Are we killing the business? - GoFuckYourself.com

wolfshade · 07-25-2001, 04:17 AM

I think not.

As the other thread started to become a discussion about using dialers or not but is going towards other billing methods also I though it best to voice my opnion in a new thread:

The Hun's opinion is

Quote:

People indeed have to be protected. An honest business will always work best in the long run. People don't mind spending money if they get their money's worth. And that trust has to be built up. Once that has been accomplished I'm sure people will spend way more than 75 USD on-line. Might be over a pretty long time-span. But you can be assured that Exxxotica turned this visitor into the "freeloader" that everybody seems to be so scared off. You're ruining your own business people!!

I do not agree with that.

Face it people Porn is the best selling product online, and since the beginning of time Sex has always been in great demand in one form or another.

Throughout the ages one thing has remained consistant: Porn is expensive.

Example go to a Sexclub order a beer, then go to a regular pub and other that same beer. Notice the price difference?

Now with the comming of the internet, porn has become easier to obtain by those that seek to remain anonymous. also the phenomena "free Porn" arrived which started all the arguing about this topic in the first place.

My take on the matter is that Dialers, Per run programs, exit pops CC billing or whatever is NOT killing the porn industry. What it is killing is the FREE PORN industry.
that resides at the moment.

Face it if they loose the trust of the surfer they will not buy. If they do not buy the free site makes no money on the ads. Thus eventualy Free sites will die, leaving only paysites to remain, be it through a dialer or a CC system.

In turn the surfer will have no more choice then to pay for his/her porn. that in turn will create a new need for free sites which will re-emerge and the game starts all over again.

I see this business as a circle, things long died out years ago I see now uprising again and things that were hot yesterday are slowly fading but I'm sure they will re-emerge in the not so distant future when the need for it is again created.

The only reason IMHO most large TGP's are against dialers etc... is not as they say because they want/need to protect the surfer but to protect their free business, which is fine but then they should be honest about that.

IMHO all free site owners must keep in mind that their "FREE" business is a temporary one, as the adult webmaster of a free site must always be ready to jump on the next "free" bandwagon. For a few years it has been TGP's dominating the "free" scene tomorrow it could be toplists that will reign in the next couple of years.

I allready see toplists re-emerging ready to take over as I know a few that do more then 100k dialy and climbing fast.

Moral to the story is that I can certainly understand The Hun's dislike to dialers as they are one of the factors threathening his business, but so are paysites doing CC billing and trick the member into rebillling, and the so called "free AVS systems" etc...

So for me the bottom line is that TGP owners should stop pointing at dialers and dialer like programs as to blame for all problems, because that simply is not true and in fact even the pay per call dialers are declined by The Hun so there definately is a double standard at work.
An understandable one but a double standard anyway, much like the TGP's using blind links in their gallery listings in order to feed their trades, yet refuse to list galleries containing blind links.

Porn as we know it will never die, but like everything on the Internet Porn will always be subject to change, and I think it is foolish of traffic mongers like The Hun, Al4a etc.. to think just because they get a zillion hits they can direct the way the change is headed because they can't. That is up to the webmasters suplying their content not them.

Ok I'm going to shut da hell up now and give my paws a rest

My 50 cents a minute

Wolfshade

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Lightning · 07-25-2001, 09:23 AM

Wolfshade, I wont get into the my opinion on the dialer thing here now, but I do have to say you are right on the money with all you said.. All very true and accurate statements...

The Hun · 07-25-2001, 09:51 AM

If this were true then why are people still clicking on the banners on my site?

E-van · 07-25-2001, 10:39 AM

Porn has been with us for too much time, there was porn and prostitution and jacking off when man was living in caves...
the difference is that it evolves, it goes from one stage to the other.
History comes in cicles, and it repeats itself every so often, as soon as the next generation gets to forget their Father's mistakes and repeats them.

The internet provides us with a much faster way of developing those cicles, it evolves at 100x speed than the rest of the world.

I think wolfshade is right in that the free site owner will have to evolve as the trends go around, the big dialer boom came about a year ago, and it's now on it's decline, the join 4 free proggies had a much shorter live, big bang then slow decline.

