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WarChild

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#1

Canadian Medical System

11-18-2004, 10:51 AM

What a fucking joke.

So two days ago I start having lower chest / abdominal pain .. So I go to the doctor. He flips his lid, wants me to go in an ambulance to the hospital. So I tell him I'm 5 minutes from the hospital, I drove myself to the doctor and I'll be fine getting to the hospital. A small argument errupts, and in the end I make it to the hospital under my own power.

5 Hours of tests, x-rays and monitoring and my heart is fine. Lungs too. Still in pain, but apparently not dying. Last thing the doctor does is order an ultra sound.

Yesterday the hospital calls and books me this morning at 9:00 AM for an ultra sound. I go, get in right away and it they send me back to Emergency.

11:30 rolls around, I'm still in the ER. I'm not hooked up to anything, not being monitored and no doctor has talked to me. So I start asking why the fuck I'm in Emergency. The nurse responds "It's standard practice when an ER doctor orders a test that you come back to ER for the results. This is because some patients don't have a family Doctor and we don't want anyone to slip through the cracks."

So I explain that I do have a family Doctor and I feel it's a giant waste of time and resources for me to be taking up an ER bed waiting for test results. The nurse doesn't agree.

Finally, I signed out against medical advice. Only then does the nurse tell me if there's a problem they'll call me, since I won't be at the hospital anymore.

And people wonder why our system is so heavily burdened in Canada. Ridiculous bullshit like this.

[/rant]

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Rich

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#2

11-18-2004, 10:57 AM

Keep in mind, if you were in America those tests would cost you $20,000.
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WarChild

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#3

11-18-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Rich
Keep in mind, if you were in America those tests would cost you $20,000.

And if I was in Costa Rica it'd cost me nothing (my health insurance is barely more per month in Costa Rica than the "free" system in Canada), it'd be done at a brand new hospital on brand new equipment.

It's sad that a Third World Medical system is better than Canada's.

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#4

11-18-2004, 11:00 AM

What a waste of time/ressource !

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WarChild

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#5

11-18-2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Basic_man
What a waste of time/ressource !

Exactly my point.

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#6

11-18-2004, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
What a fucking joke.

So two days ago I start having lower chest / abdominal pain .. So I go to the doctor. He flips his lid, wants me to go in an ambulance to the hospital. So I tell him I'm 5 minutes from the hospital, I drove myself to the doctor and I'll be fine getting to the hospital. A small argument errupts, and in the end I make it to the hospital under my own power.

5 Hours of tests, x-rays and monitoring and my heart is fine. Lungs too. Still in pain, but apparently not dying. Last thing the doctor does is order an ultra sound.

Yesterday the hospital calls and books me this morning at 9:00 AM for an ultra sound. I go, get in right away and it they send me back to Emergency.

11:30 rolls around, I'm still in the ER. I'm not hooked up to anything, not being monitored and no doctor has talked to me. So I start asking why the fuck I'm in Emergency. The nurse responds "It's standard practice when an ER doctor orders a test that you come back to ER for the results. This is because some patients don't have a family Doctor and we don't want anyone to slip through the cracks."

So I explain that I do have a family Doctor and I feel it's a giant waste of time and resources for me to be taking up an ER bed waiting for test results. The nurse doesn't agree.

Finally, I signed out against medical advice. Only then does the nurse tell me if there's a problem they'll call me, since I won't be at the hospital anymore.

And people wonder why our system is so heavily burdened in Canada. Ridiculous bullshit like this.

[/rant]

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GatorB

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#7

11-18-2004, 11:10 AM

And if you were in America and you didn't have insurance or money had a real problem you'd be dead.
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WarChild

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#8

11-18-2004, 11:14 AM

Originally posted by GatorB
And if you were in America and you didn't have insurance or money had a real problem you'd be dead.

Hospitals can not turn sick people away to die if they can't pay, even in the United States.

I would be classified as a professional. Any job I would take would include health insurance. I could afford my own without a problem.

People die in Canada on waiting lists. I'm not allowed to pay for say an MRI, I have to wait until my "free" turn comes around. Many people in financial situations such as mine travel to the United States for treatment.

