Juicy D. Links

There is only x amount of soldiers....when the supply is out where else to get more but non other than a draft......


TBH if a draft was done I wouldnt fight Bush's war. I would rather be in jail.


Thoughts?

Mike AI

Nope. I would put major money that we do not have a draft in years - and maybe forever, unless there is a major world war ( war with China).

We are dealing in Low Intesity Conflicts.

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detoxed

I'd go kick some ass, not sure what ass i'd be kicking, but some

zzgundamnzz

I agree, unless we fight a superpower or participate in war after war I doubt we'll be having a draft.

We got too many volunteers a reserves right now.

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Its actually already in the works.

Be afraid, if thisw fuck head gets re elected.

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Juicy D. Links

i feel it is inevitable if bush is re elected.

I think i might be in the clear though cause i am 28 not true what the cut off age is.

Spunky

Fight for your country...

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Juicy D. Links

not alot as you think man. If Bish decides to keep on conquering we only have x amount of reservists and such .

Tempest

Given Bush will need to invade Iran and then Korea, it's inevitable if he gets put in power by the courts again.

Juicy D. Links

I have no issue fighting for my country , I have issue fighting a bs war for bs reasons

Juicy D. Links

If he goes after Korea then its gonna be ............ a very very bad time for America

Spunky

But isn't all military fighting because of any president? Nobody has a choice

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Juicy D. Links

Spunky i am gonna move to CA and live with you if they make a draft. Set me up a extra bed yo.

Rich

It could be coming sooner than you think, if they start a war with Iran they'll have no other option. Unlike Iraq they still have an army, and have 70 million healthy people who like their government.

Mike AI

War with Iran, Syria? No need for draft. We could take them both on at same time and win in 4 months.

China/Korea both would need a draft.

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EviLGuY

I think it's probable if Bush gets re-elected.

He needs more troops to fight his holy wars. Err war on terrorists who happen to be Muslim I mean.

Spunky

No problem ..no wars and shit here..we are at peace with everybody..just gotta get past the border gaurds..bring Izzy with ya

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Tempest

Yep. I heard that the US sent 7 carrier groups over that direction. The media didn't really coer it. It's never happened before. The mo tthey've sent is something like 2-4 for a war. Never 7. The general feeling is that it was a message to Korea and/or China.

piker

I thought it was republicans who were supposed to use fear to swing votes? I guess I was wrong yet again....

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Mike AI

Can you back this up with proof?? I would like to know more about this. Post links.

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WickedVenus

I think the cut off age is 31 unless its changed and I didnt hear of the change.

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Juicy D. Links

Shit 7 carriers? Hmmm prob a move to show the US is "watching"

Juicy D. Links

Great

MattB

South Korea doesnt need our help to beat North Korea. They can do it on their own. Neither country wants us there and Bush said he was pulling the troops out of there, so its pretty unlikely that we're going to do anything there IMO.

I dont think they will need a draft either. Sure, people get killed off or injured, but more people are joining all the time.

WickedVenus

OK look at it this way guys if you guys do get draffted, make sure you go get a papercut and get a purple heart your first day, then you can get discharged for being injured. I mean bush got his from a paper cut didnt he?

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Tempest

I can't remember where I read the original article but I think it was a failry mainstream source like CNN or MSN or something like that.

If you do a Google search for 7 carrier groups there's a bunch of links (mostly government), some board links and a few like these as well.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200477.asp
http://www.intelmessages.org/Message...s_04/8097.html

I was mistaken. It wasn't Korea, it was primarily China IF they attack Taiwan. I remember the article saying that China could take on 2 US carrier groups but not more than that yet and so if they invaded Taiwan they would have to do it very quickly.

So there's a new war for ya that no one's really talking about.

piker

no, bush didnt goto war nor does he have a medal, kerry is the one that people claim he got one from a papercut

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TheJimmy

sadly I believe that Bush really believes this....

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piker

that is sad that you believe this... what else do you believe? maybe george bush is actually an alien from outer space? or is that just too rediculus?

