This is true jimmy.........Nice words

Hun,

I do agree that some of the dialer prices are way too high for the surfers. I do know of a few good people working on that. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Do you also list other sponsor program's flaws on your site? Like hidden or hard-to-find recurring charges on pay sites?

You're not saying that some pay-sites don't screw the surfer by trickery and crooked sales tatics are ya?

I'm not tryin to harp, just seein what I can pick out of your brain. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Brian, I did have a thing on that a while back indeed... but the dialers are a little less obvious. With creditcards people have to fill in things. They're kind of alert already when doing that. A lot of people install and run dialers without knowing what they're doing. I still see a lot of dialers that use terms like "download this free program"... I don't think that's good business..

Look, I'm not saying all advertising is bad. I'm not warning people to stay away from sponsors. I'm telling people to be alert. And if paysites are running an honest business they shouldn't have any problems with an alert visitor...

pete dog said "So go to this page: http://www.viper-x.com/livefeed.htm
And Click on Live 4."

well, amsterdamn xxx doesnt officially want that to be free, take a look at this exerpt from their signup email

Interclimax "You must use the links below in the URL you specified as your members area."

Additionally, I had to provide a url from which the links should originate and a login/pass to the members area of my site.
"to ensure they are behind a password or adult protected site..."

Just thought I'd clear that up about the amsterdam feeds.

As far as the cen link you posted Is that also meant for members and geared for upsells also or is it intended to be totally free?

btw Im alias
nice to meet u all, Go FUCK Y0`SELf

------------------
[email protected] http://raunchyrabbits.com

[This message has been edited by alias (edited 04-22-2001).]

Thanks for the info Alias. Can you post the url where I can read about those feeds?

Peace,
Pete Dogg

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Daily Naked

Free Auto Updating Top Referrer Lists

http://interclimax.com/
there are specific terms but the feed that was being used on the viperx site is supposed to be in a members area.

their free feeds are here http://interclimax.com/promo.cfm

All we need is a browser feature that turns off opening new windows automatically -- I usually surf w/ javascript turned off because I hate mouseovers and popup windows... I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the different javascript functions can be disabled -- I know some browsers like Opera let you disable javascript referrer info and wow I just found an option "allow documents to create windows" -- anyway Opera is a very tight browser -- I highly recommend it.

As for exit consoles -- i think most surfers know how to deal w/ them -- it's nothing new, but the infinite loop ones are real dangerous -- I sometimes I got hate mail when a surfer followed a link (and got tricked by a freehost redirect) and got trapped in an endless loop of exit consoles -- then their computer crashed and windows died and they supposedly had to reinstall windows. This sounds impossible and stupid, but I've heard of this on more than one occasion. Also it used to be easy to stop an exit console -- just press escape -- but now the computers are faster, the connections are quicker -- MSIE can open windows fucking faster than you can close them ;)

------------------
-- thefly.net

You'd be susprised how few people even know ALT-F4 closes a window... so when a full screen console pops up they're just trapped in it. I get many reports from people that have to reset their machine to get out (simply 'cause they don't know ow to get out of the consoles otherwise)...

i have the speed problem - 512k cable modem and a 600mHz chip = more pop-ups than i can catch by hitting keys!
Actually, i might just go and check my sites' banners and see which of my sponsors give pop-up hell...

Well, I must say I was shocked to find out Hun is not excepting ARS anymore. I have been submitting galleries every 4 days and have been waiting and wondering why I have not been getting listed. So I try to make a differant gallery and submit again, which now I find out has been a waste of my time. I am a single mom ,new at this business and at this point in my life I can not afford to pay for hosting. I plan on staying in this for the long haul but I need my free hosting to get me started until I learn more and would be able to make enough money to cover the bandwidth.
I don't feel that ARS has to many consoles, when I get my linking code I check to make sure it has the 1 tiny pop up that stays in the back and the 1 exit console that has a list of other ARS niches and that's it.
I am VERY grateful of the times I got listed on The Hun, it was the ONLY time I ever got any signups, which equaled to a grand total of $700 for this year. Defiantly not enough money to pay for bandwidth.
I try to make good, clean galleries, and I do pay for my content, or get it from a friend that has leant me some of his paid for content.
Until I get better with HTML and learning what is the best selling niches ( which is always changing) I feel I NEED free hosting and I NEED to be able to get listed on places like The Hun.
I hope this can get resolved soon.

