The Hun

More and more galleries get declined 'cause of their counter. Sextracker, Hypercounter, all use blind ads as a counter button, all linking to banner farms. Sure, they have to make money, we all do, but in almost every link-site-rulebook it says blind advertising is not allowed. That also goes for the counter buttons. Many times they resemble thumbnails or buttons. And many times they're placed as the first thing on a gallery, or right below the galleries so people click on 'em. Which is why the counters do it of course. But with blind ads?

Might be time to take some action against this. This topic has been brought up before and I know many people agree with me on this, but somehow nothing has been done after the past postings. A lot of submissions to my site get declined 'cause of the blind counters. I'm sure many other link-sites do the same. Might be something to think about

oscer

I have not even thought about this ?

you think they get a high click thru ratio ???

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boneprone

whats your rule of thumb? Do you take galleries with a sexlist or sextracker on it?

Keev

I agree with the hun, I think the use of invisable counters is the ideal way to go, or use your log files...

boneprone

and if you are not allowing trackers is your bot seacrhing for trackers on the galleries submitted upon review? If so how does it tell the difference between a standard tracker and an invisible one?

Ive actually had people ask me about this before if the large tgps are now scaning to see if a tracker is on the gallery to decline it.

[This message has been edited by boneprone (edited 10-13-2001).]

Keev

Good question BP. Would it pick up the invisbale counter as well?

boneprone

the reason I ask is because I dont put the counters on the galleries I submit to people. However I do use the refferers code in the gallerey-s I submit to so I can track my refferals, and the referal code has no invisible icon like the standard tracker..

But would the bot confuse this top refferes list tracker with the standard icon tracking counter?

Ron2k1

Do you think many people will click the small sextracker button if it's been put on the bottom of a gallery? I don't think so.

Only problem might occur is long loading times, since some counters are using lots of jabascript coding

boneprone

ya know what im talking about?


IE sextracker.. You have two trackers.
The counter, and the top refferers tracker..

The actual counter tracker has the icon, however the reffereals tracker does not..

So will these submission bots block out a gallerey even though they dont have the blind link icon out? I really dont see how the bot can tell the difference between the two? Especially if they are both sextracker.

boneprone

I really dont think people will click on that shit.. However my opinon doesnt matter..

Im asking the rule setter.. In this case Im asking the hun. No question wheater it is right or wrong to ban the blind link trackers, im just asking how does the bot differenate between a blind link tracker, and a simple referal tracker with no icon?

[This message has been edited by boneprone (edited 10-13-2001).]

SixNine

You guy's are some night owl motherfuckers!


SixNine

boneprone

you to. What the hell you doing up? Just get back from the titty bar also?

The Hun

JavaScript is executed once a gallery is completely loaded, so it doesn't matter if you put it on the bottom or on the top of this gallery. What I'm hoping to get to with this post is that counters will stop using blind banners. I came across a couple of galleries today that had very blind counterbuttons on 'em. I already banned most banner-swap programs 'cause they're piled up with blind ads.

I don't think I will be removing galleries that use visible counters, that would be going way too far. I just hope the counter companies find a way to advertise honestly and make money at the same time.

I removed Hypercounter and WebSideStory (that last one hurt, 'cause I used 'em since day one) 'cause of their blind buttons on my site. Sextracker have different buttons for the first 3 sites listed on their page. Websidestory used to have the same.

Keev

LOL FUCKING 69


WHere the heck u been in afgan or what?

MIA FOrever

SixNine

Bone I only go to titty bars when I'm with adult webmasters... otherwise I go to regular clubs where I can actually get some pussy for less than $20

It was kewl... drunk as fuck.... not much of a challenge... YAWN... I'm way to good looking and have way too much game for these Seattle babes.

Anyways, just popped on to see if iBill has pulled their heads out of their assess.

Don't forget to remind during the first part of Nov. No flea bag (Quattro Stars Only)
Late,


SixNine

boneprone

makes sence though.. I totally agree with what you are saying.. If there is no discouragement over the tactics, it is only going to get worse and worse. They will try to get away with more and mo.e shit..

I dont think im imagining it but even the most conserative visble page counters look more and more like misleading thumbs. Something that has gotten worse in just the past half year or so.

SixNine

You guys are debating couhnters at 4am on Friday night... crazy fucks!

