Whats the average retention for paysites now?

I guess there are more TGP webmasters here then paysite owners?

3 months and real amatuer content.

Reality is out.

Neither dude. Just surfers.

2.5 Months

Fuck so I'm going to have a ton of surfers at the jungle bash

was 3 like 2 years ago..but now looks like a 2 month retention ratio

we are focusing on both

what else?

I have a real awsome idea that has the surfers participating. but its going to take months to launch I think it will be big.

I'm going to start putting a porn banner in my sig instead of a link to an affiliate program. Why waste the possible joins I could make!
WG

2 months for porn, 4 maybe 5 for adult personals

Re-bills...

Since I started 30 day no re-bill on my sites and at $5 more than 30 day re-billing.. This has taken off.

Today surfers join a site a month so they can't forget to cancel.. Offering a 30 day no re-bill option has worked for me...

this goes to show that sending to PPS pays better since you get it up front.

Really.

See some shit like that will keep surfers rebilling.

Thats why amatuer sites, and i mean REAL amatuer sites rebill.

Single girl sites where the model has live webcam days with the members where they tell her what do to, REBILL like no ones business.

But thats surfer participation again.

Based just on content, something that acutally looks unplanned works great.

It's just a shame there's so many REAL amateur sites about. Of the ton that claim to be a tiny % actually are and in most the girls are so obviously not amateur. It's part of the problem with 95% of the current reality style sites.

Of the few real amateur sites about most are unfortunately single girl which is a shame. Although sometimes great sites that can retain like crazy, they can also be very unstable and there's little worse than having to change shit loads of links 'cause a girl has a new boyfriend and he told her to quit.

Yea but have you seen something like privateivy's site.

GO there right now and look at the tour.
Although she is a "pro" look how amatuer it looks.


And that mandyxxx ( i think it was her) drama in which she quits is one in a million.

We have about 40 single amateur sites with no monthly rebilling, we have a signicant number of members who have been buying some ladies for 8 years, they might leave for a while but they return. The average would be hard to guess.

We are! Its not like it was when I first started though. If you are avaraging 2 months on every sale you are doing good. Im at 2.12 avarage right now.

Here are a couple examples from this months rebills.

Sydney Teen Cutie


Brittany Blu

Seems like good content with daily updates.

Duke

So I guess surfers just won't stay anymore no matter what

Another thing that is keeping them from staying is that there are so many paysites out of them.

Surfers dont want to keep their eggs all in one basket

So I guess exclusive content really doesn't matter.

all this hype

the problem is to much free porn out there. even if its exclusive Why would I pay to Rub one off when I can for free.

we have shot ourselves in the foot and it's starting to grow gangrene

we have a 6-7 month average retention... you should try our 50/50 partnership ;)

{sarcasm}

we have about 4 months, with some member staying for over a year (but then again, our member's areas are not a copy cat of everyone out there.

honestly.. Roger.. alot has to do with quality of traffic these days...
sure mailers, review sites, tgps.. etc can all send great amounts of joins.. but are those joins 'professional porn surfers' who konw the game of join, jerk, cancel... I want the 45 yr old male getting online with his first aol account... or the guy who will buy off of an exit console over that high conversion traffic anyday... :2cents:

You do pps right?

Thats where its going to hurt you.

Sites are retaining as much as possible.


Its also the free stuff out there.



Put it this way.

Five years ago i bought music cd's.


Now, i have limewire.

is this based upon those who go from trial to conversion... to next month...

or all joins??? b/c I really doubt all of your joins ave 4 months... just a hunch I could be wrong...

lmao.. you are kidding right??? sites used to retain in the 70% plus range back in the days.... NO site is even close to that these days... especially revshares.. if a revshare retained that well... they would be even more of an idiot for not doing PPS... as for the CD's... exactly.. why buy the cd when you can get it for free.. or for pennies on the song... same with porn.. why pay for it.. when you can get it all for free... or for a $1 or free trial...

Surfers are learning the system... soon 1 month will be the norm

No wrong.

Im saying for a sponsor doing $40 pps and surfers retaining for a month.
Its going to suck for that sponosr unless they shave.

