Originally posted by Mike33
We didn't evolve from the chimp.
We didn't evolve from the chimp.
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Evolution doesn't say we evolved from chimps or apes. Didn't you read the whole thread?I still love everybody -
The wood hadnt evolved into a box yet, maybe as time goes on and we evolve, instead of trees growing, boxes will grow, then the monkeys can climb on the boxes to get the bannanas without humans help.Why wasn't there always a human there to put boxes in a room near a banana?
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I'm not asking you to prove it, I'm asking for some evidence.Originally posted by stocktrader23
You don't prove scientific theories, you attempt to falsify them.
You don't prove stocktrader23 theories either.
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That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god. Try again bucksnort.Originally posted by stocktrader23
I have a theory that in the center of the earth resides an alien race. Prove me wrong or believe it.
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My mother in law is a nurse. She bases her entire life and thinking around what she read in medical books while she was in school over 30 years ago even though much of it is completely wrong.Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.
Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?
Happens all the time.
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What? Your question doesn't make senseOriginally posted by CET
Then how can natural selection occur? As you said, they were always resistant.Comment
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Then you define intelligence. And keep in mind humans would not be as advanced as they are were it not for opposable thumbs and protein from meat.Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.
Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?
Happens all the time.I still love everybodyComment
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I wasn't trying to prove anything, it was a joke.Originally posted by CET
That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god. Try again bucksnort.
Try again Tony Robbins.
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It's also what evolutionists do. They have a theory based on a premise and now they try to find things to support it. There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.Originally posted by CET
That's the logical fallacy of "proving a negative" and that's not how evolutions works. What you just did is exactly what christians do with god.
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As do I...and probably as...any other reasonable/logical thinking person does...but when the book is still open on any subject...I tend not to become "religious" in my belief and insistent that my "belief" is the only acceptable alternative...as people like Joe Sixpack seem to do.Originally posted by Colin
I don't believe that. I believe that evidence and methodology make some things much more likely than others.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Mike33,
So you don't believe in mutation? I ask because you seem to think that a populations DNA is static (e.g. there was always resistance).Comment
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Why do you call a chimp inferior? Is a rat inferior? Is a cockroach? How about a virus? Humanity does not stand at the apex of evolution.Originally posted by Mike33
But anyway, we're getting off topic. We're 99% similar in DNA yet the chimp is clearly far inferior. We didn't evolve from the chimp. This was the chimp from the beginning of chimps. We were always man. That's just my belief. There is litle or no evidence to the contrary.
You're correct. Humans did NOT evolve from chimps. Chimps and humans have a common ancestor. DNA similarity IS evidence of exactly that. DNA changes with time through mutation. If you extrapolate the amount of expected variation with time you would estimate that humans and chimps have an ancestor between 5 and 7 million years ago. That 5-7 million years ago your DNA and bobo's DNA were the same.
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That guy at the job is usually wrong because he hasn't bothered to learn anything about his job since he got it. In most jobs, there are changes that you are expected to stay abreast of. The teacher might be one of those, but that doesn't prove anything either way.Originally posted by Mike33
Even teachers teaching for 60 years can get it wrong.
Haven't you ever met somebody at a job who said something like, "What are you talking about? I've been working here for 30 years, I know what I'm talking about and you don't" when you actually know the idiot is dead wrong?
Happens all the time.Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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Good scientists try to find evidence to disprove it. Since you don't believe it, it would seem reasonable to present some arguments that appear to you to disprove it.Originally posted by Mike33
It's also what evolutionists do. They have a theory based on a premise and now they try to find things to support it. There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.Comment
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Stocktrader23 needs to prove his theory, then we will attempt to falsify his proof.Originally posted by stocktrader23
You don't prove scientific theories, you attempt to falsify them.
You don't prove stocktrader23 theories either.
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I was just giving an example of how your teacher was a nutjob.Originally posted by titmowse
Then you define intelligence. And keep in mind humans would not be as advanced as they are were it not for opposable thumbs and protein from meat.
Intelligence certainly encompasses more than an animal that appears to live in complete harmony with it's environment, not from it's own volition, but by necessity. The dolphin does not choose to be harmonious with the world. He is that way and was that way from birth by being a dolphin and he can do nothing else.Comment
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And what hospital does she work at?Originally posted by stocktrader23
My mother in law is a nurse. She bases her entire life and thinking around what she read in medical books while she was in school over 30 years ago even though much of it is completely wrong.