I'm around man... I'll hit you on ICQ. Gotta find out what you've been up to since you graduated.

BTW... In ICQ if you click that little thing that says "SixNine"... you can also send me a message.

L8RSK8R

SixNine

boneprone

Six Nine..

There is a nice hotel down the street form here with a big Red Neon Lightning Bolt on each room Window..

I think you will like it.

Plus the adult movies are all free inthe room.

It's Dank's favorite!

3Xguru

Well, I guess you'll ahve to do like me
Use Webtrendslive
Small button non pornrelated and decent and reliable stats

SixNine

BTW - SexTracker has ALWAYS been blinder than a motherfucker.

I remember 2 years ago someone (not gonna say any names but he owns this board) tearing sextracker's ass up for their blind tactics when they tried to pull some "holier than thou" bullshit.

I'm out... not gonna get sucked into this discussion at 4:30am... I just came in my office looking for my fucking Tylenol...
GFY

SixNine

SixNine

3Xguru,
Fuckit... yea... Webtrendslive kicks ass... go to sleep


SixNine

SixNine

OK Boneprone no problem... and I'll be sure to bring my FrontPage 2.0 clip art CD!

SixNine

Bake

Hun are you still acepting paycounter?
Thansk Bake

3Xguru

Where I live it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon so I won't go to sleep

Techie Media

Hey I know that place...They took the "Lightning Bolt" Idea from me...LOL



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-=HUNGRYMAN=-

LMFAO !!!
Bomeprone did that ??


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The Black Sheep of the Boneprone Family
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[This message has been edited by -=HUNGRYMAN=- (edited 10-13-2001).]

aleck

actually there is barely any point of counters on gallery pages at all

for counting hits and/or referrers u can use:
server logs, simple scripts, _normal_ counters for freehosted galleries like nedstats for example

btw even small _blind_ button can suck some traffic, even if it's only 0.05% ctr... if u r pushing 100k per day on galleries that is 1.5k hits each month, personally i prefer to send 'em to sponsor or my other site. imho tho

main use of counters nowadays is to be published on counter's ranking. for example we all know Hun's unqiues per day due to sextracker, right? but we really don't care how many received some gallery listed there if it's not our one tho

banning counters would be too strict move, but one day it will happen anyway.

aleck

btw tnx for blazing fast reviewing and listing Hun, 5-6 hrs for review and few days for listing with ur traffic r great

tnx man

Rip

I have a java based server counter that was alerting your script, and getting rejected, so I went back to the old s-tracker and soforth

looks like this {script language=JavaScript}
{ !--
document.write('{img src="http://your.server.com/cgi-bin/toprefferer/referers.cgi?'+document.referrer+'" width=1 height=1 border=0}');
// --}
{/script}

and I load it in a 1x1 pixel

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[This message has been edited by Rip (edited 10-13-2001).]

Heinz

The main use of counters on a TGP gallery is to find out who is sending traffic and who not. And on a free host you need a third stats counter. This counter is not stealing your traffic and not sucking your traffic - it's a "free" service and as usual you pay with traffic. Period.

Maybe there is a reason, why the counters are getting more and more aggressiv in their methods to get the traffic. And I'm talking about all the bullshit like "don't click, only a counter", "only a fucking couner", "no need to click here, no free pics there" etc etc pp.

I don't know if this a real chance: but there are not so many counters around, and before taking actions it should be possible to talk with them about this toppic. And if the big TGP's would start to decline every gallery with this bullshit sentences, the counter companies could change their methodes too.

But maybe it's just an illusion.

Snake Doctor

Actually I've always found telling people to not click here is a pretty good way to get them to click...so maybe that's actually giving the counter companies more clicks )

Hmmmm....wonder if I put that under the AP hotlink pic...don't click here I don't have any free pics...LOL

Aussie

Well I decided not to put a counter on an gallery see if I get listed....um

Who cares if I get 200k or 2 hits - its the signups.

Red7

Very Simple solution! Just do the same as all these big tgps do: make it in your Rules that you can only use a counter if it is at the very bottom of the page br-br-br and put the code in a table with 3 rows and say do not click this it is only our counter..
problem solved! i know many big tgp guys that have done this and that saves on the BS clicks!

boneprone

yep I did it!