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#9

11-18-2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
People die in Canada on waiting lists. I'm not allowed to pay for say an MRI, I have to wait until my "free" turn comes around. Many people in financial situations such as mine travel to the United States for treatment.

If Canada allowed people to "buy" their way in.. that would be super.
If there were 2 levels of care... free and paid I think the system would rock.
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#10

11-18-2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
Hospitals can not turn sick people away to die if they can't pay, even in the United States.

If I got sick and was diagnosed with cancer but told I could have a 95% chance of survival ONLY if I got treatment within 90 days, I'd be dead. There is not ONE hospital in the US that is REQUIRED ot treat me for my cancer.
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WarChild

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#11

11-18-2004, 11:16 AM

Originally posted by BradM
If Canada allowed people to "buy" their way in.. that would be super.
If there were 2 levels of care... free and paid I think the system would rock.

That'd be a start. I'm sorry if it's selfish, but I work hard for my money. If my health is at risk I should be allowed to spend my own money to help the situation if I so desire. I don't care that somebody that isn't doing as well as me doesn't have that option. Frankly, it's not my problem.

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WarChild

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#12

11-18-2004, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by GatorB
If I got sick and was diagnosed with cancer but told I could have a 95% chance of survival ONLY if I got treatment within 90 days, I'd be dead. There is not ONE hospital in the US that is REQUIRED ot treat me for my cancer.

I'd probably die on a waiting list for the surgery. Same shit, different pile.

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#13

11-18-2004, 11:18 AM

It's not a matter of not caring about other people man. It's about if you have the cash and don't want to die of a liver infection just cause there is a 8 month wait list... how is that selfish?
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WarChild

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#14

11-18-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by BradM
It's not a matter of not caring about other people man. It's about if you have the cash and don't want to die of a liver infection just cause there is a 8 month wait list... how is that selfish?

Hey I totally agree with you. I think that some people would argue that a two-tiered system is not "fair" to those forced to rely on the lower tier.

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#15

11-18-2004, 11:21 AM

Yes, our system is a mess. One of the primary factors is the abuse from the doctors themselves.

About 4 years ago I went in for my bi-annual physical. All the tests, xrays, blood etc.

I told my doctor, I'm too bloody busy to sit in your waiting room (okay, it was nicer that that), so please don't call unless there's something wrong...OTHER than my cholestorol being a little high.

He said fine.

3 days later I get a call from the nurse telling me the doctor wants me to come in.

After a restless night in bed and wondering what I had, I went back to the doctor.

I was in a fairly long lineup and heard two people in front of me tell me that there appointments were for 10:05 and 10:10 respectively. MY appointment was for 10AM.

I stood and waited for a seat to come available because the waiting room was PACKED. Over an hour later, I got in to see the doctor.

He pulled out my file and read the results, "It seems your cholestorol is a little high." I was in there for about 2 minutes.

I'm already fucking pissed about the hour long wait because the doctor was overbooked. I tore a strip off of him and went up to the administration to file a complaint about the abuse.

By abuse, I mean that our doctors are paid in 15 minutes blocks per appointment, regular ones that is. Physicals are 45 minutes I believe. This guy was BOOKING appointments 5 minutes apart.

Anyways, I told the administrator that he wasted my time by overbooking and making me wait, and my tax dollars were being thrown away when he's being paid for 15 minutes, when I'm only in there for 2 and he's knowingly booking them 5 minutes apart.

The adminstrator just looked at me and said, "That's the system, and there's nothing we can really do about it".

Oh, the administrator just happened to be my wife's gynecologist, so as a doctor himself, what else is he gonna say.

So, when people tell me that there's no money for our health system, I just tell this story and they shut the fuck up fast.
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#16

11-18-2004, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
I'd probably die on a waiting list for the surgery. Same shit, different pile.

You'd rather have the AMERICAN system? At least with the Canadian system maybe I could go to the doctor in the first place to get early diagnosis.
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#17

11-18-2004, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
Hospitals can not turn sick people away to die if they can't pay, even in the United States.

I would be classified as a professional. Any job I would take would include health insurance. I could afford my own without a problem.

People die in Canada on waiting lists. I'm not allowed to pay for say an MRI, I have to wait until my "free" turn comes around. Many people in financial situations such as mine travel to the United States for treatment.

