US Soldiers behaving like Nazis

[EviLSuperstaR]

Alazawi says that US guards left her sitting on the chair overnight, and that the next day they took her to a room known by detainees as "the torturing place". "The US officer told us: 'If you don't confess we will torture you. So you have to confess.' My hands were handcuffed. They took off my boots and stood me in the mud with my face against the wall. I could hear women and men shouting and weeping. I recognised one of the cries as my brother Mu'taz. I wanted to see what was going on so I tried to move the cloth from my eyes. When I did, I fainted."
Like most Iraqi women, Alazawi is reluctant to talk about what she saw but says that her brother Mu'taz was brutally sexually assaulted. Then it was her turn to be interrogated. "The informant and an American officer were both in the room. The informant started talking. He said, 'You are the lady who funds your brothers to attack the Americans.' I speak some English so I replied: 'He is a liar.' The American officer then hit me on both cheeks. I fell to the ground.
Alazawi says that American guards then made her stand with her face against the wall for 12 hours, from noon until midnight. Afterwards they returned her to her cell. "The cell had no ceiling. It was raining. At midnight they threw something at my sister's feet. It was my brother Ayad. He was bleeding from his legs, knees and forehead. I told my sister: 'Find out if he's still breathing.' She said: 'No. Nothing.' I started crying. The next day they took away his body."
The US military later issued a death certificate, seen by the Guardian, citing the cause of death as "cardiac arrest of unknown etiology". The American doctor who signed the certificate did not print his name, and his signature is illegible. The body was returned to the family four months later, on April 3, after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal broke. The family took photographs of the body, also seen by the Guardian, which revealed extensive bruising to the chest and arms, and a severe head wound above the left eye.

The entire story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...308346,00.html

[Wiggles]

Happens with every side in every war.

[Manga1]

"after her release, her millionaire husband announced that he was divorcing her. "

[NoHassleSteve]

Originally posted by EviLSuperstaR
Alazawi says that US guards left her sitting on the chair overnight, and that the next day they took her to a room known by detainees as "the torturing place". "The US officer told us: 'If you don't confess we will torture you. So you have to confess.'

This makes no sense.

US soldiers want information. They could care less about confessions.

[baddog]

if it is in the Guardian you know it is bullshit

[arg]

Originally posted by Wiggles
Happens with every side in every war.

Americans torture prisoners to death? Our military has been in a lot of conflicts, and while some bad shit happens, certainly some prisoner mistreatment, I think fatal torture is unusual our post-Vietnam history...can't recall any published reports, at any rate. Grenada, Gulf War I, Panama, Somolia, Haiti, Bosnia/Kosovo/Yugoslavia. Maybe it's happened, but not on the scale that seems to have occured in Afghanistan and Iraq. While the military hasn't yet owned up to any murders, and congress still won't say what was in the unreleased photos seized in Iraq, press accounts suggest a prisoner deathcount in the hundreds, counting the prisoners in Afghanistan we baked to death in semi trailers.

Originally posted by NoHassleSteve

This makes no sense.

US soldiers want information. They could care less about confessions.

If they were well trained interrogators, maybe. They obviously weren't, as has been demonstrated in congressional testimony. And while confessions aren't useful for actionable intelligence, I'd guess they're useful for finishing open case files and improving the numbers in military reports. With military estimates at something like 2/3 of prisoners picked up by mistake, getting a few more confessions/convictions could help alleviate those sorts of stas.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by NoHassleSteve
This makes no sense.

US soldiers want information. They could care less about confessions.

But when there is no information to be obtained, well let's torture a bit, because she probably is guilty of something .... and after all, they try to kill americans and they are responsable for 9/11, also the shit economy and the high price of fuel ...

America Rules ( haven't read that in a while)...

America is on the slope to hell !

[project_naughty]

Originally posted by EviLSuperstaR
Alazawi says that US guards left her sitting on the chair overnight, and that the next day they took her to a room known by detainees as "the torturing place". "The US officer told us: 'If you don't confess we will torture you. So you have to confess.' My hands were handcuffed. They took off my boots and stood me in the mud with my face against the wall. I could hear women and men shouting and weeping. I recognised one of the cries as my brother Mu'taz. I wanted to see what was going on so I tried to move the cloth from my eyes. When I did, I fainted."
Like most Iraqi women, Alazawi is reluctant to talk about what she saw but says that her brother Mu'taz was brutally sexually assaulted. Then it was her turn to be interrogated. "The informant and an American officer were both in the room. The informant started talking. He said, 'You are the lady who funds your brothers to attack the Americans.' I speak some English so I replied: 'He is a liar.' The American officer then hit me on both cheeks. I fell to the ground.
Alazawi says that American guards then made her stand with her face against the wall for 12 hours, from noon until midnight. Afterwards they returned her to her cell. "The cell had no ceiling. It was raining. At midnight they threw something at my sister's feet. It was my brother Ayad. He was bleeding from his legs, knees and forehead. I told my sister: 'Find out if he's still breathing.' She said: 'No. Nothing.' I started crying. The next day they took away his body."
The US military later issued a death certificate, seen by the Guardian, citing the cause of death as "cardiac arrest of unknown etiology". The American doctor who signed the certificate did not print his name, and his signature is illegible. The body was returned to the family four months later, on April 3, after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal broke. The family took photographs of the body, also seen by the Guardian, which revealed extensive bruising to the chest and arms, and a severe head wound above the left eye.

