So let us view just the facts here.

NATS says that shaving is not build into the program. Other affiliate software does have it built in.

NATS programmers have built the database in such a way that shaving is much more difficult. I wouldn't be surprised if it has checks in it to make sure the numbers are not changed, if they are, you lose your license?

NATS says that if you are caught shaving around NATS system then you will lose your license (possibly also exposed here?).

Lee is an attention whore.

You missed the most important fact of all..

IT IS STILL POSSIBLE FOR A SPONSOR TO SHAVE IF THEY USE NATS

Regards,

Lee

and several program owners congratulating Nats for a) terminating anyone they catch shaving, b) finally correcting the false impression their clients created with all the false claims they used to compete unfairly.

Very refreshing that webmasters understand that programs using nats can shave and also that Nats appears 100% against it. A lot of new affiliate software packages are popping up and there is still nothing better than proprietary source code that one can update as needed on their own.

you are a fucktard:1orglaugh The guy never said it was "impossible". He said there is no "built in" shave feature. Would you like me to buy "Hooked on Phonics" for you. You obviously have a reading comprehension problem or are you look for attention? Did your mommy not hug you when you are little or did she hug you to much?:1orglaugh :321GFY

I never said there was a built in shave feature either.

Please point to any section of this 3 page thread where i said that.

The guy was arguing the same point that i was.. he let his emotions get in the way of fact because he though i was hammering on NATs which i wasnt.

Perhaps you better had buy a copy of hooked on phonics and use it yourself.

Regards,

Lee

++He said there is no "built in" shave feature. ++

I was talking about PBucks saying that not you. Try to comprehend. So, so so sad. I congratulate you:thumbsup

No it's about software options actually.

LOL

Did you even read what i said? I agreed that NATs had no shave feature built in however, it would seem a lot of the posters in this thread seem to be under the impression that IS what i said LOL

Regards,

Lee

A very well thought out post Evan...

The problem is, a lot of webmasters, until this thread was started didnt realise that was the case and that NATs although it is a great product, offers no more protection aganst shaving than a chocolate bar :2 cents:

Regards,

Lee

Now I planned to stay out of this thread But when someone is making false accusations AGAIN, I just had to add my comments to at least that part of the thread that concerned us.
I guess your "other affiliate sofware does have it built in" was ment for us.
MPA3 does not in any shape or form have any built in shaving options built in to it !
You guys have to start finding a new way of getting free advertisement now!

First there was click thru calvin, now there are nats and mpa.. In a couple of years there will be other third party solutions for those that cannot afford or have not got the time to program a custom solution.

Last year there was swoit this year there is dollars.com next year there will be ?? Anybody see a pattern.

Garry you need to learn that I, nor V_Rocks mentioned your fucking program.

You are not the only other software out there. Why is it when someone says "software that shaves" you assume they're talking about you.

MPA3 has no shave feature either. You guys took a good step in doing that. I have never said it has one.

attention whore

Also a general reply but mostly to Holio & Evan...

Some of our client's may be over pushing the fact that we do not have a shave feature. I understand your point there. We'll be discussing this Monday and deciding if we need to put some limits on anyone after reviewing their sites/claims.



No shave feature aside, NATS is the most configurable and stable affiliate software available. That is the main reason why it has taken off like it has. It is a solid, well supported product from a real company who take what they do seriously. Just ask any of our clients.

.htaccess

please, John...this is not the good way to promote your program

Did you read my post? Garry is the one who came in here getting pissy and starting it up again. We did not mention his program. We do not attack him. This is something he has invented in his head.

Yes, I did, but in the last weeks, both NATS and also MPA attacked the other company. I think it would be the best if each company would talk about their positives and features, not about negatives of "the other" program.

Which is what I have done in this thread. Search the thread, I did not mention MPA or Mansion at all once. Yet you still feel the need to jump on me.

However marketing is about showing why your product is better. That involves showing the downfalls of competitors. When asked why we are better we will always state things of that nature. It's simple business and totally acceptable.

We do not make personal attacks against anyone and we do not make false claims. We never have. I think Oystien is a great guy for instance. That doesn't mean that if I find a problem with a product of his I won't point it out to people looking at both my product and his.

Hmmmmm I whonder why I assume this after all your guys posts about this topic in the past.

I didn't jump on you, to be honest, NATS is #1 in my book, when I decide to go for cascading. I just didn't like the "your fucking program" sentence about MPA. :glugglug

LOL, I post about much much more than that.

Again, when people directly ask me the differences between products I am going to tell them. I havne't made things up about you, I never would.

I don't go posting it out of the blue, I do when my product and your product are brought up. I don't attack you. I have not even mentioned you or your product in this thread, OTHERS have. Yet you feel the need to come after me about it.

Gotcha, that was me just being a bit emotional about him constantly accusing me of "attacking" him when I have done nothing of the sort. If linux says Windows crashes all the time when asked about Windows, they're not attacking them.

:glugglug

I still like your program btw :) When you're ready to make the move let me know, we'll work with you to make it very easy to make the move both technically and financially.

I love everyone.

:Graucho

:1orglaugh I owe you a drink :)

thx :) the most important part is epochEU :glugglug

Thanks for considering our comments and the best part is the general interest in the power of affiliate marketing. The affiliate marketing and advertising sector continues to grow and that is good news for all of us :thumbsup

No problem, shoot me an icq when you have a few, 5596373

"False Advertising

Any advertising which is misleading in any material respect is considered to be false advertising. An advertisement is considered misleading if it fails to disclose facts which are important in light of what is stated in the advertisement, or facts which are relevant in the light of the customary use of the product.

