The Existence of God: The Argument from Desire

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  • boobmaster
    So Fucking Banned
    • Jul 2003
    • 6185
    #1

    The Existence of God: The Argument from Desire

    Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

    C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
    Tags: None
    • GiantGnome
      Confirmed User
      • Jan 2004
      • 4344
      #2
      please stop posting this. the only thing you are doing is making the non believers reject it even more. if you want to save someone please go elsewhere.
      NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-Darth Vader

        Comment

        • Thrawn$
          Confirmed User
          • Apr 2002
          • 4596
          #3
          amen
          Tracking 202 | Start Tracking PPC Campaigns Like A Pro

            Comment

            • eroswebmaster
              March 1st, 2003
              • Jul 2001
              • 20295
              #4
              Off Topic somewhat.

              CS Lewis The Chronicles of Narnia is my favorite set of books ever.

              I read that set at least twice, some books 3 times.
              For rent - ICQ 127-027-910
              Click here for more details

                Comment

                • MrIzzz
                  If u touch it, I will cum
                  • Sep 2003
                  • 22923
                  #5
                  i want to be baptized


                  WHO WANTS TO PLAY GRAB-ASS?

                    Comment

                    • boobmaster
                      So Fucking Banned
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 6185
                      #6
                      Originally posted by GiantGnome
                      please stop posting this. the only thing you are doing is making the non believers reject it even more. if you want to save someone please go elsewhere.
                      This has NOTHING to do with Christianity. The question of the existence of God is independent of the question of which God is the true God?

                      And I am not the ONLY person who posts threads like this. There are at least 5 GOD threads posted every day on GFY.

                        Comment

                        • nofx
                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                          • Nov 2002
                          • 16826
                          #7
                          is that the only book you read? have many times have you read it?

                          Often times I wonder why
                          There's love and hate, theres live or die.
                          When sickness comes I must decide:
                          When feelings go, theres suicide.

                            Comment

                            • GiantGnome
                              Confirmed User
                              • Jan 2004
                              • 4344
                              #8
                              Originally posted by boobmaster
                              This has NOTHING to do with Christianity. The question of the existence of God is independent of the question of which God is the true God?

                              And I am not the ONLY person who posts threads like this. There are at least 5 GOD threads posted every day on GFY.
                              My mistake, i apologize. im just use to you posting stuff like that
                              NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-Darth Vader

                                Comment

                                • boobmaster
                                  So Fucking Banned
                                  • Jul 2003
                                  • 6185
                                  #9
                                  Originally posted by nofx
                                  is that the only book you read? have many times have you read it?


                                  Mere Christianity? I have read almost everything ever written by C.S. Lewis.

                                  I have read a FEW more books than that.

                                    Comment

                                    • nofx
                                      Too lazy to set a custom title
                                      • Nov 2002
                                      • 16826
                                      #10
                                      Originally posted by boobmaster


                                      Mere Christianity? I have read almost everything ever written by C.S. Lewis.

                                      I have read a FEW more books than that.
                                      dude read some Emerson and Thoreau and get back to me on your view of religion.

                                      Often times I wonder why
                                      There's love and hate, theres live or die.
                                      When sickness comes I must decide:
                                      When feelings go, theres suicide.

                                        Comment

                                        • pornguy
                                          Too lazy to set a custom title
                                          • Mar 2003
                                          • 62912
                                          #11
                                          I just want to fuck some strange women and then go home to my wife.

                                          Does that make me a sinner??


                                          God I hope so.
                                          PornGuy skype me pornguy_epic

                                          AmateurDough The Hottes Shemales online!
                                          TChicks.com | Angeles Cid | Mariana Cordoba | MAILERS WELCOME!

                                            Comment

                                            • Serge Litehead
                                              Confirmed User
                                              • Dec 2002
                                              • 5190
                                              #12
                                              what God?

                                                Comment

                                                • boobmaster
                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                  • 6185
                                                  #13
                                                  Originally posted by nofx
                                                  dude read some Emerson and Thoreau and get back to me on your view of religion.
                                                  I have. Both are great writers but I don't share their pantheistic worldviews.

                                                    Comment

                                                    • boobmaster
                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                      • 6185
                                                      #14
                                                      Originally posted by pornguy
                                                      I just want to fuck some strange women and then go home to my wife.

                                                      Does that make me a sinner??


                                                      God I hope so.
                                                      Well, it sure as hell doesn't make you a very good husband.

                                                        Comment

                                                        • boobmaster
                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                          • 6185
                                                          #15
                                                          Originally posted by holograph
                                                          what God?
                                                          What holograph?

