3rd party processors - how safe? - GoFuckYourself.com

baycouples · 01-05-2005, 11:12 PM

I'm wondering if 3rd party processors like CCbill and iBill are going to be a thing of a past soon? in the last couple of years Visa/MC implemented bunch of new rules and I think the whole AVS industry went down the drain.

How sure are we that CCBill and IBill will not get canned by Visa/MC sooner rather than later?

And don't give me "we make too much money for them" - becuase we really don't.

TheMob · 01-05-2005, 11:17 PM

are you sure we don't?

baycouples · 01-05-2005, 11:19 PM

Not on the grand scale of what they make all together...

Webby · 01-05-2005, 11:27 PM

baycouples:

Quote:

3rd party processors - how safe?

They never were safe :-)

TTP's hold all revenue until the time they decide to payout. They also hold rebilling rights.

They also offer no indemity in the even of their failure to pay or if they ceased to trade or are liquidated/bankrupt. The transacting bank who may hold funds at the time of a liquidation has no responsibility to TTP clients, - only to the processor or their liquidator.

Overall? It stinks :-)

Hinc · 01-05-2005, 11:31 PM

Yeah...a merchant account of your own is by far a better choice...only thing is, it aint too easy to obtain.

football6969 · 01-05-2005, 11:57 PM

Wouldn't bother me if they all went down the tubes. After one of the big three dumped me and I lost all my precious recurs, I wrote all my own scripts. Signup, recur, member account management pages, the works. Took me two years, but the big3 can kiss my skinny ass now. Fuck that 15% skim for a script that can disappear overnight.

Sure, there will always be an entry level market for the big3 to capture, but once a webmaster gets smart he should write his own scripts and save that big15%.

With my own scripts in place, my chargebacks are near non-existent (4/mo) and my recurs are nearly 50% of member base.

(hi Eric, how's biz ?)

baycouples · 01-06-2005, 12:31 AM

I hear you, football6969. I'm just wondering how many people feel that CCBill and iBill may be going away at some point....

Biz is good :-)

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 12:55 AM

I don't know about the *Bills, never did like them, but I will say Paycom will be around forever. They provide great service, front/back ends, etc. They are serious in staying around, and probably worth the 15% for some, the other two are not.

(same here, Eric)

baycouples · 01-06-2005, 01:12 AM

Yes, but my point is that Visa/MC regulations can close CCBill and iBill down at any time...

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 01:28 AM

I see, didn't realize that. What about Verotel, what affect does MC/V have on them ? Anything different ? I once had an account in Panama with a corp there, worked fine for a while, then they stopped MC and was Visa only. Then it all went to shit like the movie Blow. Hell, I was with Lloyds of London for a while, talk about a ripoff....would make the IBill deal look like little candies.

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 01:34 AM

PS: What exactly are the MC/V regs that can close the big3 at anytime ? I'd like to know....

chupacabra · 01-06-2005, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by football6969

PS: What exactly are the MC/V regs that can close the big3 at anytime ? I'd like to know....

as far as we can determine, the regs consist of the fact that they can change the rules, standards and requirements at a whim, and w/ little to no warning..

baycouples · 01-06-2005, 01:42 AM

What Visa/MC can do ( and it actually will make sense ) is to dis-allow a merchant to sell FOR other merchants. So, if you want to accept credit cards - you would have to have your own merchant account.

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 01:56 AM

Baycouples

Do you mean the factoring clause ? Isn't there (hasn't there always been) another method that the big3 can use to comply with MC/V ?

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 02:18 AM

chupacabra

Of course, we are at MC/V regs mercy at any given moment, and merchant banks are getting harder and harder. Yet, like Baycouples proposes (I think), there is going to be a change in the horizon. May/will take 5-7 years as things go, but will happen.

Look at the lawsuits Amex and Discovery have filed. It is only a matter of time before the monopoly MC/V has is broken....the same law firm that broke Microsoft is representing Amex.

And like MC/V, once/if Amex wins their case, they can too change their mind and allow Adult sites to process again. We can only hope........

football6969 · 01-06-2005, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Webby

baycouples:

They never were safe :-)

Overall? It stinks :-)

baycouples

I think Webby gave you the best answer amongst our discussion.

Webby said:

-They hold all revenue until they are ready to pay...

-They hold all rebills if things happen to go wrong (can't pay above)...

