50.,....

IMHO

I would simply ask the employee if they were considering another position. If so, why. That's it. Then if the employer deems fit, they can make arrangements to keep the employee (More money, new title et).
In the big time Ad agency world, the top sales people get MONTHS of vacation PAID by the employer. Why? Because it's worth it financially. That's it! I would ONLY hire go getters and along with that, people that look out for #1. If they recognize they have it good, they will turn down the offer and then who looks good? I would ALWAYS welcome an employee to come to me and tell me of any other offers in order to sweeten what they have. It's the employers job to say "Ok, you're worth it" or "Well, I'm sorry but we're tapped. You should go for the other job".
The point; Do what you can for your employees and they will recognize it, thus performing well and creating a better image for the company.

Just my :2 cents:

DP

Depends...some states here in the US allow you to fire without listing any cause. As long as they can't prove it was because of some kind of discrimination you're cool.
Hell in Texas when I was managing for Taco Bell you weren't even required to give people a break..imagine that in the fucking 90's...you didn't have to treat people like humans.

no question, it is harsh

I have a good number of people in my organization who I have paid to take to conventions, both such as Internext and in other industries, and I definitely do not think that every single person working on any portion of my business must go to all shows to do well at what they do. I don't even attend everything. Often, I need a certain number of people, but I have a choice on who to bring and I will go with the people I trust.

I think most people consider socializing around the clock and practically 24/7 open bar in an interesting city . . . a perk.

And, I agree with what PK said, if they will essentially cheat on their current employer, that makes them less desireable anyway. Depending on their function I suppose.

Funny, that is the exact same question I ask when a chick that I know is taken hits on me.

Every show? Certainly not. But in this industry, the two big ones ARE vital. It's the only shows that some people go to, so your only chance to sit down face to face.

Who would have TIME to go to every show? Certainly not I.

I suppose that's a perk, but even when socializing around the clock, worthwhile employees are still talking business every chance they get. Remember that business derived in many forms. A lot of people won't do business with someone unless they've met them. A simple meeting at 4 AM at the Island Bar could easily generate direct business or at the very least referrals, simply from someone who met you and was impressed.

Not to mention the extra hours you put in when you get back to get caught up when your totally exhausted from "Networking" for 20 hours a day (literally).

That I agree with.

Consult an Attorney.

hehe and exactly what I told my ex about 'the other woman'. I won't even tell ya what she's done since.

Hell now, I mean its a open market...tho using your work time to discuss it is innapropriatte...

I had a feeling you would understand :)

I may be wrong here BUT...I think it is ILLEGAL to approach someone who is "on the job" and ask them about leaving said job for employment elswhere(the said employee here is not at fault...This may or may not be a state law(Michigan)...it may HAVE been a law but may not be anymore.I'm not sure how or under what circumstances this applied ...but I do know that this was/is appropro in Michigan.
The key here is... IMO... whether or not this is a state issue...which I think it is!Every state has their OWN whacked out laws(again I know this 'cuase I'm from Michigan)!
I guess it comes down to this in my eyes...you want to FIRE someone for entertaining other employment otions while this person is "on the clock"????
In the first place...if you really took care of a valued employee...why in the hell WOULD they entertain other options?
Secondly....sounds like you want to fire someone before they quit...and again...If you took care of them and respected them....WHY would they go elsewhere?

It is a fine line but the second they stop selling what they are there to sell is the second that they could be fired for neglecting their duties. It really is a fine line though because they are there to please you and try and get you to buy whatever they are selling they really can't be faulted for talking to you but I guess that would be up to their boss. Great question that really makes you think.

If threats, fear and bullying tactics are used by a company when another company thinks their employee is a desirable asset then all that company are going to be left with is people no one wants..

If your boss wants to ride your arse for being a desirable employee then tell him to blow you and gurgle.. pat him on the head and walk.

Also...let's not forget...

The House is always for sale!

yea law major my ass.

If a boss catches someone discussuing a job offer while at work, OMG. I do not care what's legal or not, but he/she deserves to be fired for stupid.

I believe he meant severence pay vs. workers compensation which is more if you are hurt on the job or something.

entertaining another gig is not cause for firing IMO, especially if the employee was an excellent worker and was a great representative of the company...I would think you would try to get them to stay and maybe even give them a raise, than to fire them.

Good and professional employees are hard to find.