                                                            Comment

                                                            • Serge Litehead
                                                              Confirmed User
                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                              • 5190
                                                              #16
                                                              before you go to proof of god existance, can you prove that you exist?

                                                                Comment

                                                                • korzon
                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                  • Jan 2004
                                                                  • 1524
                                                                  #17

                                                                    Comment

                                                                    • boobmaster
                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                      • 6185
                                                                      #18
                                                                      Originally posted by holograph
                                                                      before you go to proof of god existance, can you prove that you exist?
                                                                      You sound like a philosopher.

                                                                        Comment

                                                                        • Serge Litehead
                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                                          • 5190
                                                                          #19
                                                                          Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                          What holograph?
                                                                          google me

                                                                          but why you jump from god to me?

                                                                            Comment

                                                                            • boobmaster
                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                                              • 6185
                                                                              #20
                                                                              Originally posted by korzon
                                                                              Very mature response, asshole. Can't critique the argument so you just drop by to say "fuck off." Well,

                                                                                Comment

                                                                                • boobmaster
                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                  • 6185
                                                                                  #21
                                                                                  Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                  google me

                                                                                  I will. What's your REAL name?

                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                    • Serge Litehead
                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                      • 5190
                                                                                      #22
                                                                                      God is concept, nothing more. you trying to find some proof of creators existance, you expect some good by god's image, all you see in life is killing for survival.
                                                                                      if there is god, it doesnt hate nor love, god is not good nor bad
                                                                                      god doesn't respont when you turn to him, how much more proof you need?

                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                        • Serge Litehead
                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                          • Dec 2002
                                                                                          • 5190
                                                                                          #23
                                                                                          Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                          I will. What's your REAL name?
                                                                                          i might be the one you so eager to find proof of

                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                            • Serge Litehead
                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                                                              • 5190
                                                                                              #24
                                                                                              Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                              I will. What's your REAL name?
                                                                                              why the fuck would i want to give my real name to some wierd boobmaster that doesn't know his own creator?

                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                • boobmaster
                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                                  • 6185
                                                                                                  #25
                                                                                                  Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                                  why the fuck would i want to give my real name to some wierd boobmaster that doesn't know his own creator?
                                                                                                  You asked me to google you, DUMBASS

                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                    • boobmaster
                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                                      • 6185
                                                                                                      #26
                                                                                                      Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                                      God is concept, nothing more. you trying to find some proof of creators existance, you expect some good by god's image, all you see in life is killing for survival.
                                                                                                      if there is god, it doesnt hate nor love, god is not good nor bad
                                                                                                      god doesn't respont when you turn to him, how much more proof you need?
                                                                                                      (1) You are using the most worn out argument against the existence of God that there is -- the one based on the existence of EVIL.

                                                                                                      (2) Your Location field says you live in NJ.

                                                                                                      (3) Your skill with the English language tells me you are lying.

                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                        • boobmaster
                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                                          • 6185
                                                                                                          #27
                                                                                                          Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                                          i might be the one you so eager to find proof of
                                                                                                          God does not speak BROKEN ENGLISH.

                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                            • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                                                                              • 5190
                                                                                                              #28
                                                                                                              dude hear yourself: i desire god therefor god exists

                                                                                                              with or without desires it might exist or might not, its not because of the desire. certainly it wont prove anything. of course in our little minds we cannot think of anything that is not in existance (maybe thats way you can't understand god), but just because you desire something doesnt mean it exists or will come true. your desire may come because of opposite expirience and for instance once you know evil you might want to desire good, but if the world you live in is based on evil no matter how much you desire good, it may not come true, you might get killed also.

                                                                                                              the very first example you brought in in this threat isn't a good in corelation to god topic. once again i repeat god may or may not exists with or without your desires.

                                                                                                              you have to pardon me for me english, but i do live in NJ and i'm sorry you accusing me of lying jumping to conclusions based on me english

                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                  • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                  • 5190
                                                                                                                  #29
                                                                                                                  Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                  God does not speak BROKEN ENGLISH.
                                                                                                                  do you have any valid samples of god's speach or writing?

                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                    • boobmaster
                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                      • 6185
                                                                                                                      #30
                                                                                                                      Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                                                      dude hear yourself: i desire god therefor god exists

                                                                                                                      with or without desires it might exist or might not, its not because of the desire. certainly it wont prove anything. of course in our little minds we cannot think of anything that is not in existance (maybe thats way you can't understand god), but just because you desire something doesnt mean it exists or will come true. your desire may come because of opposite expirience and for instance once you know evil you might want to desire good, but if the world you live in is based on evil no matter how much you desire good, it may not come true, you might get killed also.