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"Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."Comment
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I am from the future and I've seen it myself.Originally posted by CET
Stocktrader23 needs to prove his theory, then we will attempt to falsify his proof.
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It doesn't matter, they are nearly all the same.Originally posted by CET
And what hospital does she work at?
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I read somewhere that the dolphin was once a land creature that chose to return to the sea. But of course, some wacky evolutionist probably made it up.Originally posted by Mike33
I was just giving an example of how your teacher was a nutjob.
Intelligence certainly encompasses more than an animal that appears to live in complete harmony with it's environment, not from it's own volition, but by necessity. The dolphin does not choose to be harmonious with the world. He is that way and was that way from birth by being a dolphin and he can do nothing else.I still love everybodyComment
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If you lived in SE Kansas, you wouldn't have much faith in evolution either
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My question makes perfect sense, you just don't know how to answer it. How can natural selection occur of black people were always resistant to malaria? If all species of organisms have always had all the resistances they have, then there can be no natural selection.Originally posted by Mike33
What? Your question doesn't make senseAlt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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The book is not 'open' on creationism.Originally posted by theking
As do I...and probably as...any other reasonable/logical thinking person does...but when the book is still open on any subject...I tend not to become "religious" in my belief and insistent that my "belief" is the only acceptable alternative...as people like Joe Sixpack seem to do.
It is pseudo-science.Comment
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I've tried time and time again the tenuous links you guys are using to support the theory of evolution.Originally posted by sacX
Good scientists try to find evidence to disprove it. Since you don't believe it, it would seem reasonable to present some arguments that appear to you to disprove it.
I've shown you that natural selection does not mean evolution. I've shown you that our differences and/or similarities to apes does not mean we are at all linked. I've shown you that genes are not gauranteed to be passed down even when they're beneficial. I've shown that we have been unable to demonstrate it in the lab. And even if we assume it has on a cell by cell basis, does that still hold up that we were monkeys? No
Yet these are some of the things that are used to suppor the theory.Comment
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Bullshit! AGAIN, you show that you know squat about squat. No reputable scientist would do this and get away with it for longer then about a minute.Originally posted by Mike33
It's also what evolutionists do. They have a theory based on a premise and now they try to find things to support it. There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.
If you think biologists ask everyone else to prove negatives, then show me one example of just that. Since you think they do and do not believe in evolution, then it should not take you long. Good luck!Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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"Just as a man who has fallen into a heap of filth ought to seek the great pond of water covered with lotuses, which is near by: even so seek thou for the great deathless lake of Nirvana to wash off the defilement of wrong. If the lake is not sought, it is not the fault of the lake."Comment
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Guess what evolutionists say about giraffes.... their necks are long so that they can eat the berries at the tops of the trees. See how absurd this is? Why not make longer legs then? Why not let it be able to climb?Originally posted by Johny Traffic
The wood hadnt evolved into a box yet, maybe as time goes on and we evolve, instead of trees growing, boxes will grow, then the monkeys can climb on the boxes to get the bannanas without humans help.
There are other alternatives but this is most convenient so it becomes the "official" explanation.Comment
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There are many thousands of papers and books on the subject detailing the fossil and molecular evidence.Originally posted by Mike33
There has been quite a lack of evidence thus far.
Read some!
Biology didn't stop in 1859!
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I say the book is open on "creationism" as at this point in time I am only aware of two possible origins of life and that is either by abiogenesis (which there is not any proof of abiogenesis having taken place) or by a "creator". If you can provide other alternitives please do so?Originally posted by Joe Citizen
The book is not 'open' on creationism.
It is pseudo-science.When you're running down my country hoss...you're walking on the fighting side of me!
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Mike, honestly, you haven't shown us anything other than that your understanding of the theory of evolution is flawed, and very limited.Originally posted by Mike33
I've tried time and time again the tenuous links you guys are using to support the theory of evolution.
