A Serious Question By Juicy R. Links Re: US Govt.

[Juicy D. Links]

Day after day I open my mailbox , i receive alot of "shit" ie: crap such as refinance you home , and shit like that.... Now this is unsolicted shit. But...USPS gets revenue from this. Presorted First class mail rates depending on volumes are 14 cents and lower not the usual 37 cents.

K now lets bring this scenario to the internet. Your emailbox. You get crap day in day out , now people are getting sued arrested and the works...

Now snail mail spam has been going on for ages.

Email spam for a few years.

Do I enjoyed getting 50 emails telling me I cant get hard? Nah not really but what can you do...

So lets discuss the dfference between email and regular direct snail mail marketing they call it... is there one?

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Email costs the end user & ISP money

Snail mail costs the end user no money

Spammers are passing the costs on to the people that didn't want the spam to begin with.

[BVF]

I got tired of getting the same bulk mail shit in my PO box that I was getting at home so I filled out a "do not mail" form and it drastically cut down that shit in my box...In fact. I was checking my mail the other day and another man was pulling out a boatload of bulk mail out of his box and he was complaining about how he gets the same shit at home while I pulled out nothing but a check from Pimproll. I told him to just walk into the post office and fill out the same form that I did and he wouldn't do it. He just walked to his car.

So the difference between bulk mail and spam is that you can opt out of bulk mail and you really won't be getting it anymore.

[sumphatpimp]

I feel your pain.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

Email costs the end user & ISP money

Snail mail costs the end user no money

Spammers are passing the costs on to the people that didn't want the spam to begin with.

false
Warez cost a lot more to any ISP than spam
disinformation from mainstream media
spammers pays their bandwitch bills too :P

Snail mail cost way more to the end user
sorry, but here in my country, the gov own the forest, so we all lose from anything made up with paper

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by BVF

I got tired of getting the same bulk mail shit in my PO box that I was getting at home so I filled out a "do not mail" form and it drastically cut down that shit in my box...In fact. I was checking my mail the other day and another man was pulling out a boatload of bulk mail out of his box and he was complaining about how he gets the same shit at home while I pulled out nothing but a check from Pimproll. I told him to just walk into the post office and fill out the same form that I did and he wouldn't do it. He just walked to his car.

So the difference between bulk mail and spam is that you can opt out of bulk mail and you really won't be getting it anymore.

i know a shitload of spammers who would not bother using a DO NOT MAIL directory, why pay bandwitch for people who doesnt want your stuff anyway ?

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

false
Warez cost a lot more to any ISP than spam
disinformation from mainstream media
spammers pays their bandwitch bills too :P

Snail mail cost way more to the end user
sorry, but here in my country, the gov own the forest, so we all lose from anything made up with paper

Warez is user initiated, spam is not.

In some countries, where users pay for their bandwidth by the meg, and not by the hour, you're costing these people money for something they didn't want.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by BVF

I got tired of getting the same bulk mail shit in my PO box that I was getting at home so I filled out a "do not mail" form and it drastically cut down that shit in my box...In fact. I was checking my mail the other day and another man was pulling out a boatload of bulk mail out of his box and he was complaining about how he gets the same shit at home while I pulled out nothing but a check from Pimproll. I told him to just walk into the post office and fill out the same form that I did and he wouldn't do it. He just walked to his car.

So the difference between bulk mail and spam is that you can opt out of bulk mail and you really won't be getting it anymore.

this do not mail thing is at the po?

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

Warez is user initiated, spam is not.

In some countries, where users pay for their bandwidth by the meg, and not by the hour, you're costing these people money for something they didn't want.

i wouldnt mind remove them from my lists if they use the remove
but anyway, i only mail double opt-in stuff

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

i wouldnt mind remove them from my lists if they use the remove
but anyway, i only mail double opt-in stuff

Some spammers just mail you more if you try to opt-out, cuz then they know you're active.

A large percentage of spammers also hide who they are, and use shit like

C14!i5 ch34p!!

