Chris,

Like any other service type industry (b2b), designers have had there share of the up and down economy but as far as webinc.com goes were as busy as ever.

I guess I just belive if you put out a top grade product, team that with excellent customer service, etc you will not have many problems..

I'm not cheap. I also get business from time to time, even though my site has been 'offline' for 18 months or so.

Suggestion, don't rely on only designs.. get extra income from something else.

Yep Brujah, I see that all the time.

Competiton is good, but sometimes companies / people cut there own throat.

well not only the competition has made things harder for designers but also billing..

it takes weeks and sometimes months to add ONE site to your program..that doesnt exactly make you want to go out and add 20 new sites :)

I dont think gallery submitters were making what some designers were years ago..

If there making a living of that crap. I would say they know what there doing.

Stop competing with amateurs. Real designers command their price and it is well worth it. Mike Wylde / Walker hasn't come down much at all in his design pricing over the past 5+ years.

Amateurs are amateurs. People pay what something is worth. The more someone pays for a good design, the better the ROI will ultimately be.

People who look for cheap designs are either short on funds, and unable to do it the right way, or they have traffic that converts with cheap designs.

If someone wants to charge $100.00 for a full paysite design... Let them, they're only cutting off their own face. Not driving down market prices. I say, if you see people lowering their prices... Raise yours.

For all of you amateurs reading this... Eat a big, puss filled cock, and go back to your village. The internet is for people who know what the fuck they are doing. Design is for people who know what the fuck they are doing. Stop cheating your clients by giving them second rate bullshit designs, and actually accepting money for those pieces of crap. Leave design to the professionals.

In someone elses wise words "When it comes to design, a client must pick 2 of the 3 attributes to the project.... PRICE, QUALITY, SPEED. (Excluding those Outsourcing companies, who are second rate at best on all fronts)... Only 2 may be selected in any realistic scenerio. Somone who wants low cost, high quality work in a shortened timeframe is unrealistic and will most likely get let down in one aspect at least.

For the rest of you "Pros", keep ahead of the rest of the crowd and you'll do just fine.

:glugglug

PornWeaver - I have kept a stiff upper lip about my pricing over the years but definatly have reduced prices.

New designers will pick up they will get sharper and they will continue to grow. I used to think that yeah good service, quality and craftmanship of works would keep things nice, but its not.

Sit on the phone with a client saying, "Other people will do the same kind work you do for less alien, I am sorry bro but you know how biz is..."
I've had that same conversation numerous times this year I say yeah I know how it is I don't blame ya and good luck.

Long time clients to...

But still the prices go down even in an environment where they shouldnt if the designers really knew how to use there skill's they wouldnt design for other poeple. That logic says alot about the cheaper designers but still the impact is there and felt.

Your village just called, they said for you to pick up a bushell of hay and a wheelbarrow of water on your journey back from the city.

:glugglug

is that your best shot?

50!

Nope. I do however sense that you take pride off of giving your clients "crap" and laughing @ them all the way to the bank:

"If there making a living of that crap. I would say they know what there doing." (FYI, the word is "they're, not there.").

People won't pay what it is worth, people will pay the cheapest amount possible, period. It has been like that always and will be like that until the end of the world, don't kid yourself.

So, here's a scenerio...

Let's say you go to a designer and REALLY like their work.
You ask "How Much" for a certain project.
They say "$3,000.00".
You ask "How about $1500.00?"
They say "The price is $3,000.00... I don't haggle.".

Would $3,000.00 be the "cheapest" amount possible in this example?

Don't kid yourself thinking that what YOU pay is the "cheapest" possible.

Its the truth. Some clients simply do not ask for remakes
and revisions. Some clients will not turn down work even if it
is pitifull. And some clients just dont have an eye for whats
good. Some clients know that the best design isnt whats right
for what they are promoting.

What the designers that are bitching about prices are
trying to do is narrow down the variety of designers
for clients because they want to make more money.

To each is own. If someone is making the most shitty designs
ever, and is making money, that means that their clients
like their work, and want more of it.
Its not like the designer is FORCING it upon them. These
clients make their own desicions, and thats the way
it works.

I take pride in knowing that I deliver what my clients want.
I take pride in the compliments I get from clients and others.
I take pride in knowing that your the first to ever say
that my designs are crap. Some of them are, but thats
what was paid for. Thats how it works see.

Sorry guy but nothing you say rings true about me, even if you
are grammatically correct. :thumbsup

Well since the craze is reality sites..

those are probably pretty bad for a deisgners biz..since its basically a template so no way those are worth what a typical 3 + join would cost

If the client didnt have 3k to spend on the project. He would be forced to goto a cheaper designer, not matter the quality of the design.

Damn, you guys scare me :( I'm in this designing thing about a year now and i like it, i learned a lot, earned some money, had fun, meet some new friends and nice people, etc.

I like designing and i like learnig it, it's a nice hobby and it would be a great job if i had more clients :) You guys should stop fighing, your prices are limited to your skills. And the client limites your skills with his wishes etc. Life sucks and then you die :thumbsup

Anyway, i'm making a new personal webpage :) How do you like the "logo"? :1orglaugh

http://www.pimpvision.com/temp/dp2.jpg

True, now let's assume the client DOES have $3000 to spend on the project. Would they buy it, or go with someone cheaper?

