Visa & Other CC Co. --- ending online porn? - GoFuckYourself.com

m0rph3us · 10-09-2001, 01:05 PM

I've been reading lots about Visa and the other CC companies imposing hard fines on merchats for online chargebacks etc..

In your opinion do you think that soon there will be a drastic decrease in online porn if VISA stops porn transations?

Ibill is already having major problems with CC acceptance etc.. I donno if it's their systems or what...

What do you all think?

Amputate Your Head · 10-09-2001, 01:08 PM

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:10 PM

It would suck, but porn always finds a way. Myself, within the next month i'll be rolling out my new program Thug Cash. We wont be accepting credit cards, we will be sending "associates" to customers homes to collect payment. We will also be collecting more money if they use too much bandwidth. We will collect further fees if they stop using our site. That will be the $2500 dollar cancellation fee.

Now, you might ask yourselves, "why would anyone pay $2500 to cancel a pay site subscription?" Well, trust me, they will. We'll be having a 50/50 program for webmasters OR 925 dollars per sign up.

Now, you might be asking yourselves, "How can they afford to pay %925 for a single sign up?" Well, trust me, we'll make it all back and more.

Look for more info coming soon.

Adultbouncer Rob · 10-09-2001, 01:16 PM

<=======> ~ ~ ~ ~

smoking the wacky tabacky there son =)

JakeR · 10-09-2001, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
It would suck, but porn always finds a way. Myself, within the next month i'll be rolling out my new program Thug Cash. We wont be accepting credit cards, we will be sending "associates" to customers homes to collect payment. We will also be collecting more money if they use too much bandwidth. We will collect further fees if they stop using our site. That will be the $2500 dollar cancellation fee.

Now, you might ask yourselves, "why would anyone pay $2500 to cancel a pay site subscription?" Well, trust me, they will. We'll be having a 50/50 program for webmasters OR 925 dollars per sign up.

Now, you might be asking yourselves, "How can they afford to pay %925 for a single sign up?" Well, trust me, we'll make it all back and more.

Look for more info coming soon.

can you e-mail me when the program is up-and-running?

flyingco · 10-09-2001, 01:20 PM

A little bit of background about myself. I used to work on credit card systems as a software developer and know the credit card systems well and all their quirks. Heck, in fact, I even know about epoch, ibill, ccbill and all the online systems out there. I know their fraud capabilities and to be honest, none of them are any good at all. So I started my own R&D company do deal with CC fraud and still working on it and still trying to get it finished. But the point here is this:

Chargebacks occur because these systems do not have an advanced fraud deterent system in place. Fuck AVS aka Address Verification System which they call a fraud detection system. A european person in france does not have AVS on their stupid credit card. Fuck AVS because they only match the fucking number on your house and state and zip
EG. If you stay at 1, White House Lane
do you know what they look for in the AVS for address?
That NUMBER 1. That is right that number ONLY. Not the whole fucking address. Do you know for Ibill, CCbill and any of these companies can actually do a sumbit on their processor with lets say the following to their gateway?
User:
Andrew Mean
1, White House Lane
CA 46911
All they need to really send to the processor to get back an AVS code is 1, 46911 and not the entire line of address even? Enuff said. The bank is at fault but hey at least I am sure that when my project is finish it will rake in big bucks for me. Enuff said.

CDSmith · 10-09-2001, 01:21 PM

Gary -- As a thugcash affiliate, how much will I make per signup? $600 sounds reasonable.

Can I refer other webmasters? And, can I get a bonus for collecting fees for you in my area? I've kicked in doors before.

___________
CD

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Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:22 PM

My program will have 0 chargebacks. Or else.

CDSmith · 10-09-2001, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
My program will have 0 chargebacks. Or else.

I love you man

Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith:
Gary -- As a thugcash affiliate, how much will I make per signup? $600 sounds reasonable.

Can I refer other webmasters? And, can I get a bonus for collecting fees for you in my area? I've kicked in doors before.

We are paying $950 per signup and yes, many of our webmasters will also be handling collections in their area. We will send you a booklet on the proper way to strongarm, blackmail, etc... We do, after all, have a corporate image to maintain and require everyone to fall the rules.

danevans · 10-09-2001, 01:26 PM

There are always dialers

Rocky · 10-09-2001, 01:26 PM

the answer will be prepaid smart cards that have a re-loadable purse

it's a win-win situation for everyone

Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by danevans:
There are always dialers

We will also have dialers, but ours will be better than everyone else's. You see when someone clicks on our dialer, it transmits all their personal info to us. Shortly after that, one of our "associates" visits his home, hooks up the dialer and sits with the customer while he uses it. This way we ensure maximum minutes.

qcmoney · 10-09-2001, 01:29 PM

It's been around for a long time. It's called the SET protocol. The question to ask is why hasn't the U.S. adopted it yet.

qcmoney · 10-09-2001, 01:31 PM

http://www.setco.org/

CDSmith · 10-09-2001, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
We are paying $950 per signup

I think I just came in my sweats.
Yup, I did. Ick, shouldn't have stuck my hand in to check. gewwwwww.