Yeah but there's a reason for that. If a sick little girl who's mother stays at home and who's father works in a factory 38 hours per week (because 40 would require them to give them benefits) needs a cat scan why should she have to wait longer because some prick who had money bought his way before her?

Public health care isn't perfect .. but private sucks just as much.
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#18

11-18-2004, 11:27 AM

In Chicago I went into the emergency room and there was a black kid crawling on the floor who couldn't breathe too well and he was uttering Help me Help me and the doctors were ignoring him. I mean literally paid no attention to him. They took care of him later and I found out he was having an anemic attack.

I dont know anything abou anemia so I guess its no big deal to the staff, but I felt horrible for this kid, he was laying on the ground and couldn't move and begging for help.
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WarChild

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#19

11-18-2004, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by garett
Yeah but there's a reason for that. If a sick little girl who's mother stays at home and who's father works in a factory 38 hours per week (because 40 would require them to give them benefits) needs a cat scan why should she have to wait longer because some prick who had money bought his way before her?

Public health care isn't perfect .. but private sucks just as much.

See it's not that she'd have to wait longer because I skipped the public line. It's that she can't afford to pay for the private line and thus must wait in the public one. Private clinics could offer services without taking anything away from the public system. It's illegal in Canada now though.

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#20

11-18-2004, 11:29 AM

Oh yeah, don't get me started on the fact that we just built a 50 million addition on to our hospital, to make it "State-of-the-art", but we only have 2 pediatricians in a city of 50,000.

We don't have enough money to get any more out here, so we're paying to drive problem cases two hours by ambulance to the nearest pediatrician.
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WarChild

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#21

11-18-2004, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by GatorB
You'd rather have the AMERICAN system? At least with the Canadian system maybe I could go to the doctor in the first place to get early diagnosis.

I'll take American medical system along with the American taxation levels too. I could EASILY get insurance for the difference in taxes.

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#22

11-18-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by garett
Yeah but there's a reason for that. If a sick little girl who's mother stays at home and who's father works in a factory 38 hours per week (because 40 would require them to give them benefits) needs a cat scan why should she have to wait longer because some prick who had money bought his way before her?

Public health care isn't perfect .. but private sucks just as much.

In New Zealand you can choose, you can have free health care if you want, and for the most part it's excellent, but you will wait for non-urgent surgery.

Or you can get health insurance and get things done immediately.

In Canada there's NO option to go privately?

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#23

11-18-2004, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
See it's not that she'd have to wait longer because I skipped the public line. It's that she can't afford to pay for the private line and thus must wait in the public one. Private clinics could offer services without taking anything away from the public system. It's illegal in Canada now though.

What's illegal? Private health care?

So if I'm willing to pay whatever it takes for my health, which I am, I would be SOL in Canada?

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#24

11-18-2004, 11:35 AM

It really sucks, had to wait 2 hours to get a finger stitched when it was cut and bleeding like crazy. They said I was lucky, normally people wait 4 hours.

Didn't call 911 cause I know someone dieing couldn't have needed it........

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WarChild

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#25

11-18-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Sly
What's illegal? Private health care?

So if I'm willing to pay whatever it takes for my health, which I am, I would be SOL in Canada?

It's illegal in Canada to provide private health care.

If you are willing to pay whatever it takes for your health, you drive or fly to the United States to have it done.

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#26

11-18-2004, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
It's illegal in Canada to provide private health care.

If you are willing to pay whatever it takes for your health, you drive or fly to the United States to have it done.

Heh.

So its a great system for the poor because they receive "some" care, but it sucks for the rich (the people that pay for the poor, mind you) because they can't get decent care. Sounds like a wonderful system. Punish those who strive for excellence.

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#27

11-18-2004, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Sly
So its a great system for the poor because they receive "some" care, but it sucks for the rich (the people that pay for the poor, mind you) because they can't get decent care. Sounds like a wonderful system. Punish those who strive for excellence.

You got it. That's socialism for you. I don't mind it most of the time, but when I am dying of cancer I will be in the US getting treated thank you very much.
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#28

11-18-2004, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Sly
What's illegal? Private health care?

So if I'm willing to pay whatever it takes for my health, which I am, I would be SOL in Canada?

so are private casinos, private loteries, banks etc etc etc......