Atleast be legit about it...the last fliers I got in the mail were for Pizza, and they sure as hell didn't spell it p1$$4

[skillfull]

ah and if we are talking about spam
i would prefer to receive good designed spam like usual snail mail stuff than some bu7 v14gr4 h3r3 msg :P
so i think the only good way to stop spam
keep the CAN-SPAM law like they are
add a DO-NOT-MAIL directory with severe consequences
remove all the fucking filters

problem solved

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

Some spammers just mail you more if you try to opt-out, cuz then they know you're active.

A large percentage of spammers also hide who they are, and use shit like

C14!i5 ch34p!!

Atleast be legit about it...the last fliers I got in the mail were for Pizza, and they sure as hell didn't spell it p1$$4

no

every decent spammers will respect remove

why the fuck they would want to add heat to their hosting for mailing people who told they dont want to buy anything from them ?

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

no

every decent spammers will respect remove

why the fuck they would want to add heat to their hosting for mailing people who told they dont want to buy anything from them ?

Heat to their hosting? Most people are using proxies so their hosting is never known.

[Pornwolf]

Did you factor in the trees cut down due to mailbox spam as well as the general pollution that effects us all? All the paper that is created from cut down trees and bleached fibers doesn't do our enviorment one bit of good.

The actual cost of spam is negligable when you consider the amount of bandwidth bought by the corporations for daily use remain constant with or without spam. Spammers pay for the bandwidth that sends most messages out. Companies and users recieve it on pipes that are already installed, arranged and paid for.

A company that needs a 100mb Cogent pipe is going to buy it anyway. Spam in the email box has very little, or NO, effect on that fixed cost. It's a very colorful way for the antispam contingent to spin spam into a money sucking monster that it's not. So try the, "It costs corporations money" argument again on someone who doesn't know the truth.

The only cost is in lost productivity. But if you have ever worked in a company you would know that more productivity is lost just staring at the wall daydreaming between 9am and 9:45am when a person just gets into the office. Let's not talk about the water cooler or the coffee room. Plenty of lost time there. What about the extra 5 or 10 minutes added onto 1 hour lunches? There's no news report on TV talking about 'The Scourge Of Business, LONG LUNCH BREAKS!"

Get real.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

Heat to their hosting? Most people are using proxies so their hosting is never known.

the landing server of the url they use
not the proxies they use

if the site they spam is down, why would they spam this url ?

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

the landing server of the url they use
not the proxies they use

if the site they spam is down, why would they spam this url ?

I know lots of people that will host a landing page and not care about heat. The place I colo in even has it in their User Agreement & SLA, that 'spamvertized' websites are MORE than welcome and abuse emails will be delt with by them, as long as the origin IP is on their space.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Did you factor in the trees cut down due to mailbox spam as well as the general pollution that effects us all? All the paper that is created from cut down trees and bleached fibers doesn't do our enviorment one bit of good.

The actual cost of spam is negligable when you consider the amount of bandwidth bought by the corporations for daily use remain constant with or without spam. Spammers pay for the bandwidth that sends most messages out. Companies and users recieve it on pipes that are already installed, arranged and paid for.

A company that needs a 100mb Cogent pipe is going to buy it anyway. Spam in the email box has very little, or NO, effect on that fixed cost. It's a very colorful way for the antispam contingent to spin spam into a money sucking monster that it's not. So try the, "It costs corporations money" argument again on someone who doesn't know the truth.

The only cost is in lost productivity. But if you have ever worked in a company you would know that more productivity is lost just staring at the wall daydreaming between 9am and 9:45am when a person just gets into the office. Let's not talk about the water cooler or the coffee room. Plenty of lost time there. What about the extra 5 or 10 minutes added onto 1 hour lunches? There's no news report on TV talking about 'The Scourge Of Business, LONG LUNCH BREAKS!"

Get real.

great post here

im definitly pro-spam
like it or not

the only reason spam is blamed for all kind of shit in the mass-media is that the corporate greedness doesnt want everyone able to mail us etheir clients money for any products they dont sold
:costumed-

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

I know lots of people that will host a landing page and not care about heat. The place I colo in even has it in their User Agreement & SLA, that 'spamvertized' websites are MORE than welcome and abuse emails will be delt with by them, as long as the origin IP is on their space.

so what do you think about AOL blacklisting access to complete C block of ip reported to host spamvertised sites ?