We will send you a booklet on the proper way to strongarm, blackmail, etc...

I wrote that book. I get especially a lot of mail about the chapter on grabbing non-paying customers by the short hairs.

Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:33 PM

Remember, with Thug Cash, you dont even need a web site to promote it, all you have to do is give us your neighbors name and address and we take care of the rest. Your neighbor doesn't have a computer? No problem, its not needed.

danevans · 10-09-2001, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
We will also have dialers, but ours will be better than everyone else's. You see when someone clicks on our dialer, it transmits all their personal info to us. Shortly after that, one of our "associates" visits his home, hooks up the dialer and sits with the customer while he uses it. This way we ensure maximum minutes.

ROTFLMAO

I cannot believe this comment

Where are snow and wolfshade now?

Hooper · 10-09-2001, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
We do, after all, have a corporate image to maintain and require everyone to fall the rules.

So are we talking about a knit jersey polo and khakis kinda image here?

Gary · 10-09-2001, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hooper:
So are we talking about a knit jersey polo and khakis kinda image here?

Of course, nothing says corporate like Khakis.

THUG CASH - its all about getting paid

TheFLY · 10-09-2001, 01:41 PM

flyingco... sounds like a really cool company and idea you have there... is your whole idea based on just scanning address information or is there more to it? seems like you would need some pretty tricky code to catch all the variations of apartment numbers, spellings of streets, abbreviations, case sensitivity, etc...

I don't know much about it but could you explain to my why just checking the street number promotes fraud? Are you saying that there are hackers that can pretty easily guess? the street address or obtain that info... and then just run the charge with that info only?

These porn sites should just do what we did way way back in the day on BBS systems... when you signed up for a BBS -- we had an autocallback feature to verify identity... YOu dial up a BBS -- enter in all your personal info (like your home phone number) -- then your system disconnects, and the BBS calls your modem -- you connect -- the BBS asks for your PW -- then the user enterse their PW -- there you go now you are verified... Of course this was tricky for long distance users... Personally I just called all my customers on the phone to verify identy...

BUT for a porn site it would be SO easy to just have an automated system call the porn surfer at a time specified by the surfer... The surfer gets an automated phone call -- and then confirms the charge! How fucking easy would that be...? You could even have it make 3 attempts -- or a user specified number of attempts. You could even call international callers -- shit you can call Italy for $.08/min from the US -- these calls would be under 60 seconds anyway it... If you wanted to be a cheap ass you could even bill the surfers for the long distance verification process.

Anyway this is not a new idea -- I've been verified this way before -- I just can't remember what service it was that I was using...

Flyingco, hire me... ;) Where in LA are you?

CDSmith · 10-09-2001, 01:51 PM

"Punch in the head" -- the official drink of thugcash...
http://www.flash.net/~smcint/drinks/...punchinthe.htm

yummmmmmm.

Kimmykim · 10-09-2001, 02:02 PM

flyingco = full of shit.

I have to run out now but I'll be back to pick it apart later on tonite.

Go with Garys program

lightswitch · 10-09-2001, 02:03 PM

i use paypal now, but i used to get the billing address from the CC verifiction Co. & do manual address varifications. It was expensive, but worth it. Because in mail order by law someone can pretty much keep anything that is sent to them without paying for it. Thats why Columbia house is fucked & can never do anything if you never pay them.

m0rph3us · 10-09-2001, 05:15 PM

I think the issue here is chargebacks, customer support and methods of billing. Take those "free" AVSs out there that run a free trial. JoeBlow submits his CC number and he gets 'free' access to the AVS along with a trial that converts to $40 membership. Of course chargebacks will be skyhigh. Visa has many many many more customers than merchats so imposing HUGE fines is a simple answer for them.

And I quote from a ZDNET article:

". At its discretion, Visa will charge noncompliant merchant accounts a $5,000 "review fee" in the first month of violation, escalating to $25,000 in the sixth month, plus a $100-per-charge-back handling fee. MasterCard is even more aggressive: After two months above the threshold, a merchant must pay a $25,000 fine per month. At six months, that fee jumps to $50,000. At 10 months or more, the fine is $100,000 per month."

How do you think CCBIll and Ibill and Globill etc.. etc.. will handle this?

It is a very likely future that VISA & the other major CCs might stop online transactions.

Which brings me to my next questions:
In Canada (and the US i belive) there's a system call Interact. With the use of a card representing your bank account and a PIN, you pay for goods at store directly from your bank account (no credit). If there would be a such system for the web (paypal?) then that would virtually eliminate chargebacks.