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robfantasy

Ya i wouldnt go to war draft or no draft.. how can you justify killing people you dont know for a country that doesnt care about you

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stocktrader23

I feel a draft coming soon.

I am sitting under the vent naked though.

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WickedVenus

It was a joke about bush and his papercut that was then turned around to make it sound like it was kerry. No way in hell that I think Bush got any medals. Just Liek No way in hell do I think he would have or ever would if he was still of age go to war.

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iwantchixx

when I feel a draft I usualy close the windows.

Rochard

Leading up to WWII the US more or less had no military, which was why we needed the draft. Very few think of this, but the US fought two major wars on two different fronts at the same time. Since then, and mostly because of Korea and Vietnam, the US has been prepared to fight two major battles on two different fronts.

There is no doubt in my mind that the US can take Iran in four months. North Korea I'm not too sure about.

Draft? Perhaps. But they sure won't call my ass up.

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Fuck bush you guys are crazy if he gets back in.
Juicy force my trade more I have spare for a few days and hit me on ICQ I need more traffic going with you.

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Rich

You have no concept of reality.

They already started the stop loss for the Iraq war. Do you know what that is? Iraq won't be 1/10th the problem Iran will be.

steve90

If we went to war with north korea i think they would have a draft other wise no

SleazeQueen

I do too.

I saw on TV last night a group of retired reservists who have been called up. One of them is 56 years old and has been out for 15 years but is still getting some reservist benefits so technically they can call him up any time, but nobody ever has before. He's at "refresher training" kinda boot camp now.

Next step has to be the draft.

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crowkid

No evidence or solid proof pointing to that happening. Pure speculation.

Doctor Dre

The president doing the draft would automaticly loose the next election

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rickholio

A few raw statistics, to add fuel to whatever flames want it:



Total number of US "named dead" (confirmed dead): 977

Total number reported dead, pending family notification: 35

Total number of wounded (combat and non-combat): 6937

Total number of non-combat injury evacuations: 4416

Total number of disease evacuations: 7347

Totalled up, these numbers represent aproximately 19,700 active duty soldiers removed from the theatre of operations in iraq over a span of 534 days... an average of just under 37 per day, with around 15/day from injuries sustained as a result of hostile/non-hostile fire.

By comparison, the average death rate across the vietnam campaign is 2/day now vs. 26/day in vietnam (1/13th fatality rate). However, it's good to point out that today's combattant has substantially improved armor which yeilds a much higher survival rate for injuries that, in the vietnam era, would most certainly have been fatal. It's therefore more useful to compare casualties vs casualties: 15/day vs. 94.5/day (Vietnam servicemen suffering 6.3x times the casualties of those in iraq).

The charts show a potential trend upwards in injuries. If, for instance, september yeilds similar numbers to august, casualties rates would increase to an average of over 16/day, bringing the differential in casualties up to about 1/5.8 that of vietnam. Obviously, such trends of violence escalation would quickly bring the rates of those serving in iraq into parity, due to the comparitive shortness of the Iraq conflict vs. that of Vietnam.

Sources:

Global Security's U.S. Casualties in Iraq statistics
Iraq Coalition Casualty Count
WHS OSD Vietnam Casualty Summary

reynold

thanks for that info

stocktrader23

I heard about one on the news the other day that had a heart attack after he was called up and deployed.

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stocktrader23

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rickholio

Anyways, based on those numbers, it would appear that, if current losses are maintained, just under 15,000 new recuits per year would have to be trained and deployed to maintain current operational levels. There are no easily available statistics on recruitment levels, but I'm sure these numbers are in no small way affecting the increased intensity of on-campus recruitment and, of course, the infamous stop-loss and recall orders of honorably discharged servicepeople.

I'd say that a draft will depend on if, and if so how quickly, they can stem the flow of casualties and (surprisingly) disease amongst the in-country personell.

I'd also suggest that the cost of providing for the training of these replacements, and the cost for the care and provision of the evacuated wounded, will be substantial. There's an old addage in times of war: "Killing the enemy takes out one opponent. Wounding an enemy takes out one, plus two to carry him to the rear." Time will tell how well VA funding weathers the blessings of increased protection.

johnbosh

no

titmowse

here'smy little twist on this.

while i don't have an opinion on whether there will be a draft, i believe there will be an unforseen problem if it is reinstated, namely the problem of female soldiers.

will they draft the girls too? will girls sue to be included in the draft? will the draft be considered sexually discriminatory?

