Is $50/Mbps too much to pay for hosting? - GoFuckYourself.com

Daft · 11-03-2004, 03:24 PM

So i'm paying that much for 12mbps. Is that too much? Please advise thanks!

Fizzgig · 11-03-2004, 03:27 PM

boner 2.0 · 11-03-2004, 03:29 PM

With which host? Dedicated or Colo?

Dagwolf · 11-03-2004, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fizzgig

Fizzgig · 11-03-2004, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dagwolf

(Sorry Daft...steps out of thread...)

AndrewKanuck · 11-03-2004, 03:31 PM

I pay almost 100$/mbit CAD - but mine allows spamming & hosting of spamvertized sites, and is a nice blend of bandwidth

Dagwolf · 11-03-2004, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fizzgig

Moose · 11-03-2004, 03:35 PM

Is paying $5000 for a car too much?

If its a ford pinto..yes
If its a 7 series..you got a good deal.

You need to give more details with this questions to get a correct answer.

webair · 11-03-2004, 03:37 PM

all you need to know is one company...

WEBAIR.COM WILL MEET OR BEAT ANY COMPARABLE HOSTING OFFER! BEST CONNECTIVITY AND SERVICE AROUND...

Magg · 11-03-2004, 03:37 PM

Daft - for only 12 Mbps its a good deal. If you like the service especially.

Dont be fooled or tempted by cheap ass pricing you see elsewhere, if you like it and you think you are getting your money's worth, its a good choice.

Think about it, the cheaper you go - the differance in pricing has to be taken out of the service SOMEWHERE...

Uptime, Support, Quality, etc etc many other things.

$50/Mbps is fine..

We charge $75/Mbps for 10Mbps commit, but we also include a basket load of features and support - so it depends on the host.

Are you happy where you are?

SinSational · 11-03-2004, 03:39 PM

yeah, too much.

depends on hardware, service, support, bandwidth, etc.

AndrewKanuck · 11-03-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
Daft - for only 12 Mbps its a good deal. If you like the service especially.

Dont be fooled or tempted by cheap ass pricing you see elsewhere, if you like it and you think you are getting your money's worth, its a good choice.

Think about it, the cheaper you go - the differance in pricing has to be taken out of the service SOMEWHERE...

Uptime, Support, Quality, etc etc many other things.

$50/Mbps is fine..

We charge $75/Mbps for 10Mbps commit, but we also include a basket load of features and support - so it depends on the host.

Are you happy where you are?

50/mbps can be trimmed down and still have a proffit margin - if the people you are hosted with have their commits set right.

Magg · 11-03-2004, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SinSational
yeah, too much.

You're an ass, dont try to get him to switch to you for the sole reason that youre cheaper.

Youre worse of a choice of a provider, most likely since your single homed, and your provider is Verio which isnt that great.

You also have some kind of affiliation with Naughtybandwidth - youre a reseller or something along those lines.

Magg · 11-03-2004, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewKanuck
50/mbps can be trimmed down and still have a proffit margin - if the people you are hosted with have their commits set right.

Sure it can, but this isnt the issue...

Also, can you ICQ me a link to that host you were talking about Andrew..

thxn

SinSational · 11-03-2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
You're an ass, dont try to get him to switch to you for the sole reason that youre cheaper.

Youre worse of a choice of a provider, most likely since your single homed, and your provider is Verio which isnt that great.

You also have some kind of affiliation with Naughtybandwidth - youre a reseller or something along those lines.

naughtybandwidth? never heard of them.

SinSational · 11-03-2004, 03:49 PM

AndrewKanuck · 11-03-2004, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
Sure it can, but this isnt the issue...

Also, can you ICQ me a link to that host you were talking about Andrew..

thxn

It's a local one that has Verio & Savvis dropped into it (and some peering up the ying yang)

cotsios · 11-03-2004, 03:51 PM

damm and we sell $15 per mbps

Magg · 11-03-2004, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewKanuck
It's a local one that has Verio & Savvis dropped into it (and some peering up the ying yang)

do they do deds or colo only? they have a website?