Wizzo · 10-09-2001, 05:26 PM

"In Canada (and the US i belive) there's a system call Interact. With the use of a card representing your bank account and a PIN, you pay for goods at store directly from your bank account (no credit)."

If you can figure a way to process ATM cards on the web, it will make you VERY VERY wealthy...

Hooper · 10-09-2001, 05:39 PM

Wizzo.. i think quite a few people have tried to bring ATM cards to the web...

chargebacks are virtually impossible and the only info you need is the card number and pin code... 2 pieces of nice anonymous information... a webmaster's dream so to speak.

Unfortunately, the pulse, sum etc.. networks are megapricks & recurring billing wouldn't be an option.

Maybe someday.. but as i recall... atmbilling.com has been promising releases for almost a year now :-(

On the other hand...we've got a new billing solution that doesn't require any credit cards, checks, pin numbers or downloads and best of all it does TRUE age verification :-)

Coming soon to an ad above you ;-))

Heinz · 10-09-2001, 09:50 PM

TheFly
do you know this system: http://www.paybox.co.uk/236_272.html ?

mika · 10-10-2001, 01:54 AM

Sorry to say but IMO the US system of handling payments in the Net and elsewhere is almost ancient history.

We have stopped using checks since 80's or so. All payments are made directly from one's bank account to another's. Including pay checks and all. You can pay online and the money will be transferred in real time. The banks are almost only for grammas who dont have computers and who cant pay at home.

Same goes for shopping in the Net. You order a product, and transfer the money from one bank account to another in real time.

When I received my first check from clickcash in 97 and went with it to the bank, they were laughing at it and said it looks like MONOPOLY fake money.

Cerbernetic · 10-10-2001, 03:14 AM

Hmm, a slight addition to what people have had to say.

First of all, as long as there are jerkers off, there is a way

The demand "DEMANDS" the supply.

How does credit card fraud happen ? Well either people actually get the credit card details of other people, or they generate credit card numbers using valid algorithms, and make up the other details as they go along.

First assuming we're dealing with people who generate the credit card numbers. The ideal thing to do is ask the user to provide some detail which is very difficult for the hacker in question to provide. Cvv2 numbers are a step towards this. The possibility of bruteforcing these does exist though, 3 digit numbers. A possibility that strikes me would be linking an email address with a cc number. The email address linked could be changed any time by in person request by the person in question. First of all, a confirmatory mail would be sent to the email address in question on signup. Only if the person clicked on a generated link would that person be signed up - otherwise the card would be flagged as suspicious. A simple notion perhaps - well, small things count here.

Second, people who manage to get cc details. Well one cant do much about gas station fraud, where the employees copy the receipt details. However, one can find ways of plugging online fraud. Too many websites today do their own billing - store their credit card data on their own sites and thus raise the basic level of the security that they HAVE to maintain. Lose a password file and ok its bad. But lose your credit card database ? Catastrophe.

The alternative is the billing systems - put the onus of managing the security on them. So far people have hacked sites like eggheads.com etc sure, but the record of systems like ccbill/ibill remain fairly clean. And there are tons of systems to choose from. Sure, theres the headache of maintaining the system. But the benefits are amazing - risk reduction is huge.

Ultimately before we look at different solutions, like handling a different kind of verification, like for example the atm card system - why dont we examine the flaws in the existing system, the prevalent system. If we design a more elegant, simple, and security oriented system we might cut fraud down majorly.

I havent said all that I wanted to say

I might have missed out some stuff, and I might be unaware of a few facts/ideas/views. Just a few points from my personal opinion.

Oof that was long winded

ElvisManson · 10-10-2001, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cerbernetic:

First of all, as long as there are jerkers off, there is a way The demand "DEMANDS" the supply.

I LOVE that term!

Jerkers Off........lol

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Toolz · 10-10-2001, 10:29 AM

Elvis,

Quit changing the subject here. I'm more interested in "Thug Cash"

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Gary · 10-10-2001, 10:33 AM

At Thug Cash, theres no more worries about wether someone will sign up, the only worry you have is how much cash and assets that person has, because you get half of everything. Cash, investments, house, wife, etc...

Warphead · 10-10-2001, 11:20 AM

Are you going to mention in the TOS that cheating webmasters get fitted with cement shoes?

CDSmith · 10-10-2001, 11:21 AM

Maybe at certain times we could offer a bonus where the webmaster, in certain situations, gets the whole wife

I'm making banners and buttons for thugcash now. And my first try at VMRL (3d motion) where the full page ad actually shoots a hand out of the screen at the surfer and chokes him till he coughs up the CC. I love technology.
___________
CD

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[This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 10-10-2001).]