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by skillfull

the landing server of the url they use
not the proxies they use

if the site they spam is down, why would they spam this url ?

they are on bulletproof hosts offshore.

[Juicy D. Links]

Originally Posted by skillfull

no

every decent spammers will respect remove

why the fuck they would want to add heat to their hosting for mailing people who told they dont want to buy anything from them ?

not really , they just hit you harder with a different ad next time. Now they have verified your email address since you put it on the remove list

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

so what do you think about AOL blacklisting access to complete C block of ip reported to host spamvertised sites ?

It's their network, they're allowed to do with it what they please.

If you're allowed to block an IP on your home router because you don't want your kids too see it - AOL is allowed to block an IP on their router cuz they don't want their 'kids' to see it.

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by juicylinks

not really , they just hit you harder with a different ad next time. Now they have verified your email address since you put it on the remove list

And that's what's wrong with spamming.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by juicylinks

not really , they just hit you harder with a different ad next time. Now they have verified your email address since you put it on the remove list

you know this is totally false

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

It's their network, they're allowed to do with it what they please.

If you're allowed to block an IP on your home router because you don't want your kids too see it - AOL is allowed to block an IP on their router cuz they don't want their 'kids' to see it.

so you will lets anyone else than you telling you want you can see on the internet ?

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

you know this is totally false

No it's not, I know lots of people in the mailing industry that do it

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

And that's what's wrong with spamming.

that people like that who give a bad reputation to spamming, im 100% with you on that one

but that far from being a majority of the spammers

[brand0n]

the gov gets paid outta snail mail. if they could work out a way where you paid them "x" per uce you can bet it would be 100% legit. they cant figure out a way to pull that off so they work hand in hand to help stop it.
wtf is this smile about?

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

No it's not, I know lots of people in the mailing industry that do it

i know a lot of sponsors in the mailing industry that will term you for that, and a lot mean a vast majority

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

so you will lets anyone else than you telling you want you can see on the internet ?

filtering has been around for a long time my son - if you use AOL and don't like it, switch ISPs. It's a competitive enough of a market that you can find another. AOL is doing it for the greater good of their network - they have to protect the masses.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by brand0n

the gov gets paid outta snail mail. if they could work out a way where you paid them "x" per uce you can bet it would be 100% legit. they cant figure out a way to pull that off so they work hand in hand to help stop it.
wtf is this smile about?

the gov is like legal organised crime
never trust any gov

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

that people like that who give a bad reputation to spamming, im 100% with you on that one

but that far from being a majority of the spammers

I currently get roughly 250 spam messages per day. Roughly 50 of them have an opt out message. I'll opt out of all of them tomorrow - do you think I'll get 200 the next day? Let's find out.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

filtering has been around for a long time my son - if you use AOL and don't like it, switch ISPs. It's a competitive enough of a market that you can find another. AOL is doing it for the greater good of their network - they have to protect the masses.

false

AOL do it for greater profit
that what they are, like any business including mailers...

AOL is the greatest base of spam clients

[Veterans Day]

Lord knows I have lost plenty of legit mail I was needing. What about the yahoo-hotmail end users, the not so bright individuals who have not attended to their email box for awhile, how many legit mails have they missed due to the spam which has rendered the mailbox full. This type of thing never happens with the post office, if you leave for vacation once your mailbox gets full the mailman does not throw out the remaining mail. The spam arguement will never cease to exist.

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

false

AOL do it for greater profit
that what they are, like any business including mailers...

AOL is the greatest base of spam clients

There's nothing wrong with them being in it for profit either. Big fucking deal - they're launching lawsuits against spammres, big fucking deal. Just remove all AOL email addresses from your database and move on.

If you're allowed to mail, and break can-spam law, or other spam laws, AOL sure as hell is allowed to block your IP's and sue your ass. Don't be a hypocrit

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

I currently get roughly 250 spam messages per day. Roughly 50 of them have an opt out message. I'll opt out of all of them tomorrow - do you think I'll get 200 the next day? Let's find out.

im using the same emails addies since 1999 or something liek that

i use the same addies for every sponsors i use, i posted it more than 1k times on a form, i opt-out of every spam i get

i got less than 5 spam a day, seem like it worth it at the long run...

maybe not tomorrow, but for the long run, you will see a decrease...

