me if I did this, "no this definitely isn't possible!" It's ridiculous and unprofessional. Being humble is often a wise idea. Oh, and my explanation in my previous posts as to how to get around that is there as well. Wrap track.php to shave the clicks; wrap signup.php to shave the sales. Of course, you'd have to write something to add a member to the database into the wrapped signup.php but that's not difficult. The fact is, it could easily be done. And it's far from a huge job. I could do it in 5 minutes I'm sure; others may take longer. |
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So now you have 2, no 3 points of failure of your great shaving wrapper around NATS, which are all prone for us to detect you doing something weird with the traffic. |
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Simple enough. 10 lines of code? |
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BTW, there are books about writing Apache modules. The source is actually not essential. ;) Quote:
My point was that open-source software is FAR FROM flawless like YOU claimed the whole point of open-source would be. Quote:
So sorry I pissed you off so much... LOL |
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The fact is, you're talking about me as an "open-source lover" as if there's something horribly wrong about that. And you're arguing that open-source software has FAR more bugs (you actually said that). And yet, you're running that. So why didn't you develop in Windows, with ASP.Net and SQL Server? Oh, and when was the last time you wrote an Apache module? I'm sorry, never? I've written quite a number of them and trust me, the source is essential. No book could replace being able to actually see how things are working. Talk from experience, not your time at the local bookstore. No, you didn't say that. You said that open-source software has a lot more security flaws. Which is false. What is also false, is that Apache, MySQL, sendmail, etc. is part of a Unix system. No, it's not. Apache, MySQL, sendmail and the like are applications that run most often on Unix systems. Apache and MySQL both have Win32 ports. Now, compare Apache to IIS over the last three years and honestly tell me Apache has had more flaws. Do the same with any two open-source vs. closed-source applications. I only say you have no clue, because you simply don't. Go visit bugtraq, read it for a few months. There are security companies who just constantly audit the open-source code. So let's think logically. The open-source code is getting audited by numerous, separate people ALL the time. The closed-source code is audited by the developers and that's it. Logically, what is going to have more bugs? Seriously, you'd have to be extremely naive to think open-source is going to be buggier. That is one of the many advantages of open-source software. The Zend suite of software is an attempt to push PHP commercial. The Zend engine in PHP is completely open-source and if the encoder was half decent, there would be no problem pushing it open-source. |
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This arguing back and forth about open or closed source is useless. You obviously have a fundamental difference in thinking in this area. We prefer to encode our source code to protect it against tampering with and steeling by our competition. If you do not agree with that... thats not my problem. I have good reasons and all our clients and a LOT of other people agree. Quote:
If have not said its impossible. I have said its not as easy as you think ;) Read what I write. Quote:
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Also, great system, just shitty when a reseller checks your cascade with his reseller code and somehow notices that, hmmm... why the fuck does NATS send the resellerid 0 or at least one that is not me to the friggin biller. Now that is weird huh? |
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