TheFLY · 10-10-2001, 11:21 AM

Hmm maybe we can fix credit cards... I like that you can carry them around in your pocket... and just about anyone with a little bit of money can charge them up at an ATM or a bank. Maybe we need microchips in our fingertips that identify us -- so we can plug into the machine... HAHAHA!!!

Anyway whoever said that banks are just for grandmas -- you're full of shit. I don't think I even need to explain myself. Real dollars are going nowhere... I have one word for you, "McDonalds".

This whole paybox idea of a taxi driver calling a special cell phone number to accept payment from the passenger -- that fucking cracks me up... they are morons. First of all how many taxi drivers can afford a cell phone -- and second of all they aren't going to waste their minutes on your ass -- 3rd -- do you really think you can convince a taxi driver to call some cell phone # to accept payment -- and to convince him to sign up to some new electronic payment service? haha...
Maybe in Europe the taxi drivers are different.

Cash will be around forever... so will checks... and so will banks...

There are still millions of people that don't even have a bank account... I've even considered it myself...

Every time we subscribe to some new technology device the more we enslave ourselves to this machine... Look how many Americans think that they can't live without cars? Most people work as many hours as they do so they can make their car payments, their gas payments, insurance payments, repair/upkeep... on top of that tags, registrations, parking, etc... Now see how many people who think they need cell phones... anyway I better stop now...

Kimmykim · 10-10-2001, 11:31 AM

First thing to understand here is that Visa and MC don't really care about adult -- they care about chargebacks and fraud. They are in business to make money and they want to do web transactions -- lots of them, or they wouldn't spend the money they do on advertising how great it is to use your cc on the web.

CC's are the predominant way to pay, and will remain so for quite some time. Even paypal users have to manage to get money into the system and most of them do it by cc.

Here's an interesting article, it's long, but it should give you a very good idea of why adult takes the bad rap from the cc's that it does. Over the last couple years there have been some very questionable things done with cc's on the adult net -- things we are all paying for now in lower cb allowances and tighter rein by the cc's.
http://riverfronttimes.com/issues/20...tml/page1.html

And while I can't speak for any other processors, I do know how our fraud scrubbing works and it's nothing like what was posted here.

We maintain a very acceptable cb rate, our banks and the cc's have assured us of that, and in doing so our fraud scrubbing still accounts for less than 10% of the declines that come through. The bulk majority of declines is and will remain bank declines -- people with no money in their account.

Speedy26 · 10-10-2001, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gary:
Remember, with Thug Cash, you dont even need a web site to promote it, all you have to do is give us your neighbors name and address and we take care of the rest. Your neighbor doesn't have a computer? No problem, its not needed.

how about companys??? payout shoud be high because they have more money!

Atlas Oil Company
3240 Owen Rd. Fenton, MI. 48430
(810) 629-6071

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Acme Fuel Company
507 S Front St. Dowagiac, MI. 49047
(616) 782-6060

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advanced Fuel Components Incorporated
300 Woolley Dr. Marshall, MI. 49068
(616) 781-1111

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arens Fuel Co
Hancock, MI. 49930
(906) 482-1960

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Big Barneys
Po Box 483. Howell, MI. 48844
(517) 546-8755

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Boley R A Fuels Incorporated
100 E Russell Rd. Tecumseh, MI. 49286
(517) 423-6602

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Castle Oil Co
8260 Sand Beach Rd. Harbor Beach, MI. 48441
(517) 479-6835

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Central Oil Service Incorporated
Pontiac, MI. 48340
(248) 673-1254

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Citizens Gas Fuel Company Blue Flame Room
127 N Main St. Adrian, MI. 49221
(517) 265-2318

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Central Fuel Service Incorporated
62482 Klinger Lake Rd. Centreville, MI. 49032
(616) 467-4085

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clark Fuel Oil & Gas Service
Metamora, MI. 48455
(810) 678-2817

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crystal Flash Bulk Fuels Fuel Oil & Propane
1102 Lincoln Lk. Lowell, MI. 49331
(616) 897-4101

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crystal Flash Bulk Fuels Fuel Oil & Propane
1754 Alpine Ave Nw. Grand Rapids, MI. 49504
(616) 363-4851

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edwards Oil Service Incorporated
530 S Rouge St. Detroit, MI. 48217
(313) 841-2265

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crystal Flash Heating Fuels
7051 Saddlebag Lake Rd. Lake Odessa, MI. 48849
(616) 367-4991

Speedy26 · 10-10-2001, 11:34 AM

thats only a small sample of the clients i can get you from my secret yellow book!

kittykat69 · 10-10-2001, 11:49 AM

Looks like Gary has more than made up for all the "huh?" and "stop crying" posts - aren't you all glad he's back!!!

I want in on thug cash!!!!

Kitty

flyingco · 10-10-2001, 11:56 AM

Quote:

"flyingco = full of shit."

