Maybe this is a dumb idea, but Why don`t the real big TGP`s like the Hun and the rest, incorporate a few tgp2 galleries in their daily listings, and see what kind of responce they get, see if their traffic declines?I doubt it .
Why oh why do we all give away so much free porn (alot of it is probably being accessed by children)

LOL @ kenjin
your last statement made me roll http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif

competition i guess.

After TGP2 there will be AC1 (Adult Content 1) which will have only 1 rule: Everybody will pay!

Wouldn't it be nice?

(In AC2 even webmasters will need to pay to access their own servers)

btw, I don't live in USA, but wouldn't be cool if adult webmasters join efforts to make some kind of "moral coalition" and then ask congress people to stop porn by asking for AVS or credit cards? I think it will eventually come, so why don't you push things a little?

And for the TGP/TGP2 discussion: I'm the webmaster at TGP2.net but I still use TGP. The webmasters of TGP2 usually run TGP too. What does it means? We KNOW what's the actual state of things, and we know that it's very difficult to make a living off TGP2 exclusively. But at the same time, most of us are working with a vision of future and that's why we are using so much time in TGP2 related projects. Because there's room for new things and new concepts. But is there anything to be done in TGP? I doubt. When a TGP webmaster asks gallery makers for
* 15 pics minimum
* Paid host
* High Quality pics
* No more than 2 ads
that webmaster is thinking on one thing: "please give me content so I can have a running site and don't even bother on trying to make some money. I'll (I am) avoid(ing) it by any mean possible". And then, the webmaster who is so "interested" in his surfers, all of them just a "community of friends" hanging at the webmaster's site, this very same webmaster will make the surfer download a dialer which will charge the surfer up to 8 dollars PER MINUTE. I know there are exceptions to this, but they're the least.

Let's take The Hun or Worldsex: they don't have dialers, but they rely on the affluence of surfers coming to their sites, which is big due to the content they have, that way they sell ads to people interested to reach that shitload of surfers. Now, let's say I'm a webmaster AND a surfer. That makes me your best friend, then why don't you give me a very good position at your TGP for free? Don't you love surfers? I'm a surfer too!

I'd go on and on, but the main message is the following: There are no enemies, there are different strategies and all of them are leaded to make more money

Peace


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Harvey
The TGP2 redirector :)
In Harvey we trust!

Hey at least you're honest http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

Ok, I'll answer some questions that were put here:

Are TGP players making less now than last year, are revenues still decreasing?
Does it make good business sense to give less free pix, send more visitors to sponsors and lower bandwidth bills?
Me personally has to answer 'no' to making less. I make more than I did last year, revenues are still going up. It is good thinking to give less free pics, more visitors to sponsors and lower bandwidth, but it's naive (in other words, not good business sense) to try to do that with thousands of TGPs out there.

Do you want your sites bookmarked by bandwidth sucking, no credit card using, free picture hunting leeches?
No, I HAVE (and want) my page bookmarked by people that indeed come back a lot, but many of 'em buy a membership every now and then. 'cause they trust my site and they trust what's advertised on there. I'd much rather have 2,000,000 people that bookmarked my site and that every now and then buy a membership than a business purely based on newbies that sign up once and then eventualy find a site like mine ;-)

Does it matter what your counter says?
Yes, it does if you're selling advertising on your page.

Who is really interested in what your checks are every week and every month?
huh?

From my perspective TGP2 offers a better revenue option. More eyes to sponsors (for list owners) and less bandwidth used (for galley builders)
I agree on the less bandwidth, I don't agree on the more eyes. Still, 0.5% of 50K is more than 1.5% of 2K...


Wolfshade. I don't know what gave you the idea, but I'm not against TGP2's (I prefer calling 'em CJ3) just because 'cause they would operate in my field. And that's because they simply don't. I make money 'cause I have all these bookmarkers. CJ3 is targeting newbies, 'cause once they found a "real" link-site they won't go back to CJ3. Simple as that. It's two separate markets, they're not operating in my field at all. And I'm sure one will never follow up the other. I'm not against 'em at all. I think it's naive to think it's a follow-up for TGP's though. Business-wise I don't think it's a very good idea. But I'm not against 'em. that's a misconception from you. I never stated anything along the lines of me being against TGP2's...

I always build businesses to serve clients. My clients are my visitors. As long as the visitors come I know the gallery submitters and advertisers will also come. The other way around it won't work. Advertisers are interested in sites with a lot of visitors, visitors are not interested in a site with a lot of adversisers...

Harvey put it in his post as well, I think he made a very strong point. It's two different strategies...



[This message has been edited by The Hun (edited 10-18-2001).]

Yes Hun, I'm always right so you'd list all my Terra galleries http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/biggrin.gif j/k (or not?)

Correct, thats why I like dialers, because children dont have credit cards.

