50 dead muslims

The term straw man is broader than that, sparky. It also includes misrepresenting someone's viewpoints, then critizing those. And guess what? Terminology is an integral part of someones position in a debate. (and no, I did not "admit" that "me and mine throw the words 'prejudiced,' 'ignorant,' 'bigot' all over the place")

Hey this isn't 2nd world war you idiot :feels-hot

You all, yes. People of your opinions on race go into the same category in my view. You have the same terminology, ways of doing things, and ideals, as I have already mentioned. I don't understand why you gripe about this. Wait, I do! You want to steer the discussion away from the easily drawn conclusion that you are a prejudicial and ignorant bigot, the very opposite of what you try to make yourself out to be. :1orglaugh

terrorizing these schools with bombs is just as bad. What they need to do is take proper action against ALL extremists, not to all the people that are muslim, that is rediculous.

They are here to teach muslims about the islam.
That's what i'm talking about.

I could easily answer your question as to why western governments have switched to pro-third world immigration policies but it might get me kicked off of this board.

and what's wrong with that?

The fact remains, sidetracking efforts aside.

Are you really THIS stupid?

I am not making myself out to be anything. I combine facts with reason, a concept apparently completely alien to you.

Now, the reason that I object to you stating that my viewpoints belong to some vague, undefined ideology of which only you know what it is is quite simple: I won't accept some moron grouping me with people and viewpoints I don't know or accept.

Your only argument appears to be that I am "one of them". Who the hell are "they"?!

You have long since resorted to epithets and anger, I think it is fair to say that this discussion, or rather sidetracking attempt, is over. :)

I don't think Lensman has the habit of banning people based on political convictions or opinions, so I'd encourage you to share yours.

Please go back under your rock.

Agreed.

There's a weak non-answer

What sidetracking? And what fact?

I make the assumption that the aim will be too broad when citizens take "the fight" into their own hands on what I see in society. You see, I'm Dutch, and in in my own society I see how most of the anger that should be aimed at extremism is instead aimed at islam as a whole.

I also read in the paper this morning that a bomb went off at a muslim school here in Holland, which confirms my statement that "the enemy" will be taken too broadly when people "take care of things themselves".

Any other questions?

Agreed.

If it is, you are the clear loser. You used more straw man arguments in this discussion than most people use in an entire discussion.

Prejudicial "people" always seek to explain away their hate and bigotry, wouldn't you all agree?

:1orglaugh

Weak yes but I don't see why I would have to explain that this is not right.

Once again, you prove that you're a clueless idiot who has no real arguments whatsoever and instead resorts to empty accusations.

Yes, because clearly *I* am the one using epithets and the one raining my frustration out on an online message board. :1orglaugh

Assuming you'd like people to join your way of thinking, teaching people why you believe what you do is the first step to accomplishing that goal.

Ohh, look at how many bad words you can throw at me! You are sooo big and your brain is sooooo succulent!

Thanks for the excuse to lower myself to your level. It's quite educational. :)

No, because you are the one who's not using any actual arguments and instead resorts to logical fallacies.

I may call you an idiot, a moron, a feeble-minded fool, an ignoramus, a dimwit, a dipshit, an ass, a boob, a dunce or even a retard, but the insults are accompanied by actual arguments. :glugglug

Arguments, monkey, arguments. I am still waiting. :glugglug

trying to get rid of hate and violence with more hate and violence usually doesn't work :2 cents:


this murder has nothing to do with the laws or tolerance

If you are right, then why on earth would you need to not only use an excessive amount of epithets, but also CAPITALIZE them? One can but wonder...

Especially when you use hate and violence towards those who weren't even involved with the original hate and violence.

Arguments for what, exactly? I have already said why I classify you along with people I see as your peers in intention and action, on the left side of the political scale. I believe I am perfectly reasonable in doing so. If you don't think so, well, tough luck, because that's entirely subjective. :)

Okay since some people might have a different opinion here's mine.

Most muslims have a hard time living by our standards.
They come here so they have to follow our rules and have to know what's wrong and what's right in this country.

An imam has quite some respect and they basicly tell them about the islam and how to behave.
If this imam comes from a country like marroco with a different culture from here plus the fact that most of these foreign imams are pretty extreme it's not the best person to teach people in this country.
Most of these imams hate the west.... think gay people should be killed.... think your daughter should be punished (banned from the family or even killed) if she loses here virginity before she gets married... thinks it's okay to beat your wife etc. etc.
That might be the way it is where they came from but not here.

Still waiting for you to give actual arguments for your position.

So far, your only argument is something along the lines of "the mean man called me bad words!" :glugglug

That's interesting. Why do you even need to use epithets, if not because of frustration? But here we go;

Do you have any proof to support your opinion?

Arguments for your position, for any of your statements in this thread... for anything, really.

Now, please, do tell me, who are "my peers"? What's my intention? What are my actions? And why am I "on the left side of the political scale"? (did he just call me a liberal? lol)

You may believe that you are "perfectly reasonable", but being reasonable requires actual REASONS... and you seem completely unwilling to state those.

But they won't leave you alone.....Period..... they want 2 kill you:2 cents:

Yes, I am frustrated. That's because dealing with stupid people frustrates me, and you happen to belong to that group.

in some places I don't think it's ever stopped:Graucho

The concept of perpetual revolution seems somewhat counter-intuitive :winkwink:

but not your murder, think about it.

I have already provided reasons, on two seperate occasions. I am beginning to think that you have some sort of unfortunate mental condition that hinders you from juggling more than one sentence in your head at the time. :(

Beyond that, who are you to nitpick over someones subjective opinion? Your own opinion of who you think can be classified together as ideologically similar people on various political and social issues is perfectly subjective as well.

[humorous intention]Aha! You must provide argumentation for that position, which I can pretend were never posted in five minutes so that I can further raise my postcount.[/humorous intention]

First of all, straw man arguments aren't reasons, they're logical fallacies.

Secondly, when you throw your subjective opinion into a discussion, and especially when you actually try to use it as an argument, it ceases to be just a personal opinion and becomes a valid target for criticism.
Oh, and please, do tell... what is my "own opinion" of who I think can be grouped together as "ideologically similar people"?

Argumentation: almost every post you made in this thread contains a logical fallacy. Since logical thinking is one of the main aspects of intelligence, such a complete absence of it can be described as stupidity.

See how easy it is? :glugglug

Some people are hard to convince.

http://www.novatv.nl/index.cfm?fusea...rtage_ id=901

http://frontpage.fok.nl/news.fok?id=24806

and there's alot more to be found.
It's not just about imams from other countries but about all radical imams.
It's in dutch so you might want to find something or someone to translate it.

Unfortunately, I can't read Dutch :(

Het gaat nadrukkelijk niet om een onderzoek naar alle moskeeën in Nederland. NOVA heeft alleen gekeken naar de uitingen van een groep radicale imams waarvan de meeste zich hebben georganiseerd in een stichting met anti-westerse opvattingen.

My stated reasons were not straw men or logical fallacies, you really need to educate yourself on these terms.

I stated that the people I see as having the same terminology, ideals, and actions end up as being classified as roughly the same bunch in my eyes. I know you wish you could change that, but you are not a dictator and this is not some communist society.

One thing which is not subjective is that you have previously and currently is using politically correct terms such as "bigot," "ignorant," and so forth. Your original presumption about who the Dutch would "aim" their defense at was an easy picking as far as applying these very same terms go, whether you agree or disagree until you are blue in the face.

:)

well, as soon as muslims kill a few French and Germans this board will really be hopping :helpme

Ik houd van het wanneer mijn flatulentiegeuren zoals kaas :glugglug