                                                                                                                      the very first example you brought in in this threat isn't a good in corelation to god topic. once again i repeat god may or may not exists with or without your desires.

                                                                                                                      you have to pardon me for me english, but i do live in NJ and i'm sorry you accusing me of lying jumping to conclusions based on me english
                                                                                                                      You miss the whole point of the argument.

                                                                                                                      (1) Every natural, innate desire in us corresponds to some real object that can satisfy that desire.

                                                                                                                      (2) But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.

                                                                                                                      (3) Therefore there must exist something more than time, earth and creatures, which can satisfy this desire.

                                                                                                                      (4) This something is what people call "God" and "life with God forever."

                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                        • Halo18
                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                          • Jul 2004
                                                                                                                          • 312
                                                                                                                          #31
                                                                                                                          Originally posted by holograph
                                                                                                                          do you have any valid samples of god's speach or writing?
                                                                                                                          Of course he does, the bible is the word of god... where've you been?

                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                            • boobmaster
                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                              • 6185
                                                                                                                              #32
                                                                                                                              Originally posted by Halo18
                                                                                                                              Of course he does, the bible is the word of god... where've you been?
                                                                                                                              FUCK OFF, NEWB!!

                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                • TheJimmy
                                                                                                                                  ICQ- five seven 0 2 5 5 0
                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2001
                                                                                                                                  • 10747
                                                                                                                                  #33
                                                                                                                                  c.s. lewis and 'mere christianity' is a pretty interesting book...


                                                                                                                                  but when it comes to arguments for the existence of god, I think the 'pocket aquinas' is a much more suitable source of arguments...






                                                                                                                                  the design (thus a designer) argument is pretty cool...
                                                                                                                                  Investor with 5m - 15m USD to invest. Do you have a site or network of sites earning 50k - 200k a month income? Email your contact and preliminary data to: domain.cashventures (at) gmail.com....Please...no tire kickers...serious offers and inquiries only.

                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                    • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                      • 5190
                                                                                                                                      #34
                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Halo18
                                                                                                                                      Of course he does, the bible is the word of god... where've you been?
                                                                                                                                      those are stories of some witneses around jesus, you may believe god wrote that book or has spoken it.

                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                        • Halo18
                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2004
                                                                                                                                          • 312
                                                                                                                                          #35
                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                                          FUCK OFF, NEWB!!

                                                                                                                                          You talked shit about someone using an "old argument" earlier in this thread, then you called someone else immature for responding with and yet you come back with "fuck off newb" in caps and a type size a blind grandmother could see? Classy guy. Chill the fuck out man, I know you don't take the bible as the literal word of god, I'm just bustin ass. You're at GFY...keep that in mind at all times.

                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                            • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                              • 5190
                                                                                                                                              #36
                                                                                                                                              boobmaster, i see where you coming from

                                                                                                                                              but from my perspective there is a flow in this thinking:
                                                                                                                                              (2) But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.

                                                                                                                                              (3) Therefore there must exist something more than time, earth and creatures, which can satisfy this desire.
                                                                                                                                              do you believe this desire has been ever sitisfied? i can agree that such desire exists. but i hardly but hardly think its been satified.

                                                                                                                                              if there is such creature above earth and all living things, i think it doesn't care in terms of good and evil, it doesn't have feelings/desires like humans do and sertainly if we as human race are somebodie's 'kids' we ought to be fittest and strongest and not like crying babies that we can't go through some life periods. nobody will come and clean mess after us and nobody will come and help there is no reason. if you consider yourself being god made you have to be the best.

                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                • CamChicks
                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                  • Sep 2003
                                                                                                                                                  • 1552
                                                                                                                                                  #37
                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                  Creatures are not born with desires unless satisfaction for these desires exists. A baby feels hunger; well, there is such a thing as food. A duckling wants to swim; well, there is such a thing as water. Men feel sexual desire; well, there is such a thing as sex. If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.

                                                                                                                                                  C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
                                                                                                                                                  If man goes without food, man dies.
                                                                                                                                                  If mankind goes without sex, mankind dies.
                                                                                                                                                  If mankind goes without god, god dies.

                                                                                                                                                  camchicks.com

                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                    • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                                                                      Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                      • 5190
                                                                                                                                                      #38
                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                                                                                                                      If man goes without food, man dies.
                                                                                                                                                      If mankind goes without sex, mankind dies.
                                                                                                                                                      If mankind goes without god, god dies.
                                                                                                                                                      lol can't argue with that.