The entire story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...308346,00.html

Presumably you believe this shit because you're a dumb Spaniard who would rather allow terrorists to influence the outcome of his national elections than stand up and fight them.

[alexg]

Originally posted by project_naughty
Presumably you believe this shit because you're a dumb Spaniard who would rather allow terrorists to influence the outcome of his national elections than stand up and fight them.

took the words out of my mouth

[afrocreep]

oh, are the americans gassing and cremating them in the millions? no? then shut the fuck up. comparing america to the nazis is pretty insulting to families that suffered due to the nazis. do you even know anything about what the nazis did? or do you just take pleasure in comparing america to the nazis?

[okny]

Thanx for all this great input (Which i didn't even read) Go iraq and deal with what they deal with everyday and we will see how you act.

[Basic_man]

Originally posted by Wiggles
Happens with every side in every war.

Yeah for sure !

[BradM]

Originally posted by afrocreep
oh, are the americans gassing and cremating them in the millions? no? then shut the fuck up. comparing america to the nazis is pretty insulting to families that suffered due to the nazis. do you even know anything about what the nazis did? or do you just take pleasure in comparing america to the nazis?

Word.
This thread is bullshit.

[EviLSuperstaR]

Originally posted by project_naughty
Presumably you believe this shit because you're a dumb Spaniard who would rather allow terrorists to influence the outcome of his national elections than stand up and fight them.

Correction: You are the dumb asshole that is easy fooled into a war over WMD and terrorist links that don't exist...
Follow the leader like sheep, poor guy.

[Rich]

It's hilarious to see all the brainwashed Americans brushing this off. Pathetic. I guess it's easier to live in a dream world of American exceptionalism where everyone who says a bad word about you is lying.

[Zerof8]

Unfortunately I know that if I was in a war I would probably be the most brutal person there. I wouldnt sexually assault people but I would definitely beat the hell out of them if I thought I would get information that would save me or other people. If they have that kind of information then they are guilty. Anyone I thought was suspicious would be subject to gunfire.

Rules of war are for rich politicians. Soldiers have to protect their own life.

[BradM]

Originally posted by Rich
It's hilarious to see all the brainwashed Americans brushing this off. Pathetic. I guess it's easier to live in a dream world of American exceptionalism where everyone who says a bad word about you is lying.

Hi, I am Canadian. And I still think this thread is bullshit.
Americans should NOT be compared to Nazis. Thats total bullshit.

[trouserrat]

Originally posted by project_naughty
Presumably you believe this shit because you're a dumb Spaniard who would rather allow terrorists to influence the outcome of his national elections than stand up and fight them.

Exactly my thoughts. And you can always tell the truly uneducated by those who compare the US to the Nazis. Christ, read a book; you might learn something.

[EviLSuperstaR]

Originally posted by BradM
Hi, I am Canadian. And I still think this thread is bullshit.
Americans should NOT be compared to Nazis. Thats total bullshit.

As you wish. You can start comparing this kind of behaviour to Saddam's Republican Guard then or the USSR, or China,... Or the US war crimes in Vietnam.
No wonder the resistance to the occupation is rising every day...

-- It began with a phone call. In November last year 39-year-old Huda Alazawi, a wealthy Baghdad businesswoman, received a demand from an Iraqi informant. He was working for the Americans in Adhamiya, a Sunni district of Baghdad well known for its hostility towards the US occupation. His demand was simple: Madame Huda, as her friends and family know her, had to give him $10,000. If she failed to pay up, he would write a report claiming that she and her family were working for the Iraqi resistance. He would pass it to the US military and they would arrest her.
"It was clearly blackmail," Alazawi says, speaking in the Baghdad office of her trading company. "We knew that if we gave in, there would be other demands." The informant was as good as his word. In November 2003, he wrote a report that prompted US soldiers to interrogate Alazawi's brother, Ali, and her older sister, Nahla, now 45. Wearing a balaclava, he also led several raids with US soldiers on the families' antique-filled Baghdad properties." --

[Rich]

Originally posted by BradM
Hi, I am Canadian. And I still think this thread is bullshit.
Americans should NOT be compared to Nazis. Thats total bullshit.

They shouldn't be compared? Why not? Obviously there are major differences, but there are also similarities. The Nazi's are the last super power to launch offensive wars and torture prisoners, two things which the US has now taken on as policy. Anyone who refuses to draw that comparison is, and I'm sorry, brainwashed. American or Canadian.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by BradM
Hi, I am Canadian. And I still think this thread is bullshit.
Americans should NOT be compared to Nazis. Thats total bullshit.