Major (Tom) · 11-03-2004, 04:25 PM

yes way too expensive... Look for 22- 32 an mbit for hosting.
Thats pretty standard.. if you're not getting that you're getting ripped off.. Maybe for a paysites members area I would pay more, but not for galleries or mgp/tgp hosting.
Duke

Michele R. · 11-03-2004, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
You're an ass, dont try to get him to switch to you for the sole reason that youre cheaper.

Youre worse of a choice of a provider, most likely since your single homed, and your provider is Verio which isnt that great.

You also have some kind of affiliation with Naughtybandwidth - youre a reseller or something along those lines.

I've been reading your posts for a while now Magg and you try to call out all these hosting companies on here but the facts are:

1) You RESELL for hahahahahaha (EDIT: C-H-O-O-P-A).

2) You keep saying Verio is not "multi-homed", that is NOT true.

When was the last time Verio's network was down in their premiere DC in VA?

Was it down when that "other" major network was having problems a couple weeks ago for 2 days?

How about the time before that? Or before that....?

3) Because two sites are using the same script for their backend they are the same host, or one is reselling the other?

So are all hosting companies using ModernBill reselling for one another?

One other thing:

Before you try to put down all these other hosts perhaps you should consider focusing on your own business. You posted a thread the other night about popping pills. Who in their right mind would trust their business with you?

I would host with LikeWhoa before I hosted with you.

Where is your professionalism?

You're a complete moron.

From what I can see SinSational is spending money on this board, not spamming all day long like you.

You are a short-term host and I'm sure that will be proven soon.

A few more things jerky:

1) The server your website is hosted on was compromised how many times? 5? Or was it 10?

Isn't that the same server you store your CLIENTS PERSONAL credit card information on?

2) http://www.foundrynap.com/form.php?step=2&cpid=28

When I signup for that plan and click proceed it tells me I have an invalid credit card number.

Wait --- it didn't ask me for my credit card number though. How's that possible?

3) Where's the SSL on your site? Let me guess, you can't get approved for one because you probably don't have any type of established business in the State you do business in and you have not gotten one under your personal name because you don't want people to know your real name.

Am I getting warm?

4) Why is your toll-free number not active anymore? Phone company still having problems with your COMPLEX phone system there?

Or could you not pay your bill this month for your $19.95 web-based toll-free number?

Just figured I'd pick on you a little like you do everyone else!

Bye!

VeriSexy · 11-03-2004, 04:51 PM

The going rate is now $30/mbps

AndrewKanuck · 11-03-2004, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
do they do deds or colo only? they have a website?

They do cages (10 x 8 or larger) and provide the link.

AndrewKanuck · 11-03-2004, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VeriSexy
The going rate is now $30/mbps

Depends on commit, quality, etc.

DavidVH · 11-03-2004, 05:03 PM

Really it just depends on the carrier. $50/Mbps on a single homed Cogent link. Then yes you're paying too much. If it is a mix of decent grade carriers. Then no $50/Mbps is perfect.

doober · 11-03-2004, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidVH
Really it just depends on the carrier. $50/Mbps on a single homed Cogent link. Then yes you're paying too much. If it is a mix of decent grade carriers. Then no $50/Mbps is perfect.

Exactly, depends on the quality of the bandwidth

Superterrorizer · 11-03-2004, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michele R.
I've been reading your posts for a while now Magg and you try to call out all these hosting companies on here but the facts are:

1) You RESELL for hahahahahaha (EDIT: C-H-O-O-P-A).

2) You keep saying Verio is not "multi-homed", that is NOT true.

When was the last time Verio's network was down in their premiere DC in VA?

Was it down when that "other" major network was having problems a couple weeks ago for 2 days?

How about the time before that? Or before that....?

3) Because two sites are using the same script for their backend they are the same host, or one is reselling the other?

So are all hosting companies using ModernBill reselling for one another?