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#29

11-18-2004, 11:47 AM

I think there needs to be some private sector involvement in health otherwise there's no impetus to cut some of the fat in the public sector..

Many "socialist" countries already do this, Canada sounds as though it's dragging it's feet.

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#30

11-18-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by SilverTab
so are private casinos, private loteries, banks etc etc etc......

Private banks? What? What's the rationale behind that?

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WarChild

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#31

11-18-2004, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Sly
Private banks? What? What's the rationale behind that?

I'm not sure what he's talking about. We have plenty of private banks and Credit Unions in Canada. They're regulated federally of course, but they're not run by the goverment.

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#32

11-18-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by Sly
Private banks? What? What's the rationale behind that?

I am just guessing for government to maintain absolute control.

EDIT: Yeah.. we have credit unions. wtf.
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#33

11-18-2004, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by WarChild
What a fucking joke.

So two days ago I start having lower chest / abdominal pain .. So I go to the doctor. He flips his lid, wants me to go in an ambulance to the hospital. So I tell him I'm 5 minutes from the hospital, I drove myself to the doctor and I'll be fine getting to the hospital. A small argument errupts, and in the end I make it to the hospital under my own power.

5 Hours of tests, x-rays and monitoring and my heart is fine. Lungs too. Still in pain, but apparently not dying. Last thing the doctor does is order an ultra sound.

Yesterday the hospital calls and books me this morning at 9:00 AM for an ultra sound. I go, get in right away and it they send me back to Emergency.

11:30 rolls around, I'm still in the ER. I'm not hooked up to anything, not being monitored and no doctor has talked to me. So I start asking why the fuck I'm in Emergency. The nurse responds "It's standard practice when an ER doctor orders a test that you come back to ER for the results. This is because some patients don't have a family Doctor and we don't want anyone to slip through the cracks."

So I explain that I do have a family Doctor and I feel it's a giant waste of time and resources for me to be taking up an ER bed waiting for test results. The nurse doesn't agree.

Finally, I signed out against medical advice. Only then does the nurse tell me if there's a problem they'll call me, since I won't be at the hospital anymore.

And people wonder why our system is so heavily burdened in Canada. Ridiculous bullshit like this.

[/rant]

how is wanting to keep you where they can help you if you get worse a fucking joke? Sounds to me like you just got impatient.
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Sly

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#34

11-18-2004, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by iwantchixx
how is wanting to keep you where they can help you if you get worse a fucking joke? Sounds to me like you just got impatient.

He's saying it was a joke because they were wasting limited resources on him when somebody who needed immediate care could have been using them.

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WarChild

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#35

11-18-2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Sly
He's saying it was a joke because they were wasting limited resources on him when somebody who needed immediate care could have been using them.

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#36

11-18-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Sly
He's saying it was a joke because they were wasting limited resources on him when somebody who needed immediate care could have been using them.

that's true too, but if they really needed the bed they'd kick him out of it quick too. I've been kicke dout of a hospital bed before cause they had a patient who needed it more.
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#37

11-18-2004, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by WarChild
Hospitals can not turn sick people away to die if they can't pay, even in the United States

yes they do wake up
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#38

11-18-2004, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by WarChild
What a fucking joke.

So two days ago I start having lower chest / abdominal pain .. So I go to the doctor. He flips his lid, wants me to go in an ambulance to the hospital. So I tell him I'm 5 minutes from the hospital, I drove myself to the doctor and I'll be fine getting to the hospital. A small argument errupts, and in the end I make it to the hospital under my own power.

5 Hours of tests, x-rays and monitoring and my heart is fine. Lungs too. Still in pain, but apparently not dying. Last thing the doctor does is order an ultra sound.

Yesterday the hospital calls and books me this morning at 9:00 AM for an ultra sound. I go, get in right away and it they send me back to Emergency.

11:30 rolls around, I'm still in the ER. I'm not hooked up to anything, not being monitored and no doctor has talked to me. So I start asking why the fuck I'm in Emergency. The nurse responds "It's standard practice when an ER doctor orders a test that you come back to ER for the results. This is because some patients don't have a family Doctor and we don't want anyone to slip through the cracks."

So I explain that I do have a family Doctor and I feel it's a giant waste of time and resources for me to be taking up an ER bed waiting for test results. The nurse doesn't agree.