He didn't compare the Americans to the Nazis, as you guys see it.

He pointed out that the early nazism ( 1933-38 ) was similar to what is happening now in the states... and that it sort of started with similar events.
If the US continue on their course, then in a few years, maybe it will be true...

I understand that it is easier to say " you are with us or against us" , or " Spaniards gave in " (BTW, that is not true, the pres was on the way out ), or the french are pussies ... or that it is OK if it saves US lives...
So the end justifies the means...

You claim Saddam was doing this to HIS people, and you had to remove him for that ... So who will remove the US ???

[Wiggles]

Originally posted by arg
Americans torture prisoners to death? Our military has been in a lot of conflicts, and while some bad shit happens, certainly some prisoner mistreatment, I think fatal torture is unusual our post-Vietnam history...can't recall any published reports, at any rate. Grenada, Gulf War I, Panama, Somolia, Haiti, Bosnia/Kosovo/Yugoslavia. Maybe it's happened, but not on the scale that seems to have occured in Afghanistan and Iraq. While the military hasn't yet owned up to any murders, and congress still won't say what was in the unreleased photos seized in Iraq, press accounts suggest a prisoner deathcount in the hundreds, counting the prisoners in Afghanistan we baked to death in semi trailers.



If they were well trained interrogators, maybe. They obviously weren't, as has been demonstrated in congressional testimony. And while confessions aren't useful for actionable intelligence, I'd guess they're useful for finishing open case files and improving the numbers in military reports. With military estimates at something like 2/3 of prisoners picked up by mistake, getting a few more confessions/convictions could help alleviate those sorts of stas.

The government and the media are in bed, of course you don't hear shit, its covered up so damn quick, fuck CNN just sits there and praises everything Bush does, gee I wonder if its Republican influenced.

[trouserrat]

Originally posted by Wiggles
The government and the media are in bed, of course you don't hear shit, its covered up so damn quick, fuck CNN just sits there and praises everything Bush does, gee I wonder if its Republican influenced.

Are you an idiot? CNN and the 3 big networks have been pro-democrat for years.

Good job. I hope they kill a few more of those prisoners over there. I doubt they had them locked up in a prison just because they looked at them funny.

[trouserrat]

Originally posted by Rich
They shouldn't be compared? Why not? Obviously there are major differences, but there are also similarities. The Nazi's are the last super power to launch offensive wars and torture prisoners, two things which the US has now taken on as policy. Anyone who refuses to draw that comparison is, and I'm sorry, brainwashed. American or Canadian.

If the US was like the Nazis, there'd be no humanitarian effort or rebuilding going on in Iraq, we wouldn't have any more than one political party, Congress wouldn't exist, Ted Kennedy would be moldering away in a concentration camp somewhere, and Michael Moore would be in an unmarked grave, not making fictional movies that you idiots take as fact. Oh, and Canada would have disappeared long ago; Hitler always got those pesky adjacent countries out of the way first, then strung up dissidents like you with piano wire. Now for God's sake, learn some history that isn't just designed to fit in with your liberal rhetoric. Disagreeing with ideologies and political beliefs is one thing, but I've never seen so many know-nothings talking out of their ass than on this board.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by trouserrat
If the US was like the Nazis, there'd be no humanitarian effort or rebuilding going on in Iraq,

Wake up. There is NO rebuilding in Iraq, unless you count bomb holes as foundations ...

not even 5% of budgeted money to rebuild has been disbursed. This admin wants to re-alocate some of that money for " security '... read abit before posting.

And to say CNN is favorable to democrats, it is a stretch... Maybe they were, but now if you are not with the warrior president , you are a traitor and a terrorist.. so the choice is limited...

[Rich]

Originally posted by trouserrat
Are you an idiot? CNN and the 3 big networks have been pro-democrat for years.

lmfao

You're not very old, are you?

[Rich]

Originally posted by trouserrat
If the US was like the Nazis, there'd be no humanitarian effort or rebuilding going on in Iraq, we wouldn't have any more than one political party, Congress wouldn't exist, Ted Kennedy would be moldering away in a concentration camp somewhere, and Michael Moore would be in an unmarked grave, not making fictional movies that you idiots take as fact. Oh, and Canada would have disappeared long ago; Hitler always got those pesky adjacent countries out of the way first, then strung up dissidents like you with piano wire. Now for God's sake, learn some history that isn't just designed to fit in with your liberal rhetoric. Disagreeing with ideologies and political beliefs is one thing, but I've never seen so many know-nothings talking out of their ass than on this board.

What did I say, that they were exactly the same in every way? No moron, I didn't, I said there were major similarities. I also listed them, feel free to point out where I was wrong. There are also more, take the Patriot Act for example. It could have been written the day after the Reichstag burned down.