One other thing:

Before you try to put down all these other hosts perhaps you should consider focusing on your own business. You posted a thread the other night about popping pills. Who in their right mind would trust their business with you?

I would host with LikeWhoa before I hosted with you.

Where is your professionalism?

You're a complete moron.

From what I can see SinSational is spending money on this board, not spamming all day long like you.

You are a short-term host and I'm sure that will be proven soon.

A few more things jerky:

1) The server your website is hosted on was compromised how many times? 5? Or was it 10?

Isn't that the same server you store your CLIENTS PERSONAL credit card information on?

2) http://www.foundrynap.com/form.php?step=2&cpid=28

When I signup for that plan and click proceed it tells me I have an invalid credit card number.

Wait --- it didn't ask me for my credit card number though. How's that possible?

3) Where's the SSL on your site? Let me guess, you can't get approved for one because you probably don't have any type of established business in the State you do business in and you have not gotten one under your personal name because you don't want people to know your real name.

Am I getting warm?

4) Why is your toll-free number not active anymore? Phone company still having problems with your COMPLEX phone system there?

Or could you not pay your bill this month for your $19.95 web-based toll-free number?

Just figured I'd pick on you a little like you do everyone else!

Bye!

Thank goodness someone finally said something about this kid. You should read his posts on WHT, very scary stuff.
I am 99.9% sure he also posts as LikeWhoa! and tries to bash other hosting companies under the guise of that nick. Pretty sad.

xlogger · 11-03-2004, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cotsios
damm and we sell $15 per mbps

i got a box with them yesturday...dirty cheap price...lets see how good they are

fris · 11-03-2004, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by webair
all you need to know is one company...

WEBAIR.COM WILL MEET OR BEAT ANY COMPARABLE HOSTING OFFER! BEST CONNECTIVITY AND SERVICE AROUND...

right buddy

last time you said that you ignored me

Magg · 11-03-2004, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Michele R.
I've been reading your posts for a while now Magg and you try to call out all these hosting companies on here but the facts are:

1) You RESELL for hahahahahaha (EDIT: C-H-O-O-P-A).
----------------------------------------------
We purchase bandwidth from them, we provide our own servers, space, support, etc. Get your facts straight. From the comments I've head from their own clients, we provide better support than they do.

----------------------------------------------
2) You keep saying Verio is not "multi-homed", that is NOT true.

You are an idiot. SinSational is not multihomed, THIS is what I said. YOU are bending the truth.

---------------------------------------------
3) Because two sites are using the same script for their backend they are the same host, or one is reselling the other?

Their sites using the same TemplateMonster.com template is one of the reasons, but only the reason which led me to check up on them.

--------------------------------------------

One other thing:

Before you try to put down all these other hosts perhaps you should consider focusing on your own business. You posted a thread the other night about popping pills. Who in their right mind would trust their business with you?

I received some Xanax, and was curious as to what would happen if I took them. My clear lack of knowledge on them or 'popping' pills should show any reasonable person that I never do drugs.
------------------------------------------

You are a short-term host and I'm sure that will be proven soon.
------------------------------------------

We've been going strong with this brand for 1 YEAR now, can you say that about SinSational? Registered their domain about 1 month ago... Hmm..... RIGHT.

------------------------------------------

1) The server your website is hosted on was compromised how many times? 5? Or was it 10?

Twice, from a user who uploaded a script - you cant exactly keep someone from opening their FTP program and uploading a script onto a FREE hosted account server. We dont provide paid virtual hosting. Jerky.

--------------------------------

Isn't that the same server you store your CLIENTS PERSONAL credit card information on?

2) http://www.foundrynap.com/form.php?step=2&cpid=28

When I signup for that plan and click proceed it tells me I have an invalid credit card number.

Wait --- it didn't ask me for my credit card number though. How's that possible?

-----------------------------------------
WHAT CC Info? ALL I see is a link to PAYPAL, NO WHERE does it ask for CC info. Are you sure YOU arnt popping pills?