I don't think so, I think you are the one full of shit all of the time anyways just judging from your post.

flyingco · 10-10-2001, 11:58 AM

"It's been around for a long time. It's called the SET protocol. The question to ask is why hasn't the U.S. adopted it yet."

SET protocol requires the webserver to install software and the end user to have a pin number. Not going to take off. Besides, remember VISA and Mastercard are made up of representative banks, do you think CHASE and Citibank will share info of all their customers? It is called POLITICS.

CDSmith · 10-10-2001, 11:58 AM

My money and my trust is on Kimmykim.

No offense.

___________
CD

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flyingco · 10-10-2001, 12:07 PM

Kimmykim: I think you are missing the point. Even Cybersource and eFalcon cannot guarantee a 1% total fraud scrub free solution. There is NO FRAUD FREE SCRUB SOLUTION. Look at the web and you will find that some ratios are as high as 50% or more.

Kimmykim · 10-10-2001, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco:
Kimmykim: I think you are missing the point. Even Cybersource and eFalcon cannot guarantee a 1% total fraud scrub free solution. There is NO FRAUD FREE SCRUB SOLUTION. Look at the web and you will find that some ratios are as high as 50% or more.

Well fortunately for us, we dumped Cybersource a LONG time ago, because we realized they didn't get the job done.

We have a proprietary scrub that not only does the job for us but is used by more people than you would know.

As for me being full of shit, well, I'm processing cards every day and paying people every week on time and in full. Not sure what you are doing

flyingco · 10-10-2001, 12:32 PM

"Well fortunately for us, we dumped Cybersource a LONG time ago, because we realized they didn't get the job done.

We have a proprietary scrub that not only does the job for us but is used by more people than you would know.

As for me being full of shit, well, I'm processing cards every day and paying people every week on time and in full. Not sure what you are doing "

I am doing what I like most. Being retired and doing what I like to do. I sold my processing card company a long time ago. Just that fraud is still interesting and that is why I am still doing fraud research.

As for your propiertary system, since Cybersource is the leader and you can get the job done better, then I SUGGEST you try to list the company since it is so much better. Or are you afraid to do it? Enuff said. Take my challenge or go run into the corner and cry.

flyingco · 10-10-2001, 12:34 PM

Btw, I am 30 and I am retired after selling my card processing unit and you are still working. So if I am full of shit, what does that make you now? More full of shit because you are still working? You don't know me nor do I know you, so why start the name calling?

Kimmykim · 10-10-2001, 12:40 PM

Ever heard of FDR?

mika · 10-10-2001, 12:59 PM

TheFly: "Cash will be around forever... so will checks... and so will banks..."

Maybe in the USA. Not in Europe. WTF do you actually need checks for? Cash/CC and what you guys call a "wire transfer" should do. When I need cash I can withdraw it from an automat and I dont have to go to bank to wait with grandmas. I only need to visit my bank when I cash a check from the US..

Kimmykim · 10-10-2001, 01:02 PM

mika --

Europeans do their financial transacting a good bit differently than Americans do, you are dead right on it.

Many companies are working on better Euro solutions to make that traffic more profitable

10-09-2001, 01:05 PM	#1
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	Visa & Other CC Co. --- ending online porn? I've been reading lots about Visa and the other CC companies imposing hard fines on merchats for online chargebacks etc.. In your opinion do you think that soon there will be a drastic decrease in online porn if VISA stops porn transations? Ibill is already having major problems with CC acceptance etc.. I donno if it's their systems or what... What do you all think?

10-09-2001, 01:21 PM	#7
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Gary -- As a thugcash affiliate, how much will I make per signup? $600 sounds reasonable. Can I refer other webmasters? And, can I get a bonus for collecting fees for you in my area? I've kicked in doors before. <font face="Verdana">___________ CD * <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories * <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Topbucks</font></a> 50 solid sites to promote, + content and many extras! * <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

10-10-2001, 11:21 AM	#35
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	Maybe at certain times we could offer a bonus where the webmaster, in certain situations, gets the whole wife I'm making banners and buttons for thugcash now. And my first try at VMRL (3d motion) where the full page ad actually shoots a hand out of the screen at the surfer and chokes him till he coughs up the CC. I love technology. <font face="Verdana">___________ CD * <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories * <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Topbucks</font></a> 50 solid sites to promote, + content and many extras! * <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font> [This message has been edited by CDSmith (edited 10-10-2001).]

