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Jimmy I would lik ethe chance to go into discussion with him(I don't see blue in the face easy http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif ) But he keeps dodging my (IMHO valid) questions.
Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
wolfshade,
thehun has what's commonly referred to as R/C. IMHO http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif R/C = Resistance to Change, you see this more in us older people's. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif I thought he was in his late 20s or early 30s. I wasn't aware he was my age or older. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif Jim |
Resistance to change should not blind people for the truth
Make a dialer and ya get whacked for the charges. Make a free proggy and you get Whacked for the bookmarks. There is no pleasing em! Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
I gotta comment on one thing...
"There won't be a next time. You took 75 USD from this guy and he will NEVER pay for online porn again" Who's to say that this person won't buy a membership? He most likely got the dialer from a free site, so maybe next time he will feel safer buying a membership? I mean surfers might get the idea if they buy from a company that they won't be screwed. TheMan |
if you did not feel bad you would not be asking us! just so we can say its o.k you robed some dum guy
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How many times did any of you buy something at a store that once ripped you off. How many of you are pushing sponsors that have ripped you off in the past? How many off you are pushing sponsors that are known to rip people off (like cyberthrill casino's for example). Non. Why not? 'cause you feel ripped off.
Wolfshade, I thought you were smarter. First of all you're asking about another program that is advertised on galleries listed by me. That was not the question. One bad thing doesn't make another right. After your mail here I decided not to write about this here, but to take action. We're working on this problem with FAP. And before blacklisting 'em I want to see if things can be worked out. Just as with the dialers. Free porn didn't kill this industry. If this were true nobody would click on my banners and nobody would sign up. And then nobody would buy bannerspots on my site, I wouldn't make money and I would go broke in a heartbeat. Well, the way things are going I won't go broke. Why? Don't know. But not because free porn doesn't allow room for paid sites. A dialer downloaded that charges 75 dollars for a 25 minute call will make the caller feel ripped off. Simple as that. I would feel ripped off. For 75 dollars you can get an layed in a whorehouse. Condoms included. It's a rediculous rate for a 25 minute visit to a paysite. An honest dialer would have cut access after 20-30 bucks with a prompt saying it would be cheaper to sign up by credit card now. I'm not flat against dialers. I'm flat against ripping people off. A dialer can be PERFECT for previews. If a paysite doesn't deliver what they offer you don't have to sign up. In the Netherlands dialers charge 75 cents maximum. Still NoCreditcard has numbers in the Nethernads. Club Seventeen seems to be doing great with their liveshows through the dialer. At 75 cents a minute. Very fair price. Not a rip-off. And a perfect solution for on-line payments. I think it's kind of sad to see people insinuate I would be against change and dialers altogether. One thing: someone who doesn't change doesn't hold on in this industry for 8 years. 'nuf said about that. Dialers are no problem. AVS's are no problem (though an AVS that gives away "free" passes which is a 3 day preview deserves investigating, which is going on right now). Any company that doesn't deliver what it promises, or overcharges what they deliver will go broke. Doesn't matter if it's the real world or the Internet, it will go broke. I am 100% certain (and I think nobody in their right mind could argue with this) that any paysite would rather hear 'emselves mention in some bartalk about their good content (and it happens) instead of being in a similar talk about a 75 dollar charge for 25 minutes access... And there are dialers that charge even more... Good porn costs money. Better porn costs more money. But no on-line porn is justified at 75 dollars for 25 minutes, which is what my comments were about. Give people what they expect. Charge people a fair amount for what they're getting. THAT will make you money in the long run. |
I agree with that!!
