Hun,

Were you in a regular (not online) business I would agree with you but online it works a little different consumers go where they can get stuff the cheapest and right now free porn fits that bill.

Therefor bannerclicks decrease on ALL sites your sites my sites and those linksites etc. Dialers on the other hand make good money more then any banner you wanna compare it to you also see more and more sites promoting it. Now the per run and per call proggies have arrived and will take up a large chunk of that market too. Bottom line if advertising the regular way(banners etc...) fail and they do more and more webmasters will use other means.

The free programs will get better once there is more then just one company offering it which will in turn I think replace the traditional free site as we know them today.

AVS will take up the rest and TGP's will get a hard time as a lot of freehosts will go downunder(sad but true, a lot are struggling allready) and once they gotta pay for the bandwidth your traffic takes up, I think you will see a significant decrease in gallery submissions too.

You can take my word on it things will not get better but they will get a lot worse, unless you are able to act on the situation and change with the climate. Look at it as the curse of the freesites.

One last remark I'm not looking for dirt on you at all. As I stated before I'm not out to bash you. I do feel it important to point out that before you start saying against!! that you have to make sure you don't do it yourself. That's not dirt thats fact in public view for everyone to see on your own site.

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

(Yawn) The same old song and dance..

Wolfshade: I don't know how much the dialer(s) found on TheHun's page charge -- I didn't even look at them -- but I think he said he doesn't mind dialers so long as they only charge a small(er) fee (like those .75/minute dialers he spoke of elsewhere). Perhaps those cheaper dialers are the ones listed on his site?

I could be wrong about that (since I didn't even look) and I don't want to speak for TheHun http://www.plauder-smilies.de/viking.gif ... just bringing this possibitlty to attention so you two aren't on different pages wrt this particular moiety. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif

The real free problem here is the fact that people who still have day jobs working the Fryolator at MickeyD's can start a business over nite, at nite, and with nothing but a few minutes of their own time.

Free hosts, free content, free drinks, free food at shows, the free list goes on and on and on. If this weren't an industry populated by freeloaders maybe we wouldn't be reading the same discussions over and over again...

It's not about dialers, it's not about recurring, and it's not about cheating or tricking anyone.

It's about what the market will bear and simple economics. In the same way that all industries mature if they are to remain industries, this one will sort itself into the haves and have nots on a grand scale. The mom n pops in the middle will make a living, a few will still make a killing and the rest will go back to making those french fries.

Dialers that don't have a ridiculous price tag (and don't ask me what's ridiculous, I'm still trying to figure out if Miss Cleo's charging too much, too little, how does the woman really KNOW http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif ), recurring billing, there's nothing wrong with either, as long as the proper disclosure is there and the consumer has a chance to be aware of it. If the consumer fails to read it or simply disregards it, well that would be akin to me suing Chevrolet because my V8 engine sucks down the gas and it costs me 50 bucks every time I fill up... I can hear the GM lawyers in court right now -- gee it was right there on the sticker, Your Honor, I don't know why she didn't read it...

Bottom line is this -- if you aren't making any money, maybe it's time to look for something else to do.

And maybe some people should spend less time trying to tell people what to do under the guise of protecting their surfers when its really protecting their own income. At least be honest with yourself and the people you depend on to run your business.

I love people who sit and say how they hate TGPs.. yes, I do agree TGPs hurt the industry, but they're not going anywhere, and they have the most traffic out there, so you can sit there and complain, or make galleries and try to capture some of the market... SIMPLICITY at its best ;-)

Bone, we always wondered why the paysites etc don't take a page from the BBS days... pop up a Warning when you are going to expire in 3 days... to allow the user to decide to reup or not... also could add the options of pay methods so if they choose to go say 900 this time, they can.

Copyright? 2001 Gem* - All rights reserved.
http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif

"And maybe some people should spend less time trying to tell people what to do under the guise of protecting their surfers when its really protecting their own income. At least be honest with yourself and the people you depend on to run your business."

Well said Kimmykim http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif


------------------
Submit your free sites for free traffic

Kimmykim I would like to add a huge AMEN.

And this is what alot of people are scared
of and I mean very scared of.

"And maybe some people should spend less time trying to tell peoplewhat to do under the guise of protecting their surfers when its really protecting their own income. At least be honest with yourself andthe people you depend on to run your business."

Saw the same type fear when I was in the Scale business (for 30 years) saw it many many times.

You could not believe it when Electronic Scale first came out. You talk about fear and I can not tell you how many times I heard they'll never last. Now ain't that one. Me I just got my white on down to the Jr College and took 3 or 4 courses.
Of course I had a very hard time with those courses being a 5th grade drop out.

Jim

[This message has been edited by jimmyf (edited 07-25-2001).]

Hm...
Hun is right.

He says he is against RIPPING OFF.
Which is correct when it comes to 70$ per 25 minutes. That's 2.80$ per minute.