How else are you going to get money from kids surfing porn?

Why is Hun calling TGP2 a CJ?
I see this common misconception by many non-tgp2 people.

Lets get this straight....There is no bullshit allowed, just like on your sites..blind thumbs and such are not allowed. Everything is basically the same except 5 pics maximum.

We are not in the business of getting surfers off and having them jackoff to our free pics. If that is happening then you are doing something wrong (ieregualer tgp's) Once they make that mess they are not going to get out a credit card.

Our goal (and it is working) with TGP2 is to tease the surfer into "wanting" to join our paysites or sponsors.....Not letting him freely whack his willy at our expense.

I know the BIG tgp's like thier counters to spin.....
But honestly the traffic sucks,Taking 40,000 surfers to achieve a sale is unacceptable, and is causing the free porn market to crumble.

The only market that's crumbling is the one were people live in a dream. TGPs are making more money than ever if bottom line net revenue is the goal. I say that for myself and many other people I know in this business.

If you have someone's attention you can sell them something. Period.

Nothing wrong with TGP2 - it's just living in a dream world is all.. saying you make more money on it.

Ah Moose, I love it when you do those marketing 101 seminars. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

My butt is itchy.

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http://www.theheadless.com/randomjunk/xp-btnbnr1.gif
60% RECURRING!

Take heed. If you don't understand this, then you probably don't understand much of the net, or your views don't stretch long term.

Amp, good luck with your butt, man. Be sure to check with Boneprone...he might have something for the itch :-)



[This message has been edited by On-top (edited 10-18-2001).]

As a long time TGP owner, I'd just like to say that I am NOT anti-TGP2. I have a lot of respect for Colin, Moose, and a lot of the people involved in this thing. I do not feel threatened by TGP2, I don't consider it an organized effort to put me out of business.

I just see some flaws in the system, as it stands today. Number one is traffic. You guys don't have it, so how will you get it?

1)Will you spam the search engines?
That would be retarded - that traffic should NEVER see a pic, and be sent to a sponsor ASAP.

2)Will you trade with regular TGPs?
Counter-productive. Even if you trade with a site like mine (loaded with trades), the surfer will see the extra content and either bookmark(doubtful in my case), or get slammed into a circle jerk of numerous other TGPs. Highly unlikely he'll find his way back to TGP2.

3)Will you buy the traffic?
Well, even 404 traffic from a free host isn't cheap. And it's shit, mainly coming from... guess what? TGPs. So maybe that isn't too hot of an idea, either.

I have surfed the TGP2 boards occasionally. I have surfed TGP2 sites. I see potential headaches out the ass with gallery pages that allow pics on pages. As an old time TGP owner, I remember the reason most of us killed that rule. Cheaters. Many webmasters will fuck you 8 ways till Sunday, damn near every chance they get. I never want to review gallery pages with pics on HTML again. Too easy to change that shit once listed and fuck around.

I was considering building tons of my own TGP2 galleries, grabbing one of those free traffic trade scripts, and jumping and seeing what happens. But honestly, I think that gallery building time would be better served making SE pages.

Now don't go thinking that I feel TGP is the be all and end all. I'm not blind. I see sign-up ratios dropping, and I also notice how more and more, TGP traffic is best used for "bullshit" - personal ads, anything with the word "free" in it, and dialers. And I'm not here to hold hands with surfers, either. I can't compare to the Hun, or Worldsex. I'll never have a site that clean. I'm not wired that way. I tried it, and I sucked at it. I was taught years ago that the surfer was my enemy, and to either ship him to a sponsor, or dump his cheap ass on somebody else. That theory got me started making money, and it hasn't failed me since.

"I was taught years ago that the surfer was my enemy, and to either ship him to a sponsor, or dump his cheap ass on somebody else. That theory got me started making money, and it hasn't failed me since."
-----------------------

I think you had the same teachers I did Steve. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/wink.gif

The surfer is not your friend, and you aren't in this business to make friends but to make money.

Marketing is what makes money, not throwing up a ton of useless pages and watching the counters climb. There are so many people in the business now compared to a year, two years, three years ago, that it's getting to be a much smaller piece of the pie for the ones that do market well -- then you add all the 100, 200 pic galleries out there that aren't selling anything in reality to anyone and its just that much harder to make any money.

The bottom line is simple -- make the surfer pay for porn and he will. Give it to him free and he'll keep taking it free.

Tell me this then

Why does my non-free porn traffic (gets no free porn whatsover HAS to pay for it) does 1:40 - 1:45

Where as my free porn traffic does 1:1000 and costs are about 60% of the sale by the time bandwidth is paid for.

