Mr. Marks

I am.

Dead13

No actually your voting for Bush.

Sorry but I think anyone who is against Bush yet votes 3rd party this year is just not being very smart. If you really want your voice to count then use it where its needed. A scream is useless if noone hears it and ideas like this are exactly why 3rd parties will NEVER get ahead in this country, you too busy off acting like a bunch or moron highschool kids and not actually playing with a solid gameplan.

If your against Bush and you think he has killed thousands of people for no good reason at all then do not allow it to happen for 4 more years. I dont think any dead soldiers family gives a fuck if you "voted your conscience" and Bush wins by a very narrow margin.

pussyluver

Both Kerry and Bush suck big time. A large vote for the LB party would send a message. The only way that could happen is if the mainstream press gave more attention to to the Libertarians.

I agree strongly that we need to move away from the two party system a bit and I don't mean one party!

EviLGuY

.. the message would be. "Hey let's re-elect Bush by splitting the leftist vote!"

Giorgio_Xo

Represent!

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Babaganoosh

Nice way to waste a vote.

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Joesho

I agree, that it would be a re election vote for bush, if you vote anything other than Kerry!!!

He may not be perfect, but at least after he is gone, we will still have a country to fix.

with Bush at the helm, we may very well be involved in WWIII

he so much as said it in his speach last night!!!

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genomega

WWIII has already started...

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swoop

Where was WWIII mentioned in his speech last night?

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neewwman

Normally I vote Libertarian because I don't think the stakes are very high.

But BUSH MUST BE DEFEATED AT ALL COSTS. I'm voting Kerry and any U.S. webmaster who doesn't vote Kerry is voting for another 4 years of you-know-who as Attorney General.

Plus, voting Libertarian doesn't accomplish much. The Libertarians aren't going to get anywhere unless ideas change in this country. Buy your friends copies of "The Virtue of Selfishness" or "Capitalism: the Unknown Ideal" or "Economics in One Lesson" and spread the word around. That's how you can do your part for the cause.

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Dead13

Dude you need to look at the mess in Canada right now. A 3 party system is not the way to go, it causes nothing but chaos and uncertainty.

The leading party in Canada is in power right now with only 22% of the vote because all of the other parties are to split up to overtake them.

The meaning of a Democracy is that MAJORITY rules, 22% is by far the furthest thing you can get from a majority, but they rule anyway. That means 78% of the voters want the leading party out of office. WOW That is really some great Democracy!

And the whole idea of "sending them a message" is naive as hell. The Republicans believe what they believe, and Democrats believe what they believe and there is nothing your going to do to change that. Just because 1% of the country votes for some guy nobody has ever even heard of is not going to send any type of message at all.

Did people voting for Perot send a message in 92? NO IT DIDN'T AND HE GOT A HUGE PERCENT!!!!

The only message your sending is one of irresponsibility, you believe Bush is a murder and a thief and bad for this country, so you vote in protest when you could vote to get rid of him. And if you truely believe what you stand for you would do the right thing and GET RID OF BUSH.

Tala

Ohboy.

See sig. If you think I'm going to "waste" my vote on either a totalitarian fundie with delusions of grandeur or some Frankenstein-forehead idiot who hasn't the balls enough to go to the bathroom by himself, you're the naive one.

There have been several polls taken of the voters. (No shit, they do it every elections year.) This year, 43% (average) of those who would have otherwise voted for Bush are undecided. Of those who would have voted for Kerry, 40% are undecided.

If those two undecided groups voted Libertarian, there very well could be a Libertarian in the white house. Granted, I don't believe that's going to happen, but all in all, that in itself should send a message to voters. Those are huge gaps.

There is really no lesser of two evils. Both of these men are imbeciles who just want control, power, fame and money. The two-party system is a farce and has been for years. By and large, Americans are two-party sheep who are willing to be led in whatever direction their particular party of choice leads them.

Get out of the "Anybody but Bush" thought process. That will be what brings Kerry and his whiney pathetic hippy-dippy policies into the white house and turn us from "murdering savages" to "easily rolled over."

Yeah, that's where I want this country to go. Further down into the sewers. Lovely stench down here, isn't there?

You want real changes and real freedoms, then quit ranting about wanting it and get up off your ass and do something about it. See sig for details.

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warlock5

Really? I've had Bush supporters tell me its a vote for Kerry.

warlock5

Just for the record I really don't want the Libertarian party in power. What I do want is their ideals to take more precedance in the mainstream of both parties.