Of course all paysites use some tricks to make extra bucks. But some sites charge just an insane amount of money. 40$ to have a month access to good porn for a whole month isn't bad. 75$ for 25 minutes is as bad as it can be. How would you feel if you enter a bar and the bartender offers you a beer and tells you it's free. And when you leave the bar there's a guy stopping you and tells you you have to pay 25$ for the beer. It's on the signs he says. |
Ok I'll be the nitwit to stand up and say I read the MS Disclaimer.... I read ALL disclaimers.... if you've ever been near me when I am setting up a new program, it takes me forever because I always read those damn things. I do it with everything I buy anywhere. LOL
Hun.. let me just say this straight up before I go any further....... I admire your convictions and your steadfast beliefs and the fact that you don't change your views or opinions because of anyone or anything. That is a very admirable trait in anyone, and I love ya for it. So don't think for one minute that I am bashing you or saying you are wrong..... one is never wrong for thier beliefs and the ability to stand up for them. Ok having said this, and I have some pretty strong beliefs on this as well, and I am not going to be swayed. I used to feel the same way you did, babe.... I hated the damn things and nothing or no one was about to change my mind for no amount of money. BUT I worked and worked and sweated and worked even harder and no matter what I did, all I was doing was giving this porn away and not making a damn dime off of it. I am not as big as you so I can't sell adspace or be happy with 1 cent from every surfer who visits my site, if I did that, I'd still be unable to pay my bills with just my sites alone...... I don't have near the traffic on ANY of my sites combined to do that. SOOOO, I have to make it where I can so I can pay my bills. I don't market things as free like some if they aren't indeed free..... I don't post the costs no, but neither do you, I'd be willing to bet...... It's not our job to tell them how much it costs, it's theirs to ask how much it is going to cost them. I don't walk into a store and just buy something without first asking how much it costs... if I do then this is my own stupidity and not the stores, right? Neither do I hide behind my disclaimer..... I give them the tools, if they choose not to use these tools then how am I at fault for their not using them? I can't be all things to all people...... however, I don't lie and cheat them either...... I tried to run a cj site once and I felt bad about the popups because I hate the damn things myself so I shut it down. I totally believe and agree that we have to take some responsibility, but at what point does THEIR responsibility come into this? They are adults, and if they aren't then they have parents who are and it's that parent's responsibility to take in teaching their kids right from wrong..... am I right here? If everyone that had a product to sell worried about the buyer then no one would ever make a dime...... and I sincerely believe this.... we can take responsibility only so far and the rest is up to the buyer here...... I think it's called Buyer Beware...... That guy that paid the $75 for the 25 minutes of pleasure? No one has asked him if he was ok with it...... maybe he was, who knows? Or maybe he wasn't!! At any rate, it was HIS choice to make, not ours. We make our own choices in life and who am I to tell him his choices are right or wrong, just it is not my place to tell you that the choices you yourself make are wrong. At the same I make my own choices. I choose to sell dialers, you don't. It's all cool, I respect you for your decisions not to and I would hope you respect my decisions to sell them. Yeah yeah yeah.... I am shutting up now. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!! |
SR.... it's those ones that tell you it's going to be free that piss me off....... and I don't care if the Hun himself signed up with me........ ok we all know he won't.... I use him as an example because he has more traffic than anyone I know...... but say he signed up with me.... and I caught him selling MY dialer as free, I'd shut his ass down in a New York Minute..... I am not one to say, "Well you are huge and make me tons of cash, ok you can use the word free" I have seen people do this and I frankly don't care if you are GOD, if you are "selling" my dialer as free, I'll have your ass shut down, and trust me, I am so into every site my dialer is run on...... if I see it, they are down........ and I also don't let them keep running it til I make some cash, they are shut down NOW!!!!
I was once asked if I thought someone should be shut down because they produce alot of minutes and are using the word free, and I told them hell YES!!!!!! That is blatant lying and cheating and while they represent MY company, it will NOT be tolerated. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif And like it or not, anyone using my dialer is representing my company and I want it run as such.... honestly... it may cost them a fortune but it is honest, we don't buy into lying and cheating at all. Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!! |
Tam, valid points. You will never hear may say to anybody that he can't use dialers. That's everybody's own decision. I do however have control over what is listed on my site... But you already know that ;-)
I am very stong with my opinion on these things though. Especially when it comes to unfair amounts of money. 25 minutes charged at 75 USD is a high price. Indeed in this particular case the guy knew what he was paying. But I think it's not a blind bet to doubt that (funny to realise this guy has no idea what discussions his 25 minute call had). If dialers were clear about what they'd cost I wouldn't object at all. If a paysite wants to charge 100 USD for access to their site for a month and it's clear that people have to pay the 100 USD the throught of not liking it wouldn't even occur to me. In an honest world I would assume that site has exceptionally good content. With the name the Internet is starting to have (and you hear that everywhere) many people would think it's a rip-off... |
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Very well said Tam.