Nadine>

there are a lot of TGP's, you don't need the Hun. If you like his rules submit to him if you don't like them find some other TGP's...

The Hun has too many submissions anyway so he will pick whatever he likes, try to visit some of the sites listed on his site and you'll know what he likes.
http://www.waycoolsubmit.com has a lot of other cool TGP's.

There is no way I'm gonna read ALL these posts, BUT...I can agree w/ The Hun to some extent. He's in a great position to be making the decsion not to include galleries w/ ARS or any other pop-up hell traffic...and doing it in a reasonable manner. He asks that you send surfers to a FPA (sorry if I'm repeating). Unfortunately after waiting a month you find this out, but now ya know. I think it's a very reasonable request. Plus, this could help you w/ the SEs is you do it right.

I did visit an ARS site tonight tho. I think they got the picture and have chilled as far as what I remember. Their conversions have been shit lately, but hopefully this will change (please...they WERE my best spnsor dammit!). The Hun is right...give honesty and recieve honesty. Surfers aren't the dumbasses they used to be. And that's why people visit The Hun. Hell! I used to be one of them! That's when I decided that I need to make my $$$ back. LOL.

http://www.online-magazine.com/survey.htm#education <-- You got it backwards, it's the people with less education that get access to the net now.

------------------
wiZd0m

Maybe I should rephrase that. Experienced porn surfers aren't the dumbasses they used to be. I mean, we all know that TGP surfers know NOT to click on banners for the most part, right? That's why MOST TGP traffic blows. I don't even know who to submit to anymore for TGPs for decent traffic besides maybe The Hun & AL4A. Where else do you actually amke any $$$ from? And with them ya havew to deal w/ a shitload just to get a few! I'm not putting TGPs down by any means cuz they ARE sending a shitload of FREE traffic, but it a'int easy....

Try mine eRrock http://www.fortunepussy.com

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wiZd0m
&lt;font color="yellow"&gt;http://www.fortunepussy.com&lt;/font&gt;

"The Hun is right...give honesty and receive honesty. "

Give free porn and receive no money.

Is this not true?

Can someone convince me that a surfer at a TGP who has access to 3000 free pics can not blow his load by the time he view even 25% of those pics?

Is the only way to blow your load by video?

I mean for years peoples main means of porn was through magazines. Most TGPs pics are good enough to jerk to.

So what's the deal? When are we gonna cut back on what we offer?

I don't know what everyone is always complaining about. I think that we are in the best business that internet has to offer. If people don't want to get those pesky popups and consuls, all they have to do is go to the internet options and turn the script off. Simple as that. As for the kids fighting on this messege board: REMEMBER, THIS ISN'T A GOD DAMN JOKE, PEOPLE COME HERE TO LISTEN TO OTHERS ABOUT SUGGESTIONS, AND YOU GUYS JUST RUIN IT.
As for the hun and his problem with lots of advertising, well, you can't bake a cake and it eat too. Good luck with your fight. http://www.bestsexhost.net/jizz/

Give free porn and receive no money.

Is this not true?

Can someone convince me that a surfer at a TGP who has access to 3000 free pics can not blow his load by the time he view even 25% of those pics?

"Is the only way to blow your load by video?

I mean for years peoples main means of porn was through magazines. Most TGPs pics are good enough to jerk to.

So what's the deal? When are we gonna cut back on what we offer?"

When people stop making galleries and submiting them then it stops

I imagine as long as people are making money from TGP's they'll continue to operate (i'll continue my postings so long as the money i make is worth the time i put in)

------------------
Adult Revenue Service- with Maxcash I converted 1:3600 (mostly to Kara's)
but with ARS I convert 1:375 or better with SAME TGP TRAFFIC (I can prove with screen shots)!
Join with this link and feel free to email me for help/info(I'll respond quickly!) :)

We have to use some free to entice them to the different paysites but this horrendous amount on each gallery is worthless to us as well as the pay sites. Guys in Lens' postion need to make it mandatory, 10 and thats max or yer outta herrre!