Imageauction

I'm helping support my local Libertarian candidate for office. http://www.votekimsnow.com

As for the presidential race, no way in hell do I want George Bush to win so I'll be voting for Kerry. http://www.bushorbush.com

My personal opinion is that the Libertarian party needs to quit putting candidates up for president and start focusing on taking state offices. Once a govenor or state senator gets enough name recognition and power s/he can run for president.

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Joesho

The part where he said we as the strongest nation, had a duty to god, to make the middle easty a safe place for IT'S residences.


he sure used the word God a lot man, and that we were the strongest, and all that goood stuff, I think he was setting the stage for further nation building over there if he wins.

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biglou

Libertarians are not leftist. Their ranks are composed of disenchanted Democrats and Republicans, and if properly marketed, they can draw votes from both groups.

BL
Libertarian since 1979...

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Rictor

Libertarians are way too conservative for my tastes. I want higher taxes.

biglou

In a world where Jesse Ventura and Arnold Schwarzenegger can be elected Governor, anything can happen.

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DTK

Amen

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Mr. Marks

Remember it all begins with you...

If you CHOOSE to be weak, indecisive, and pathetic... well, you know the rest of the story

CamChicks

I think it would be great if the USA reformed its political system the way many other democracys have, to allow multi-party involvement. No vote should be wasted.

Imagine how much better off we'd be if all the economic conservatives could vote for smaller government without simultaneously proping up the religious right!

I have been researching New Zealands political system, supposedly modeled off Germanys (tho I have not read much of about theirs). Here's a link to their official explaination: http://www.elections.org.nz/election...ovt_elect.html


"Parliamentarians are elected under a mixed-member proportional representation system. In the most recent general elections, held in July 2002, the Labor Party won 52 of 120 parliamentary seats and formed a minority government with the Progressive Coalition Party (2 seats), with support from the centrist United Future Party (8 seats); Helen Clark remained Prime Minister. The Labor Party also had a cooperation agreement with the Green Party (9 seats). Three other political parties were represented in Parliament: The National Party (27 seats), New Zealand First (13 seats), and the ACT party (8 seats)."

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VirtuMike

Yeah voting lib is really a wasted vote. It's not voting for Bush or Kerry - remember libertarians believe in republican economics and democrat freedoms. Libertarians are neither Dems nor Repubs, and true libs are exactly in the middle of the political spectrum.

HOWEVER, voting for a lib candidate now is just dumb. You're trying to send a message - but first think about what message you're trying to send, and to whom, and what the best way to send that message is.

If you're saying you're tired of war, vote Kerry. If you're tired of stupid social programs and freedom of speech (and your job), vote Bush. If you're tired of the two party system, vote lib. But voting lib in THIS, the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN HISTORY, is probably a really bad idea. Unless you live in a state that is overwhelmingly one party. But don't believe the hype the moronic pollsters throw at you.

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swoop

Still waiting on where he mentioned more war and that we are getting into WWIII

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erehwon

I'll be honest, I am a Republican leaning Libertarian, but this election is too close to vote Libertarian. Having Bush in office would do more negatively than just with the problems we're all having with the AG that lost to the dead guy.

The balance of the Supreme Court would be fucked up pretty much for now on. Amending the Constitution to ban gay marriage would likely happen, important research that could end such misery like diabetes and alzheimer's would be shuttered with banning of stem cell research.

I'll be brutally honest here, I voted for GWB in the last election, but I didn't vote for this flavor of a Republican, had I known how this all would have shaked out, I would have likely voted for Gore (shudder).

What I really want to know is when did Pat Buchanan start making sense? I can really agree with what he is saying now.

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mardigras

"We are staying on the offensive? striking terrorists abroad? so we do not have to face them here at home. And we are working to advance liberty in the broader Middle East, because freedom will bring a future of hope, and the peace we all want. And we will prevail."


Full transcript

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mardigras

The transcript I posted above was a pre-speech copy of the planned comments (although the words are basically the same). Here is the
actual transcript of the speech as given at the RNC, and I have included excerpts below that I feel most suggest we should be expecting more war:

"And we know that September the 11th requires our country to think differently. We must, and we will, confront threats to America before it is too late."

"As importantly, we are serving a vital and historic cause that will make our country safer. Free societies in the Middle East will be hopeful societies which no longer feed resentments and breed violence for export. Free governments in the Middle East will fight terrorists instead of harboring them."

"I am proud that our country remains the hope of the oppressed and the greatest force for good on this Earth.

Others understand the historic importance of our work. The terrorists know. They know that a vibrant, successful democracy at the heart of the Middle East will discredit their radical ideology of hate."

"The terrorists are fighting freedom with all their cunning and cruelty because freedom is their greatest fear. And they should be afraid, because freedom is on the march.