People say don't put all your eggs in one basket, and they are right, I'm suffering from this problem myself, I just lost a couple of my baskets and I'm left on a tight rope.

I'm just sitting here trying to see what's next on the industry, trying to keep myself up to times, wolfshade, you're betting on toplists, I think that's one good bet, still, I like to keep my eyes open for more options, just in case

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wolfshade · 07-25-2001, 12:48 PM

Damn all this posting and right before I go on holidays pfffffffff I LOVE IT!!!!

But nevertheless my posts today are meant to be serious though I must admit I enjoy it

Hun,

Are you trying to tell me that you have just as many clicks on your banners then when you first hit the 800,000 hits mark?

I don't believe that for a second!

You have a shitload of traffic, and therefor it won't hurt you as much(yet) then the little guy buy you cannot tell me that the income from your banners hasn't decreased.

E-Van I'm betting on toplists and picposts
Also CJ will make a come back I'm sure.

I think that in the not so distant future we will have The Hun's Thumbs up doing the 1 million hits a day, The yellow pages playing second violin to Thumbs up and we'll see the birth of The Yellow Toplist

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

E-van · 07-25-2001, 01:03 PM

Wolfshade, I see we think quite alike in our bets, I'm not so sure about the picpost game, but I will definitively do some research on it, I'm already doing my homework over the toplist and CJ thingie

hmmm, the yellow toplist? how many hits for #1 ? pfffff

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jimmyf · 07-25-2001, 01:23 PM

E-Van I'm betting on top lists and picposts
Also CJ will make a come back I'm sure.

You can take CJ and stuff 'em, now you what to talk about Fucking with the surfer.

I had a page on The Hun's Thumbs Up ONCE.
That was enough for me. Jesus a Christ Shit Fire And Save match's did that cost me some
money, the B/W was out of fucking site.

I finally just gave up and quit buying more.
Then after it went off Thumbs UP it was another 2 or 3 days before my other pages came back because Verio/Best
counts CPU hits.

I have to admit it was 100% my fault, didn't do my home work, man was that a screw up on my part.

TheHun do you think Thumbs Up will be bigger
than the Yellow Pages?

You do know you'll be working for Mrs TheHun then. She just might give up a BBW
every morning to get the day started.

So getting pages on sites like Thumbs Up,
someone better get ready to put some $$$ out.
Most free hosting does not allow hot linking so ????

[This message has been edited by jimmyf (edited 07-25-2001).]

Doctor Dre · 07-25-2001, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Hun:
If this were true then why are people still clicking on the banners on my site?

Hell yes they do ! I have over 15 000 clicks per day =p
But the question is : Do they signup ?

The answer is : NO

The Hun · 07-25-2001, 01:29 PM

Thumbs-up won't be bigger I think. It's a nice page and the admin is not that much work, but I doubt it will even be bigger than the Yellow Pages...

Scarab · 07-25-2001, 01:29 PM

Bandwidth bill makes you smile too...

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Ludedude · 07-25-2001, 01:37 PM

The problem with dialers is not the service per se, but rather the fucked up bullshit way you guys try to force it down the surfer's throat.

Blindlinking thumbs to .exe's, pop-up hells, active-x download jobs etc.

The dialer itself is no doubt a good service to those that can't or don't want to use a credit card to pay for porn. The guerilla marketing of those things is what has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Maybe if the marketing was more sales-pitch than "stuff it down the throat," more people would be inclined to click on shit.

I have no problem selling stuff to free porn surfers but I don't stick it in their bag and charge them for it without asking.

Just my $.03 worth.

E-van · 07-25-2001, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyf:

So getting pages on sites like Thumbs Up,
someone better get ready to put some $$$ out.
Most free hosting does not allow hot linking so ????

I think that a large portion of the ultimate and natural solution to all the free sites dying discussion lies here. It's starting to cost money to get started the right way in this biz... and I don't think there's nothing wrong with this, it's a business, you have to treat it as a business...

