Be Honest. Who believes US is Losing in Iraq?

[blackmonsters]

Given the current situation I feel like the US is losing.

My reasons in somewhat order of importance.

1. The insurgents don't really have to win; they only need to keep the US shooting at them and running around for ever trying to capture/kill them.

2. Can't kill enough insurgents to matter because the idea of resistance must be killed.

3. We are stepping up the fighting instead of it slowing.

4. The insurgency is almost a carbon copy of the Tet offensive in Vietnam which sealed the fate of the war. (fighting all over the contry instead of a few major fronts).

5. It appears that we hold no ground that we can really say is secure. Bombs exploding in the green zone for example.

6. I can't think of, nor have I heard of, a real strategy other than kill all the enemy; which isn't working.



Anyone have a winning strategy (other than nukes) I would like to know what it would be.


PS: I will NOT call anyone a moron in this thread.

[webmaster x]

well let time tell about it.

[tony286]

Originally posted by webmaster x
well let time tell about it.

very true

[BRISK]

The insurgents are certainly winning the war on costing America more and more billions of $$$

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by webmaster x
well let time tell about it.

Time will always tell; but isn't time in favor of the insurgency?

Long drawn-out battles are not where the US strength is.

[xenophobic]

Originally posted by blackmonsters

Anyone have a winning strategy (other than nukes) I would like to know what it would be.

I am not sure about a winning strategy, but I can tell you what is not helping matters: President Bush said that other countries could not get contracts in Iraq unless they helped with the War.

So other countries who did not agree with the War cannot help reconstruction - the conditions in Iraq (electricity, water, food and employment) are fueling insurgency - and with money coming in from hostile governments and terrorists the insurgents are paying Iraqi's who have no income to fight or bribing Iraqi's into releasing information on contractors locations etc.,

You can not kill insurgency when the conditions that created the insurgents to begin with still exist, that is why the insurgents have targetted contractors and aid workers, if you can stop the reconstruction efforts more people will turn to insurgency.

[MickeyG]

we may not be getting the job done correctly, but we're certainly not losing.

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by MickeyG
we may not be getting the job done correctly, but we're certainly not losing.

Please give us some examples of how we are winning.

I would say we were if :

1. The number of insurgencts were shrinking...not.

2. The number of secure areas were increasing...not

3. We had the political edge....certainly not.

4. Allies were not pulling out. (why leave moments before the winfall?)

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by xenophobic
I am not sure about a winning strategy, but I can tell you what is not helping matters: President Bush said that other countries could not get contracts in Iraq unless they helped with the War.

So other countries who did not agree with the War cannot help reconstruction - the conditions in Iraq (electricity, water, food and employment) are fueling insurgency - and with money coming in from hostile governments and terrorists the insurgents are paying Iraqi's who have no income to fight or bribing Iraqi's into releasing information on contractors locations etc.,

You can not kill insurgency when the conditions that created the insurgents to begin with still exist, that is why the insurgents have targetted contractors and aid workers, if you can stop the reconstruction efforts more people will turn to insurgency.

You may have something there.
I would deffinately make that call if I were Bush.
If other countries build in Iraq I'm sure they'd want to protect their investments.

It's like Bush wants some kind of economic winfall from the war and doesn't want to share it.

[xenophobic]

Also, am I the only one amazed at seeing groups of heavily armed Iraqi's dancing in the streets, hoisting their AK-47's in the air? I would have thought a number one priority at the end of the War would be to disarm a heavily armed population, in order to quell a possible armed uprising at a later date.

Just like the looting that went on in Baghdad - where soldiers stood back and watched. If you allow lawlessness don't be surprised when all of these things come back to haunt you.

[Stephen]

Originally posted by xenophobic
So other countries who did not agree with the War cannot help reconstruction...

Exactly. If they didn't support it, why should they benefit from it?

[CybermedAndy]

Well if we go by the casualty count over the last 6 days, the score is about 1200-3 .

[xenophobic]

Originally posted by Stephen
Exactly. If they didn't support it, why should they benefit from it?

Did you read what I said? The only people whom would benefit is the United States, while the insurgents stop the reconstruction it breeds more insurgents.

Think bigger than the dollar amount, think more on how reconstruction would help the Iraqi's, I think months without clean water, electricity and air conditioning, and no job would have you willing to fight, or possibly take money to fight.

[sacX]

Originally posted by andykidd
Well if we go by the casualty count over the last 6 days, the score is about 1200-3 .

30+ marines have died.

[Martin]

They're not losing but they will never win...

America will never win the hearts and minds of the people in the middle east, They've been fucked over too many times..

[blackmonsters]

Originally posted by andykidd
Well if we go by the casualty count over the last 6 days, the score is about 1200-3 .

Body counts are for people who just want to kill; not for people who actually want to win.

The Russians lost more lives(20 million+) than the Germans in WWII; but who won?

The Viet Kong lost scores more lives than the US; do you think we won that one?


Body counts are for caveman wars where the enemy only numbered in a few hundred.

Any country willing to fight a war these days has several million people they can afford to lose.

[Webby]

Losing?? There is absolutely nada chance of winning.

Winning what?? The occupation of a country which has a history of fighting off others long before the US was ever heard of??

There are no "winners" in this lot... Only an idiot would even think of that, tho, I forgot we have idiots involved.

If the Iraqi war is supposed to be "it" - this war has not even started yet.

There is now a very strong element in the largest number of enemies of the US in the history of that country.

Is anyone so really that stupid to think that, after having killed off loads of innocent people as part of the war, - that others, often relatives and family members, are going to sit and smile at the US??

Welcome to reality. The main show will commence after the US has escaped out of Iraq. Get comfortable, the show will last for decades.

[Rochard]

This seems to be a hand ful of troops that refuse to accept the fact that they lost.

During WWII, after Japan surrendered there were no problems. However, after Germany surrendered there were problems for years. A group of the German military banded together calling themselves the Wolverines. The continued to put up resistance for five years after Germany surrendered.

This is their chance to rebuild their country, leave their third world status, step up the plate and rule the middle east. But a handful of people miss the "old way" where they ruled a certain area by force.

[clueless]

Everybody does, even AMERICANS!!! They just feel much better if they keep on denying it!!! Hoping things would change in the near future.

[Lykos]

It's not like usa is losing...but didn't need that war as first place..many ppl are death on boath sides....

[PerfectionGirls]

Winning the battles and loosing the war? hmmm I might think thats close to how I feel.

[Doctor Dre]

I don't know ... and I don,t care anymore

[s9ann0]

I think maybe the more civilians get killed and shitted on getting the "insurgents" the more are likely to become insurgents against the troops

[Goatse]

Originally posted by Martin
They're not losing but they will never win...

America will never win the hearts and minds of the people in the middle east, They've been fucked over too many times..

Even if they win the war and bring some kind of order to Iraq, who would the people elect? A secular leader like Saddam or an Islamic fundamentalist? The latter, of course. In that sense, the war will never be won.