10-10-2001, 11:58 AM	#43
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	My money and my trust is on Kimmykim. No offense. <font face="Verdana">___________ CD * <a href="http://www5.smutserver.com/babes/nudes/erotica/" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFDDFF"> Nightmares & Other Sex Fantasies</font></a> Original quality erotica & dark fantasy stories * <a href="http://www.topbucks.com/affiliate/clickthru.cgi?id=1448" TARGET="_blank"><font color="#FFFFDD"> Topbucks</font></a> 50 solid sites to promote, + content and many extras! * <a href="http://www.erasercash.com/wm.html?ID=1380291" TARGET="_blank"><font face="Verdana" color="#FFCCCC">ERASERCASH!</font></a> Earn $35 per sale + webmaster referrals 4 LEVELS DEEP</font>

10-09-2001, 01:08 PM	#2
Amputate Your Head There can be only one Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Somewhere else Posts: 39,075	The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

10-09-2001, 01:10 PM	#3
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	It would suck, but porn always finds a way. Myself, within the next month i'll be rolling out my new program Thug Cash. We wont be accepting credit cards, we will be sending "associates" to customers homes to collect payment. We will also be collecting more money if they use too much bandwidth. We will collect further fees if they stop using our site. That will be the $2500 dollar cancellation fee. Now, you might ask yourselves, "why would anyone pay $2500 to cancel a pay site subscription?" Well, trust me, they will. We'll be having a 50/50 program for webmasters OR 925 dollars per sign up. Now, you might be asking yourselves, "How can they afford to pay %925 for a single sign up?" Well, trust me, we'll make it all back and more. Look for more info coming soon.

10-09-2001, 01:16 PM	#4
Adultbouncer Rob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: a,a,a Posts: 50	<=======> ~ ~ ~ ~ smoking the wacky tabacky there son =)

10-09-2001, 01:20 PM	#6
flyingco Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: LA, CA, US Posts: 329	A little bit of background about myself. I used to work on credit card systems as a software developer and know the credit card systems well and all their quirks. Heck, in fact, I even know about epoch, ibill, ccbill and all the online systems out there. I know their fraud capabilities and to be honest, none of them are any good at all. So I started my own R&D company do deal with CC fraud and still working on it and still trying to get it finished. But the point here is this: Chargebacks occur because these systems do not have an advanced fraud deterent system in place. Fuck AVS aka Address Verification System which they call a fraud detection system. A european person in france does not have AVS on their stupid credit card. Fuck AVS because they only match the fucking number on your house and state and zip EG. If you stay at 1, White House Lane do you know what they look for in the AVS for address? That NUMBER 1. That is right that number ONLY. Not the whole fucking address. Do you know for Ibill, CCbill and any of these companies can actually do a sumbit on their processor with lets say the following to their gateway? User: Andrew Mean 1, White House Lane CA 46911 All they need to really send to the processor to get back an AVS code is 1, 46911 and not the entire line of address even? Enuff said. The bank is at fault but hey at least I am sure that when my project is finish it will rake in big bucks for me. Enuff said.

10-09-2001, 01:22 PM	#8
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	My program will have 0 chargebacks. Or else.

10-09-2001, 01:26 PM	#11
danevans Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Europe Posts: 1,295	There are always dialers

10-09-2001, 01:26 PM	#12
Rocky Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Living Off The Grid Posts: 3,022	the answer will be prepaid smart cards that have a re-loadable purse it's a win-win situation for everyone

10-09-2001, 01:29 PM	#14
qcmoney Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: NeverNever Land Posts: 291	It's been around for a long time. It's called the SET protocol. The question to ask is why hasn't the U.S. adopted it yet.

10-09-2001, 01:31 PM	#15
qcmoney Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: NeverNever Land Posts: 291	http://www.setco.org/

10-09-2001, 01:33 PM	#17
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	Remember, with Thug Cash, you dont even need a web site to promote it, all you have to do is give us your neighbors name and address and we take care of the rest. Your neighbor doesn't have a computer? No problem, its not needed.

10-09-2001, 01:41 PM	#21
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	flyingco... sounds like a really cool company and idea you have there... is your whole idea based on just scanning address information or is there more to it? seems like you would need some pretty tricky code to catch all the variations of apartment numbers, spellings of streets, abbreviations, case sensitivity, etc... I don't know much about it but could you explain to my why just checking the street number promotes fraud? Are you saying that there are hackers that can pretty easily guess? the street address or obtain that info... and then just run the charge with that info only? These porn sites should just do what we did way way back in the day on BBS systems... when you signed up for a BBS -- we had an autocallback feature to verify identity... YOu dial up a BBS -- enter in all your personal info (like your home phone number) -- then your system disconnects, and the BBS calls your modem -- you connect -- the BBS asks for your PW -- then the user enterse their PW -- there you go now you are verified... Of course this was tricky for long distance users... Personally I just called all my customers on the phone to verify identy... BUT for a porn site it would be SO easy to just have an automated system call the porn surfer at a time specified by the surfer... The surfer gets an automated phone call -- and then confirms the charge! How fucking easy would that be...? You could even have it make 3 attempts -- or a user specified number of attempts. You could even call international callers -- shit you can call Italy for $.08/min from the US -- these calls would be under 60 seconds anyway it... If you wanted to be a cheap ass you could even bill the surfers for the long distance verification process. Anyway this is not a new idea -- I've been verified this way before -- I just can't remember what service it was that I was using... Flyingco, hire me... ;) Where in LA are you?