Also, speaking of history, you should learn some. Hitler didn't become a dictator overnight. Bush has been in power and 3 1/2 years and he's halfway there.

Great points though, you got in Ted Kennedy, Michael Moore, liberal rhetoric, and and attack on Canada all worked into one almost comprehensible post. Four stars on the right wing talking point meter.

I've got a secret for you, not many people take Moore's movie as fact, only right wing jackasses say that. Most people who like it think it raises some interesting questions and is a very emotional editorial against the war in Iraq. You have to be pretty fucking dumb to not understand that, but I guess if you're still a Bush apologist at this point you don't have very much happening upstairs or you're just not paying enough attention.

Now if you want a documentary with facts about the real reasons we went to war in Iraq, then watch Hijacking Catastrophe. It does a great job explaining the neo-con influence, something F/911 totally left out to my amazement. Most people, including yourself, probably have no idea of the true history and philosophy of the neo-cons. This movie is a must watch and you can download it for free right here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle6895.htm

Watch this in full and come back here and defend the Bush administration. Point out one questionable fact from this movie made by the Media Education Foundation. I dare you.

It also does a great job showing the media's role in selling you guys this war.

If you vote without watching this movie you're doing yourself and your country a disservice. Voting for something you don't understand is never good.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by trouserrat
If the US was like the Nazis, there'd be no humanitarian effort or rebuilding going on in Iraq, we wouldn't have any more than one political party, Congress wouldn't exist, Ted Kennedy would be moldering away in a concentration camp somewhere, and Michael Moore would be in an unmarked grave, not making fictional movies that you idiots take as fact. Oh, and Canada would have disappeared long ago; Hitler always got those pesky adjacent countries out of the way first, then strung up dissidents like you with piano wire. Now for God's sake, learn some history that isn't just designed to fit in with your liberal rhetoric. Disagreeing with ideologies and political beliefs is one thing, but I've never seen so many know-nothings talking out of their ass than on this board.

Great post. it's SO silly to me that people make these crazy comparisons. I don't think that torture is right, but when these kind of comparisons are made, it makes the left-wing look ignorant, and weakens the argument.

You're not very old, are you?

Well, I'm 41. I worked for an ENG agency in los angeles, and we sold news video feeds to all the networks....and I can tell you that the OVERWHELMING majority of the entire staff of those newsrooms, from anchors to editors to producers to management, were liberal. (I had to keep my politics VERY quiet in order to keep my job) There have been plenty of studies showing that something like 87% of people in the news business consider themselves liberal, INCLUDING the managment/owners.

[Rich]

I don't give a fuck how jounalists vote. Of course they don't vote for the Republicans, they're informed people. It's the coporations who control the stations who decide what airs and what doesn't.

The fact is, all the major networks have completely shit the bed since Bush came into office. They've protected him and sold the people a war based on nonsense, when they knew what the truth was. CBC, ABC, NBC, and CNN especially play ball with the right wing every chance they get, if you can't see that then I'm sorry.

Notice the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were one of the smallest 527 group out there, but every other one is against Bush, so you hear about them on the mainstream media every night. It's sad that Americans can't see through this, you're being shown a book cover that shows Kerry and says "unfit for command" every fucking day, and you think it's news? CNN is the worst from what I've seen. Two minutes worth of research proved these guys complete liars connected to Karl Rove on the first fucking day, but CNN makes a story out of nothing and shows the book over and over. Yeah there's no bias there.

Watch the movie I linked to above. If you're saying that you're 40 years old and you think that CNN is against George Bush you have to be fucking kidding me. You're either crazy or so misinformed it's scary that you vote.

[sperbonzo]

Originally posted by Rich
I don't give a fuck how jounalists vote. Of course they don't vote for the Republicans, they're informed people. It's the coporations who control the stations who decide what airs and what doesn't.

The fact is, all the major networks have completely shit the bed since Bush came into office. They've protected him and sold the people a war based on nonsense, when they knew what the truth was. CBC, ABC, NBC, and CNN especially play ball with the right wing every chance they get, if you can't see that then I'm sorry.

Notice the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were one of the smallest 527 group out there, but every other one is against Bush, so you hear about them on the mainstream media every night. It's sad that Americans can't see through this, you're being shown a book cover that shows Kerry and says "unfit for command" every fucking day, and you think it's news? CNN is the worst from what I've seen. Two minutes worth of research proved these guys complete liars connected to Karl Rove on the first fucking day, but CNN makes a story out of nothing and shows the book over and over. Yeah there's no bias there.

Watch the movie I linked to above. If you're saying that you're 40 years old and you think that CNN is against George Bush you have to be fucking kidding me. You're either crazy or so misinformed it's scary that you vote.

I'm not talking about how jurnoulists vote, I'm talking about the editing decisions that were made at air time, and those decisions were made by the producers, not a corporate sponsor.