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Rose · 07-25-2001, 01:56 PM

"Hell yes they do ! I have over 15 000 clicks per day =p
But the question is : Do they signup ?

The answer is : NO"

Why would they when we feed them with 1 000's
free pics and videos every day

Mark · 07-25-2001, 02:17 PM

Dialers are cool, if a surfer spends $75 on a call then thats fine by me - either he will learn his lesson and use a credit card next time, or he will go look for free stuff or he will still use the dialer coz it serves his needs such as anonymity, no credit card required, and hopefuly good content. As long as the dialer does not mislead the surfer then there is no problem - if the surfer really thinks he got screwed it is possible to chargeback for that call same as with a credit card charge.

At the end of the day people need to be taught to pay for what they want and not to expect everything free.

There is now and always will be a place for free sites on the net - as feeders for premium sites (paysites/dialers/avs etc).

This industry is always changing and that is a good thing - just gotta make sure you're always on the ball!

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LiamH4P · 07-25-2001, 02:45 PM

I don't know if this is strictly a dialers vs. memberships debate, but on the topic of making money from surfers without ripping them off, while being totally up-front about what it's going to cost them...

I interviewed the operator of CyberNet Digital today, a company that offers a service that lets surfers download video on a pay-per-movie kind of basis. Apparrently they can pay to just watch it the one time, or "rent" it for a week, or buy it outright. It seemed pretty cool.

The site was www.cybernetdigital.com , although there wasn't a ton of information about the service on it.

Granted, I think it's designed more as a distribution method for people who are creating content, but could it work as a way for a webmaster to make money?

I guess if I knew the answer to that, I'd be rolling in my piles of porn-money instead of writing for a website, right?

Just thought it was interesting.

Liam

Rose · 07-25-2001, 02:46 PM

There is strange idea that people
join one pay site then cancel and join another one.
I'd say over 90% sign ups is from new surfers.They get on line and must try.Then they cancel and never join again.
what for.I can give you URL where you can get 100's of full lenght hardcore movies for free ,new ones every day.And they get educated very quickly about availability of free porn on the net.

wolfshade · 07-25-2001, 03:08 PM

Interesting thoughts all of em

First I don't think all free sites will die, just like with everything the strong ones (like The Hun) will survive. Perhaps in modified form but nevertheless survive.

The lion share however will die and return in different shapes also only where sites like The Yellow Pages will remain teh Yellow pages will those webmasters just start something completely new.

I'm the perfect example of changes:

I started building free sites on freehosting back in 94(before that I run BBS's) that gave me enough $$$ to start my own freehost, after that I sold it and started producing livefeeds which has been my core business till a year ago. Now it's sharing the #1 position of moneymakers with my programs and webmaster resources, freesites have become a hobby and I sold all my AVS sites and the ones I didn't sell I just closed them and used the webspace for new stuff.

The only thing I still do and will keep on doing is raise traffic, for the simple reason to stay on the ball. I need to know what's up in teh bizz in order to provide the support to webmasters either on the freehosts I do support for or my resources site and offcourse help my webmasters that promote my products.

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

wolfshade · 07-26-2001, 01:49 AM

Quote:

There is strange idea that people
join one pay site then cancel and join another one.
I'd say over 90% sign ups is from new surfers.They get on line and must try.Then they cancel and never join again.
what for.I can give you URL where you can get 100's of full lenght hardcore movies for free ,new ones every day.And they get educated very quickly about availability of free porn on the net.

I think that says it all

TGP traffic is not crap traffic but it is VERY SMART TRAFFIC consisting out of people that know what they want and where to get it for free. Therefor the regular sales tactics don't work, and since other developements in that field are being bashed down by the big boys in TGP land I again state: TGP's are their own worsed enemy.

Then again I just completed a toplist experiment that got me

1 - 50 k daily to my pages
2 - Makes me over $ 100 bucks a day
3 - takes me 50% less time to do then the TGP posting thing.

I think we have a winner in the free site department!

Wolfshade

------------------
Wolfshade's Moneymakers

Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!!

It's the choice of an Adult generation!

ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-25-2001, 09:23 AM	#2
Lightning Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 870	Wolfshade, I wont get into the my opinion on the dialer thing here now, but I do have to say you are right on the money with all you said.. All very true and accurate statements...

07-25-2001, 09:51 AM	#3
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	If this were true then why are people still clicking on the banners on my site?

07-25-2001, 10:39 AM	#4
E-van Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mex Posts: 447	Porn has been with us for too much time, there was porn and prostitution and jacking off when man was living in caves... the difference is that it evolves, it goes from one stage to the other. History comes in cicles, and it repeats itself every so often, as soon as the next generation gets to forget their Father's mistakes and repeats them. The internet provides us with a much faster way of developing those cicles, it evolves at 100x speed than the rest of the world. I think wolfshade is right in that the free site owner will have to evolve as the trends go around, the big dialer boom came about a year ago, and it's now on it's decline, the join 4 free proggies had a much shorter live, big bang then slow decline. People say don't put all your eggs in one basket, and they are right, I'm suffering from this problem myself, I just lost a couple of my baskets and I'm left on a tight rope. I'm just sitting here trying to see what's next on the industry, trying to keep myself up to times, wolfshade, you're betting on toplists, I think that's one good bet, still, I like to keep my eyes open for more options, just in case ------------------ Phat Sites Need Phat Hosting Get PHAT And Now You can Get even Phatter! TGP Hosting Special!

07-25-2001, 12:48 PM	#5
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Damn all this posting and right before I go on holidays pfffffffff I LOVE IT!!!! But nevertheless my posts today are meant to be serious though I must admit I enjoy it Hun, Are you trying to tell me that you have just as many clicks on your banners then when you first hit the 800,000 hits mark? I don't believe that for a second! You have a shitload of traffic, and therefor it won't hurt you as much(yet) then the little guy buy you cannot tell me that the income from your banners hasn't decreased. E-Van I'm betting on toplists and picposts Also CJ will make a come back I'm sure. I think that in the not so distant future we will have The Hun's Thumbs up doing the 1 million hits a day, The yellow pages playing second violin to Thumbs up and we'll see the birth of The Yellow Toplist Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]

07-25-2001, 01:03 PM	#6
E-van Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Mex Posts: 447	Wolfshade, I see we think quite alike in our bets, I'm not so sure about the picpost game, but I will definitively do some research on it, I'm already doing my homework over the toplist and CJ thingie hmmm, the yellow toplist? how many hits for #1 ? pfffff ------------------ Phat Sites Need Phat Hosting Get PHAT And Now You can Get even Phatter! TGP Hosting Special!

07-25-2001, 01:23 PM	#7
jimmyf OU812 Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: California Posts: 12,651	E-Van I'm betting on top lists and picposts Also CJ will make a come back I'm sure. You can take CJ and stuff 'em, now you what to talk about Fucking with the surfer. I had a page on The Hun's Thumbs Up ONCE. That was enough for me. Jesus a Christ Shit Fire And Save match's did that cost me some money, the B/W was out of fucking site. I finally just gave up and quit buying more. Then after it went off Thumbs UP it was another 2 or 3 days before my other pages came back because Verio/Best counts CPU hits. I have to admit it was 100% my fault, didn't do my home work, man was that a screw up on my part. TheHun do you think Thumbs Up will be bigger than the Yellow Pages? You do know you'll be working for Mrs TheHun then. She just might give up a BBW every morning to get the day started. So getting pages on sites like Thumbs Up, someone better get ready to put some $$$ out. Most free hosting does not allow hot linking so ???? [This message has been edited by jimmyf (edited 07-25-2001).]

07-25-2001, 01:29 PM	#9
The Hun Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,207	Thumbs-up won't be bigger I think. It's a nice page and the admin is not that much work, but I doubt it will even be bigger than the Yellow Pages...

07-25-2001, 01:29 PM	#10
Scarab Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 332	Bandwidth bill makes you smile too... ------------------ MyProfilZ!!! The Scarab TGP Fuckit - why am I in here and not working?