That guy in the other board doing 50-100 thumbs to drive traffic to his non-adult is the culmination eh?

[This message has been edited by Gemini (edited 04-30-2001).]

Many seem to have forgotten how this all started out. My site mainly linked to paysite previews. After that paysites started building galleries. And later still affiliate programs came and paysites started giving away content to promote their site. If paysites want to get rid of all free porn that's given away then stop affiliate programs. Simply. But I think their site will have a real problem getting big if they do that. Some things just are the way they are. Example: plains would fly a lot cheaper if we'd cut gravity in half. So should we start whining about gravity? Yeah, right... I don't think so... Complain all you want, it's not going to make a difference. Sites like mine have been around a long time. And they will be around for a long time to come as well.

Oh, BTW, this discussion was initially about advertising ethics, not about if free content hurts this industry.

And if this thread didn't accomplish anything then at least it got me a DVD player ;-)

I have to agree with TheHun with the pop up consoles. I for one hate them. I'm actually glad that a good businessman such as TheHun is at the "top" or our industry, and has enough power to help moderate some of our industries problems....or at least minimize them. Obviously he can't do everything, but his traffic is a powerful tool and most people who utilize it know this.

Before i get flamed, this is coming from a paysite owners point of view. I've been running my paysites for the past 5 years since the beginning. They've kept me working at home and have provided me with a great living. Sign ups were easier to get back in the old days when pop up weren't spamming the surfers browser. If it wasn't for the old days of a no bullshit web, i probably wouldn't be here right now.

As far as the tgp thing goes; I *WISH* TheHun would make a rule that only "teaser" galleries be allowed. Meaning, you can show tits, etc, but no private parts (or very minimal). Imagine all the great marketing you can do with THAT kind of teaser. Ratio's would increase drastically...as they use to, back in the day.

So in essence your still giving people there free porn, but at the same time, they're really not getting ALL of it. If that were case, then TGP traffic would be the best converting traffic around (imagine that) ...maybe even better then search engine traffic.

If that we're case, TheHun would truly be a front end showroom to all the paysites that exist on the net. All the surfer has to do is choose his or her taste or niche. Everyone would convert.

Before, back in the day, a surfer comes to a paysite and see's teasers of what the site has to offer. The sufer may see a certain girl he wants to see more off. You have no idea how many emails i use to get when new sufer would joined, and then ask where the gallery is to a certain girl that they saw on the front end of our paysite.

Conversions we're great because of this. I believe that TGPS have had a slight affect on ratios.

Unfortunaltey, i think most TGP have gotten out of hand. Everything is free now, and even though it hasn't killed paysites, we have suffered slightly. You can go to movies sites and download a huge 10 meg video for nothing. And these guys expect to convert there traffic, and then on top of that, complain how bad TGP traffic is. I don't understand the logic of this.

Hun, you are right about TGPS not affecting paysites since paysites offer more then anything else. But i think the argument is TGPs have made it slighty harder TO convert. Why? Cause of the galleries. Show only teaser galleries with no genitilia, and believe me, they will convert.

My idea, or dream is more like it, is this-

-TGP's = The Showroom (teaser galleries only) Which is, going back to the car analogy, the front end of a huge amount of cars to buy.

-Trial Memberships = test driving the car (or niche) of your choice.

-Trials converting to monthly membership = the new car you just bought. One happy customer.

Where this business gets lost is somewhere between the TGPS and the Trial Memberships.
Everyone wants to convert.
TGP's want you to convert cause they need you to post to them. You, the submitter, want to convert cause you need the money. The paysites want you to convert cause they need the sign ups. So it's actually a very effective and great cycle that works well for our industry.

But then again, the cycle loses it's "VALUE," and the cycle of things gets lost and sloppy when then surfer see's full naked galleries.
Show them teasers..thats all. And that is a big solution for all of us. You won't need pop ups and bullshit after that.