I believe in the transformational power of liberty. The wisest use of American strength is to advance freedom."

"Palestinians will hear the message that democracy and reform are within their reach and so is peace with our good friend, Israel.

Young women across the Middle East will hear the message that their day of equality and justice is coming. Young men will hear the message that national progress and dignity are found in liberty, not tyranny and terror.

Reformers and political prisoners and exiles will hear the message that their dream of freedom cannot be denied forever. And as freedom advances, heart by heart, and nation by nation, America will be more secure and the world more peaceful.

America has done this kind of work before, and there have always been doubters."

"The progress we and our friends and allies seek in the broader Middle East will not come easily or all at once."

"We were honored to aid the rise of democracy in Germany and Japan, Nicaragua and Central Europe and the Baltics, and that noble story goes on.

I believe that America is called to lead the cause of freedom in a new century. I believe that millions in the Middle East plead in silence for their liberty. I believe that given the chance, they will embrace the most honorable form of government ever devised by man.

I believe all these things because freedom is not America's gift to the world; it is the almighty God's gift to every man and woman in this world."

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dennisthemenace

Bump

I will be voting for Michael Badnarik because I'm not willing to support the "big 2" or the 2 party system in general.

Change can only happen if we do something DIFFERENT and arguing over the same two idiots every four years is NOT different.

I have personal issues with censorship, killing and having my "leaders" (bahaha) tell me what I can and can't do, see, hear and talk about.

Please reconsider all the arguing and finger pointing in this thread. It only serves to further divide us. We're all people... we all have rights granted to us just by being born on this planet as human beings. The current system and leadership have not worked in the best interest of it's people.

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mardigras

Well, this is a democracy, and in a democracy majority rules. As it appears now the majority want laws limiting what you can say do, see, hear or talk about. So now you are in the minority. Who's fault is that?

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swoop

Ok, we don't want another 9/11 do we? Above I see that we are going to root out the terrorists abroad, bring peace where we can and have a future of hope.

Your response was lame.

Someone please try to make the point where Bush mentioned we are having another WWIII in the speech?

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dennisthemenace

To be completely honest with you, I'm not here (on this board or on this planet) to find fault.

Just because people have been willing to blindly follow the lead of a mob mentality doesn't make it right, smart or useful and it certainly doesn't mean we're all doomed for it being that way forever.

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mardigras

My response was lame?

We are going to root out the terrorists abroad?

In every mideast country?

In no country will a takeover ever be completely accepted. Never.

You do realize that in order to even begin to think about accomplishing the mission of making the Middle east "liberated" we have to first stabilize the region by taking out the governments of Iran and North Korea? Calculate the fiscal and human cost of that compared to what we have "accomplished" so far.

My response was lame?

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mikesouth

First of all Dead13 we do NOT live in a Democracy We live in a Constitutional Republic. The founding fathers of this country knew that Democracy was a bad thing. So much so that the word does not appear in the constitution, the bill of rights, the federalist papers or the declaration of independence.

Democracy/majority rule is the equivalent of anarchy and anyone in this country who is black should know this better than anyone.

But more on topic if all of the people who say i would vote libertarian but its a wasted vote actually voted libertarian we'd have a Libertarian President.

A vote is earned in my opinion.

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DTK

It's impossible to "throw away your vote" if you're representing what you truly believe in.

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Giorgio_Xo

See sig!

Libertarians represent yo!

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mardigras

My comment about fault was a question for all to ponder. Sorry if you thought I was attacking you personally.

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Dead13

I think your wrong. If your not wrong then prove it, show me social statics that say that the Libertarian party can get over 50% of the votes in this country.

If that were true then you guys shouldn't have a problem at all with funding a REAL canadiate to go out and compete against Bush and Kerry. And dont give me a bunch of bullshit that it cannot be done because Ross Perot had no problem doing it out of his own pockets in 92.

My problem with the Libertarian party has always been that they are all talk and no action. Its a party where people would rather sit about and bitch and wine about their probelms and how unfair life is rather than taking a stand, getting organized and going out to do something about it.

I was a member of this party for several years, I even contributed financially until I finally got sick and tired of throwing my trust in a party that would never follow through.

If you feel the Libertarian's have earned your vote then your correct, I have no right to argue that vote for who you want. My point is that we all know Bush is evil and we all know we cannot allow him to serve (dictate) another 4 years, so for once all other parties should ban together and get rid of the son of a bitch rather than tossing support to canidates who have no chance in hell.

In 4 years put together a platform, fundrasie and get a canadiate to challenge Kerry for re-election if you don't like it.

dennisthemenace

Not at all man.

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