-------------------------------------------
3) Where's the SSL on your site? Let me guess, you can't get approved for one because you probably don't have any type of established business in the State you do business in and you have not gotten one under your personal name because you don't want people to know your real name.

An SSL for what douchebag? We arnt transmitting any sensitive information via our website.
------------------------------------------
4) Why is your toll-free number not active anymore? Phone company still having problems with your COMPLEX phone system there?

The provider is having issues with our account, it is out of our hands. This has NOT caused a lack of support or breakdown in communication between clients.

-----------------------

Just figured I'd pick on you a little like you do everyone else!

All I see is you've proven to me you are the single most idiotic person on this board

Magg · 11-03-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superterrorizer
Thank goodness someone finally said something about this kid. You should read his posts on WHT, very scary stuff.
I am 99.9% sure he also posts as LikeWhoa! and tries to bash other hosting companies under the guise of that nick. Pretty sad.

I like how all the TROLLS are coming out of the woodwork - it wouldnt surprise me one bit if YOU are the alternative characters of hosts on this board.

How nice of you to change nicks and go on a bashing fest, REAL professional of you.

What about my posts on WHT? Show me one bad post. I've never abused anyone on WHT other than people who've posted lies about us, with again, no direct or personal experience with our firm.

WHT is one of the most stuckup webhosting forums there is.

I hope you all have fun playing with each other, I know my clients are happy, they know theyre happy, and thats all that matters.

Trolls bashing us with 0 experience of our services, 0 experience with me personally, and 0 knowledge of the industry will not deter me from providing a quality and stable service to my current and future clients.

I may not have the best forum ethics and attitude, but theres not much I can do about that. I try to tone it down, but either way, people will think what they want.

However, the client experience speaks for itself.

Have fun arguing with the wind.

Superterrorizer · 11-03-2004, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magg
I like how all the TROLLS are coming out of the woodwork - it wouldnt surprise me one bit if YOU are the alternative characters of hosts on this board.

How nice of you to change nicks and go on a bashing fest, REAL professional of you.

What about my posts on WHT? Show me one bad post. I've never abused anyone on WHT other than people who've posted lies about us, with again, no direct or personal experience with our firm.

WHT is one of the most stuckup webhosting forums there is.

I hope you all have fun playing with each other, I know my clients are happy, they know theyre happy, and thats all that matters.

Trolls bashing us with 0 experience of our services, 0 experience with me personally, and 0 knowledge of the industry will not deter me from providing a quality and stable service to my current and future clients.

I may not have the best forum ethics and attitude, but theres not much I can do about that. I try to tone it down, but either way, people will think what they want.

However, the client experience speaks for itself.

Have fun arguing with the wind.

Sadly, this is my only nick on GFY. My concern about WHT was your posting for someone to complete your _high school_ classes online for you. That about says it all. I'm not really looking for an argument, I am just stating things as I see them. Perhaps someone should do you a favor and contact your principal and let him know what you are up to, for your own good.

Anyone who would purchase any type of service (Aside from blowjobs) from someone who can't even put forth the effort to finish highschool has some issues. Your age says a lot about you, your posting habbits and your business related threads.

For your own good, please get informed about the topics you choose to post (IE: bandwidth carriers, other hosting companies) on the board about. Reading WHT and looking up stuff on fixedorbit do not make you a hosting god.

Moose · 12-05-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Superterrorizer
Sadly, this is my only nick on GFY. My concern about WHT was your posting for someone to complete your _high school_ classes online for you. That about says it all. I'm not really looking for an argument, I am just stating things as I see them. Perhaps someone should do you a favor and contact your principal and let him know what you are up to, for your own good.

Anyone who would purchase any type of service (Aside from blowjobs) from someone who can't even put forth the effort to finish highschool has some issues. Your age says a lot about you, your posting habbits and your business related threads.