                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                        • boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                          So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                          • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                          • 6185
                                                                                                                                                          #39
                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by CamChicks
                                                                                                                                                          If man goes without food, man dies.
                                                                                                                                                          If mankind goes without sex, mankind dies.
                                                                                                                                                          If mankind goes without god, god dies.
                                                                                                                                                          In a proof the conclusion must logically follow from the premises. How does (3) follow from (1) and (2)? Or are you just trying to be a smartass?

                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                            • boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                              • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                              • 6185
                                                                                                                                                              #40
                                                                                                                                                              If God himself came down out of the clouds with 100,000 of his angels for the entire world to see, most of you STILL wouldn't believe in him.

                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                • Serge Litehead
                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                  • Dec 2002
                                                                                                                                                                  • 5190
                                                                                                                                                                  #41
                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                                  If God himself came down out of the clouds with 100,000 of his angels for the entire world to see, most of you STILL wouldn't believe in him.
                                                                                                                                                                  lol
                                                                                                                                                                  i honestly think if someone comes here claiming to be creator of this earth (sorry dont know further) then this "creator" will get shot if not shot then tried to be put in permanent suffering for the suffering he/she/it gave to others.

                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                    • BrainDead
                                                                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                      • Dec 2003
                                                                                                                                                                      • 1536
                                                                                                                                                                      #42
                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by boobmaster


                                                                                                                                                                      Mere Christianity? I have read almost everything ever written by C.S. Lewis.

                                                                                                                                                                      I have read a FEW more books than that.
                                                                                                                                                                      if you like cs lewis then i suggest lois lowry too...

                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                        • Giorgio_Xo
                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                          • Mar 2003
                                                                                                                                                                          • 4263
                                                                                                                                                                          #43
                                                                                                                                                                          There are no gods, only our fear of the unknown exists.

                                                                                                                                                                          - Giorgio Xo
                                                                                                                                                                          Make Levees, Not War

                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                            • Joe Citizen
                                                                                                                                                                              Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                              • Oct 2003
                                                                                                                                                                              • 4552
                                                                                                                                                                              #44
                                                                                                                                                                              Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                                              If God himself came down out of the clouds with 100,000 of his angels for the entire world to see, most of you STILL wouldn't believe in him.
                                                                                                                                                                              I'd believe that he existed all right, then I'd piss on him!

                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                • rickholio
                                                                                                                                                                                  Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                  • 1914
                                                                                                                                                                                  #45
                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                                                  You miss the whole point of the argument.

                                                                                                                                                                                  (1) Every natural, innate desire in us corresponds to some real object that can satisfy that desire.

                                                                                                                                                                                  (2) But there exists in us a desire which nothing in time, nothing on earth, no creature can satisfy.

                                                                                                                                                                                  (3) Therefore there must exist something more than time, earth and creatures, which can satisfy this desire.

                                                                                                                                                                                  (4) This something is what people call "God" and "life with God forever."
                                                                                                                                                                                  The argument is fallacious. There's any number of conditions inherent to the fragility of the human brain what could cause a person to desire the impossible, improbable or just plain wierd. Read through the case studies of paranoid delusionals sometime.

                                                                                                                                                                                  ... however, lets just start with one simple concept that puts this 'desire for god' into perspective:

                                                                                                                                                                                  Immortality.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Throughout time, man has sought it, desired it, engaged in wars and quests about it, generated massive mythologies surrounding it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  It doesn't exist.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Why does a desire for immortality exist, then? I would suggest that people want immortality because they fear the unknown instinctively, and noone has come back to tell people what it's like (aside from some random people who were either 'dead' for PR reasons, or had an enormous post-mortal mythos built up). The assertion is, therefore, a logical fallacy.

                                                                                                                                                                                  "God" isn't the reason why religion exists. Religion exists to provide answers to things which, at the moment, are unanswerable by means of deduction. Back in the old days those questions were "what are those shining dots in the sky at night? why does water fall on my head?", nowadays its limited pretty much to the time-honoured questions of 'where are we from, why are we here, what happens when we die'. Rational thought has come up with better, more verifiable answers to the other questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                  God isn't the source of the desire. God is the temporary answer, until we can find something better. It's the "tastes like chicken" solution in the face of insufficient information to supplant it.