Thats why most sponsors in order to stay profitalbe are either going to lower pps to $20 or offer 50/50 revshare.

Surfers still retain at niche sites or sites with unusually good content, or unsually good value, or preferably all 3.

Gee, $39.95 sites with average quality fuck videos don't retain anymore, what a surprise.

Also offer a 30 day non-recurring at a higher price. Its amazing I get a significant percentage of single month signups when the surfer could easily have signed up at the lower recurring rate and cancel.

Which proves that surfers just don't trust porn sites, probably fucked over by too many in the past. Having recurring only signups is sending a subliminal "fuck you" message to the potential buyer.

I've seen a steady increase in retentions at some sites over the past 24 months.

stats remote shows my ccBill as being slightly less then one month for rebills over all the sites I promoted.

what sponsors pay $40 these days.. ???

as for the rest of the post.. you just have to know how to manipulate your numbers... everyone likes to use shaving as the excuse for not understanding the pps model.. sure there are some crooked sponsors out there.. but there is a reason there are large PPS companies who have made the majority of the $$$ over the years.. and why they do 80% of their biz between each other....

revshare is great if you do not believe in your product enough to think you can keep the member around.. as there is no risk... don't believe when people say.. oh .. I want you to get rich too.. b/c that is the scam ;)

and walmart is going out of business b/c they are a megastore and not a specialty store...

let me get this straight.. take someone who says they hae a 6 month average retention.. say at just $30/month... they want to pay $90 for a join... i'm not greedy.. just pay me $30... and you can get rich... so now tell me how a revshare is better? sure there are always exceptions... but i'm just talking in general.. for discussion sakes

edited.. so to be more general... ;)

i would guess like three, well at least two

Totally I?m just trying to prove a point that webmasters can't make more with rev-share over PPS.

I?m not a gambling man I want my money up front. IF I want to gamble I?ll play poker.

the day this happens is the day all tgp's censor there content.

Never.

I totally agree

PPS models are the 2005 solution

I do it all PPS, Rev-share, PPC exclusive sites, mega sites etc.
we know how to convert traffic.
always looking into new ideas and models.

check out our Paid trial program

Paid trial program has a new way of billing instead of a $5.99 trial for 5 days reoccurring at $35 we have reversed it. One time initial set up fee of $34.99 and $5.99 a month reoccurring every month there after. This way we can have a High payout and not worry about chargebacks etc... Built to convert and retain!

TCG does for one.

And as for maniplutating numbers?

IF you pay $40 on a $39.95 join and the member quits after a month how do you profit?

ok simple math.. so not to bore the rest.. say you have 10 joins..
you pay $40 on a $39.95 join... and just 20% or two of those go through another month.. you just made $80.. (now this is a very very very simple answer) but just so you understand...

and if you want to add trials to that.. then it gets more complicated.. its a numbers game...


what up Rog... hope to see ya next week

Guess again.

Homegrown Video measures its retention in YEARS, not months.

Amateurs are just smarter about what is real amateur and what is fake. When you deliver what they are looking for then they stay around for ever...

"Homegrown Video is the longest running series in the history of porn" - Newsweek

I agree FAR-L, different retentions for different business models and application of site content & how a site is designed makes a HUGE difference.

Cookie cutter, paste together paysites operating off a business model from 1996, is gonna leak business and get themselves retired early from the business.

oh and we can offer revshare as well... but if we went to an all revshare model we would probably loose around 80%+ of our traffic...

this is why if you can grasp the math on a pps model you can get tons more traffic with which you can make a whole lot more $$$

I want the money up front.. i'm afraid of what could happen.. look at i bill.. etc

again.. always acceptions to the rules... as I don't doubt your business.. but again.. why leave all of that money on the table.. if you have proven years of retention.. why not flood your program with thousands of joins.. make mulitmillions.. and retire???

I am so damn happy to see you telling it like it is again without having to filter the truth!

Happy new year!

100% respect and please forgive me for being such a thorn....

Gregtx: Let me respond to this and your other post...