The Hun

Red... wouldn't be the best solution. That would encourage people from totally burying the counters so they don't get clicks at all anymore...

I have the highest respect for sites like sextracker. They are the reason people are interested in posting on my site and they can provide unbiased numbers to let people know my traffic. Which is in my case in important number to bring out 'cause I live off the advertising sales on my site.

My problem is that almost every link-site declines galleries with blind links on 'em. And since most galleries have counters on 'em a lot are declined 'cause of the blind counter buttons.

I don't mind doing advertising for a counter in excange for their 3rd party statistics, but when they would put a blind counter on my page (like HyperCounter and Websidestory did) I don't want them on my page...

wolfshade

As usual I fail to see the big deal.

1 Because of the size of the button and the wellknown way those buttons look 90% of all surfers recognise it for what it is(because they are on so many pages)

2 They barely get clicks at all on galleries

3 It's nice to have an overview of hits(I love those paycounter stats)

4 I still say that once a surfer clicks past the gallery page he/she is mine and of no concern of the TGP owner.

Now not to flame or start a pissing match here but can some of you TGP guys suggest a good way to make money off gallerypages?

I mean all I read is this goes to far, that's not acceptable, yadayadayada.

I have yet to hear some positive suggestions from any of the large TGP owners.

Though I'll be interested to read a responce to this rant of mine, I'll stick to TGP2 less bandwidth, less rules and more sales!

Ciao!
Wolfshade


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The Hun

If you're right it's good news. You say: "1 Because of the size of the button and the wellknown way those buttons look 90% of all surfers recognise it for what it is(because they are on so many pages)". Good. Then it should be a big deal changing 'em to non-blind banners.

Sorry, but I don't think you're right. If there was no use for the blind banners this discussion wouldn't be started for the 3rd time. People will click. And when they do they come to more blind ads.

Take SexTracker. First I get http://enter.sextracker.com/Webmasters/, which is a collection of banners, most of which are blind. I clicked a couple and most of 'em were downloading dialers without explaining what they were and trying to auto-bookmark sites and change my homepage with some ActiveX control. Then I clicked 'enter here'. I got to http://www.sextracker.com/mcat.html?cat=Hetero, with blind thumbs with 'click here to Enlarge' under 'em. I clicked to enlarge and was sent to alsscan.com, so, this blind button on a gallery (in this case some 'movie viewer' at the bottom of http://amateurs.xwebhosting.com/wild.../free%202.html which was submitted to me) led to blind ads, dialers and autobookmarking scripts. So if someone that doesn't know what this button is and clicks it (and eventually they all do) they're fucked. They're tought that clicking ads will get you fucked. And they're tought not the hit these buttons. THAT is the big deal about this.

magnatique

just checking if Sexlist has been ok with you hun in the past? www.freenudegalleries.com/

an example there...

Think you could tell me what counter is still good around? I'd consider changing it if it can get me more listings... never thought of not getting listed cuz of a counter...

SleazyDream

I tend to agree with the hun. As many of you know I used to have a hypercount counter on my gallery postings about 6 months ago. It was nice to see the stats but I found that I got some complaints from surfers about the blind link nature of it. Without counters on galleries they load faster and I found many TGPs posted my galleries higher up. Bottom line - more traffci=more money. I still have server stats on my galleries so I dont' see the necessity for counters on them, and those that lead to blind link console hell traps will slowly loose their market share in my opinion as everyone is really getting sick of that. Although I dont' use free hosts, it is a point to mention to them though as many of them do use counters and may increase their traffic wothout them. The problem we all face though is we need a thrid party reliable counter sourse to prove our traffic levels to pre-paid sponsers.

wolfshade

Hun,

These days I'm not a regular gallery builder anymore I don't submit em every day but I still manage to submit about 4 galleries a week in order to test some of my ideas.

I submit with paycounter, I submit with Sextracker's counter and I even use Hypercounter.

The average clicks per day on those buttons in a TOP spot is 5 clicks per day at 50k traffic!!!!

That's what my comments were based on.

Therefor I stick to my opinion and say again:

Why the hell do you TGP guys have to make an Elephant out of every Mosquitto?

It realy is beyond me, but then again I'm known to go against the stream

I always get what I want though

Wolfshade


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Red7

Well I have your solution Mr Hun:=)
Make your own counter and you do what you wish with it and make all the tgps that post to you use it! problem solved!

