Women in our biz VS Men in our biz - GoFuckYourself.com

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 02:44 PM

Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing.

It would be pretty strange to see a guy post and have 100 women chat only about how hot he is. Do people actually do business with these women because they think they might be able to get in their pants? I'd love to see a guy post something like, she's so smart and understands our biz, she's totally great to do deals with. But for now it's, she's so hot.

OK, ladies, go ahead and talk about how hot I am.

fris · 11-04-2004, 02:46 PM

you mean like mary34d just make slutty posts, shes not in this biz, shes only to act like a 2 dollar whore. not actually to do any biz.

TondaB · 11-04-2004, 02:47 PM

Why D$ you are such a hottie! Too bad your married to Mrs $...if you are ever down in Orange County, you and I should hook up;)

Libertine · 11-04-2004, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

I think someone like, say, Kimmykim is respected for much more than her looks by virtually all webmasters

boneprone · 11-04-2004, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing.

It would be pretty strange to see a guy post and have 100 women chat only about how hot he is. Do people actually do business with these women because they think they might be able to get in their pants? I'd love to see a guy post something like, she's so smart and understands our biz, she's totally great to do deals with. But for now it's, she's so hot.

OK, ladies, go ahead and talk about how hot I am.

Not sure who you are talking about persay, but just remeber who ever she is, I fucked her...

MrIzzz · 11-04-2004, 02:49 PM

dude, you think women have it bad. everytime me or juicy post we got 1001 broads asking for more pics of us. i hate being considered a piece of meat wanted only for my looks and not my mind

KRosh · 11-04-2004, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boneprone
Not sure who you are talking about persay, but just remeber who ever she is, I fucked her...

Its Punker Barbie

and D$$$

You are right.. I want more people to try and get in my pants when i post damn it .....!!!

JUSTB · 11-04-2004, 02:50 PM

The guys in this biz treat me great. If I make a flirty or suggestive comment they're quick to follow with one, but generally I'm the instigator if it happens. I get great respect and have some guys who are great friends as well as business associates.

beemk · 11-04-2004, 02:50 PM

i dont know who you're talking about, but ask yourself this: did they get the job because they know business very well and they're qualified or because of their looks?

Basic_man · 11-04-2004, 02:51 PM

Men are differents than women !

punker barbie · 11-04-2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing.

It would be pretty strange to see a guy post and have 100 women chat only about how hot he is. Do people actually do business with these women because they think they might be able to get in their pants? I'd love to see a guy post something like, she's so smart and understands our biz, she's totally great to do deals with. But for now it's, she's so hot.

OK, ladies, go ahead and talk about how hot I am.

i personally dont have a problem with it. if it means the webmaster will remember me and better my chances of getting what i want from him then fuck it.

oh ya D$, you are so fucking hot LOL

boneprone · 11-04-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Basic_man
Men are differents than women !

Differents..

On the Internets.

European Lee · 11-04-2004, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Basic_man
Men are differents than women !

Someone call Captain Obvious

Regards,

Lee

karlm · 11-04-2004, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrIzzz
dude, you think women have it bad. everytime me or juicy post we got 1001 broads asking for more pics of us. i hate being considered a piece of meat wanted only for my looks and not my mind

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 02:55 PM

Just some food for thought.

Actually, I was thinking about Punker Barbie. I see she's a business women, trying to do deals. I hear nothing but great things about her. I was just thinking to myself that if I were her, I'd be a thinking that people should respect her business side of things as well. I'm sure they do, but I usually only read about how cute she is.

Now Kimmy Kim, no one would argue about how she's got the business smarts and everyone posts about that side of her. And she's also hot.

Izzz and Juicy, even KRosh make these women melt when their pics are posted, I'm sure that's pretty tough on them.

And Tonda, that was pretty funny. See you next week sugar!

One last thought. With the increase of women running adult sites and heading up marketing campaigns, maybe in a few years these boards will be run by mostly women. Then I can finally get threads about how super hot and sexy I am.

TheJimmy · 11-04-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
... What does ... hotness have to do with earning your business? ...

You're a smart guy, you should know that hotness has a LOT to do with the world...

Ever notice the HOT factor increases the closer you get to uber-high rent districts? See a lot of homely or average people on Rodeo or in the Century Plaza lately?

hot influences people in general...