First of all... there is not some sort of special numbers mojo that people need to know in order to run a pps and there is not some sort of lack of knowledge required to be a successful revshare... if there is make sure to tell Lightspeed he might want to pack up his bags and go home.

I have seen the extreme inadequacies of PPS first hand. I know many of the companies that are on the boards acting like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread are not doing well financially today yet they cling to the notion that PPS will somehow return them to their former glory. It is not going to happen.

The numbers just are not there. I know how to convert traffic. I know what upsells do or don't work. I have great conversions and outstanding retention. There is nothing so incomprehensible about PPS. It is all about the numbers, and the most important is the bottom line. Do I want thousands of joins that put me under due to chargebacks and other inherent problems like negative cash flow? No.

We are all about slow and steady wins the race. We are doing very well. We started the year with having to maintain a site with thousands of members that we were NOT getting paid on. We still kept those members happy while we relaunched. And we are doing better now in less than a year than we did in almost 5 years with someone who claims to be the best pps out there.

2005 will be the year when the smoke from all the hot air clears and people look at what is really going to make them the most money.

(Remember... I am not a revshare fan either so don't typecast me that way)

Finally... why would I want to retire? I love my job!

Then why doesn't this simple gfy poll reflect that.

I totally dissagree and we have just about every model and I speak to other program owners with models we don't have and they all say the same 2 months manybe 3 on an average of cousre you will always have people who forget or stick around longer.

Oh really so if I have your content in my members section I will retain for years?

Wait I do have your content you must have the good stuff on the top shelf.

Just busting balls nothing personal.

I haven't read the rest of the responses but I'd have to agee this this! This is 100% true. Every now and then I get the "urge" to surf and I can easily go to any MAJOR tgp and rub out out a few times for free. I've seen a MAJOR difference and I've been in this game for 5yrs with exclusive. I've got other sites which I won't speak about here, but for the most part it's webmasters (yes us), giving away fucking 10minute and 20sec mpg/mmv for a sale. It's not like it was

what a crock - talking about retention and free porn. the guy has joined the site, he's proven he's not a free porn leech. if he books out it's because the site sucked or he downloaded everything and he's off to the next site to do the same. trials should go the fuck away, we need to re-educate surfers, set new ground rules - at least get 25 bucks out of them. So the guys who go from site to site with their downloaders at least return a profit to everybody.

free porn has zip to do with retention, the guy already knows there is lots of free porn out there, he's looking to find either better stuff or less hassle getting at it. it does affect the total number of joins though. and the number of joins are down, if they are indeed down and nobody has confirmed this, the pie is probably bigger but the numbe of slices just keeps growning and growing , because of big affiliate programs poisoning surfers with scams and shitty paysites for years. Talk to a guy on the street some day or the guy sitting next to you in the bar about porn paysites. Odds are he'll tell you about how he was fucked over or a friend or cousin was or 'I can get all the porn I need for free'.

retention is down because the surfers are smarter and the number of choices for them to join good quality paysites has mushroomed.

i really wish the credit card processors would make this kind of data available, they don't need to identify the sites/programs - but it would be nice to see these figures broken down according to niche, exclusive vs licensed content, amount of content, etc

I sell exclusive content but I am honest, I don't claim exclusive content is some magic bullet. Exclusive content matters to many small and medium webmasters these days, they respond to it - it allows some small people to be quite successful - nothing like a big affiliate program - but a one or two guy operation can make nice livings. Take a look at FTVGirls, AllInternal, the single girl site successes - lots of today's webmasters come into this biz now with alot of experience as porn surfers, they care more about the sites they promote than the people who got into the biz betwee, 97-2000.

it is depressing, even the best sites out there are between 2 and 3 months retention - maybe a few get above 3.

not really good news for anybody, big affiliate programs or small operators, or affiliates.

one thing i'd like to know is the number of returning members the high quality exclusive content sites get. nobody ever talks about the 'returnees' - the guys who join a site, like it for a few months, cancel then a few months down the road type it in and join again.

i really don't think there's a site out there i'd join - and that worries me, cuz i don't consider myself much different than the average surfer. there's just too much porn period - it dilutes everything.