HQ

yup...

it's just like when i was a kid and my parents would always get pizzas with mushrooms on it. they'd say u can't taste mushrooms.

begs the question of putting the mushrooms on in the first place, doesn't it?

nice analogy, huh?!

YoYoBean

Wow...did anyone just notice that The Hun came out and said something...fuck

im honoured man!

(bowing to hun)

LOL

The Hun

Wolfshade, a blind link is a blind link, period. I don't know where you get your stats from, but I did a little test. The hits to the sextracker counter on my page (which is clearly identified as a counter and 'cause I'm in the top 3 a lot less blind then their regular counter) and I got 10 clicks in the first 10 minutes. I can see how much clicks they get now with this script.

I'll do some closer testing. 5 clicks on a blind banner on a gallery that gets 50K uniques is bullshit. Or the traffic is very bad. Or the counter is hidden away on the bottom of your page. But there are galleries out there with the counter right above or right below the gallery content itself, those get a lot of traffic.

The amount of traffic they get isn't even the point here. It's blind advertising. And it's screwing people with blind ads, dialers, autobookmark scripts and homepage changers (like described in my previous post). And that to me is a big deal

Unriz3n

It almost irritates me to see TGPs telling me what sponsors I can/can't use, what counters I can/can't use, etc, etc... BUT golden rule comes into play - Don't like it, submit somewhere else. So if hun says he wants respectable/no counters on my galleries, off they go. I simply enjoy getting 100k hits to one gallery listing and making 7-10 sales..

Hopefully the TGP2 revolution will continue to grow and all these galleries I'm making will be very profitable down the road when there are TGP2's with a few hundred thousand a day to send.

Cheers

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[This message has been edited by Unriz3n (edited 10-15-2001).]

jimmyf

Well am confused.

hun what counter's do you accept please, if any?
Like am going to get a gallery listed by you.

Jim

The Hun

At the moment I'm not declining much galleries 'cause of the counters. I'm also not banning any counters in particular. I think that would go too far. With this discussion I'm hoping to get some feedback from the counter companies about this issue though. I see how many clicks the non-blind counter get on my page. I'm sure there is a nice compromise that will work for everybody

wolfshade

Ok, a bit of info on how I came to those figures

The traffic came from

Easy Pic
Ahme

And I managed to dig up some logs on a gallery I had on the yelow pages.

Since it was traffic from your archives it was not the 100k a freshly listed gallery got but still 10k total from yoru archives isn't bad

Although since you mentioned it

And it made up 10k of the results I analysed well it says something you figure out what

And BTW those buttons were in teh TOP spot

Anyway you say 10 clicks in 10 minutes, how much traffic in those 10 minutes?

On another note nothing bad about the Amateur pages program but you do list galleries with those pic ads from Lensmans proggy.

So there appears to be a difference in blind ads and blind ads eh?

Let's not call eachother pussy here facts are that

1 You have the longest list of blacklisted sponsors
2 The longest list of blacklisted freehosts

I don't think it is right for any siteowner(TGP, TOPLIST, LINKSITE, PAYSITE or whatever site) to try to impose their rules upon the rest simply because you get a lot of hits.

It realy is of no consequence to me whatever your rules are I just won't submit anymore to TGP's with insane rules. There are still a lot left with good common sense rules and a decent amount of traffic.

It just annoys me to read another post about a traffic monger trying to force his rules and that is what you do, no matter what you want to call it.

Like I said before I'm doing TGP2 which does more with the little traffic it gets then any TGP sending 100k a day.

This just annoys me is all

Wolfshade




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magnatique

the good thing about hun though is you get notified if you get listed... otherwize, the only way I have unless going ot every tgps I submit to is my counter stats..

I mean, otherwize, how would i know I got 150K to one gallery, and only 4 signups...

or i got 40k, and 20 signups... I gotta know where it's from..

The Hun

"On another note nothing bad about the Amateur pages program but you do list galleries with those pic ads from Lensmans proggy.". Those 'picturebanners' as they're called were banned by me the minute they came out. Lensman will confirm that. Please don't call out things that ain't true Wolfshade...

I have no "insane" rules. Unless you call having a little respect and business ethics "insane".