Unfortunately, getting the top TGP webmasters together to only allow teasers would probably be impossible and not likey...i guess i'm dreaming. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
But it was a nice thought.

Anyway, my 2cents

[This message has been edited by Crutch (edited 05-01-2001).]

Hun - How close are you to placing ARS on the blacklist anyway?

So that I don't submit something you will reject in a month or so..

Thanks for the listings..

At the moment new submissions are not allowed. Pending submissions are being declined at the moment. All galleries that were already placed will not be deleted over this though.

Crutch, thanks for the input. I agree with you. You're right. Linksites will undoubtly cost some signups for the paysites. And it's true that a paysite will have to work harder to push itself above the quality of a free site. There was a time when some paysites were pretty much what is listed on all the link-sites at the moment. People know what's out there, so the ones charging have to come with exceptional quality to make people stick. But to bring up a huge cliche... the strong will survive. There is a lot of competition out there. As well for the free sites as for the pay sites. I'm sure there's a lot of money to be made for everybody in this industry. But I'd love to see some more respect for the people that visit these sites. Some people don't seem to care about 'em one bit. Fine with me, but I'm not going to support that. We're all dealing with customers. Any business that treats their customers like pieces of filth will in the end ruin it for themselves.

I mean, it's not a big secret that I'm not doing all this to start a holy crusade in favor of free porn for the mob. That's bull. I also do this 'cause sites like mine are making money on bannerclicks. And so is 80-90% of the people that read this board. Most depend on signups or clicks. And if clicking banners results in consoles and shit, people will stay away from clicking 'em... This is not only about protecting the customers, this is about understanding how markets work and how treating customers right brings money in the drawer...

Exactly right Hun, I have been involved with several businesses thru the years, Both good and bad. The bad are gone and the good go on.

The thing about the net is, alot of webmasters can't 'see' or 'hear' the "customers" so they don't give a darn. The thing they don't realize is there is NO difference in a real customer or a cyber customer. They all have money and if you offend one you will sink in the ooze that you yourself created. And undoubtedly lash out at others as the cause of your demise.

We agree with limiting the sizes of galleries at any rate. But when the cj owners make their little stash and die off, who will care? The surfers won't and neither will the tried and true webmasters (since cj sites are OUR nemesis in the grand picture)

As far as tgp's like thehuns?? EXCUZA, he would not or could not exist if the Paysite Owners did not give out the content in order for US to make the galleries to submit to HIM!

They are using us to sell for them and profiting us to do so. He in turn is helping us make the sales and profiting as well.

Hmmmmmm, oddly sounds like the normal factory to middle man to sales point to seller to me.

Go hun! We will miss the ARS acceptance with you since we made sales there but we have others. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif Now if we can just figure a shortcut thru that 4-6 week wait thing... lol

Crutch, good post. I agree.

Hun?
"Example: plains would fly a lot cheaper if we'd cut gravity in half. "
I honestly think that analogy doesn't apply.

I agree with the fact that pay sites shouldn't be popping up windows.
They are supposed to roll out the red carpet when we send them a guest.


As far as CJ sites, I think they are fine, if they stay CJ sites and not try to be fake TGPs.

Peace,
Pete Dogg

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Daily Naked

Free Auto Updating Top Referrer Lists

[This message has been edited by Pete Dogg (edited 05-01-2001).]

Thats just it Pete. Cj's have to imitate free sites or tgp's to get ANY traffic and then when the surfer finds our cleaner sites they operate under extreme wariness and all of it rolled in to one makes them afraid to pull that piece of plastic.

I can't say as I blame them. Hundreds of annoying little things all over the place and I'd trust that person with my cc #?? The average surfer doesn't know that *WE* don't see their cc.

Paysites like ARS with popups, well one would be ok persite, telling of new additions to the site and maybe the date they were added etc. But they should cookie the person to keep the darn thing from always loading unless the popup has been updated. Easy enough to do and wouldn't take them more than what? 10 mins while they did the morning coffee?