10-09-2001, 01:51 PM	#22
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	"Punch in the head" -- the official drink of thugcash... http://www.flash.net/~smcint/drinks/...punchinthe.htm yummmmmmm.

10-09-2001, 02:02 PM	#23
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	flyingco = full of shit. I have to run out now but I'll be back to pick it apart later on tonite. Go with Garys program

10-09-2001, 02:03 PM	#24
lightswitch Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Butte, MT, USA Posts: 870	i use paypal now, but i used to get the billing address from the CC verifiction Co. & do manual address varifications. It was expensive, but worth it. Because in mail order by law someone can pretty much keep anything that is sent to them without paying for it. Thats why Columbia house is fucked & can never do anything if you never pay them.

10-09-2001, 05:15 PM	#25
m0rph3us Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Principality of Sealand Posts: 2,033	I think the issue here is chargebacks, customer support and methods of billing. Take those "free" AVSs out there that run a free trial. JoeBlow submits his CC number and he gets 'free' access to the AVS along with a trial that converts to $40 membership. Of course chargebacks will be skyhigh. Visa has many many many more customers than merchats so imposing HUGE fines is a simple answer for them. And I quote from a ZDNET article: ". At its discretion, Visa will charge noncompliant merchant accounts a $5,000 "review fee" in the first month of violation, escalating to $25,000 in the sixth month, plus a $100-per-charge-back handling fee. MasterCard is even more aggressive: After two months above the threshold, a merchant must pay a $25,000 fine per month. At six months, that fee jumps to $50,000. At 10 months or more, the fine is $100,000 per month." How do you think CCBIll and Ibill and Globill etc.. etc.. will handle this? It is a very likely future that VISA & the other major CCs might stop online transactions. Which brings me to my next questions: In Canada (and the US i belive) there's a system call Interact. With the use of a card representing your bank account and a PIN, you pay for goods at store directly from your bank account (no credit). If there would be a such system for the web (paypal?) then that would virtually eliminate chargebacks.

10-09-2001, 05:26 PM	#26
Wizzo 2011 GFY Hall of Fame! Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Back in Texas! Posts: 15,224	"In Canada (and the US i belive) there's a system call Interact. With the use of a card representing your bank account and a PIN, you pay for goods at store directly from your bank account (no credit)." If you can figure a way to process ATM cards on the web, it will make you VERY VERY wealthy...

10-09-2001, 05:39 PM	#27
Hooper Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A Free America Posts: 2,210	Wizzo.. i think quite a few people have tried to bring ATM cards to the web... chargebacks are virtually impossible and the only info you need is the card number and pin code... 2 pieces of nice anonymous information... a webmaster's dream so to speak. Unfortunately, the pulse, sum etc.. networks are megapricks & recurring billing wouldn't be an option. Maybe someday.. but as i recall... atmbilling.com has been promising releases for almost a year now :-( On the other hand...we've got a new billing solution that doesn't require any credit cards, checks, pin numbers or downloads and best of all it does TRUE age verification :-) Coming soon to an ad above you ;-))

10-09-2001, 09:50 PM	#28
Heinz Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Legoland Posts: 95	TheFly do you know this system: http://www.paybox.co.uk/236_272.html ?

10-10-2001, 01:54 AM	#29
mika Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Finland Posts: 1,561	Sorry to say but IMO the US system of handling payments in the Net and elsewhere is almost ancient history. We have stopped using checks since 80's or so. All payments are made directly from one's bank account to another's. Including pay checks and all. You can pay online and the money will be transferred in real time. The banks are almost only for grammas who dont have computers and who cant pay at home. Same goes for shopping in the Net. You order a product, and transfer the money from one bank account to another in real time. When I received my first check from clickcash in 97 and went with it to the bank, they were laughing at it and said it looks like MONOPOLY fake money.