07-25-2001, 01:37 PM	#11
Ludedude Suck it! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Who wants to know? Posts: 4,432	The problem with dialers is not the service per se, but rather the fucked up bullshit way you guys try to force it down the surfer's throat. Blindlinking thumbs to .exe's, pop-up hells, active-x download jobs etc. The dialer itself is no doubt a good service to those that can't or don't want to use a credit card to pay for porn. The guerilla marketing of those things is what has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Maybe if the marketing was more sales-pitch than "stuff it down the throat," more people would be inclined to click on shit. I have no problem selling stuff to free porn surfers but I don't stick it in their bag and charge them for it without asking. Just my $.03 worth.

07-25-2001, 01:56 PM	#13
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	"Hell yes they do ! I have over 15 000 clicks per day =p But the question is : Do they signup ? The answer is : NO" Why would they when we feed them with 1 000's free pics and videos every day

07-25-2001, 02:17 PM	#14
Mark Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 600	Dialers are cool, if a surfer spends $75 on a call then thats fine by me - either he will learn his lesson and use a credit card next time, or he will go look for free stuff or he will still use the dialer coz it serves his needs such as anonymity, no credit card required, and hopefuly good content. As long as the dialer does not mislead the surfer then there is no problem - if the surfer really thinks he got screwed it is possible to chargeback for that call same as with a credit card charge. At the end of the day people need to be taught to pay for what they want and not to expect everything free. There is now and always will be a place for free sites on the net - as feeders for premium sites (paysites/dialers/avs etc). This industry is always changing and that is a good thing - just gotta make sure you're always on the ball! ------------------ Start Your Own Free Host - FREE! http://www.sexplanets.com

07-25-2001, 02:45 PM	#15
LiamH4P Registered User Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: toronto, ontario Posts: 54	I don't know if this is strictly a dialers vs. memberships debate, but on the topic of making money from surfers without ripping them off, while being totally up-front about what it's going to cost them... I interviewed the operator of CyberNet Digital today, a company that offers a service that lets surfers download video on a pay-per-movie kind of basis. Apparrently they can pay to just watch it the one time, or "rent" it for a week, or buy it outright. It seemed pretty cool. The site was www.cybernetdigital.com , although there wasn't a ton of information about the service on it. Granted, I think it's designed more as a distribution method for people who are creating content, but could it work as a way for a webmaster to make money? I guess if I knew the answer to that, I'd be rolling in my piles of porn-money instead of writing for a website, right? Just thought it was interesting. Liam

07-25-2001, 02:46 PM	#16
Rose Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ON,Canada Posts: 1,456	There is strange idea that people join one pay site then cancel and join another one. I'd say over 90% sign ups is from new surfers.They get on line and must try.Then they cancel and never join again. what for.I can give you URL where you can get 100's of full lenght hardcore movies for free ,new ones every day.And they get educated very quickly about availability of free porn on the net.

07-25-2001, 03:08 PM	#17
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Interesting thoughts all of em First I don't think all free sites will die, just like with everything the strong ones (like The Hun) will survive. Perhaps in modified form but nevertheless survive. The lion share however will die and return in different shapes also only where sites like The Yellow Pages will remain teh Yellow pages will those webmasters just start something completely new. I'm the perfect example of changes: I started building free sites on freehosting back in 94(before that I run BBS's) that gave me enough $$$ to start my own freehost, after that I sold it and started producing livefeeds which has been my core business till a year ago. Now it's sharing the #1 position of moneymakers with my programs and webmaster resources, freesites have become a hobby and I sold all my AVS sites and the ones I didn't sell I just closed them and used the webspace for new stuff. The only thing I still do and will keep on doing is raise traffic, for the simple reason to stay on the ball. I need to know what's up in teh bizz in order to provide the support to webmasters either on the freehosts I do support for or my resources site and offcourse help my webmasters that promote my products. Wolfshade ------------------ Wolfshade's Moneymakers Get paid per minute at Dialerclopedia, per run at Nodialercash, or be a sponsor yourself!!! It's the choice of an Adult generation! ICQ#49873955 [email protected]