I've shown you that natural selection does not mean evolution. I've shown you that our differences and/or similarities to apes does not mean we are at all linked. I've shown you that genes are not gauranteed to be passed down even when they're beneficial. I've shown that we have been unable to demonstrate it in the lab. And even if we assume it has on a cell by cell basis, does that still hold up that we were monkeys? No
Yet these are some of the things that are used to suppor the theory.Comment
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Not so absurd. The giraffe is able to eat a food other animals cannot. A food they evidently need to survive.Originally posted by Mike33
Guess what evolutionists say about giraffes.... their necks are long so that they can eat the berries at the tops of the trees. See how absurd this is? Why not make longer legs then? Why not let it be able to climb?
There are other alternatives but this is most convenient so it becomes the "official" explanation.I still love everybodyComment
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The fact that we have something in common called DNA to mean that we are related is an assumption.Originally posted by Colin
Why do you call a chimp inferior? Is a rat inferior? Is a cockroach? How about a virus? Humanity does not stand at the apex of evolution.
You're correct. Humans did NOT evolve from chimps. Chimps and humans have a common ancestor. DNA similarity IS evidence of exactly that. DNA changes with time through mutation. If you extrapolate the amount of expected variation with time you would estimate that humans and chimps have an ancestor between 5 and 7 million years ago. That 5-7 million years ago your DNA and bobo's DNA were the same.
I'm sure all living things have something in common.Comment
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Same with koalas.Originally posted by titmowse
Not so absurd. The giraffe is able to eat a food other animals cannot. A food they evidently need to survive.Comment
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1. Genes don't have to pass down EVERY time they're beneficial. You're thinking one example again. Evolution suggests that in general over a population, beneficial genes are MORE likely to be passed down.Originally posted by Mike33
I've tried time and time again the tenuous links you guys are using to support the theory of evolution.
I've shown you that natural selection does not mean evolution. I've shown you that our differences and/or similarities to apes does not mean we are at all linked. I've shown you that genes are not gauranteed to be passed down even when they're beneficial. I've shown that we have been unable to demonstrate it in the lab. And even if we assume it has on a cell by cell basis, does that still hold up that we were monkeys? No
Yet these are some of the things that are used to suppor the theory.
2. Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is shown to occur in the lab.
3. I don't understand how you've shown that our similarity to apes doesn't mean we're linked. It suggests we have a common ancestor sometime in history.
Also you said a population always had resistance to say sickle trait, or a bacteria to antibiotics. Are you saying that mutation does not occur? or simply that mutation is not powerful enough to effect a change in an individual?Comment
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So before they "evolved" longer necks they couldn't reach this food and died? Nothing left to evolve from eh?Originally posted by titmowse
Not so absurd. The giraffe is able to eat a food other animals cannot. A food they evidently need to survive.
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Sounds like a wacky idea to me. It doesn't to you?Originally posted by titmowse
I read somewhere that the dolphin was once a land creature that chose to return to the sea. But of course, some wacky evolutionist probably made it up.Comment
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It goes FAR deeper then that. It goes so deep that I can't even begin to explain it. Go talk to a biologist, take a couple of classes, READ the scientific literature.Originally posted by Mike33
The fact that we have something in common called DNA to mean that we are related is an assumption.
I'm sure all living things have something in common.Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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no wackier than any otherOriginally posted by Mike33
Sounds like a wacky idea to me. It doesn't to you?I still love everybodyComment
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CET, this whole evolution thing started with Darwin. He had a premise that things evolved over time. That's the premise that runs through to today. It's the premise upon which all evolutionary inquiry rests.Originally posted by CET
Bullshit! AGAIN, you show that you know squat about squat. No reputable scientist would do this and get away with it for longer then about a minute.
If you think biologists ask everyone else to prove negatives, then show me one example of just that. Since you think they do and do not believe in evolution, then it should not take you long. Good luck!Comment
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Like religion?Originally posted by titmowse
no wackier than any other
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Actually he has shown me something. I thought that the reason that 50% of americans dont believe in evolution was becuase they were all church going nutters, but hes shown me that others dont believe becuase the science behind it they believe is flawed. Thats a refreshing attitude and whether I agree with him or not, Im glad that there are free thinking people like him over there stillMike, honestly, you haven't shown us anything other than that your understanding of the theory of evolution is flawed, and very limited.
Last edited by Johny Traffic; 11-05-2004, 03:30 AM.