For your own good, please get informed about the topics you choose to post (IE: bandwidth carriers, other hosting companies) on the board about. Reading WHT and looking up stuff on fixedorbit do not make you a hosting god.

he is in high school?
that would explain PART of his demeanor.

http · 12-05-2004, 06:44 PM

I find yours a tad too expensive for a 12 mbps commit (assuming the price is based on 95th percentile as it usually is) but if you're happy and make a decent profit after hosting expenses I still wouldn't switch. If it ain't broke...

(I pay up to $2.50 per Gig myself)

GTS Mark · 12-05-2004, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VeriSexy
The going rate is now $30/mbps

For what cogent

DH

Project-Shadow · 12-05-2004, 09:18 PM

Cogent can go for $18/mbit

I'm paying approx $65/mbit, so no $50/mbps is not too much to pay. Anything over $70 and you're getting ripped.

chaze · 12-05-2004, 09:35 PM

Depends on the provider and if it's burtable or capped or average billing.

Many factors my man.

I can sell you capped bandwidth really cheap like most do but you connection will slow down durring peak hours or durring unusual bursts. $30

Uncapped bandwidth that only charges you for the 95th percentile should be about $50

Average billing bandwidth should be about $100 if it's reduntant and with a premium provider.

More then this but here is a little summary

good luck

AndrewKanuck · 12-05-2004, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Project-Shadow
Cogent can go for $18/mbit

I'm paying approx $65/mbit, so no $50/mbps is not too much to pay. Anything over $70 and you're getting ripped.

No, not anything over 70$ is a rip. God, I've seen quotes from MCI that were 500$/mbit - that's being ripped - anything at 100 or lower is a good deal for good bandwidth and support

The Apprentice · 12-05-2004, 09:45 PM

Good deal.

Doctor Dre · 12-05-2004, 10:04 PM

It depends of the quality of the BW . If it's cogent BW, yes

macho · 12-06-2004, 09:24 AM

Yes, for cogent BW, it is ok!

11-03-2004, 03:24 PM	#1
Daft Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: ON, Canada Posts: 166	Is $50/Mbps too much to pay for hosting? So i'm paying that much for 12mbps. Is that too much? Please advise thanks!

11-03-2004, 03:27 PM	#2
Fizzgig Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: In Your Dreams Posts: 9,649	__________________ ---'-,-{@ Sassy Grrrl @}-'-,---

11-03-2004, 03:31 PM	#6
AndrewKanuck Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cleveland & Atlanta Posts: 6,706	I pay almost 100$/mbit CAD - but mine allows spamming & hosting of spamvertized sites, and is a nice blend of bandwidth __________________

11-03-2004, 03:37 PM	#9
webair Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NYC, NY Posts: 8,531	all you need to know is one company... WEBAIR.COM WILL MEET OR BEAT ANY COMPARABLE HOSTING OFFER! BEST CONNECTIVITY AND SERVICE AROUND... __________________ ~ Webair Dedicated Cloud Servers™ ~ WEBAIR VSYS™ Virtual Hosting Platform ~ Superior CDN Network ~ ~ Managed Dedicated hosting Specialists ~ DISCOUNT DOMAIN NAMES! ~ WEBAIR FUSION IO MANAGED CLOUD SERVERS! ~ *ICQ:* 243116321 - *TWITTER* - @WEBAIRINC - E-Mail: [email protected]

11-03-2004, 03:39 PM	#11
SinSational Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,723	yeah, too much. depends on hardware, service, support, bandwidth, etc. __________________ ICQ# 273099174 - monthly specials - 2 Month Free Credit on All Plans - 100% Referrals - chris@ for details Virtual from $14.95/month, Dedicated from $149.95/month Dual-Core Xeon > 1000GB @ $149.95 \| 1500GB @ $169.95 \| 10Mbps @ $269.95 Last edited by SinSational; 11-03-2004 at 03:41 PM..

11-03-2004, 03:29 PM	#3
boner 2.0 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 10,970	With which host? Dedicated or Colo?

11-03-2004, 03:35 PM	#8
Moose Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Here Posts: 1,548	Is paying $5000 for a car too much? If its a ford pinto..yes If its a 7 series..you got a good deal. You need to give more details with this questions to get a correct answer.