As for bias, look at the fact that during the swift boat ruckus, the veterns invovled were never once interviewed by any of the networks, but meanwhile when Kitty Kelly writes one of her silly books that bashes the bush family, she is on the "Today show" three days in a row.

There are INUMERABLE examples of the liberal bias in media, but the fact is that most people only notices any bias that disagrees with them. As you mature, you will notice that it goes both ways.

I used to be as blindly pig-headed as you are, but after spending the first few years of the Clinton Administration utterly aghast that people could not see past all the bull he was peddling, and the fact that the media was not calling him on his total con game, I calmed down, and realized that just because someone has a different opnion does not make them crazy or stupid.

We can disagree, and both of us can still be intelligent, informed people.

[theking]

Originally posted by EviLSuperstaR
Alazawi says that US guards left her sitting on the chair overnight, and that the next day they took her to a room known by detainees as "the torturing place". "The US officer told us: 'If you don't confess we will torture you. So you have to confess.' My hands were handcuffed. They took off my boots and stood me in the mud with my face against the wall. I could hear women and men shouting and weeping. I recognised one of the cries as my brother Mu'taz. I wanted to see what was going on so I tried to move the cloth from my eyes. When I did, I fainted."
Like most Iraqi women, Alazawi is reluctant to talk about what she saw but says that her brother Mu'taz was brutally sexually assaulted. Then it was her turn to be interrogated. "The informant and an American officer were both in the room. The informant started talking. He said, 'You are the lady who funds your brothers to attack the Americans.' I speak some English so I replied: 'He is a liar.' The American officer then hit me on both cheeks. I fell to the ground.
Alazawi says that American guards then made her stand with her face against the wall for 12 hours, from noon until midnight. Afterwards they returned her to her cell. "The cell had no ceiling. It was raining. At midnight they threw something at my sister's feet. It was my brother Ayad. He was bleeding from his legs, knees and forehead. I told my sister: 'Find out if he's still breathing.' She said: 'No. Nothing.' I started crying. The next day they took away his body."
The US military later issued a death certificate, seen by the Guardian, citing the cause of death as "cardiac arrest of unknown etiology". The American doctor who signed the certificate did not print his name, and his signature is illegible. The body was returned to the family four months later, on April 3, after the Abu Ghraib torture scandal broke. The family took photographs of the body, also seen by the Guardian, which revealed extensive bruising to the chest and arms, and a severe head wound above the left eye.

The entire story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...308346,00.html

There may or may not be a single word of truth in this article. The Guardian and Al-Jazeera are not reliable sources...in my opinion...and report the "news" in similar fashion.

[theking]

Originally posted by sperbonzo
I'm not talking about how jurnoulists vote, I'm talking about the editing decisions that were made at air time, and those decisions were made by the producers, not a corporate sponsor.

As for bias, look at the fact that during the swift boat ruckus, the veterns invovled were never once interviewed by any of the networks, but meanwhile when Kitty Kelly writes one of her silly books that bashes the bush family, she is on the "Today show" three days in a row.

There are INUMERABLE examples of the liberal bias in media, but the fact is that most people only notices any bias that disagrees with them. As you mature, you will notice that it goes both ways.

I used to be as blindly pig-headed as you are, but after spending the first few years of the Clinton Administration utterly aghast that people could not see past all the bull he was peddling, and the fact that the media was not calling him on his total con game, I calmed down, and realized that just because someone has a different opnion does not make them crazy or stupid.

We can disagree, and both of us can still be intelligent, informed people.

Good post and on base. Richy boy...as usual...is off base.

[Rich]

You always bring a lot to the conversation Pathfinder.

Now just log in as bustit or whatever to laugh at your brilliant, useful posts and you'll be golden.

[directfiesta]

Originally posted by theking
There may or may not be a single word of truth in this article. The Guardian and Al-Jazeera are not reliable sources...in my opinion...and report the "news" in similar fashion.

not reliable = I don't share their views
theKing = pigshit

[Manga1]

Originally posted by trouserrat
If the US was like the Nazis, there'd be no humanitarian effort or rebuilding going on in Iraq

Funniest thing I've heard all day! Some of you kids really crack me up.

[theking]

Originally posted by directfiesta


not reliable = I don't share there views
theKing = pigshit

Using your logic...means that the only "reliable" sources you have are those that share your view.

FYI...I take what any single media source has to say with a hugh grain of salt. I view and read multiple sources and draw my own conclusions.

You are just another Richy boy...Webby...and those like them. An America hating foreign piece of trash whose is blinded with hatred to the point that you do not have any credibility.

[Rochard]

Originally posted by Rich
They shouldn't be compared? Why not? Obviously there are major differences, but there are also similarities. The Nazi's are the last super power to launch offensive wars and torture prisoners, two things which the US has now taken on as policy. Anyone who refuses to draw that comparison is, and I'm sorry, brainwashed. American or Canadian.

Your right - there are many similarities between the US and Nazi Germany. I mean all the US in interested in is more "living space" for Americans who are clearly the "superior race".