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When I say 'creationism' I refer to what is known as 'scientific' creationism, not the idea that there is a creator.Originally posted by theking
I say the book is open on "creationism" as at this point in time I am only aware of two possible origins of life and that is either by abiogenesis (which there is not any proof of abiogenesis having taken place) or by a "creator". If you can provide other alternitives please do so?Comment
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I've noticed that Mike has completely avoided my question about natural selection and mutation. He can't tell me how natural selection occurs without mutations. Maybe if I keep bringing it up he'll be forced to answer it one way or another.Originally posted by sacX
1. Genes don't have to pass down EVERY time they're beneficial. You're thinking one example again. Evolution suggests that in general over a population, beneficial genes are MORE likely to be passed down.
2. Bacterial resistance to antibiotics is shown to occur in the lab.
3. I don't understand how you've shown that our similarity to apes doesn't mean we're linked. It suggests we have a common ancestor sometime in history.
Also you said a population always had resistance to say sickle trait, or a bacteria to antibiotics. Are you saying that mutation does not occur? or simply that mutation is not powerful enough to effect a change in an individual?Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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Uh that's a long discredited theory of evolution. No modern day evolutionist believes that.Originally posted by Mike33
Guess what evolutionists say about giraffes.... their necks are long so that they can eat the berries at the tops of the trees. See how absurd this is? Why not make longer legs then? Why not let it be able to climb?
There are other alternatives but this is most convenient so it becomes the "official" explanation.Comment
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Not exactly... very few examples of battle armor survived, for obvious reasons. But from the few that do, it is clear that these were big guys. Pretty much what you would expect when you figure out the strength it takes to wield a sword that is 4-6 feet long.Originally posted by Johny Traffic
Man is taller now than he was 500 years ago. Have a look at european Knights armor, you can see how small we was.
The armor you see on tombs, in castles, etc., was for display only and because it was expensive, made smaller than life.
The growth thing is not anyway part of evolution as such, because evolution implies change. But FYI I recall reading in Israel a few years ago their stats showed that simply because of improvements in nutrition, successive generations there since WW2 were averaging 1-2 inches taller than their parents.Comment
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It actually started with Lamarck... but he had things a little confused.Originally posted by Mike33
CET, this whole evolution thing started with Darwin. He had a premise that things evolved over time. That's the premise that runs through to today. It's the premise upon which all evolutionary inquiry rests.Comment
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yes I think this is the third time I've mentioned mutation also :/Originally posted by CET
I've noticed that Mike has completely avoided my question about natural selection and mutation. He can't tell me how natural selection occurs without mutations. Maybe if I keep bringing it up he'll be forced to answer it one way or another.Comment
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I love the interweb
http://www.cetacea.org/evolve.htm
The Cetacean's Adaptations for Sea Life
Over a period of millions of years, the cetacean returned to the sea - there was more food there, and more space than on land. Because of this increase in space, there was no natural limit to the cetacean's size (i.e. the amount of weight its legs could hold) since the water provided buoyancy. It had no longer any need for legs.
During this time, the cetacean lost the qualities that fitted it for land existence and gained new qualities for life at sea. Its hind limbs disappeared, its body became more tapered and streamlined - a form that enabled it to move swiftly through the water. For the same reason, most of its fur disappeared, reducing the resistance of the giant body to the water. The cetacean's original tail was replaced by a pair of flukes that acted like a propeller.I still love everybodyComment
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Those that just happened to have longer necks were able to eat more then those with shorter necks. Thus those with shorter necks died and those with longer necks had more children. The children with the longest necks could reach the most food, thus giving thier children the trait of having longer necks. Etc.Originally posted by stocktrader23
So before they "evolved" longer necks they couldn't reach this food and died? Nothing left to evolve from eh?Alt Journals, Blogs for Perverts!
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Yes, Lamarckism.Originally posted by sacX
Uh that's a long discredited theory of evolution. No modern day evolutionist believes that.Comment
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CET, this isn't rocket science. Whenever you don't have the answer referring somebody to go to see a biologist just doesn't cut it.Originally posted by CET
It goes FAR deeper then that. It goes so deep that I can't even begin to explain it. Go talk to a biologist, take a couple of classes, READ the scientific literature.
If you understood what you're talking about you'd be able to paraphrase. The general idea is what we're looking for. We've challenged it and showed where there are assumptions. All you need to do is show why they're aren't assumptions but that they're true. You can't.Comment
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