:thumbsup I am sick of talking to friends and other people that aren't webmasters who seem to think that running a site doesn't cost any money. Why should I let them suck my money out, trade my contetnt on p2p things,cost me money via bandwith, etc and not try to sell them something in exchange or at the very least get a little something from their visit (traffic exchange, etc). Sure if they are chained pop ups with attempted downloads that may overstep things but I am slightly sick of people acting as if it is a personal insult if you try to sell them something they are trying to take for free.

So if you are in a mall and walk into a store and don't buy anything, a clerk has the right to follow you out of the store and shove advertisments in your face? Would you EVER go back to that store again?

I wonder how they got the idea that everything on the internet should be free in the first place?

Well put :thumbsup

It's refreshing to see some sensibility in this thread.

-Dino

hmmmm, considering 100s of millions of dollars a year are made thru popup sales, you have no point. your analogy is a poor one.
If people were that offended by popups, they wouldn't buy from them.
here's a news flash for you: they do.
:1orglaugh


if only more posters were in this business and not just pretending to be.

No you are just too obtuse to understand it.

I bet you were one of the first to put your phone # on the "Do not call list" and I'm sure you just LOVE getting junk mail and seeing flyers underneath your windsheild wiper when you come of a store.

Have any % on how many people that have thier pop-up blockers over-ridden turn into paying customers? I would say the % is VERY VERY small.

If someone WANTED pop-ups they wouldn't have a pop-up blocker now would they?

Boy you are full of yourself. You're nothing a nobody. Color me unimpressed by your assinine and inane posts.

You say "this business" like you're curing cancer. We sell porn. Get over yourself already.

no put all the same a customer can't come in and demand they take down all their promotional posters and upsell materials just because he thinks he shouldn't have to look at them.

I'm not at all supportive of browser hijacking, etc but one or two popups, sorry but I am not a charity.

I'm sorry!
I've only been buying and selling popups since they were invented.
what is your experience in the business that gives you the understanding that I don't understand it?
(being a surfer doesn't count) :1orglaugh

see surfer, this is why you don't understand.
your example is meaningless (again)
let me dumb it down so you understand.
If you own a store that sells magazines would you allow people to come in and read them for free? No you wouldn't. If the only payment you charged was for them to look at an advertisement, it wouldn't appear to be unreasonable. It would only seem unreasonable if someone gave you blinders and told you you didn't have to see the advertisement (after all, those magazines should be free, screw the fact that they cost the store owner money). The store owner would then have the right to slap the blinders off your face when you entered his store.

Now if thats not dumbed down enough for you, replace "store" with "website"
"magazine" with "content" and "advertisement" with "popup"
(that's about as dumbed down as I can go)

anyone can *guess* which is all you've done.

It's not up to the surfer what they want when they go to someone's website. It's up to the site owner. if you don't like popups, don't go to the site. its that simple unless you're there to steal content.



can this really be said by a kid posting from mommy's house?

nah, I say "this business" like its the multi billion dollar business it is. (its hard to believe from your perspective but then, I'll bet a lot of things are):1orglaugh

a lot of money is made through KP

a lot of money is made through child labour

a lot of money is made through snuff

a lot of money is stolen from others through criminal acts


... so these are ok with you as well?

yeah, they are exactly the same thing

No they are not and I was not suggesting that.

But they are all exploitive - as are popups.

It's the mindset of forcing someone vs earning their interest/patronage.

The internet has incredible potential, but the one complaint I hear again and again has to do with sites which 'assault' their visitors.

Many web surfers admit they are afraid/reluctant to use the internet solely because of this.

Tools have been developed to help protect them.

And, in the spirit of 'if we want your opinion, we will give it to you', 'assaulters' are bent on breaking these tools.

dear idiot surfer, you were suggesting that and popups are not "exploitive"

yeah, kinda like forcing someone to pay for their groceries instead of just letting them pay if they feel like it.
imbecile

imagining that an exit pop or any other pop is an assault is childish at best.
"oh, please don't make me look at that ad! I feel so violated"
:1orglaugh
I'll wait while you find a link to this info and see how they quantify "many"
otherwise, we'll just figure you're lying to make a point.

no, tools have been developed to let them steal content.

as the police are bent on stopping theives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by GatorB
No you are just too obtuse to understand it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


i guess this punk ran away when it was time to put up or shut up.:1orglaugh

WTF? Punk? Run away? WTF does your idiotic quoting of yourself have to do with ANYTHING? I like how you use smilies since YOU are the ONLY one to find your posts amusing. Can anyone translate 12milimeterdick's posts because I can't see how they are gemain to this topic?

Don't sweat it.

Just consider him another unwanted popup.

