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xenophobic 11-20-2004 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon
Chompsky is not Famous. At least not in Canada at any rate. I could have sworn I saw the Militia thing on CNN right after 9/11. I have an image of a truck that was parked in the basement and something to do with fertalizer that snuffed out the gas in the explosion. And I remember the association with the Militia.

And no, Chompsky doesn't even mention the WTC 1993m he states the first attack on US soild ever.

I'm a college teacher by the way, I read more history bookls by more people in a year than most read in a lifetime. I just fear I may have confused some facts, and I know and accept I'm not infallible.

I will look into it, I'm happy to get a different point of view and I will look into it, I don't want to be misinformed. But realize the FBI is not reliable, neither is CNN. I mentionned earlier Associated Press and Reuters banned many American Newpapers because they were editing the articles. Very Dangerous. That didn't even make the papers in the state did it?

On your side check out this site www.bookmarks.uk.com - Articles about these events from people outside North America who have no self interests

I am afraid you are confusing two different events, the bombing of the Federal Building in
Oklahoma City, in which two American Citizens often thought to be part of a Militia, Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh, who made a bomb out of fertilizer were convicted.
The bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 was in a Van parked in the car park below the building, however several of the plotters of that are already in jail serving life sentances for their part in the bombing.
Whom would you consider a reputable source on this btw?

VeriSexy 11-20-2004 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon
True. Probably because it doesn't directly affect anyone here really. I mean it's just as horrible as the chechnians bobmbing that elementary school (It WAS Chechnyans by the way, not Al_Queda like CNN was 'reporting') - The US is playing a much more complex game with their own citizens. I think that causes much of the rage. You seem like a pretty intelligent Dude - check out Noam Chompsky's "Necessary Illusion" - Everything made sense after reading that. you can download the Massy Hall Lecture too and listen to it. It's about creating fear so people don't pay attention to reality. And you're right, more people should give a damn about this, where do Refugees come from? Hmmmmmm?
Creating Fear is the same game the NeoCons are playing


Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Paul Wolfowitz
Douglas Feith
William Luti
John Bolton
Paula Dobriansky

You should watch " The Power of Nightmares" (BBC documentary)


The Power of Nightmares

Wilber 11-20-2004 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon
Some Facts Based in Reality NOT in the US

US has never been invaeded. First Attack on US soil? Sept 11 2001 - welcome to the world

What's it like to be so wrong yet utterly stupid? You can't even spell invaded.
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor not to mention 1812 and a host of other British
and French attacks.

Icon 11-20-2004 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
I am afraid you are confusing two different events, the bombing of the Federal Building in
Oklahoma City, in which two American Citizens often thought to be part of a Militia, Terry Nichols and Timothy McVeigh, who made a bomb out of fertilizer were convicted.
The bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 was in a Van parked in the car park below the building, however several of the plotters of that are already in jail serving life sentances for their part in the bombing.
Whom would you consider a reputable source on this btw?

A-Ha! You're right. I thought something seemed off.

Chompsky is solid for a few reasons, one - He's a linguist, entereing field to become a philosopher. Two - He uses unequivical logic. His conclusions are based on the most logcal and simple possibilities. He can retain an incredible amount of information and see the bigger picture at all times. When he speaks, it's almopst hard to stay awake cause it's like he's reading an essay.

Jean Raulston Saul - he's pretty good at taking events and drawing logical facts from them - global terms for local events

Naomi Klien (Although she can be a little hollier-than-though at times), Haroon Sidiqui

those are a few. I am particular to print rather than internet, that's my personal Bias. The BBC at times can be pretty good, so can the CBC. Before the bush administration seized power, there were a few good maistream newsmedia as well, but it looks like they've put the crunch down.

how about u?

Icon 11-20-2004 11:54 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wilber
What's it like to be so wrong yet utterly stupid? You can't even spell invaded.
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor not to mention 1812 and a host of other British
and French attacks.
[/QUOTE

Pearl Harbour was a US Clolny in the 1940's, newly acquired at that.

war of 1812 was actually americans attacking the British in what is now called Canada. The farthest the British ever reached was New York from the North and I believe they made some naval incursions along the coast. But realize, your country wasn't the US at the time, you were terrorists. I believe Hunter S. Thompson said it best in his "The Hammer Head Shark" article saying The Duke would have kicked Thomas Jefferson's ass for being a rebel. International recognition of US nationhood came after the war of 1812.

French attacks? what the fuck are you talking about? Your constitution and declaration of independance were written France to piss off the British. Maybe it's time you hit the old library and not believe ANYTHING you see in hollywood movies

bluedevil 11-20-2004 11:57 AM

wow, heres to the server that let's them host this shit

Icon 11-20-2004 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VeriSexy
Creating Fear is the same game the NeoCons are playing


Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Paul Wolfowitz
Douglas Feith
William Luti
John Bolton
Paula Dobriansky

You should watch " The Power of Nightmares" (BBC documentary)


The Power of Nightmares

You're about the third person to recommend that movie to me! It's about time I get off these goddamn boards and watch it. I actually caught a flick called (This one will piss people off) "The Myth of the Liberal Media" - it's apparently similar to Power of Nightmares. Thank for the recommendation! I have to check it.

xenophobic 11-20-2004 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon
A-Ha! You're right. I thought something seemed off.

Chompsky is solid for a few reasons, one - He's a linguist, entereing field to become a philosopher. Two - He uses unequivical logic. His conclusions are based on the most logcal and simple possibilities. He can retain an incredible amount of information and see the bigger picture at all times. When he speaks, it's almopst hard to stay awake cause it's like he's reading an essay.