Finally, I signed out against medical advice. Only then does the nurse tell me if there's a problem they'll call me, since I won't be at the hospital anymore.

And people wonder why our system is so heavily burdened in Canada. Ridiculous bullshit like this.

[/rant]

so what is your bitch? you were inconvenienced a few hours?
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#39

11-18-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by sexyclicks
yes they do wake up

Not in California.

When I moved here I was dirt broke and hurt my knees pretty bad. They took me without insurance and setup a payment plan with me after I was treated.

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#40

11-18-2004, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Sly
Not in California.

When I moved here I was dirt broke and hurt my knees pretty bad. They took me without insurance and setup a payment plan with me after I was treated.

Yep and probably at a low or zero percent interest rate too.

It always amazes me that people say 1. People in the US you can't afford insurance - if you truly can't afford it, it's usually free and 2. That you will be allowed to die by the medical profession because you don't have insurance. Both are BS.
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#41

11-18-2004, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by WarChild
And if I was in Costa Rica it'd cost me nothing (my health insurance is barely more per month in Costa Rica than the "free" system in Canada), it'd be done at a brand new hospital on brand new equipment.

It's sad that a Third World Medical system is better than Canada's.

How would you rate Costa Rica is as a retirement place?

Paul
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#42

11-18-2004, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by BradM
If Canada allowed people to "buy" their way in.. that would be super.
If there were 2 levels of care... free and paid I think the system would rock.

That would fuck over all the poor people, the "two tiers" wouldn't last long. We had a hell of a fight to gain social health care, we can't fuck it up on purpose. People with money in Canada who think they need better care go to the USA.
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#43

11-18-2004, 12:25 PM

I rather do that then end up paying b ig bucks everytime i need a doctor

Originally posted by rayadp05

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#44

11-18-2004, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Peaches
Yep and probably at a low or zero percent interest rate too.

It always amazes me that people say 1. People in the US you can't afford insurance - if you truly can't afford it, it's usually free and 2. That you will be allowed to die by the medical profession because you don't have insurance. Both are BS.

You're right, Peaches...

ANY hospital in the US who is receiving federal aid.....must put aside a certain amount of beds for those who do not have insurance or are indigent.

And, that's a fact.

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#45

11-18-2004, 12:27 PM

Waiting lists are the main problem in Canada right now. I have serious pancreatic problems and I can't see a specialist because "we're booked 6 months in advance. Sorry kid."
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sacX

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#46

11-18-2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Rich
That would fuck over all the poor people, the "two tiers" wouldn't last long. We had a hell of a fight to gain social health care, we can't fuck it up on purpose. People with money in Canada who think they need better care go to the USA.

Why? It works in New Zealand... Just interested in why specifically you don't think it would work.

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Sly

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#47

11-18-2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Peaches
Yep and probably at a low or zero percent interest rate too.

It always amazes me that people say 1. People in the US you can't afford insurance - if you truly can't afford it, it's usually free and 2. That you will be allowed to die by the medical profession because you don't have insurance. Both are BS.

In my experience, a lot of the people who can't afford insurance simply choose to spend their money on other "wants" such as entertainment and eating out. I take care of my "needs" before "wants". Health is #1 for me, hell I moved 2000 miles away from home because of my health.

Everybody has different priorities.

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#48

11-18-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Goatse
Waiting lists are the main problem in Canada right now. I have serious pancreatic problems and I can't see a specialist because "we're booked 6 months in advance. Sorry kid."

Thats crazy man. Do you live close enough to the border for a trip down here?

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#49

11-18-2004, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Goatse
Waiting lists are the main problem in Canada right now. I have serious pancreatic problems and I can't see a specialist because "we're booked 6 months in advance. Sorry kid."

yup.

What's worse is when there is a strike, the backlog gets even worse. people needing surgery have to wait 6 months now because of our latest strike in south-eastern NB. Lab techs, cleaning, administration, everyone except nurses and doctors were on strike.

it's just as bad with the mental health clinic too
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#50

11-18-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by WarChild
I'm not sure what he's talking about. We have plenty of private banks and Credit Unions in Canada. They're regulated federally of course, but they're not run by the goverment.

my bad...

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