HOWEVER....hot + talent = SCORE!

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 03:02 PM

John Kerry is hotter then George Bush.

He lost.

Then again, they say Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry.

I will agree, being hot opens up doors, then if you actually know how to get deals done, you're a super power!

I didn't get respect from Sleazydream, Juicy, Izzz, AaronM, Boneprone and others until they saw how hot I look in my pimp suit.

Bow to the hotness!

punker barbie · 11-04-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money

Actually, I was thinking about Punker Barbie. I see she's a business women, trying to do deals. I hear nothing but great things about her. I was just thinking to myself that if I were her, I'd be a thinking that people should respect her business side of things as well. I'm sure they do, but I usually only read about how cute she is.

Well its too bad my cute-ness over shadows the business side of me. For now i dont see it as a huge problem, if anything i will totally continue taking advantage of that. i guess people dont remember me when i first started ... selling content more than a year ago and to where i am now. i can say one thing i am most def. here to stay.

RuthXtremePay · 11-04-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by beemk
i dont know who you're talking about, but ask yourself this: did they get the job because they know business very well and they're qualified or because of their looks?

I guess that's a curse for any beautiful/attractive/good-looking SMART women out there.. BECAUSE they look good, perhaps they lose some credibility for their intelligence due to stereotypes..

but seriously, on these boards, folks seem to be pretty cool and personally it's great that we can all be cheeky and 'naughty' on the boards.. perhaps it saves some people from having affairs or problems etc, cos they get their 'rocks off' with this flirting stuff instead..

I dunno.. but I do know that punker barbie rocks

BigWebRev · 11-04-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing.

It would be pretty strange to see a guy post and have 100 women chat only about how hot he is. Do people actually do business with these women because they think they might be able to get in their pants? I'd love to see a guy post something like, she's so smart and understands our biz, she's totally great to do deals with. But for now it's, she's so hot.

OK, ladies, go ahead and talk about how hot I am.

SHOW US YOUR TITS!!

WiredGuy · 11-04-2004, 03:16 PM

Consider the audience though, predominantly male pornographers. It doesn't surprise me that this is the first typical reaction. I'm guilty of doing it too, there's a lot of attractive women in this business

WG

SleazyDream · 11-04-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money

I didn't get respect from Sleazydream, Juicy, Izzz, AaronM, Boneprone and others until they saw how hot I look in my pimp suit.

Bow to the hotness!

you didn't get the respect till i saw you OUT of the pimpsuit baby - naked in my room......greased up and ready for action

SleazyDream · 11-04-2004, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punker barbie
Well its too bad my cute-ness over shadows the business side of me. For now i dont see it as a huge problem, if anything i will totally continue taking advantage of that. i guess people dont remember me when i first started ... selling content more than a year ago and to where i am now. i can say one thing i am most def. here to stay.

ummm, where are you now?

European Lee · 11-04-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
One last thought. With the increase of women running adult sites and heading up marketing campaigns, maybe in a few years these boards will be run by mostly women. Then I can finally get threads about how super hot and sexy I am.

In a few years?

You are about 2 years to late for that thought ;)

http://forums.femalewebmasters.com

Regards,

Lee

reynold · 11-04-2004, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Basic_man
Men are differents than women !

I have to be in the neutral side for this one.

Bugbee · 11-04-2004, 03:28 PM

this thread is useless without pics!!

punker barbie · 11-04-2004, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream
ummm, where are you now?

im the affiliate manager for xxxcash LOL its a big responsibility you know ;)

SleazyDream · 11-04-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punker barbie
im the affiliate manager for xxxcash LOL its a big responsibility you know ;)

didn't know that, congrats on the job

who's xxxcash?

SpeakEasy · 11-04-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fris
you mean like mary34d just make slutty posts, shes not in this biz, shes only to act like a 2 dollar whore. not actually to do any biz.