[Juicy D. Links]

Aol has a "white list" which upon approval you can "spam" away with rules.

So yes Aol makes money from it also

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by Veterans Day

Lord knows I have lost plenty of legit mail I was needing. What about the yahoo-hotmail end users, the not so bright individuals who have not attended to their email box for awhile, how many legit mails have they missed due to the spam which has rendered the mailbox full. This type of thing never happens with the post office, if you leave for vacation once your mailbox gets full the mailman does not throw out the remaining mail. The spam arguement will never cease to exist.

i must admit its the only valid point against spam

[Andrew-at-ENet]

Originally Posted by skillfull

im using the same emails addies since 1999 or something liek that

i use the same addies for every sponsors i use, i posted it more than 1k times on a form, i opt-out of every spam i get

i got less than 5 spam a day, seem like it worth it at the long run...

maybe not tomorrow, but for the long run, you will see a decrease...

I'm willing to put money on this. I'll gladly keep track of spam #'s for the next month - and on Monday, I'll opt out on all emails that have an opt out message. In fact, I'll opt out everyday from messages that have an opt-out message.

Let's see about this one

[BackToMine]

The article details how the spammers handle the 200,000-plus unsubscribe requests they get each month. Seems that LOTS of geeks actually cross their fingers and click those remove links. And, surprise, surprise, the spammers usually ignore the unsubscribe requests.

Do Unsubscribe Links Stop Spam?

Do Unsubscribe Links Stop Spam?

Spammers, Scammers, Hackers, Pedos = Gas chamber

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by juicylinks

Aol has a "white list" which upon approval you can "spam" away with rules.

So yes Aol makes money from it also

yeah i know this, i mail double opt-in so i know hwta you're talking about

but fact is they want to see their users spend their cash on their sponsors, not the spammers one

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by BackToMine

Do Unsubscribe Links Stop Spam?

Do Unsubscribe Links Stop Spam?

Spammers, Scammers, Hackers, Pedos = Gas chamber

slashdot is full of antis

i wouldnt trust a source like that

try it and see by yourself

[MrJackMeHoff]

Originally Posted by Andrew-at-ENet

No it's not, I know lots of people in the mailing industry that do it

I dont.. Anyone who does that is a complete idiot.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by MrJackMeHoff

I dont.. Anyone who does that is a complete idiot.

you are so right
95% of the people talking about the bulkmailing industry doesnt have a fucking clue about what they are talking, its liek the security industry in worst

[brand0n]

please hit reply with your current email in this formatt

"[email protected]"

thank you.

[skillfull]

Originally Posted by brand0n

please hit reply with your current email in this formatt

"[email protected]"

thank you.

you are speaking to who ?

[Rochard]

The difference between junk mail in your mail box and spam in your inbox is that the US Goverment makes money off of it. If the Goverment could make money off of spam it would be prefectly legal.

Think abot all of the fucking trees kill to send junk mail. What a waste.

[WarChild]

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

The actual cost of spam is negligable when you consider the amount of bandwidth bought by the corporations for daily use remain constant with or without spam. Spammers pay for the bandwidth that sends most messages out. Companies and users recieve it on pipes that are already installed, arranged and paid for.

A company that needs a 100mb Cogent pipe is going to buy it anyway. Spam in the email box has very little, or NO, effect on that fixed cost. It's a very colorful way for the antispam contingent to spin spam into a money sucking monster that it's not. So try the, "It costs corporations money" argument again on someone who doesn't know the truth.

Having worked in managment in a large IT department, I can tell you first hand the costs associated with spam are not negligable.

[Penthouse Tony]

Do not snail mail list.

[sean416]

I'd have to say one of the major differences is the quantity. I dont get 1000's of flyers everyday. but I get 1000's of spam email a day.

[SleazyDream]

i can opt in for non addressed mail and I won't get any.

i also don't get 5000 sail mail spams a day.....when is something considered out of controll?