They'll end up burning themselves just like join4free is now. Updating the site would take about the same time it takes to build those dumb things and add the code to pop em. (Doesn't mean the whole site changes every time, but a page here and there)

Sheesh most surfers think its been updated if you just scoot things around or change bg colors. lol

Hun,

I'm really curious about your view on the 'teaser gallery' idea from my post above. Any chance on ever incorporating that rule?

It would do so much good for our industry, And as i said, tgp traffic would turn into the best coverting traffic around. Well, at least your tgp would be if your the only one doing it. Heck, everyone who posts would convert and be making money.

You would continue to get your galleries, the surfers still get there porn, the submitters get paid and the paysites get there signups. You can't ask for a better system.

Maybe if you do it, the rest will follow. It can't hurt anyone...it can only benefit.
Do you think you would lose traffic if you did only allow teaser galleries? Just curious about your view on the idea.

ps
feels a bit weird to start my post with Hun.. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

Huh, you should be grateful that Hun is good enough to admit your galleries.
At least he really praises quality.
Lately my posts have been often declined for the reason "not enough nudity"!!!
TGPs got very insolent these days. Why should bother submitting to them at all ...

crutch i love the idea...playboy quality teaser galleries..with very little nudity. If other TGPs were to start doing this, would quickly follow.

------------------

• Unriz3n
• AdultClips TGP - No Recip, Quality Gallery Posting
• [email protected]
• ICQ - 108240203

yeah, i have had the 'not enough nudity' before (not from the hun - he just sends a confirmation then never puts my damn shitty galleries up http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/tongue.gif ) the whole damn exercise is to warm the customer up - not to get him off.

I am still going to blame the content providers on this though - if they stopped giving really good pics out, then the surfer would have to pay to see.

One of my sponsors supplied me with a load of images (enough for 3 or 4 galleries) well over 300k a pic - mr.lightning would have a fuckin heart attack if 10000 viewers started having a flick through those galleries! I had to reduce them to about 40k, mainly because i don't think surfers need that sort of quality pic while free-surfin - they should be paying for 300k pics.

I'm dumb..I dont even know what the hell ARS is! LOL

I just wanted to be a part of the LONGEST THREAD IN GFY.com HISTORY lol

Peace http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

------------------
"We are all porn stars , just some of us are brave enough to do it on film!"
http://www.plauder-smilies.de/yellows/kiss2.gif Jamie's Stable

ARS = Adult Revenue Service Babas. Used to own a lot of niche sites. Now they just handle the money end and let the Canadian Corp that bought the sites do the porn. lol

First I have to disagree with the CJ's are the Nemesis.

When I was a Porn surfer a long time ago, the only porn sites I found were CJ's, and it became apparent to me, real quik, the only safe place with quality, was in a Pay Site, and I bought a membership to Karas, I later decided to try surfing again and found some TGP's. I then canceled that membership, and never signed up to another site again. I now own several sites and certainly dont need one.

I believe TGP's work - to a point, But I have asked many friends who surf porn if they ever bought a membership, and everyone said no, and that they probably never would, and with the amount of Free High quality Hardcore Images and Movies out there I cant say I blame em.

I also own a small TGP, so I am just as responsible as the next guy, and it will stay a TGP, just not quite as freindly as it used to be. But my next couple of projects are CJ's that Look like TGP's http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif, so they get scared to click on gallery links and learn that Banners are Freindly, gallery links are not. and will hopefully come to there senses and learn that if they want quality then they will have to Buy a Membership! I made all my sites super friendly and safe to begin with, Now I say Screw em! - they can look at a couple free pics, look at my Banners, adv text links, or download the dialer, and if there not in the buying mood, Send em to a trade and the exit console, That surfer now payed for it self two ways - the exit, and trade for another who may buy, if not, more pennies off the exit and another one to trade. Now thats what I call Marketing http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

Hell, some poeple will soon be Blowing there surfers dicks, at this fucked up dream of MY SITES QUALITY! mamby pamby bullshit...

Pay Sites should be Quality! Free sites should be teasers and nothing more, and I dont mean console hell like a cj, but not 25+ high quality hardcore pics and movies either. Read the article below, you will see just how sensless this is.