Nazi Germany slaughtered millions of people. I don't mean in the process of war. I mean they put them into trains and sent them to their deaths. They called it the final solution. Odd, but I don't remember the US killing millions of people. Currently the US has nearly two hundred thousand members of it's armed forces in Iraq; You are gonna have a few rotten apples.

The abuse that took place was a crime, and those found guilty are in the process of being punished. It is clearly not US policy to do such things.

And this bullshit story..... if it had one ounce of truth in it the story would have been picked up by another news agency.

[wdsguy]

its a freakin war, what do u expect

[power182]

Originally posted by Rich
I don't give a fuck how jounalists vote. Of course they don't vote for the Republicans, they're informed people. It's the coporations who control the stations who decide what airs and what doesn't.

The fact is, all the major networks have completely shit the bed since Bush came into office. They've protected him and sold the people a war based on nonsense, when they knew what the truth was. CBC, ABC, NBC, and CNN especially play ball with the right wing every chance they get, if you can't see that then I'm sorry.

Notice the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were one of the smallest 527 group out there, but every other one is against Bush, so you hear about them on the mainstream media every night. It's sad that Americans can't see through this, you're being shown a book cover that shows Kerry and says "unfit for command" every fucking day, and you think it's news? CNN is the worst from what I've seen. Two minutes worth of research proved these guys complete liars connected to Karl Rove on the first fucking day, but CNN makes a story out of nothing and shows the book over and over. Yeah there's no bias there.

Watch the movie I linked to above. If you're saying that you're 40 years old and you think that CNN is against George Bush you have to be fucking kidding me. You're either crazy or so misinformed it's scary that you vote.

CBS and Dan Rather both think Bush is great and want to see him re-elected...... your comments are way off based. That just shows your hate for America and everything American has blinded you. The only republican new agency is Fox, period.

Your moral/political righteousness has also made you believe you are always right and all your information is correct. You are blind and you don?t even know it, the most dangerous kind. Everybody is bias and driven by their own agenda. There are three sides to every story and only God knows the truth ? never forget that.

[trouserrat]

Rich, the thing that you, and people like you, don't understand is this: if you really, really, don't want Bush to be re-elected (or just "elected" to pander to the whole Gore cry-baby syndrome), you should just keep your mouth shut. Here's why: Although the polls show that Bush is rapidly gaining a lead on Kerry, let's assume they are still in a dead heat. That means nearly half the people are pro-Bush and are definitely going to vote for him, and roughly half the people are anti-Bush (notice I didn't say "pro-Kerry, because people like that barely exist) and will never vote for Bush in a million years. So, it looks like the so-called "undecideds" are going to play a big part in deciding this election. Here's a newsflash: undecided people don't respond to extreme shock tactics and the bullshit you and a lot of others sling around here. If these people really related to one extreme or one end of the spectrum, they'd already be firmly entrenched in their position, not undecided. So all of the name-calling, all of the comparisons to Adolf Hitler (which are laughable at best; don't even try to match historical knowledge of Hitler or the Nazis with me), all of the juvenille tactics of making people feel like fools if they defend Bush to any extent (like anyone would care what a bunch of fat computer dorks on GFY think anyhow) really only serve to drive those all-important undecided people over to the Bush camp. It's those types of tactics that are causing the Democratic party to implode right now. Instead of challenging Bush on issues, it's all this hate, scare tactics, and propaganda. Obviously, none of us like John A. But I only see that aspect of Bush's presidency (i.e. being bad for porn) addressed a small amount of the time on here. You could also argue you think gays should be allowed to be married legally. Or disagree intelligently on a multitude of other issues. But you rarely see that, do you? It's just Bush sux, Bush is a Nazi, silly sheep, are you watching FOX News again?[insert idiotic laughing heads here, as if that makes the point anymore valid.] Here on GFY, you're pretty much preaching to the choir because everyone acts and thinks like this with a few exceptions. Out in the actual real world, you look like a bomb-throwing idiot. Since I believe you're in Canada, you really have no effect on anything we do as far as elections go anyway, but I really just think it's hilarious that when Bush is re-elected over Kerry, it will be because of people like you who thought you could goad someone into electing a man the leader of the free world based on peer-pressure, scare/shock tactics, straight-up misinformation, and the fact that he's just simply NOT the other guy (a true disservice to the presidency if it were to happen). So keep on slinging the shit and pumping out the laughing heads. You're doing a good job; Bush is in the lead. Go Rich, Rah Rah! Now tell me I only believe what FOX news or Rush tells me and I'm some poor deluded sheep, or whatever other snappy comeback you mental giants can come up with. I, like sperbonzo, tired a long time ago of debating politics on here with puerile fools, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
Oh and by the way, since you asked, I'm 30 and old enough to have better things to do than post propaganda on a messageboard all day (you see, post count on GFY typically has an inverse ratio to intelligence).