-and They assume NO RISK.

In other words, yes while they do process for you, they-

-keep all your money until they decide to release the funds...
-if they decide to drop you all your precious recurs are gone..
-and if the above, you have no recourse.

That is why I bit the bullet and spent $30-40g writing my own scripts and bypassed them. Fuck me once, fine. Fuck me twice, my error. Never again will I let another company withhold my funds, erase my rebills, cease my processing overnight, and leave me no recourse.

Never, never again.

(Never means: Never.)

01-05-2005, 11:12 PM	#1
baycouples Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	3rd party processors - how safe? I'm wondering if 3rd party processors like CCbill and iBill are going to be a thing of a past soon? in the last couple of years Visa/MC implemented bunch of new rules and I think the whole AVS industry went down the drain. How sure are we that CCBill and IBill will not get canned by Visa/MC sooner rather than later? And don't give me "we make too much money for them" - becuase we really don't.

01-05-2005, 11:19 PM	#3
baycouples Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Not on the grand scale of what they make all together... Last edited by baycouples; 01-05-2005 at 11:21 PM..

01-05-2005, 11:31 PM	#5
Hinc Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,577	Yeah...a merchant account of your own is by far a better choice...only thing is, it aint too easy to obtain. __________________ webmaster @ adultlist. com AdultList.com - Directory Listings, Advertisements, Hardlinks Loasex.com - Directory and old school TGP - taking submits A few sales/opportunities: High Quality Guest Posts For Sale Network of Aged sites for sales. Get in touch on the email above for info.

01-05-2005, 11:17 PM	#2
TheMob Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: 2006 Posts: 8,584	are you sure we don't?

01-05-2005, 11:57 PM	#6
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	Wouldn't bother me if they all went down the tubes. After one of the big three dumped me and I lost all my precious recurs, I wrote all my own scripts. Signup, recur, member account management pages, the works. Took me two years, but the big3 can kiss my skinny ass now. Fuck that 15% skim for a script that can disappear overnight. Sure, there will always be an entry level market for the big3 to capture, but once a webmaster gets smart he should write his own scripts and save that big15%. With my own scripts in place, my chargebacks are near non-existent (4/mo) and my recurs are nearly 50% of member base. (hi Eric, how's biz ?)

01-06-2005, 12:31 AM	#7
baycouples Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	I hear you, football6969. I'm just wondering how many people feel that CCBill and iBill may be going away at some point.... Biz is good :-)

01-06-2005, 12:55 AM	#8
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	I don't know about the *Bills, never did like them, but I will say Paycom will be around forever. They provide great service, front/back ends, etc. They are serious in staying around, and probably worth the 15% for some, the other two are not. (same here, Eric)

01-06-2005, 01:12 AM	#9
baycouples Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	Yes, but my point is that Visa/MC regulations can close CCBill and iBill down at any time...

01-06-2005, 01:28 AM	#10
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	I see, didn't realize that. What about Verotel, what affect does MC/V have on them ? Anything different ? I once had an account in Panama with a corp there, worked fine for a while, then they stopped MC and was Visa only. Then it all went to shit like the movie Blow. Hell, I was with Lloyds of London for a while, talk about a ripoff....would make the IBill deal look like little candies.

01-06-2005, 01:34 AM	#11
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	PS: What exactly are the MC/V regs that can close the big3 at anytime ? I'd like to know....

01-06-2005, 01:42 AM	#13
baycouples Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,341	What Visa/MC can do ( and it actually will make sense ) is to dis-allow a merchant to sell FOR other merchants. So, if you want to accept credit cards - you would have to have your own merchant account.

01-06-2005, 01:56 AM	#14
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	Baycouples Do you mean the factoring clause ? Isn't there (hasn't there always been) another method that the big3 can use to comply with MC/V ?

01-06-2005, 02:18 AM	#15
football6969 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 41	chupacabra Of course, we are at MC/V regs mercy at any given moment, and merchant banks are getting harder and harder. Yet, like Baycouples proposes (I think), there is going to be a change in the horizon. May/will take 5-7 years as things go, but will happen. Look at the lawsuits Amex and Discovery have filed. It is only a matter of time before the monopoly MC/V has is broken....the same law firm that broke Microsoft is representing Amex. And like MC/V, once/if Amex wins their case, they can too change their mind and allow Adult sites to process again. We can only hope........