Jim |
Hun.... no kidding....... I bet he'd feel he was getting his 15 minutes of fame as a result of his getting off....... LMAO
Ok here is the first part of my disclaimer, way before the technical crap that everyone gets tired of and just says to hell with it and clicks ok...... not saying I am better than anyone..... but just to let you know that we aren't ALL out to rip the surfer totally blind....... as you will see it is very clear they will be charged, and this is in the very top of our dialers: "VARADOX COMMUNICATIONS CORPORATION ("Varadox") DIALER SOFTWARE AGREEMENT CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING AGREEMENT. THE SOFTWARE IS FOR USE SOLELY BY RESPONSIBLE ADULTS OVER THE AGE OF 18 OR THE AGE OF CONSENT IN THE JURISDICTION FROM WHICH YOU ARE DOWNLOADING THE SOFTWARE. THERE WILL BE A PER MINUTE CHARGE ASSOCIATED WITH EVERY USE OF THE SOFTWARE OF: USA - 4.99 USD United - Kingdom 1.50 GBP Germany - 3.53 DEM All Others - Int'l Long Distance Applies BY CLICKING ON THE "ACCEPT" BUTTON, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, CLICK THE "DO NOT ACCEPT" BUTTON AND PROCEED NO FURTHER." You have the Company Name, of which we never try and hide....... Then you have the "you better damn well be an adult" thing, and then there is the costs..... very clear and very cut and dry.... and then they go off into this neverending disclaimer.... but always always we put the Company name and costs very close to the top of the dialer disclaimer we use. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif So when I say that not all of us are crooked and dishonest, I mean it. We do our very best to see that if they are about to spend alot of damn money, then they know about it...... some of the costs are buried way down at the bottom of all that "boring shit" so no one ever gets there... we did our very best to put the most important points as close to the top as we could get them...... in an effort to make it as honest as we possibly can. AND I totally agree with you... you have always put what you want on YOUR site.... and if I have something you don't want there, I just don't submit to you, as do I with some that don't want this or that..... I won't have anyone telling me how to run my sites and neither will I tell them how to run theirs..... it's ok to agree to disagree, but it is NOT ok to go and say I hate him because he doesn't believe in what I believe in. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!! |
4.99 a minute... that's 120 USD for 25 minutes... phew...
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With a 4.75 discount that is...
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Yeah but you look at some.. they charge up to $10 a minute and then they bury that at the bottom..... we are quite honest about what they pay.......
I wouldn't pay it either, but then I wouldn't pay $50 for a steak dinbner either, shit I could feed my kids for a week on that.... but people toss their cash out the door on some pretty strange things.......... Even I spend my money in what some thing are weird ways, but it's mine....... My point here is, Hun, we don't bury or hide our costs to anyone..... surfer or otherwise........ would you agree with this? Tam ------------------ May the Force Be With YOU!! Up to $0.80 a minute!!Also taking broker apps! You too can be Vectorized!! [This message has been edited by Tam (edited 07-25-2001).] |
Hun,
When you install a dialer of mine it tells you straight on teh first page what it costs. Then it repeats that 3 times during the install. if after all that the surfer still uses it YOU CAN NOT POSSIBLY BLAME me for it or the dialercompany that made the thing. Stupidity like that just BEGS to be rewarded and it does. I agree you decide what goes on your site and what not but you came in to this thread with a very loud opinion about ethics which is fine also but then I deliver critique on your own rules. I mean if you can I can right? And yes I am smarter then that where I not this would be a pissing match http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif BTW with investigating do you mean investigatingthe AVS or the submitter of that gallery? Because if it's the AVS you're doing it the wrong way around again in my opinion. You see I am all for a BAN on unethical advertising on galleries I am AGAINS banning sponsors or sponsorprograms. I think you should work it that way. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
JESUS !!!
If anybody is stupid enough to pay $75 for 25 minutes of who knows what ... send ME your $75 and I will hook you up with 800 MINUTES of my VIDEOS ON DEMAND !!! These are all the same commercially available movies you see on the shevles of you local adult movie store ... Just my opinion ... but $75 for 25 mins is like those 30 minute "girl lying in the beach, with waves flowing over her thong" commercials, which state ONCE at the end of the 30 minute spot, that there is a $50 charge to call .... But to really play Devil's Advocate ... you guys RUNNING somebody else's dialer, are JUST AS STUPID as that poor surfer !!! If all you made from that $75 dollar call was $8 ... you need to take a business course or something ... you are making the person who owns the dialer rich ... while you make almost FUCK ALL !!! WAKE UP !!! I am going to reduce my 60% recurring commission on my affiliate program to 2% if that is the case !!! ------------------ http://www.exxxtrememedia.com/embut.gif A boneprone Family Member :D |
Wolf, we're investigating the 'free' that's advertised... the wording on that needs to be changed.
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You must be using some new industry changing technology if you can provide streaming video to FREE sites and pay more than .35-.45 a minute. You must be the "Hun" of streaming technology. |
Mr Hun,
In page http://www.thehun.net/webmaster/ you are pushing dialercompany (nocreditcard.com) for webmasters why? |
Hun,
Don't take this the wrong way as it is not meant to bash you in any way but I have to say this: I frequent your pages often to check the galleries and possibly get some new ideas. Those pages you are now investigating have been posted for months now and only recently you noticed? With all due respect I find that a little hard to believe. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
hmm
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Exxxotica, the only reason you dont feel bad about using dialers is the same reason you dont feel bad about stealing songs off Napster - you have no morals. You probably also use hacked and cracked softare and steal content.