This New York Times article wiZd0m posted in another thread, shows the rest of the Internet is Wizeing Up to giving out free Rides. Its time we learned to at least come to our senses on how much is too much.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/01/technology/01FREE.html?ex=989985600&en=9b8497cdaccdf05e&ei=50 01&partner=YAHOO

Now I dont agree with no free samples But, when I get declined by several sites for a 1 standard banner 2 textlinks and 18 Good Quality softcore image gallery, (Extremely Clean Looking) with the response of "to much advertizing" then this shit has gotten out of hand. And yes, I too have gotten the "not enough nudity" decline with an ebony gallery with tits, ass, and crotchshots? WTF?

And I really like the "Dont focus on Advertizing" for the rules on some sites, Hell, I understand Banner and Link farms, but What the Fuck is that shit, what, like do this for fun??? Soon they will only be accepting links to inside the members area...

All I have to say to these, high quality whores is; Pucker Up! So your surfers can Slide it in...

My $.02 out...

Great post Cam.

Hun - President?

It is not so bad that Hun is mastering the use of Vetos! It seems that people believe more in the Hun than in the Am. President. Just bet, who will impose a veto on the free hardcore in the net sooner? The answer is: probably none of them because they afraid of loosing the Electorate!
What will you DARE to answer, HUN?
And pls, start a new thread about this http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif this one is getting too long now.

PS: I intend to write to Mr. Pr. of the USA too, asking him HOW he will protect my children from becoming pervert-nymphos in the future after swallowing "tons of free hardcore porn" now. I cannot lock all the computers in my hometown!

PPS: However, I will keep my faith in The Hun, `cus politics lie and suck BUT
when uncle "Hun posts, everybody listens".

Msg from a fucking anti-feminist webmistress with a 7-year old son.

Hmm.. Just tried to submit a gallery with Max Cash ads on it to the Hun and got a message saying I was using a sponsor that was not allowed and to visit this thread to read why.. I know why, just thought others might find it interesting. My brother submitted earlier and said he saw a list of a bunch of sponsors such as ARS, Max Cash, CEN, etc.. but when I submitted there was no list, just the link to this thread .

Will there be Clif notes on this thread? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

Go to Curacao for a few days and the Huns getting a dvd.

Good point but...

People will not be turned away from clicking banners. They will eventually learn that pop ups should be avoided. They will learn that ALT-F4 closes those things and will ignore them completly. They will not however, be turned away from ads.

Porn has very little crap (ie. pop ups, blind links and so forth) when compared to other types of sites. Surfers who are there just to get the free stuff will always be around and will never click ads. Others will be interested in knowing if there is anything better then free stuff and will click if or if not they got a pop up the last time they clicked.

So in my opinion it would be wrong to ban such a well established company for trying to make an extra buck.

This thread is like a vampire...
Just when you thought it was gone,
it jumps up to bite you in the ass.

Yes, understand and agree.

what the fuck are you doing bumping an 18month old thread for loser

but surfers remember that the next time they think about clicking a banner...

then they won't click again

I also use ARS because the convert the best, but I use the console free option so that there aren't any popups from them. The option costs you $5 because I only get $30 in stead of $35, but I earn more money like this : )

piss If I had noticed this was so Old I would not have posted

...and this thread was worth bringing back for what reason?

Yip still a few.. Not near as bad as it was 1 or 2 years ago..:1orglaugh Oh I'm not one of them... I just pop 1 or 2 Under 1's.

Doesn't ARS have console free tours available?

There's the answer to that one:
Console Free is Here!!!
ARS webmasters now have the option to send their traffic through the ARS affiliate program and not have to worry about their surfers getting hit with any consoles.

Probably not when this thread was started.

This is soooooooo very true... Webmasters take a lot for granted... Most 80% plus of surfers don't know shit about a computer and I mean nothing. I had a woman that lives up in the mountains bring me her computer... She had NO ideal what was wrong. She has XP home version. All I did was turn it on and at the screen went to safe mode... then rebooted... she paid me and went back to the mountains.