LOL

Peaches · 11-04-2004, 03:35 PM

It's nice being old and chubby - no doubt at all I'm around for business only

punker barbie · 11-04-2004, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SleazyDream
didn't know that, congrats on the job

who's xxxcash?

hahaha www.XXXCash.com is only one of the best converting celebrity sponsors and lets not forget to take advantage of the awesome niches we have.. Which consist of single girl sites, gay sites, stripper and asian sites!!! We are a 50/50 rev share program XXXCASH also offeres PPS on a invite only... :D

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GigaBugbee
this thread is useless without pics!!

detoxed · 11-04-2004, 03:41 PM

They all think they have a chance. I have a better chance than all of them

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 03:43 PM

Even Ice-T wanted my cock.

Tala · 11-04-2004, 03:44 PM

Y'all excuse me. I just came in here to read the thread and wonder why no one thinks I'm hot....

punker barbie · 11-04-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RuthXtremePay
I guess that's a curse for any beautiful/attractive/good-looking SMART women out there.. BECAUSE they look good, perhaps they lose some credibility for their intelligence due to stereotypes..

but seriously, on these boards, folks seem to be pretty cool and personally it's great that we can all be cheeky and 'naughty' on the boards.. perhaps it saves some people from having affairs or problems etc, cos they get their 'rocks off' with this flirting stuff instead..

I dunno.. but I do know that punker barbie rocks

thanks for the back up dolly!!!! much appreciated!

MrIzzz · 11-04-2004, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
Y'all excuse me. I just came in here to read the thread and wonder why no one thinks I'm hot....

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm TALA

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money

I didn't get respect from Sleazydream, Juicy, Izzz, AaronM, Boneprone and others until they saw how hot I look in my pimp suit.

Bow to the hotness!

dude, i would so do you like two lovers in prison

ElvisManson · 11-04-2004, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punker barbie
thanks for the back up dolly!!!! much appreciated!

Id' hit it...though this thread is useless without pics.

In all seriousness I think it is the nature of our industry. We all make our living on the backs of people masturbating. We are able to express "how hot" a girl is without fear of reprisal or a getting slammed with a Sexual harrassment lawsuit. In most other industries you would never get away with it.

Tala · 11-04-2004, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrIzzz
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm TALA

Awww! Thank you Izzy!

Trixxxia · 11-04-2004, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tala
Y'all excuse me. I just came in here to read the thread and wonder why no one thinks I'm hot....

Because your brains & stories, just blow them away to the point they can't see any longer. I must add that they can't verbalize after that - doesn't mean that they don't think it!

Vanilla DeVille · 11-04-2004, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ElvisManson
Id' hit it...though this thread is useless without pics.

In all seriousness I think it is the nature of our industry. We all make our living on the backs of people masturbating. We are able to express "how hot" a girl is without fear of reprisal or a getting slammed with a Sexual harrassment lawsuit. In most other industries you would never get away with it.

So true... When I worked in Corporate America, people couldn't say half of the things they can here in this industry...

sherie · 11-04-2004, 04:03 PM

This thread is useless without pic's!

LadyMischief · 11-04-2004, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peaches
It's nice being old and chubby - no doubt at all I'm around for business only

I was just thinknig the same thing!! :P

Kimmykim · 11-04-2004, 04:04 PM

If a girls cute, then she gets attention. If she can do the job, she'll keep the attention and gain the respect that goes with it.

It's pretty simple... I don't really think it's got all that much to do with shallow, since the females in this business that can get things done are respected for that in most cases.

Sometimes its good to be a girl, you get the chance to sneak in under the radar and learn as much as you can about the business without people expecting you to know it all. Then by the time you learn a ton of stuff and start making things happen, it's all good.

For me personally, I don't care if someone is man, woman, or goat. If they can do what they say they will, more power to them.

Stewie · 11-04-2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot!

To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing.

true, but when these threads include pictures of the girls just to get views...

Repetitive Monkey · 11-04-2004, 04:11 PM

This phenomenon occurs because most people on this board are not used to associate with non-related individuals of the female gender. It's pathetic and immature from a certain point of view, but then again I don't think the females should complain, because they are in no way hindered from achieving a deeper level of respect.

D-Money · 11-04-2004, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Repetitive Monkey
This phenomenon occurs because most people on this board are not used to associate with non-related individuals of the female gender. It's pathetic and immature from a certain point of view, but then again I don't think the females should complain, because they are in no way hindered from achieving a deeper level of respect.

Well said.

My point wasn't really a negative one, just an observation.

It gives a nice opportunity to the female business woman just entering this industry. An opportunity men never have in this business.