Jean Raulston Saul - he's pretty good at taking events and drawing logical facts from them - global terms for local events

Naomi Klien (Although she can be a little hollier-than-though at times), Haroon Sidiqui

those are a few. I am particular to print rather than internet, that's my personal Bias. The BBC at times can be pretty good, so can the CBC. Before the bush administration seized power, there were a few good maistream newsmedia as well, but it looks like they've put the crunch down.

how about u?

most of the information I have read about the above events I have read several books about: "The War against America", "Seeds of Terror" "Holy War, Inc." and a few others, however I do not adopt any one of the above theories and read the "middle", where events are discussed by all three.
As news sources I do read reuters, BBC and often use news.google.com which gives a multinational view of the same events.

Icon 11-20-2004 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wilber
What's it like to be so wrong yet utterly stupid? You can't even spell invaded.
Ever hear of Pearl Harbor not to mention 1812 and a host of other British
and French attacks.

Wilbur, I am too poor to afford a working keyboard. Please do not confuse lack of wealth with ;ack of knowlegde. it makes you look like an Ass. I'm sure you are not.

detoxed 11-20-2004 12:11 PM

How can you tell if they are civilians? They might not be in a uniform, but that doesnt mean anything.

Dalai lama 11-20-2004 12:13 PM

50

Icon 11-20-2004 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by detoxed
How can you tell if they are civilians? They might not be in a uniform, but that doesnt mean anything.
Nothing is as it appears. Good Point. Suicide bombers look like normal, slightly overweight people.....

Icon 11-20-2004 12:16 PM

Antwerp - Global Diamond Hotspot located in Belguim, Serria Leone, Where Diamonds come from, located in Africa. If anyone is not familiar with the situation in Sierra Leone find out. How People were murdered, raped and had their hands cut off with machettes so Kid Rock or Puff Daddy could have all them diamonds on their neck or waist?

xenophobic 11-20-2004 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Icon
Antwerp - Global Diamond Hotspot located in Belguim, Serria Leone, Where Diamonds come from, located in Africa. If anyone is not familiar with the situation in Sierra Leone find out. How People were murdered, raped and had their hands cut off with machettes so Kid Rock or Puff Daddy could have all them diamonds on their neck or waist?
How about when Bill Clinton, and the United Nations kicked out the "Executives Outcomes" mercenary group who actually handled the situation in Sierre Leone, and killed a lot of the people doing the killing better than the local government, and the United Nations - which actually lead to more bloodshed when they were expelled. 300 mercs controlled the country better than 17,000 U.N peacekeepers at a fraction of the price?!?!

Same in Angola.

SmokeyTheBear 11-20-2004 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by detoxed
How can you tell if they are civilians? They might not be in a uniform, but that doesnt mean anything.

ummm hundreds of women in fip-flops ??

And we didnt see ANY weapons not even a baseball bat ??

give me a break !!!!!!!!

Icon 11-20-2004 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xenophobic
How about when Bill Clinton, and the United Nations kicked out the "Executives Outcomes" mercenary group who actually handled the situation in Sierre Leone, and killed a lot of the people doing the killing better than the local government, and the United Nations - which actually lead to more bloodshed when they were expelled. 300 mercs controlled the country better than 17,000 U.N peacekeepers at a fraction of the price?!?!

Same in Angola.

Thats exactly it. When you have a resource (or Commidity?) Like Diamonds that carry such value, self interests reign over human rights. It was the same people doing the killings, keeping the cycle of habitual rape among the femaile popluation and young boys forced into the militias, but different people were manipulating them with promises of wealth

Nanda 11-20-2004 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crockett
Don't forget to mention how we bailed the French out in Vietnam besides that.. If the French were so good, then why do they still try to control these places? Simply for money the same reason the US invaded Iraq. The French govt is no better than the US govt same with the Brits as if you look at history the Brits were empire building in the mid east long before the US ever got involved.

You forget to mention the main reason the French and the Russians were against going into Iraq was because they were currently doing millions of dollars of business with Iraq illegally by-passing the sanctions.

Sure I don't agree with us going into Iraq and I think it was wrong, but don't hold the Frenchies up to be holier than hell when they are only out for their own interests. If the French would have been able to gain financially by going into Iraq they would have been along for the ride as well.

:thumbsup

Drake 11-20-2004 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crockett
Don't forget to mention how we bailed the French out in Vietnam besides that.. If the French were so good, then why do they still try to control these places? Simply for money the same reason the US invaded Iraq. The French govt is no better than the US govt same with the Brits as if you look at history the Brits were empire building in the mid east long before the US ever got involved.

You forget to mention the main reason the French and the Russians were against going into Iraq was because they were currently doing millions of dollars of business with Iraq illegally by-passing the sanctions.

Sure I don't agree with us going into Iraq and I think it was wrong, but don't hold the Frenchies up to be holier than hell when they are only out for their own interests. If the French would have been able to gain financially by going into Iraq they would have been along for the ride as well.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but the first part about bailing the French out in Vietnam is relatively meaningless. The war in Vietnam was meaningless. It was a clash between "Capitalism" and "Communism" on foreign soil. The US and French on one side and Communists on the other. Nobody bailed anybody out. The US was part of that war from it's inception as it was in just about every other 'satellite' war played out between the ideologies, like in Korea or any number of African countries.


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