10-10-2001, 03:14 AM	#30
Cerbernetic Registered User Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4	Hmm, a slight addition to what people have had to say. First of all, as long as there are jerkers off, there is a way The demand "DEMANDS" the supply. How does credit card fraud happen ? Well either people actually get the credit card details of other people, or they generate credit card numbers using valid algorithms, and make up the other details as they go along. First assuming we're dealing with people who generate the credit card numbers. The ideal thing to do is ask the user to provide some detail which is very difficult for the hacker in question to provide. Cvv2 numbers are a step towards this. The possibility of bruteforcing these does exist though, 3 digit numbers. A possibility that strikes me would be linking an email address with a cc number. The email address linked could be changed any time by in person request by the person in question. First of all, a confirmatory mail would be sent to the email address in question on signup. Only if the person clicked on a generated link would that person be signed up - otherwise the card would be flagged as suspicious. A simple notion perhaps - well, small things count here. Second, people who manage to get cc details. Well one cant do much about gas station fraud, where the employees copy the receipt details. However, one can find ways of plugging online fraud. Too many websites today do their own billing - store their credit card data on their own sites and thus raise the basic level of the security that they HAVE to maintain. Lose a password file and ok its bad. But lose your credit card database ? Catastrophe. The alternative is the billing systems - put the onus of managing the security on them. So far people have hacked sites like eggheads.com etc sure, but the record of systems like ccbill/ibill remain fairly clean. And there are tons of systems to choose from. Sure, theres the headache of maintaining the system. But the benefits are amazing - risk reduction is huge. Ultimately before we look at different solutions, like handling a different kind of verification, like for example the atm card system - why dont we examine the flaws in the existing system, the prevalent system. If we design a more elegant, simple, and security oriented system we might cut fraud down majorly. I havent said all that I wanted to say I might have missed out some stuff, and I might be unaware of a few facts/ideas/views. Just a few points from my personal opinion. Oof that was long winded

10-10-2001, 10:29 AM	#32
Toolz Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Podunk Posts: 690	Elvis, Quit changing the subject here. I'm more interested in "Thug Cash" ------------------ ARS Up to $44 per Signup. 13 New Sites including Voyeur Dorm

10-10-2001, 10:33 AM	#33
Gary Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kimmykims couch Posts: 6,110	At Thug Cash, theres no more worries about wether someone will sign up, the only worry you have is how much cash and assets that person has, because you get half of everything. Cash, investments, house, wife, etc...

10-10-2001, 11:20 AM	#34
Warphead Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kiss my yankee dick. Posts: 994	Are you going to mention in the TOS that cheating webmasters get fitted with cement shoes?

10-10-2001, 11:31 AM	#37
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	First thing to understand here is that Visa and MC don't really care about adult -- they care about chargebacks and fraud. They are in business to make money and they want to do web transactions -- lots of them, or they wouldn't spend the money they do on advertising how great it is to use your cc on the web. CC's are the predominant way to pay, and will remain so for quite some time. Even paypal users have to manage to get money into the system and most of them do it by cc. Here's an interesting article, it's long, but it should give you a very good idea of why adult takes the bad rap from the cc's that it does. Over the last couple years there have been some very questionable things done with cc's on the adult net -- things we are all paying for now in lower cb allowances and tighter rein by the cc's. http://riverfronttimes.com/issues/20...tml/page1.html And while I can't speak for any other processors, I do know how our fraud scrubbing works and it's nothing like what was posted here. We maintain a very acceptable cb rate, our banks and the cc's have assured us of that, and in doing so our fraud scrubbing still accounts for less than 10% of the declines that come through. The bulk majority of declines is and will remain bank declines -- people with no money in their account.

10-10-2001, 11:34 AM	#39
Speedy26 Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: MI Posts: 950	thats only a small sample of the clients i can get you from my secret yellow book!

10-10-2001, 11:49 AM	#40
kittykat69 Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Wonderland Posts: 695	Looks like Gary has more than made up for all the "huh?" and "stop crying" posts - aren't you all glad he's back!!! I want in on thug cash!!!! Kitty

10-10-2001, 11:56 AM	#41
flyingco Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: LA, CA, US Posts: 329	Quote: "flyingco = full of shit." I don't think so, I think you are the one full of shit all of the time anyways just judging from your post.

10-10-2001, 12:07 PM	#44
flyingco Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: LA, CA, US Posts: 329	Kimmykim: I think you are missing the point. Even Cybersource and eFalcon cannot guarantee a 1% total fraud scrub free solution. There is NO FRAUD FREE SCRUB SOLUTION. Look at the web and you will find that some ratios are as high as 50% or more.

10-10-2001, 12:32 PM	#46
flyingco Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: LA, CA, US Posts: 329	"Well fortunately for us, we dumped Cybersource a LONG time ago, because we realized they didn't get the job done. We have a proprietary scrub that not only does the job for us but is used by more people than you would know. As for me being full of shit, well, I'm processing cards every day and paying people every week on time and in full. Not sure what you are doing " I am doing what I like most. Being retired and doing what I like to do. I sold my processing card company a long time ago. Just that fraud is still interesting and that is why I am still doing fraud research. As for your propiertary system, since Cybersource is the leader and you can get the job done better, then I SUGGEST you try to list the company since it is so much better. Or are you afraid to do it? Enuff said. Take my challenge or go run into the corner and cry.

10-10-2001, 12:34 PM	#47
flyingco Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: LA, CA, US Posts: 329	Btw, I am 30 and I am retired after selling my card processing unit and you are still working. So if I am full of shit, what does that make you now? More full of shit because you are still working? You don't know me nor do I know you, so why start the name calling?