So firing for this reason is vague, musst be more to it...but then again...

seems people in this industry get fired for the most far fetched reasons...no comment after that :upsidedow

A lot of employers don't like emplyees to look for other jobs. I say fuck them! If you're looking they probably suck.

i get offers on almost every trip.

comes with the territory.....if you are paying your employees enough, you shouldnt worry about losing them

Either that or a retarded chimp. The jury is still out on that one. :1orglaugh

Getting an offer from someone else is not violation of contract (or at least not any basic general employee contract that I've ever seen.) But if they entertain this offer and enter into negotiations for salary etc, I'd say that's a good reason to fire them. It's the other employer's right to OFFER it to them, but for the employee to pursue would be grounds for termination as far as I am concerned. If they were doing it purely for strategic purposes (to find out what competitors are paying, etc) and they let their current boss know, then great. If not, I'd say they are being sneaky and get rid of 'em. :2 cents:

I got a FEW offers at the show. My response was "Hell no, I have far too much opportinity right where I'm at" and subject was changed or convo ended.

Now If I had said "Hmmm why don't we meet for lunch and talk about it." That would be 100% fair for Lens to fire me.

If an employee thinks they can make more money somewhere else, then they should first take the initiative to PROVE to their current employer that they ARE worth more. If they can't, then I say take the card, stash it in a safe place, and get ahold of them later.

From a legal standpoint, it depends on where the jurisdiction is. In right to work states in the US, such as Arizona, the employee can be fired for pretty much any reason. Of course those states also have provisions against certain employment policies like no-compete clauses, which make it very easy for the employee to find a new job.

Firing someone for looking for, or entertaining offers for, another job, is quite simply sour grapes if you ask me. Rather than being proud of the employee and realizing the employee's value to the company, if you fire someone on suspicions or maybes -- and we're talking another job here, not suspicion of embezzlement or some such -- then it just shows the insecurity on the employers part. If the employee turned in notice and you told them to go ahead and leave instead of working through the end of the notice, that's not so bad.

Furthermore, as an employer, you can handle an employees departure with grace and class, or you can act like a petulant group of kindergarteners.

Employees should also remember that its in their best interest not to burn bridges with their employers, and after they've left a job, to never say anything derogatory about their former employer, since nothing is more of a turn off to potential future employers than watching someone detail all the horror stories of past employment...

Being totally soft never made anyone any money though.. Business is business, ruthlessness is a part of that business, to a certain degree.. Generally the things that need to be done in business ARE harsh.

That question takes too much thought. Hit me up again after 12 hours sleep :)

Should that have turned me on? I need to get away from the computer for a while. :helpme

Actually if they are on a company trip, they are on company time so no they can't look at job offers then. i think

Yes, at any point in time, aside from that which your employer has paid for/booked for (your eight or however may you work), you have the right to find another job ... again, so long as it is NOT done while on someone else?s dime.

When you were on the ?trip?, did your employer tell you the set terms?
'While in Vegas, you are always on my time' or 'while in Vegas, you work your normal hours'

If the hours were not described to you by your employer than you know, your hours are those that you normally work. Very simple ... their fuck up if they did not state clearly.

As for them firing you on this premise alone - review the employee standards act - I considered that wrongful dismissal!

I am a person of clarity - muddy things (ambiguous) and I will take control and tell you (employer or not) what is what! Or, off to the can for a tub a KY so to be gentle on the dogs ass.

If you have an employee that is there on company time and is putting the word out that they are looking for work then yes, a company has the right to fire them. People dole out job offers all the time to other people and I have yet to hear of anyone ever getting fired for that. It happens all the time. There are always two sides to every story IMO and if you know of anyone that this has happened to, I would seriously consider the other side. I don't know of anyone that this has happened and people have been coming and going for years, although, I'm sure people have gotten fired for less.

Their employess not slaves , if approached at the booth. The right thing to say would be can we speak about this later when I have a break or go to lunch. I doubt anyone here pays over time , just because you pay for their trip doesnt mean you own them 24 hrs a day during that time. Also I love how employers fire at will for cause or not , outsource good people and then expect loyality thats too funny. lol

Here's my take on it..

Although I am an employee, I side with the employer on this one.

An employer pays for his employee to travel to a show, sets him up in a nice room, offers him an expense account to take out clients, and gives him the freedom to drink and have a good time with both clients and friends. During the day the employee's job is to man the booth to answer questions and build rapport with anyone interested in the company.