I agree with what KK said. It's what you do with that opportunity that separates the business people. KK certainly earned the respect of this community with what's she's learned and how she applies it today.

Izzz, let's raise some hell and locked up together in Vegas!

maja · 11-04-2004, 04:26 PM

D-money! We want nekkid pics!! take it off!!

it's not always a bad thing for guys to be blinded by your beauty, as long as you can use it too your advantage, sneak up, take control biz wise and they'll be wondering what hit em.

I agree that sometimes it is hard to be taken seriously on the boards but on a 1 on 1 basis it's been pretty fair for me.

Allison · 11-04-2004, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by D-Money
Well said.

I agree with what KK said. It's what you do with that opportunity that separates the business people. KK certainly earned the respect of this community with what's she's learned and how she applies it today.

I second that. Both men and women in most industries benefit from being attractive appearances, but it really comes down to what the person does with that business opportunity b/c it can be lost as quickly as it came.

~Alli

Feline · 11-04-2004, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by punker barbie
Well its too bad my cute-ness over shadows the business side of me. For now i dont see it as a huge problem, if anything i will totally continue taking advantage of that. i guess people dont remember me when i first started ... selling content more than a year ago and to where i am now. i can say one thing i am most def. here to stay.

wait....who are u? U just some attention hoe who is constantly posting here for attention and to feel good about urself...

11-04-2004, 02:44 PM	#1
D-Money Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Player Del Ray Posts: 9,716	Women in our biz VS Men in our biz Why is it that when a BUSINESS minded woman in our biz does a radio show or posts in threads, most men only make comments about their looks. Oh she's hot! To me, that's a little shallow. I mean, aren't we all here trying to do business with one another? What does a womens hotness have to do with earning your business? If that woman is talent, its one thing. It would be pretty strange to see a guy post and have 100 women chat only about how hot he is. Do people actually do business with these women because they think they might be able to get in their pants? I'd love to see a guy post something like, she's so smart and understands our biz, she's totally great to do deals with. But for now it's, she's so hot. OK, ladies, go ahead and talk about how hot I am. __________________ Still Ballin'

11-04-2004, 02:46 PM	#2
fris Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 55,372	you mean like mary34d just make slutty posts, shes not in this biz, shes only to act like a 2 dollar whore. not actually to do any biz. __________________ Since 1999: 69 Adult Industry awards for Best Hosting Company and professional excellence. WP Stuff

11-04-2004, 02:47 PM	#3
TondaB Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Posts: 3,162	Why D$ you are such a hottie! Too bad your married to Mrs $...if you are ever down in Orange County, you and I should hook up;) __________________ ICQ: 61462417

11-04-2004, 02:49 PM	#6
MrIzzz If u touch it, I will cum Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: long island Posts: 22,923	dude, you think women have it bad. everytime me or juicy post we got 1001 broads asking for more pics of us. i hate being considered a piece of meat wanted only for my looks and not my mind __________________ WHO WANTS TO PLAY GRAB-ASS?

11-04-2004, 02:50 PM	#9
beemk CLICK HERE Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 20,829	i dont know who you're talking about, but ask yourself this: did they get the job because they know business very well and they're qualified or because of their looks? __________________ I host with Vacares

11-04-2004, 02:50 PM	#8
JUSTB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: tampa Posts: 1,740	The guys in this biz treat me great. If I make a flirty or suggestive comment they're quick to follow with one, but generally I'm the instigator if it happens. I get great respect and have some guys who are great friends as well as business associates.

11-04-2004, 02:51 PM	#10
Basic_man Programming King Pin Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 27,360	Men are differents than women ! __________________ UUGallery Builder - automated photo/video gallery plugin for Wordpress! Stop looking! Checkout Naked Hosting, online since 1999 !