He just keep launching himself when you try to close the window.

I'd pretend that my experience in this biz and with popups wasn't "germain" to this topic too if I didn't have any.:1orglaugh

oh, and you're right, the smilies are there because I enjoy dicking with halfwits.

Now answer the question, punk.
what experience do you have with popups that makes you think anything that falls out of my mouth on the subject could possibly be wrong?
:1orglaugh

good one, surfer.:1orglaugh

I think people are getting away from the real issue here:

There's nothing wrong with pop-ups, selling thru exit consoles, etc.

The issue is when someone has specifically set up their system to block such things, if (essentially) hacking their system to force something which they have specifically made clear that they don't want/object to gets "shoved in their face".

I know some pop-unders that work well but XP SP2 firewall catches it.

But it still works .. odd

show me this city or mall where you walk outside and don't see advertisements on billboards & buses & other store windows...I GOT to find this neat lil eutopia...

don't be a tease....post it ;)

Listen up MORON. What are you RIGHT about? Or what am I wrong about? WTF is your deal? Try keeping up with the POINT of this thread. I do not believe that anyone( at least not I ) questioned whether pop-ups make money or not. That's not even WTF we are talkling about. It's about the ethics of popping them up when a surfer specifically has it set up to where he doesn't want them. The fact that you can make money doing that doesn't make it right to do it. Of course I suspect that the word ETHICS is not in your vanacular.

I'm talking about a clerk FORCING and advertisement in your face. try reading. Here let me help.

http://hookedonphonics.com

When you walk onto a public street (internet) and your sensitive eyes stumble upon an advertisement is that FORCING you to see something?

I'm thinking yes...you are walking around with your eyes open...

Moving your eyes away from the ads so as to not see them is akin to closing a popup down, I'm not talking about CJ style shit here, let's not get off on that tangent...

Exactly :thumbsup

It's any 'unwanted surfing experience' that is at issue here - whatever form it takes on (popups, popunders, popintos, popouts).

When my visitor says NO I understand it to mean NO and I respect it.

-Dino

would be nice of the major TV networks would quit showing me bleeding vagina products during lunch...or dinner...but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon


if everyone thought the way you did, the world would be a nicer place, on this we agree

Listen try READING the anology I presented. Going into a store = going to a website. Walking down the street does NOT = shopping or surfing a website. Do you aimlessly wander around the net? Um no.

Of course. And we do have our preferred channels (some of this is influenced by what they offer and how).

BUT, when I change channels on my TV, it does NOT switch back to the channel I came from or to another one I never even asked for.

That's a big difference between TV and unwanted popups.

Both have ads, banners, etc. But you can still change the channel without fear of being bushwacked.

-Dino

so then you're going to continue to dodge the question of you having any experience.
I figured that, surfer.

now onto your inability to understand ethics.
It is unethical to go to someone's website take what they have to offer, and block their means to make money off of it.

this is what you dopey surfers don't understand.

wrong, surfer. the real issue is someone taking what your website has to offer and then blocking your means to pay for it.

your dopey argument is the same as saying a business has no right to charge you for merchandise if you can find a way around paying for it.

Dodge WHAT question. You are an IDIOT to the Nth degree. who fucking cares how many pop-up clicks you buy or what expericence you have with them. WTF does that have to do with ANYTHING? Quit being an ass. Why in the fuck do you care if another webmaster chooses to not use pop-ups? How is that any of YOUR business? It's not. Anyways is there an ingore feature here? Blocking 12minidicks posts would raise the average IQ of the posts I read by at least 50-60 points

BETA TESTERS WANTED: 12clicks Popup Blocker - Works on SP2!

Time to change the channel...
-Dino

Thanks much! :thumbsup

Good read

Dude quit arguing about it...

Nobody has the right to tell you how to run your site, all they can do is give suggestions..

If the argument is about the ethics of having popups, its a stupid argument.

Whoever used the stupid argument about it being like a shop owner running after you in the parking lot.. is an idiot sorry.

Heres a better example..

You run an arcade hundreds of kids come in everyday , but only about 10 of them actually have quarters , the rest are just surfers looking for free kicks.

The popup is nothing more than an advertisement blaring in the speakers or like the hugely common practice of every major retailer to display ads for other company's on the back of the receipts..