[project_naughty]

Originally posted by EviLSuperstaR
Correction: You are the dumb asshole that is easy fooled into a war over WMD and terrorist links that don't exist...
Follow the leader like sheep, poor guy.

1. Saddam had WMD. He used them against Iranians and Kurds. He even boasted about having them. The ones which haven't yet been found are currently being fitted to Katyusha rockets in Southern Lebanon. Buried WMD from WW2 are still being dug up in China, 60 years after the war ended.

2. Saddam financed terrorism around the world, including but not limited to funding the stupidfada in Israel, attempting to assassinate an ex-US president, allowing Ansar al_Islam (al_Qaeda) to set up camps in Kurdistan to train terrorists, providing safe haven to known terrorists and funding domestic US terror groups.

You're the kind of person who would pass by whilst someone was being attacked, who would ignore a woman's cries for help.

Go suck the dicks of your terrorist masters, fuckwitt.

[trouserrat]

Originally posted by project_naughty
1. Saddam had WMD. He used them against Iranians and Kurds. He even boasted about having them. The ones which haven't yet been found are currently being fitted to Katyusha rockets in Southern Lebanon. Buried WMD from WW2 are still being dug up in China, 60 years after the war ended.

2. Saddam financed terrorism around the world, including but not limited to funding the stupidfada in Israel, attempting to assassinate an ex-US president, allowing Ansar al_Islam (al_Qaeda) to set up camps in Kurdistan to train terrorists, providing safe haven to known terrorists and funding domestic US terror groups.

Shhhh. You're confusing him with facts.

[theking]

Originally posted by trouserrat
Rich, the thing that you, and people like you, don't understand is this: if you really, really, don't want Bush to be re-elected (or just "elected" to pander to the whole Gore cry-baby syndrome), you should just keep your mouth shut. Here's why: Although the polls show that Bush is rapidly gaining a lead on Kerry, let's assume they are still in a dead heat. That means nearly half the people are pro-Bush and are definitely going to vote for him, and roughly half the people are anti-Bush (notice I didn't say "pro-Kerry, because people like that barely exist) and will never vote for Bush in a million years. So, it looks like the so-called "undecideds" are going to play a big part in deciding this election. Here's a newsflash: undecided people don't respond to extreme shock tactics and the bullshit you and a lot of others sling around here. If these people really related to one extreme or one end of the spectrum, they'd already be firmly entrenched in their position, not undecided. So all of the name-calling, all of the comparisons to Adolf Hitler (which are laughable at best; don't even try to match historical knowledge of Hitler or the Nazis with me), all of the juvenille tactics of making people feel like fools if they defend Bush to any extent (like anyone would care what a bunch of fat computer dorks on GFY think anyhow) really only serve to drive those all-important undecided people over to the Bush camp. It's those types of tactics that are causing the Democratic party to implode right now. Instead of challenging Bush on issues, it's all this hate, scare tactics, and propaganda. Obviously, none of us like John A. But I only see that aspect of Bush's presidency (i.e. being bad for porn) addressed a small amount of the time on here. You could also argue you think gays should be allowed to be married legally. Or disagree intelligently on a multitude of other issues. But you rarely see that, do you? It's just Bush sux, Bush is a Nazi, silly sheep, are you watching FOX News again?[insert idiotic laughing heads here, as if that makes the point anymore valid.] Here on GFY, you're pretty much preaching to the choir because everyone acts and thinks like this with a few exceptions. Out in the actual real world, you look like a bomb-throwing idiot. Since I believe you're in Canada, you really have no effect on anything we do as far as elections go anyway, but I really just think it's hilarious that when Bush is re-elected over Kerry, it will be because of people like you who thought you could goad someone into electing a man the leader of the free world based on peer-pressure, scare/shock tactics, straight-up misinformation, and the fact that he's just simply NOT the other guy (a true disservice to the presidency if it were to happen). So keep on slinging the shit and pumping out the laughing heads. You're doing a good job; Bush is in the lead. Go Rich, Rah Rah! Now tell me I only believe what FOX news or Rush tells me and I'm some poor deluded sheep, or whatever other snappy comeback you mental giants can come up with. I, like sperbonzo, tired a long time ago of debating politics on here with puerile fools, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
Oh and by the way, since you asked, I'm 30 and old enough to have better things to do than post propaganda on a messageboard all day (you see, post count on GFY typically has an inverse ratio to intelligence).

to your post.

[s9ann0]

Originally posted by baddog
if it is in the Guardian you know it is bullshit

The Guardian is excellent well respected paper here in england, I don't think you know what are you talking about.

[Joe Citizen]

Originally posted by spanno
The Guardian is excellent well respected paper here in england, I don't think you know what are you talking about.

badpussy doesn't understand words of more than two syllables.