The Federal Trademark Law gives consumers similar protections against false labeling, although it was mainly intended to protect businesses against unfair competition. By its terms, the law permits any person who believes he is or is likely to be damaged to bring a lawsuit against any false designation of the origin, false description or fake representation of goods or services in interstate commerce.

Deceptive Business Practices"

Bla bla bla... And then there is some more bla bla bla and bla...

Some word of advice; keep the game fair and you will play for a long time.

:2 cents:

of course you can just put untracked bleeder links on the tour and you can shave all you want

see

tawnyroberts

which uses nats

currently one of the links to her video store doesn't include an affiliate id

just make some of your links to the join without an affiliate passthru and you are shaving hits whenever a person clicks on that link

The last thing in the world we need from you or your company is advice.

While you have the dictionary out.. look up fraud, theft, and accessory.

You just won't quit will you.

Not paying out on video sales is not _shaving_.


Shaving is the stealing of signups unknown to the affiliate.

No where does Atlas claim they pay out on video sales as far as I know and it is in plain view to anyone and everyone that they don't.

If they put a link on their site to Sports Illustrated subcriptions or who knows what it doesn't mean they need to pay you on it, that depends on how they run their program. If you don't like how they run their program you don't have to use it.

It's when it's done blindly and decivingly that it is shaving.

Lee may be annoying, but he does have a point with this thread. Many webmasters are idiots when it comes to technology, and they don't understand that shaving can also be done outside of the tracking script. They need to know the truth :2 cents:

Again, of course. I've never made a claim otherwise. The only claims we've made is that NATS has no shave feature, that we have made it as hard as we know how to avoid and will continue to improve up on what we've already done, and should we ever find someone screwing with the numbers there will be consequences to face.

I never imagined in my life we'd be met with so much definace for trying to bring a little bit of integrity to the business.

Lee is annoying, he choose to single us out, most likely for the attention. He's on my shitlist and he'll stay there. There is a way to bring up a point and a way not to. He did it the childish way. I never shy away from a discussion about things. I'll debate the shaving thing and how to best prevent/avoid it all day long. Usually only good will come out of it. But when he starts a thread making false claims (i.e. he uses NATS) and looking to single us out, I have a problem with it.

As far as the modifying of things, you can do exactly the same thing with a CCBill only program (as serveral people have stated in this thread). People for years have said "you're safe with us since we use ccbill for our affiliate program". No one ever jumped on them for it.

NATS is a very powerful, very flexible software that is growing and taking hold at an unbelievable rate. It is doing so for the most part because it is the best option out there for an affiliate program looking for a turnkey package and it has a real company behind it that offers real service and support. You can ALWAYS reach us by phone during business hours. That may sound silly but it's a rarity in the adult business.

NATS taking hold so quickly has some people in the business scared. With that comes hate and drama threads like we have here.

Lee MAY be annoying??

now THAT is funny!!


He is annoying as all fuck and does nothing but attract drama and then fuck off


u fucking suck lee - cock n all lol

i think people are just scared of nats, what other company has taken over a sector of the adult internet market as quickly as nats has.

Thanks. We really are good guys tho. (Probably the #1 reason we've grown so quickly).

We offer a quality product, great service, reasonable pricing, and we deliver what we promise. Sounds so basic, but it's always so rare.

:thumbsup

did you read my post at all

I specifically said "just make some of your links to the join without an affiliate passthru and you are shaving hits whenever a person clicks on that link "

The fact that tawnyroberts has a leaching link proves it can be done.

This thread gave me a laugh. PBucksJohn you handle yourself really well, much better than I could in the face of such blatant bullshit, kudos

Been following this thread and I will say besides you loosing it once, you seem to be very professional. It is tough being an affiliate knowing that sponsors may shave. Most of the time, the affiliate never knows if it was the scripting or actual abuse from their sponsor and just move on.

Seems like your program is trying to be honest and I admire this.
:)

hehe i've always preached this too, but does anyone listen no?

it would take about 2 minutes of work to implement shaving...

ppl just don't get it.

As an outsider to this bit (we don't run sites at all, or an affiliate program currently)..

I *was* under the distinct impression that NATS was the one program that shaving was somehow impossible on.

Not that it was exactly false advertising or anything like that, but talking to anyone who was a nats user you would think that it was written by the NSA.

Don't get me wrong NATS guys, I still think it's hella good marketing :)

(but boy, everybody sure is angry tonight!!)

why do you want to know? are you into ball licking or something?

Exactly....come visit the AdultLounge.com offices one day and see who your doing business with!

i like the way there is ppl talking about two different things, shaving software and shaving themself.

People could also buy a car, step out of it and bash their heads in on the fender. Is it Chrysler's responsibility to warn people of that hazard?

Anyone who doesn't understand that a company can avoid paying you on exit sales or links that don't track needs to be run out of the business. How is Nats supposed to control that? They offer a referral proggie with no built-in shave function. If they catch someone cheating they take away the software and sue them. What do you want them to do? Insist on control over every piece of HTML on their customer's sites? Hire a hitman to kill cheaters? What the fuck...

Funny how much shit they're getting for building a product about issues they have absolutely no control over.

As far as I can see, the whole beef here is that someone COULD, potentially, if they're unethical enough, fuck someone out of their traffic. SOMEHOW Nats hasn't figured out how to stop a webmaster from taking down their index page and putting up a banner farm. Duh. I would never have known something like that could ever happen if it hadn't been pointed to me in this thread.