                                                                                                                                                                                  Mind you, even imperfect abstractions can be highly effective. Crystal spheres sorta did the job until Copernicus, Kepler, Brae and Newton came along. Classical mechanics was plenty useful until Einstein. Saying that God would strike down those who ate pig was still an effective means of keeping people from dying from eating undercooked pork, even though we know today that there's a better reason why it happened.
                                                                                                                                                                                  ~

                                                                                                                                                                                    Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                    • Ironhorse
                                                                                                                                                                                      Pixel Pusher
                                                                                                                                                                                      • Nov 2002
                                                                                                                                                                                      • 7094
                                                                                                                                                                                      #46
                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by MrIzzz
                                                                                                                                                                                      i want to be baptized
                                                                                                                                                                                      I want to be crucified
                                                                                                                                                                                      [email protected]

                                                                                                                                                                                        Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                        • rickholio
                                                                                                                                                                                          Confirmed User
                                                                                                                                                                                          • Jan 2004
                                                                                                                                                                                          • 1914
                                                                                                                                                                                          #47
                                                                                                                                                                                          Originally posted by Ironhorse
                                                                                                                                                                                          I want to be crucified
                                                                                                                                                                                          I wanna be sedated.
                                                                                                                                                                                          ~

                                                                                                                                                                                            Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                            • BrainDead
                                                                                                                                                                                              So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                              • Dec 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                              • 1536
                                                                                                                                                                                              #48
                                                                                                                                                                                              God is on the T.V.
                                                                                                                                                                                              ~ Marilyn Manson, Rock is dead

                                                                                                                                                                                                Comment

                                                                                                                                                                                                • boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                                                                  So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                  • 6185
                                                                                                                                                                                                  #49
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Originally posted by rickholio
                                                                                                                                                                                                  The argument is fallacious. There's any number of conditions inherent to the fragility of the human brain what could cause a person to desire the impossible, improbable or just plain wierd. Read through the case studies of paranoid delusionals sometime.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  ... however, lets just start with one simple concept that puts this 'desire for god' into perspective:

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Immortality.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Throughout time, man has sought it, desired it, engaged in wars and quests about it, generated massive mythologies surrounding it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  It doesn't exist.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Why does a desire for immortality exist, then? I would suggest that people want immortality because they fear the unknown instinctively, and noone has come back to tell people what it's like (aside from some random people who were either 'dead' for PR reasons, or had an enormous post-mortal mythos built up). The assertion is, therefore, a logical fallacy.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  "God" isn't the reason why religion exists. Religion exists to provide answers to things which, at the moment, are unanswerable by means of deduction. Back in the old days those questions were "what are those shining dots in the sky at night? why does water fall on my head?", nowadays its limited pretty much to the time-honoured questions of 'where are we from, why are we here, what happens when we die'. Rational thought has come up with better, more verifiable answers to the other questions.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  God isn't the source of the desire. God is the temporary answer, until we can find something better. It's the "tastes like chicken" solution in the face of insufficient information to supplant it.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Mind you, even imperfect abstractions can be highly effective. Crystal spheres sorta did the job until Copernicus, Kepler, Brae and Newton came along. Classical mechanics was plenty useful until Einstein. Saying that God would strike down those who ate pig was still an effective means of keeping people from dying from eating undercooked pork, even though we know today that there's a better reason why it happened.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  I believe in immortality of the soul because I have within me immortal longings.
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Helen Keller

                                                                                                                                                                                                  You claim, emphatically, that immortality does not exist, that the idea of God is only a place holder for a time when science will be able to come up with a better answer. How do you KNOW that science will ever come up with an answer (Evolution isn't it, BTW), and if it does, how do you KNOW that the answer will NOT involve God?

                                                                                                                                                                                                  The explanation you give for 'why we believe in God' is the most common one cited by those attempting to argue against the very idea. It also happens to be true. We do CREATE explanations for things that we fear or do not understand, and we clearly fear death. But it is a mistake to say that this automatically means that God MUST be a creation of man.

                                                                                                                                                                                                  Man has created many myths over the years in his attempt to come to grips with the certainty of death, and many of these explanations involve gods. The key word here is GODS (PLURAL). Man tends towards polytheism. When he 'creates' gods, he creates many of them. The only KNOWN true monotheistic system is the Judeo-Christian one, the one system that man did NOT create.

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                                                                                                                                                                                                    • boobmaster
                                                                                                                                                                                                      So Fucking Banned
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • Jul 2003
                                                                                                                                                                                                      • 6185
                                                                                                                                                                                                      #50
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Originally posted by Ironhorse
                                                                                                                                                                                                      I want to be crucified
                                                                                                                                                                                                      If you had any idea of what that would be like, I assure you, you'd change your mind.

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