Reality sites are supposed to be original. It cannot really be a
template since the design has to fit the reality story. So really
the designer is creating something from the ground up. Not
necissarily 100% original, but not template.

cant read the text.

Of course. but not all clients have 3k to drop on a project.
so I dont understand your point.

Clients OBVIOUSLY goto these 'cheap' designers for a reason.

Like I said, no one is FORCING anyone into any design.

Maybe because it's not english :)

Instead of worrying about the cheapo guys, why dont we go after the scam artists first? :Graucho

No its because i cant hardly make out the letters.

if I try, i think it says Daryan Panic

Yeah, my name and surname :) I didn't come up with any good ideas for the domain yet :)

If you guys like designing, you will love this page, this guy is unbelievable i watch his site from time to time just to have an inspiration. Anyone of you can do something similar?

here's the link: http://www.billybussey.com

enjoy :thumbsup

:anon

Hard to say what I'd do if I were shopping for a designer, I'd probably just fire up Photoshop and do it myself :winkwink:

Now as me the designer, I've done that "I don't haggle" bit a time or two, and what it got me was wasted days putting together quotes and ideas, only to have the fucktards take my info and go to the next designer on the list and hire them for less than my quote.

So no, I never say firm. If I WANT the job bad, then I'll get in the dirt with prices, if it is something that I feel will be a waste of time, then I'll pass a list of other design houses that I recomend along to the customer and wish them luck.

No, thats not a lot.

What kills me with this is ya'll are pricing yourselves out of business. Sooner or later
you're going to run into the wall where your
incoming doesn't meet expenses, and you'll
be back working for someone else.

Working for someone else has its benefits, but
it also has a lot of baggage to go with it. For 1,
they take a % of your work. Or, worse, you
become 'hourly', at which point you can assume the you are making less than the person 'above' you.

Thread is digressing and turning into spam you cheap whores...

Why do you design for other people when you can make more money to design your own stuff?

For if you did design your own stuff you would actually charge more but instead are happy to break each others legs.

Is there really an answer to this?

Point them out, I enjoy squashing morons as much as the next guy :thumbsup

I'd think that was because some people don't want to do the work of going out and learning the rest of what needs to be learned. Its 'easier' to design. Any idiot can make money in adult, well proven fact. But if you're not going to put forth the effort...


Again, how much is your time worth? Those doing 'free' revisions, apparently not much.

I offer free revisions, have it written in my contracts, and I have only had to revise 2 site designs out of 250 in 6 years. It's a value added service that doesn't cost me anything yet gives a warm fuzzy to the client. Has nothing to do with time, everything to do with customer satisfaction.

One reason why designers these days don't do their own stuff is because they don't have the capital to get started and at the rates new designers have to charge these days, it's really hard to get ahead and get any capital saved up unless you're in a third world country or living with mommy.

If one wants to get into the paysite business, they need to buy content, hosting, domains, software, etc. That costs alot of money. Maybe not as much as it did years ago because prices have come down in other fields, too, but with exclusive content being so important these days, it can still be extremely expensive. And to get started in cheaper alternatives like free sites, gallery submitting, SE, AVS.. all of that takes time to build a decent level of income. You have to pay your bills that you have NOW, and for some designers, that means spending every waking hour working for other people, leaving little to no time to work on anything of their own.

Rough situation, for sure.

It has everything to do with time. I'll grant that its customer satisfaction. We do revisions, but we do them before we send the customer their final product.

I"ve raised my prices 3 times (significantly) in the last year or so and still dont have the time required to take the work my clients are throwing at me. This is my first post on GFY in a month or so because I haven't had the time (*waves to all haven't talk to in a while*).

I started all mainstream 4 years ago, built the list to *currently* 31-34 clients, and just tried to stay consistent and continue to build. Clients aren't retards, most know the ropes, but if they don't, that doesn't mean you have to take advantage of it.

What I learned early is: Charge everyone the same.

My first two clients, ever....1) was a landscaper, obviously not a lot of cash or resources, and the second 2) a chiropractor, loaded out the ass, multi-millionaire. I charged both of these people differently because I knew one couldn't afford what I thought was reasonable, and obviously, wanted to make some bank (was young, didn't know any better).

All I will say is: don't do that lol. Probably the only reason I can charge what I do now is because I've kept people satisfied and kept moving things up. Keep raising the bar for yourself. Alot of the reason I believe I can keep raising prices is because I will never and have ever (at least in my own personal opinion) ever let a job fall below a certain standard. Quite simply, I always try to make every new project the BEST looking project in the portfolio, regardless. Never do something you are not proud of or that you won't show off to others. Make a site that is better than everything you have done yet, the client will always be surprised when he receives something better than anything he/she has seen in your own portfolio. If yoiu looked through my work now in a timeline, you will see just that.

Another thing, don't let clients linger and don't be "convienant." If one day you download a new browser (say Firefox for example) and realize you left out some structure to get the site looking right.... go back to every client you have, tell them the situation, and make the changes. These things go a long long fucking way and most people don't realize it. From what I've seen, a lot of designers like the 1 and done, quick hit and leave..... this won't get you far trust me.

Never let a project slide, always raise the bar, get crazy, do something insane, be upfront, thats about all I can say about pricing. 6 figure months are np these days, and only myself, no employees. (but if anyone wants some work, hit me up lol).

FF!

:thumbsup

Very nice.