So if another company is talking to the employee during a show regarding a job offer, I would consider this to be on company time and unacceptable. If the employee took the guys card and called him after the show, fine.. everyone has a right to consider other job offers.. but not on company time.

I don't think it would be just cause to fire the employee, but it certainly would be a reason to put him on notice.

Uhh no one would get fired for entertaining job offers. Unless the precog's are telling someone about this, and we are currently existing in the movie Minority Report. Is this a survey? What's going on?!

The reality of any trade show is simple. Employers are looking for new employees and employees are looking for new employers. Sometimes its not even a conscious thing, I think. I've been to probably 200 trade shows in my life and it's always the same thing.

How the situation is handled is the key here. If you, as an employee, embarass your employer by your actions, then you deserve to be fired, as I see it. However, if you carry yourself in a professional manner, do your job to the best of your abilities and perform as expected, then if I were your employer, I'd sit down and talk with you, if I had heard any suspect rumors regarding your leaving the company, and see where there was common ground. And depending on the scope of the rumors, that would govern my attitude towards how I dealt with the situation.

Many times, in such situations, employers may suspect that an employee is looking for another job -- and that usually stems from the fact that the employer KNOWS the employee is not happy. Hell, if the employee were that happy, they wouldn't be considering another job unless there was some huge gap in pay or status with the new job versus the old one. Miscommunication between employers and employees is probably the number one reason that people exit a company, whether they quit or are fired.

Former employers would be well advised to do the same thing that former employees should do. Keep their mouths shut about any shortcomings or issues with the employee that's leaving -- after all, they were good enough to be hired to work in the company, and you don't want everyone thinking that your judgement as an employer is bad, nor do you want to give potential new employees the idea that if they come to work and leave, they'll find their name dragged through the mud.

Once again, like my grandma used to say, you can never be too gracious or too courteous when dealing with anyone.

Some very good posts in this thread.

My opinion: if you go there working for an employer and actively seek jobs, that's wrong. If you go there working for an employer and another approaches you at the booth or a company sponsored party/dinner and you do anything more than tell them you'll talk to them later and take their card, that's wrong.

However, if you someone DOES approach you, you agree to talk at another time, preferably after the show but at the very least, at a one on one during your "off" time, then I don't see why you'd be fired just for entertaining the idea of a better offer.

If any company "secrets" are exposed, then you're history IMHO and the "new" company should realize how easy you turn.

LOL that is hysterical. First of all, you don't take it from an employee that they are the "best". And why would you not bring your best employee's to the show (perhaps I will ping Mike to ask him seeing that he said it lol). It sounds to me that someone is being fed a lot of horseshit (if this situation is not hypothetical of course). You don't bring half-assed employee's to a show (if you are even stupid enough to employ them in the first place) You bring people that can get business and who know what they are doing.

It's amazing what people can drum up in their own minds, there are a lot of "Legends" in this industry (Legends in their own minds that is). Besides, your best employee's don't get fired for lame shit like that anyway, no matter who the company is. Dead weight is everywhere and what makes them a semi good sales person is the fact they can make you believe they are number one even when they're not, until it's time to prove themselves. I have seen this happen a lot.

If people AREN'T trying to hire your employees away from you then should worry.
It's kinda like if you have a girl and nobody tries to hit on her when you take her to a bar. She either isn't as hot as you think or people are afraid of pissing you off.
Keep your employees happy and they won't cheat on you. :2 cents:

you better believe they do. expecially if they've got no contract with the current employer.

If you can get fired for recieving other job offers I would have been fired 8 times already :winkwink:

I'm bringing this thread back because it has a lot of very important thoughts. Nobody mentionned the caliber of the employer....Superdave mentionned some employers offer incentives to avoid these kind of situations. But how about jackass employers who give contradictory orders based on their drug dependancies and paranoia from their self involved universe? Bastards like those people should perhaps either move on or NOT hire other people to run their businesses. Someone like Steve Lightspeed seems like an anomaly in this industry, he has a solid reputation.
Another issue with firing employees based on this reasoning [entertaining offers] is the sour grapes, missing vacation pay and commission pay up until the date of severence. Too many morons run companies from hard work, fluke and abuse of employees and governent policy(In Canada at any rate). Ripping off employees at any turn is often justified with solid benefit packages that are initially subsidized by the government and offered at group rates. Seen it many times. Private industry blows. :2 cents:

ok

...........

:upsidedow