A day got 1440 minutes.
30 days got 43 200 minutes. That's 120 960$

A month costs 30-40 dollars at a paysite with a credit card.

Check out the difference.

The only problem is that it's HUN who says it.
The common mistake is - TGPs are bad. But they are not RIPP OFFs unfortunately. Just a usual EDGE of a biz practice. Any practice has it's edges.
The difference between the EDGE and RIPP OFF is that the EDGE is bad - but it's still just an edge of what's considered normal. RIPP OFF is not.

Think about free sites. All free porn resources. TGPs are just an edge of what's considered normal, and You cant run this biz without free content.

Now,if giving out FREE content is legal and considered OK - than You will always have Your TGPs. It's just an edge of a possibility. Remove all Huns and Worldsexes or make them all show softcore only - it will always be an endless fight with hungry newcomers who'll come and take their places and that would be so for as long as giving ANY free content is OK.

Now. Taking several bucks per minute is NOT normal and a ripp off.
Know why?
Cause people cant take their money back. That is however strange THE REAL reason.

In credit card billing You got chargebacks. You make Your site's members area a piece of shit and rebill everyone without their will - guess what, You're fucked. Chargebacks come - and You go.

Because THE QUALITY FOR THE PRICE is what matters. You can make a members area a bit better and sell it not for 40$ but say for 80$.
But if the price is raised to 120K per month than the quality should be raised at least SOMEHOW equally. If not - it's a ripp off cause it's same level of service wich costs 40$ per month.

Now a RIPP OFF hurts all of us. And A LOT. Cause RIPP OFFs kill trust. And trust in quality is equal to Your income.

Sorry for my english folks.

Recently on my vacation in Florida I used my cellphone to call back home.I just got a bill.
You know what they charged me? $4 dollars
a min.
Is that Ripp off? And I am talking about
huge company(Bell Canada) not some small website.

The question here then is: would you think twice about using your cell phone in Florida on your next vacation?

Would you at least cut back and use it only when necessary and remain conscientious of every second you talked?

Or would you just dial back home and talk as normal without a second thought?




[This message has been edited by DragonAss (edited 07-25-2001).]

Very good post Kimmykim--------(clapping)

payment systems - hmmm
thousands of surfers here in austria can use cable or adsl to surf for porn. and there are more every day - same thing in germany.

why should these guys use dialers ? most of them go to paysites - pay 4.95 for a trial and get what they want within a couple of hours, then they cancel (specially those who come from tgps) - have you checked the stats of your partnership programs? mine say that only 40% go from trial to regular memberships - but 90% of these guys stay for at least 4 month.
in my opinion - content rules and i promote big sites with tons of daily updated content only - it makes no sense to go for some quick $$ and loose the surfer forever.

about TGPs are killing the industry - i´m not sure if they do - i know their traffic is pure crap but they are great to post doorways and get more SE traffic - thats the reason why i post to them and as a bonus they give me a signup or two per day - so they work fine for me as long as i dont have to pay the bandwith.


hun - you are 100% right - it is a problem that TGPs ar limiting the advertising on galleries and i wonder WHY you do not allow a good done FPA with 20 clickable pics on your list.

ok, its getting late now - bye

tom

lets change the topic to that of Penis programs.. Do they work?
Ive got a good fuckin story for you guys about this shit concerning DANK..

Its a fucking classic.... But maybe next time.

Excactly, what is a dialer? I've been using normal signup and ppc programs for years, but never dialers..

Anyone? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif

Kimmy! Well said I agree 100%

Tom: you said it "As long as you don't have to pay for the Bandwidth" What do you think it does with the ones that do have to pay for the bandwidth you burn? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/wink.gif

Wolfshade


------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

Dude...are you for real?

Hook him up with the Jesus Dialer.

Yeah goddamnit, I am for real!

I started in the adult biz in 98/99 when I lived in Luxembourg. Then I moved back to norway in eary 2k, and started again late fall 2000. I am primarily a PHP coder, but I own 3 domains I wanna make some loads of cash with.

I have heard of dialers, but never tried it, never read about it. But if ya wanna hook me up with anything, you ought'a do it right now, cuz I am going to bed.. Remember, it is 10AM in norway now. I haven't slept yet! Can you believe I am tired? Yes, I think you can believe so.

Have a good nite!
ICQ# 117683133
(I think, if not, search for enoj or something with mail-adress [email protected])

wolf,
i know exactly what it does, had my galleries on a dedicated server until dezember last year and switched to free domain hosting when i saw that the traffic is crap and sucks bandwith like shit !

I hate cheaters as well. We constantly are checking for cheaters who trick or force downloads and BAM they're gone.

------------------
Machine
Webmastercommerce.com
Jerkoffhere.com

[This message has been edited by Machine (edited 07-26-2001).]