[Rich]

Originally posted by trouserrat
Rich, the thing that you, and people like you, don't understand is this: if you really, really, don't want Bush to be re-elected (or just "elected" to pander to the whole Gore cry-baby syndrome), you should just keep your mouth shut. Here's why: Although the polls show that Bush is rapidly gaining a lead on Kerry, let's assume they are still in a dead heat. That means nearly half the people are pro-Bush and are definitely going to vote for him, and roughly half the people are anti-Bush (notice I didn't say "pro-Kerry, because people like that barely exist) and will never vote for Bush in a million years. So, it looks like the so-called "undecideds" are going to play a big part in deciding this election. Here's a newsflash: undecided people don't respond to extreme shock tactics and the bullshit you and a lot of others sling around here. If these people really related to one extreme or one end of the spectrum, they'd already be firmly entrenched in their position, not undecided. So all of the name-calling, all of the comparisons to Adolf Hitler (which are laughable at best; don't even try to match historical knowledge of Hitler or the Nazis with me), all of the juvenille tactics of making people feel like fools if they defend Bush to any extent (like anyone would care what a bunch of fat computer dorks on GFY think anyhow) really only serve to drive those all-important undecided people over to the Bush camp. It's those types of tactics that are causing the Democratic party to implode right now. Instead of challenging Bush on issues, it's all this hate, scare tactics, and propaganda. Obviously, none of us like John A. But I only see that aspect of Bush's presidency (i.e. being bad for porn) addressed a small amount of the time on here. You could also argue you think gays should be allowed to be married legally. Or disagree intelligently on a multitude of other issues. But you rarely see that, do you? It's just Bush sux, Bush is a Nazi, silly sheep, are you watching FOX News again?[insert idiotic laughing heads here, as if that makes the point anymore valid.] Here on GFY, you're pretty much preaching to the choir because everyone acts and thinks like this with a few exceptions. Out in the actual real world, you look like a bomb-throwing idiot. Since I believe you're in Canada, you really have no effect on anything we do as far as elections go anyway, but I really just think it's hilarious that when Bush is re-elected over Kerry, it will be because of people like you who thought you could goad someone into electing a man the leader of the free world based on peer-pressure, scare/shock tactics, straight-up misinformation, and the fact that he's just simply NOT the other guy (a true disservice to the presidency if it were to happen). So keep on slinging the shit and pumping out the laughing heads. You're doing a good job; Bush is in the lead. Go Rich, Rah Rah! Now tell me I only believe what FOX news or Rush tells me and I'm some poor deluded sheep, or whatever other snappy comeback you mental giants can come up with. I, like sperbonzo, tired a long time ago of debating politics on here with puerile fools, but sometimes I just can't help myself.
Oh and by the way, since you asked, I'm 30 and old enough to have better things to do than post propaganda on a messageboard all day (you see, post count on GFY typically has an inverse ratio to intelligence).

Not that I could read this one paragraph rant without getting a headache, but I gather you're saying it's my fault Kerry is going to loose. Okay. Sorry guys.

Here's the thing, I'm not trying to "goad" anyone into electing anyone. It is the Americans who are going to suffer most if Bush wins again, not me. I'm not getting drafted, having familly members lose jobs and health insurance, having cops and firemen taken off the streets, having more terrorists than ever wanting to kill me, etc etc etc. That's your problem. Go ahead and elect Bush for all I care, it's your country he's fucking up. Mostly what I do is laugh at morons who support Bush despite having no clue of reality outside of cable TV.

[Rich]

Originally posted by spanno
The Guardian is excellent well respected paper here in england, I don't think you know what are you talking about.

Don't worry, Baddog is on a role of making some of the dumbest comments in the history of GFY, this is nothing.

[Rich]

Originally posted by RocHard
Your right - there are many similarities between the US and Nazi Germany. I mean all the US in interested in is more "living space" for Americans who are clearly the "superior race".

Nazi Germany slaughtered millions of people. I don't mean in the process of war. I mean they put them into trains and sent them to their deaths. They called it the final solution. Odd, but I don't remember the US killing millions of people. Currently the US has nearly two hundred thousand members of it's armed forces in Iraq; You are gonna have a few rotten apples.

The abuse that took place was a crime, and those found guilty are in the process of being punished. It is clearly not US policy to do such things.

And this bullshit story..... if it had one ounce of truth in it the story would have been picked up by another news agency.

Once again, read my post. I'm glad you can point out the "major differences" I was talking about, you must be a scholar.

Now explain to me how the similarities we've pointed out are in any way inaccurate or exaggerated.

The fact that you're suggesting that it isn't US policy to torture prisoners indicates the fact that you are either in denial or completely in the dark.

[crowkid]

Originally posted by Rich
Once again, read my post. I'm glad you can point out the "major differences" I was talking about, you must be a scholar.

Now explain to me how the similarities we've pointed out are in any way inaccurate or exaggerated.

The fact that you're suggesting that it isn't US policy to torture prisoners indicates the fact that you are either in denial or completely in the dark.

Torture a Muslim, Save a Chicken