11-04-2004, 02:55 PM	#15
D-Money Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Player Del Ray Posts: 9,716	Just some food for thought. Actually, I was thinking about Punker Barbie. I see she's a business women, trying to do deals. I hear nothing but great things about her. I was just thinking to myself that if I were her, I'd be a thinking that people should respect her business side of things as well. I'm sure they do, but I usually only read about how cute she is. Now Kimmy Kim, no one would argue about how she's got the business smarts and everyone posts about that side of her. And she's also hot. Izzz and Juicy, even KRosh make these women melt when their pics are posted, I'm sure that's pretty tough on them. And Tonda, that was pretty funny. See you next week sugar! One last thought. With the increase of women running adult sites and heading up marketing campaigns, maybe in a few years these boards will be run by mostly women. Then I can finally get threads about how super hot and sexy I am. __________________ Still Ballin'

11-04-2004, 03:02 PM	#17
D-Money Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Player Del Ray Posts: 9,716	John Kerry is hotter then George Bush. He lost. Then again, they say Bush has a higher IQ then Kerry. I will agree, being hot opens up doors, then if you actually know how to get deals done, you're a super power! I didn't get respect from Sleazydream, Juicy, Izzz, AaronM, Boneprone and others until they saw how hot I look in my pimp suit. Bow to the hotness! __________________ Still Ballin'

11-04-2004, 03:16 PM	#21
WiredGuy Pounding Googlebot Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34,482	Consider the audience though, predominantly male pornographers. It doesn't surprise me that this is the first typical reaction. I'm guilty of doing it too, there's a lot of attractive women in this business WG __________________ I play with Google.

11-04-2004, 03:28 PM	#26
Bugbee Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Your moms house Posts: 4,609	this thread is useless without pics!! __________________ Stephen Bugbee www.x2k.com ICQ# FUCK ICQ bugbee AT x2k dot com X2K consulting and media services - specializing in business development, technology and profitability of your new or existing products and services X2K MEDIA SUITE Need a high risk merchant account? Contact me.. Are you a donor? Have a heart and help someone in need. Go to the DMV and be sure you are a donor, it saves lives!!!!

11-04-2004, 03:35 PM	#30
Peaches Old broad Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Away Posts: 13,933	It's nice being old and chubby - no doubt at all I'm around for business only

11-04-2004, 03:41 PM	#33
detoxed vip member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 17,798	They all think they have a chance. I have a better chance than all of them

11-04-2004, 03:43 PM	#34
D-Money Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Player Del Ray Posts: 9,716	Even Ice-T wanted my cock. __________________ Still Ballin'

11-04-2004, 03:44 PM	#35
Tala Fucked if I know Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Do you have a flag? Posts: 23,368	Y'all excuse me. I just came in here to read the thread and wonder why no one thinks I'm hot.... __________________ ICQ: 11120676 \| Google: mindcrime \| Skype: suitemindcrime\|E-Mail: mindcrime AT gmail.com\|PR girl with great writing skills for hire!!!! Contact me to work for YOU!\|TECHIEMEDIA? 24/7 support from some of the best techs in the biz. Tell Jim that I sent you.

11-04-2004, 04:03 PM	#42
sherie Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 7,020	This thread is useless without pic's! __________________ AIM sherierocks ICQ 127-296-286 Skype traffichor

11-04-2004, 04:04 PM	#44
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	If a girls cute, then she gets attention. If she can do the job, she'll keep the attention and gain the respect that goes with it. It's pretty simple... I don't really think it's got all that much to do with shallow, since the females in this business that can get things done are respected for that in most cases. Sometimes its good to be a girl, you get the chance to sneak in under the radar and learn as much as you can about the business without people expecting you to know it all. Then by the time you learn a ton of stuff and start making things happen, it's all good. For me personally, I don't care if someone is man, woman, or goat. If they can do what they say they will, more power to them.

11-04-2004, 04:11 PM	#46
Repetitive Monkey Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,505	This phenomenon occurs because most people on this board are not used to associate with non-related individuals of the female gender. It's pathetic and immature from a certain point of view, but then again I don't think the females should complain, because they are in no way hindered from achieving a deeper level of respect.

11-04-2004, 04:26 PM	#48
maja Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Dirty D is my human bong! Posts: 868	D-money! We want nekkid pics!! take it off!! it's not always a bad thing for guys to be blinded by your beauty, as long as you can use it too your advantage, sneak up, take control biz wise and they'll be wondering what hit em. I agree that sometimes it is hard to be taken seriously on the boards but on a 1 on 1 basis it's been pretty fair for me. __________________ FETISH SITES PAYS ME WELL! DOES IT PAY YOU TOO? If you're in vancouver / westcoast stop by here! ~~~zombiegirl~~ I've made out with Dwreck, have you?