What you are not understanding here (and i have said it before) Is we are selling to males (me being one i understand) If we are getting FREE pussy.....we will not pay for it. If the Free pussy is taken away or limited....males will jump through HOOPS to get to it.
http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

I used to be a big TGP poster up until about a year ago..look around at some of the resource sites(netpond,topiche,weboverdrive), you will find tutorials i have written on the subject teaching the gallery biz.But in the last year the traffic has gotten so horrible that it is not worth it and something needs to change.The only thing keeping it alive is the CHEAP bandwidth.It has dropped 60% in the last year right alongside the TGP gallery posting revenues.


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http://www.xswealth.com/xsban.jpg

I get traffic to my tgp2 from regular tgps and my bookmarks are increasing daily. Surfers simply like quality. I'd bookmark a site with 10 nice galleries over a site with 1000 shitty ones.

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• Unriz3n
• AdultClips Links - Submit your freesites here!
• Galleries 4 Ever TGP2 - No Recip Listings
• AdultClips Webmaster Resources - Info 4 U!
• [email protected]
• ICQ - 108240203

Moose, I'll take a little time to try to answer you best I can. (like you are really waiting LOL)


Because they are the BEST kind of surfer. Give me opt-in e-mail addresses, AVS surfers, and paysite members, any time, over any free site traffic. They already let you know they will whip out the plastic (maybe not the e-mails, but they convert much better than avg). I said it, I agree with you - TGP traffic has gone down over the past 12-16 months. It was not great to start with, it sucks worse now.

1:1000 isn't even that bad these days. Which is sad.

Oh, I understand it. It is why I say I like the concept of TGP2. I don't like to give porn away. I don't like seeing 30 pic hardcore galleries. I fucking hate seeing expensive content like Fresh Photos on free sites. I wish I could snap my fingers and make 95% of all other webmasters go away. I think hardcore is bad for sales, and I don't think webmasters should even show pink in the pics. Tease, get hot, get em to a sponsor.


I'd have to agree. I think that overall, it is harder to get sales. Where I used to count on getting 20 sales/day, I now wonder if I will get skunked. I also know who you are, and I respect you as a professional. I'm not saying that you don't know what you are doing, and that is the reason for the sales drop-off.

I would like to see if TGP2 gets rolling. I don't know if my ideas of traffic building would be embraced (basically, 3 clicks and good riddance). I see a lot of talk about bookmarkers, and quality. Those words make me nervous. I think TGP2 could have inflated numbers just as quickly as CJ, CJ2, and TGP if guys made a commitment to trading. I guess the question would be if trading like that would lower these click thru/sales ratios I keep seeing everyone beat their chest with.

More traffic on the TGP2 sites, more surfers in the system, but will the ratios hold up?

Unriz3n -
I see a few TGP2 guys feeding their sites by submitting squeaky clean TGP galleries with links to their site. This is still TGP traffic. Why don't you guys just trade with TGPs? At least to prime the pump.

All in all, I would expect a huge change over to TGP2 the day you see TGP2 sites doing over 100K/day. You keep hot shit ratios, and build up traffic, you will see most regular TGPs flip. I know a lot of guys that have 100k/day+ and can't seem to make enough money off the site. These days, with cheap bandwidth, it's easier to just make 5 shitty TGPs, and get your money that way.

"1:1000 isn't even that bad these days. "
---------------------

If there were ever a mathematically sound argument for TGP2 you just made it Steve.

For years people screamed conversions, conversions, conversions, now they just scream 'look at my counter stats'.

Personally I liked it better when they were screaming conversions, at least a check came in the mail with that.

http://bbs.gofuckyourself.net/board/smile.gif

Steve,

I'm really sick of my TGPs. B/W sucking low profit margins, ech! You and I both have to keep moving hosting companies to keep a living flowing from TGP.

72% of my signups this month are from my TGP2s and I have 200k TGP traffic! Now, my TGPs are converting really shitty compared to what they normally do so maybe it's just a bad luck month. I'm looking elsewhere.

If you have any cool ideas for TGP2, email me. Could always use your well thought out
advice/criticism/etc.

[email protected]

Steve,

As far as embracing your style of trading. Guess how *I'M* trading!

1-2-3- bye bye!

Colin spoke!

That makes me feel better. As long as that isn't frowned upon, I can see no reason not to do this. I know there are a lot of webmasters out there with extra trading scripts, or extra domains on their servers. Maybe some of the CJ guys who branched into CJ2 and TGP to make better money will get involved soon. If that happens, this will take off. I know I spoke to two guys on ICQ about it last night. I think the floodgates will open once people hear from a trusted friend how it kicks ass.

I've got to move some domains off of the server that is allergic to UCJ. But I should be ready in about a week.

I think that if The Hun and the other TGP guys agreed to change their rules and to convert them to TGP2 rules then the surfer would not have any more the choice.Everyone would be gaining !

Just my newbie 0,000001 cent. ;-)