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CamChicks

Re-instating the draft would be political suicide - so, while a few lunatic leaders might support it, there won't be enough votes to make it happen. Hypothetically, even if it did, there wouldn't be enough prisons or guards to force consequences on all those who refused.

Besides, we'll never invade a country that has nukes. In the near future, that'll be prettymuch every potential enemy.

The only war with China will be a trade war, which we can't win. They will be the economic superpower of the next century.

Soon the Islamic states will join together collectively, under the umbrella of a nuclear arsenal, and the USA won't have shit to say about the price of oil anymore.
Also at that point, to avoid nuclear war, we'll have to step back from the Israel dispute and let 'em sort it out themsevles; whatever the consequences.

We're going to have to get used to not being "#1" anymore. We'll still be one of several strong nations, just not the only one. The USA will no longer have the luxury of ignoring the UN.

If we have pragmatic rational leaders who can practice effective diplomacy, then things really won't be that bad. Mutually Assured Destruction worked okay in the 80's. But if we end up with another 'Dubbya' . . . then maybe the world goes BOOM.

::shrug:: whatever, we're all dead sooner or later anyway, then none of this matters.

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rickholio

I think you're right on this one... there's still enough bad feeling about the last draft (at least, amongst the people not privilaged or connected enough to dodge it) that a draft this time would be considered a serious infraction on civil rights.

An ugly thought, but probably true... at least to a certain extent. I doubt many countries would develop a nuclear capability of substantial proportions enough to inflict damage anywhere in the world they wanted, but even short range balistics can cause a world when tipped with 20 megatonnes. Still, never say never. Remember that Nixon mulled the possibility of a limited nuclear exchange, and by today's standards he'd be farther left than Clinton!

China's weakness is its need for energy. If they can develop domestic energy production to the point where they're not dependant on OPEC or US hegemonic puppets, they will be very difficult to defeat economically. It's no great surprise that they've been building pebble-bed nuclear reactors all across the country, with an eye to produce as much as 75% of their energy needs by those means.

I can't see this happening unless some extraordinary circumstances, or an extraordinary person, brings them together.

There is a certain wistfulness amongst arabs that another "Saladin" rises up, a militant religous icon that unites all the followers of islam under his banner and brings them into a new golden age. A cult of personality like Osama bin Laden could pull it off if unification were his genuine goal, but so far noone has stepped up into the role and OBL only evokes that imagery in a cynical fashion.

However, an extreme act by a 'loose canon', say Israel deciding to bomb iran's nuclear development facilities, could be a trigger that would cause such an overwhelming tide of anger against zionism that it'd break the barriers of nationalism and sectism... at least long enough to ride roughshod all over israel. There'd be a lot of additional fallout as well; an event like this would surely trigger the popular uprising heralding end of the house of Saud.

Assuming the avoidance is desirable to whomever was in power at the time. See above about Nixon.

I don't think that the US will drop into medocrity easily. It'll slowly lose dominance in one area, then another, then another. Some things they'll never lose. This is all highly speculative, of course. I *would* suggest that the culture of mindless consumerism will have to come to a halt for all but the richest elite.

I don't think the black and white, good guy vs. bad guy pseudo-view of the world from the 50s would be applicable in this scenario. There's going to be several "power blocs", each with their own power bases and alliances. Nuke exchanges would probably fuck up the world fairly substantial, but it wouldn't be that total destruction thing like back in the day. Of course, as a result it'd make the situation much less stable.

One thing I'll be interested in finding out is how the US will deal with the end of oil. Considering all domestic agriculture and commerce is heavily dependant on petroleum, the potential for catastrophe is large.

Goatse

If there's a draft, there could very well be a revolution in the US. If there's a systematic refusal to join the army, what could the Washington elite do about it? Authorize the use of force? The government would be overthrown by an angry mob.