Anyone who says different is either

A) Not a webmaster and most likely never owned anything.
B) just looking for an argument
C) menatlly defective
D) all of the above

shall I ask it a 3rd time or will you pretend you still don't know that I asked what experience you have on the subject that leads you to believe I'm wrong?

said the kid posting from mommy's house.
everyone who's interested in the subject.
you see child, you can only pretend to know about this biz until you come up against someone who actually does know about the biz.
:1orglaugh
knowing what you're talking about?
it has everything to do with it unless you're just some surfer thinking the internet is free.
I certainly don't care what losers choose to do but I generally don't let the rabble misinform the group about things I know about.
yeah, find the ignore feature quick, you wouldn't want to be forced to explain you've got nothing more than the experience of a surfer.:1orglaugh

Tha would be me. So when you and 12click get together are you a top or bottom?

Um no it's not. Show me an arcade that gives out as many free tokens as possible then expect kids to pay for them later?

Consider your dumb ass IGNORED!

wtf are you talking about idiot??

How does what you just said have anything to do with popups..??

You are truly a moron to the nth degree

I dont expect anyone to pay me later dipshit..

Its called advertising !!! do you understand ?? need a dictionary ??

good luck on your crusade to stop advertising gatorb .. LOL

Let me guess , you rode the short bus to school

Thats what i thought, a mouthpiece train with no engineer..

How bout gatorb shows us his website with no advertising that makes money ?? or any website for that matter.

So, you offer "free" stuff and then whine like a bitch when people take you up on your marketing? If you don't want people to "take advantage" of your offers DON'T MAKE THOSE OFFERS. If you owned a brick and mortar store, you'd probably try to force people to buy something before you let them leave. That gimmick has been around the adult industry for hundreds of years - it's called a "clip joint" (and various other names). you con a "customer" into comming in for a "free show", and then hand him a bill for something (like $100 for the dancer's "Champagne Cocktail") and then have a goon stand between him and the door so he can't bolt on you.

Oops, I'm sorry, I said "like" a bitch.

And stop calling me "surfer" Sonny. Call me back when you've been in the adult business for 25 years like I have.

Hmm thats strange , i have not responded ,quoted or otherwise mentioned 12clicks at all.

It seems you have been riding 12clicks nuts this whole thread, i think you have your fantasy confused my recently lobotomized friend.:1orglaugh

I dont think anyone said free stuff. I also didnt see anyone whining.

The price of admission to my sites is i will advertise how i please and if they dont find it a deal i dont expect them to come back.

You claim its like that but in reality its more like..

You give the guy a "free show"and in return as he leaves you hand him a flyer telling him how to get a better live longer show for a small amount of cash.

Sounds like a deal to me, quit crying, nobody is sending anyone a fucking bill you moron so your example shows me you have to make up shit in order to get your point across.


NEXT MORON PLEASE... ( geez gfy is spitting out low grade morons these days )

see surfer, you still don't get it.
"stuff" as you call it, is offered in lue of looking at advertising. by blocking that advertising, you're blocking the implied transaction.
(from your other posts I'm guessing that this is over your head)

well thats a quaint story with nothing to do with this argument but I doubt that matters to you.

ahahaha, this is the only business where nobodies can claim to have been around for 25yrs but nobody's ever heard of them.:1orglaugh
surfer, call me back when you've accomplished something online. (anything):1orglaugh

How did they get to your site? How can you complain about them "using your resources" and not paying for it? You can claim all you want that this isn't about the offer of "free stuff", but that'sa the hook EVERYONE uses to get customers. If you don't understand that, then you're seriously deluded about how this business works. Free galleries, sample vids, whatever. It's all about the come on to try to sell sign-ups. Well, you offer loss leaders, you have to be prepared to take the loss sometimes.


That's only because you choose not to. Everyone who is saying they have the "right" to force anything on exiting traffic because "they are taking my shit and not paying for it" is whining. But whining bitches never think they are whining, do they?

So, you walk into a theater which says "free movie", and on the way out they tell you "Now you have to sit though this sales pitch for timeshares for 1/2 hour". You say "WTF?" and THEN they tell you "if you dont find it a deal we dont expect them to come back".
If you want to "charge", whether it's $ or by forcing anything on someone who clearly doesn't want to do it, you'd better do it on the way in, not by ambushing them on the way out (NB: remember we're not talking about simply pop-ups, but hacking someone's OS so that you disable their pop-up blocking).

ONE of my sites:

www.Utopiaguide.com (25,549 members as of today)

anything else to say, bitch?

some people like it when Bill Gates or the government tell them what they can or cannot do, even if it's a 'preference' thing...




how is a popup 'hurting' people again?

<assuming you're not displaying obscene material or CJ style popups until a computer crashes>

No, what we're talking about is you try to hand the guy a flyer, and when he puts his hand out in a "no thank you" gesture, you grab him by the lapel and shove it down his throat.

do I have anything else to say about a chat board claiming to have 25k members.
yes, I have this to say:

ahahahahahahaha, come back when you have a business surfer.:1orglaugh