11-03-2004, 03:37 PM	#10
Magg Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: ICQ: 132497047 Posts: 4,467	Daft - for only 12 Mbps its a good deal. If you like the service especially. Dont be fooled or tempted by cheap ass pricing you see elsewhere, if you like it and you think you are getting your money's worth, its a good choice. Think about it, the cheaper you go - the differance in pricing has to be taken out of the service SOMEWHERE... Uptime, Support, Quality, etc etc many other things. $50/Mbps is fine.. We charge $75/Mbps for 10Mbps commit, but we also include a basket load of features and support - so it depends on the host. Are you happy where you are?

11-03-2004, 03:49 PM	#16
SinSational Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,723	c __________________ ICQ# 273099174 - monthly specials - 2 Month Free Credit on All Plans - 100% Referrals - chris@ for details Virtual from $14.95/month, Dedicated from $149.95/month Dual-Core Xeon > 1000GB @ $149.95 \| 1500GB @ $169.95 \| 10Mbps @ $269.95

11-03-2004, 03:51 PM	#18
cotsios Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,371	damm and we sell $15 per mbps __________________ SIGNATURE FOR SALE - SEND Icq 149389211

11-03-2004, 04:25 PM	#20
Major (Tom) Boomer Woffen Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Null Posts: 30,597	yes way too expensive... Look for 22- 32 an mbit for hosting. Thats pretty standard.. if you're not getting that you're getting ripped off.. Maybe for a paysites members area I would pay more, but not for galleries or mgp/tgp hosting. Duke __________________ My mother said, to get things done You'd better not mess with Major Tom

11-03-2004, 04:51 PM	#22
VeriSexy Join The Royal Family Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 25,463	The going rate is now $30/mbps __________________ Looking for a KICK ASS TEEN SPONSOR? Check out ROYAL CASH - THE KING OF TEEN! Incredible webmaster tools FHGs, Morphing Blog and RSS Feeds, Embedded FLV & WMV Videos. With TOP RATIO Sites like TeenStarsOnly.com - Earn $$ with our New Site & Bonus Payouts!! ATMovs.com \| iTeenVideo.com \| TeenSexMovs.com \| TeenSexMania.com

11-03-2004, 05:03 PM	#25
DavidVH Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Dallas Posts: 300	Really it just depends on the carrier. $50/Mbps on a single homed Cogent link. Then yes you're paying too much. If it is a mix of decent grade carriers. Then no $50/Mbps is perfect.

12-05-2004, 06:44 PM	#34
http Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,811	I find yours a tad too expensive for a 12 mbps commit (assuming the price is based on 95th percentile as it usually is) but if you're happy and make a decent profit after hosting expenses I still wouldn't switch. If it ain't broke... (I pay up to $2.50 per Gig myself) Last edited by http; 12-05-2004 at 06:46 PM..

12-05-2004, 09:18 PM	#36
Project-Shadow Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 7,340	Cogent can go for $18/mbit I'm paying approx $65/mbit, so no $50/mbps is not too much to pay. Anything over $70 and you're getting ripped.

12-05-2004, 09:35 PM	#37
chaze Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9,752	Depends on the provider and if it's burtable or capped or average billing. Many factors my man. I can sell you capped bandwidth really cheap like most do but you connection will slow down durring peak hours or durring unusual bursts. $30 Uncapped bandwidth that only charges you for the 95th percentile should be about $50 Average billing bandwidth should be about $100 if it's reduntant and with a premium provider. More then this but here is a little summary good luck

12-05-2004, 09:45 PM	#39
The Apprentice Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 839	Good deal. __________________ SIG 4 SALE! $2 A YEAR!

12-06-2004, 09:24 AM	#41
macho Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Internet Posts: 2,875	Yes, for cogent BW, it is ok! __________________ GayPay X2 -- #1in the niche! $35 per sign! Up to 70% revenue share! http://www.gaypay.com