If you guys think anyone reads your 1000 word disclaimers, you must be imbeciles. If you really wanted to be honest, you would print the charge in clear bold type on the main software instead of hiding it in some disclaimer you know everyone is used to ignoring. Your argument seems to be that stupid people need to be punished. I havent heard anything weaker than that. Being stupid is less of a sin than being a thief. In that case you guys ought to be paying up more than those guys who were stupid enough to download your leeching dialers. Anyone who uses a dialer would probably be robbing and stealing from people if it were as easy as using a dialer. You know in your heart you are doing the wrong thing, you are only trying to convince yourself otherwise with your feeble arguments. |
Hmm? c'mon bone speak up!
Say what ya mean and mean what ya say http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
Hypo:
A few facts: FACT In the first 3 lines on the terms of my dialer it says what it costs per minute. FACT It gets repeated 2 times after that(totalling 3) FACT The user has to click on agree to install it FACT I have customers using my dialers(surfers) that are very happy because the anonymity of the dialer provides them a sense of security and teh knowledge their CC information will not be spread online(It's childlike easy to get CC # and that's a fact too) They feel the added service is worth the charge. So in a Nutshell I would say before you judge you should know what you are talking about. Second If you go to the store and buy a VCR don't read the warranty, break it and discover it's not within the warranty so you have to pay for the repairs. Who's at fault? You for not reading or the supplier? If you get an insurance policy and don't read the fine print only to discover that when your house burns down by lightning it's not covered by it because there is a clause that says natural disasters are not included. Who's at fault you for not reading or the insurance company? Same thing goes for online stuff. We provide the tools to call in at a charge we seem fit to ask. we deliver the means to see the cost open and in plain view. It is the consumers CHOICE not to read or ignore the terms and we as webmasters can NOT be held accountable for that. And that is basically why I feel that the position TGP owners have taken towards dialers is wrong. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
Pretty weak defends Wolf... First of all: dialers are NOT anonimous. A bill for the exact amount of minutes you called will be delivered to your house. If you run the dialer-server yourself you know that in the database of it there's the phonenumber of the person that called (that's a home phonenumber, so you know the exact location and name of the person, even his phonenumber, which is more than you can tell from a creditcard number). Not reading the "small print" is no excuse for dialers that rip people off. Why do you think it's called "small print". It's to stay on the legal side, but at the same time try to hide some things from people in the hope some would not read it. It's putting up a little sign on a streat saying "entering this will get you mugged"... is it fair to hit people that enter anyway for hitting 'em over the head with a club and robbing 'em blind for not reading the sign? Again, I'm not against dialers, and your dialer might change a reasonable sum of money. But when people have to pay 75 USD for a 25 minute call it's a rip-off. And THAT'S what this whole discussion is about!
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Hun don't make me smack ya http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif
Seriously you are dead wrong and therefor I ask you to read my reply again: Quote:
Second As for anonimity I was referring to the CC info. I do not know about you but I know at least 300!!! people that been screwed when entering their CC info to buy something online. Like I said It's childlike easy to get that info in fact if I wanted to I could reap 200 CC # within the hour! With dialers you don't have that problem as that info is never disclosed. Trust me when I say that gives some people(specialy the ones that experienced what I mentioned above) a REAL SENSE OF SECURITY http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif Now I wouldn't call this a weak defense I sure as hell will call this a true defense. It's realy simple Hun the price is in plain view and if you dont like it don't use it. It is not up to you or me to determine what things should cost it's up to the consumer to decide wether he/she wants to pay it or not. There is no hidden cost here, but people do ignore terns and I truly feel that is their problem not ours. Therefor I stick to my opinion TGP owners with a stand against dialers are wrong. Just like the ones doing trades within their listings yet forbid blind links on a gallery Or TGP's listing free programs that bill ya anyway for that matter http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/tongue.gif Have an opinion fine Have a rule fine too But practise what you preach and don't allow the one while banning the other http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] [This message has been edited by wolfshade (edited 07-27-2001).] |
I don't even use dialers. Not yet anyway. But I think you do have point Wolfshade. I've known people with a lot of money that don't give a fuck what they spend as long as they get what they want.
Some people spend shitloads of money on Dom perignon and fine scotch. Not me, cause it doesn't mean anything to me. If I want alchohol I'll get some cheap beer. Back in my younger days I would pay topdollar for the kind bud. Others thought I was crazy and would only get the cheap mexican shit. What I'm trying to get at is things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. $75 for 25 min. when they could pay $30 for a month of a paysite doesn't necessarily mean anything. People sell water two dollars a bottle. I can walk over to the sink and get all of the water I can stand to drink. I think what's worse is that the customer pays $75 and the webmaster only makes $8 Just my $.02 |
Amen brother! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif
As far as teh 8 bucks go you have to take into account that maintaining the lines and equipment is very expensive though. it's not all profit(I wish!) Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected] |
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