AAAHHH yes more credible people, Nixon Admin's.... :1orglaugh

You mean Watergate helpers?

Right, and how does he do that? and whats the difference between that system and Canada's, the fact that there is another middleman to deal with?

He is not opposed to military? Tell me one time in the last 20 years that he has voted for weapons systems? Or intelligence systems? And why should I beleive you? How do you have the inside tract on this?

Right, do the math he wants to tax the top 2% which would increase revenue by 600 billion, but increase spending by what 13 trillion or some number where do you think hes going to get the rest of the money? Plus, its an old idea to tax the wealthy and give to the poor. It creates class warfare... And guess what the poor are still poor.

How can the poorest support the rich. Are you nuts the poorest don't pay taxes in the first place. Do yourself some favor look at the numbers. Get an econ book or 2 and do some reading into this tax the rich idea and see how likely it is to make your life better...

And this is how it went down. The Russians and British intelligence told our intelligence that Iraq had WMD's and where planning attacks on the US or supporting terror... Our intelligence (the one John Kerry keeps trying to cut funding to) confirmed this. Bush, Kerry and a whole host of other important national politicans said Iraq has WMD's lets go to United Nations... United Nations passed another security resolution for Iraq to disarm (they obviously thought they had something to). Then the United Nations would not enforce its resolution when Saddam said no i dont have weapons and i will not step down... (BTW, no one believed him except maybe the people doing business with him)... Bush found this unacceptable.. So did Kerry and a host of other congress man as they voted to give Bush power to handle the war in Iraq. So we went to war and it turns out everyone was wrong.. Not just Bush.. but everyone was wrong Saddam wasn't waiting for us with chemical weapons...

If you want to blame Bush for that with your limited information go ahead. But the people with the most information still support this war and still think it was a good idea to go.

The claim that the 40 billion dollars (which is the wrong number its 87 billion) went straight to Haliburton's pocket is rediculus. For that to happen, don't you think a whole lot of approiations commisions and other people would notice or ask where that money went? What about all our military that the money was supposed to go to? Would you let Haliburton just take your money or would you send a letter to CNN or Fox News?

Don't you think the people of Haliburton and the adminstraion make enough money? Do you really think they are that desperate for money that they go to this length to get it?

Right, because they have so much to gain right now? That they decided lieing about National Security was the way to go.

Ignorance is bliss, don't see John Kerry for what he really is... Vote for him anyways.

No one cares about Nam. Half the voters were born AFTER Nam. Enough already. Kerry and Bush were in their early 20's then. WTF. NO ONE is ever going to be able to be President is all the shit they did was brought up. I can seeing in 50 years some 70 year old running for President will have his campaign deraield because someone brought up some gangbang he patricipated in when he was 18.

I suspect that I will not have to do any research as Hannity had no knowledge of citizen Kerry making three trips to Paris to speak with the North Vietnamese during the Nixon Presidency (as reported by the Newt)...so I am assuming that this matter will be expanded on by the media or proponets/opponets. You say "work with Congress"...and I am unaware of any "work with Congress". I am only aware of citizen Kerry belonging to a group of people opposed to the war...testifying before Congress.

Funny, you ask me how I seem to have the inside tract on this but then you go off on your rant to explain to me exactly how everything went down like you have a crystal ball into the entire workings of the American political system.

hahahahahaha, Like you know anymore than I do, at the very least I am studying for my Masters in Political Science which I will have completed in the next month or so. Actually learning how Politics works from a policy standpoint and the day to day operations on a local, regional, state-wide, and national level.

What do you do? Watch Fox news to learn about politics?

And BTW I have several friends who are now working for the Kerry campaign on different levels. I get to hear stuff all the time you probably know nothing about. That is not an insult to you at all, just saying I do in fact have all kinds of angles to judge this from that I assume you do not.

How stupid of me, why in the world would yu do any research of your own to get the facts straight when you could easily just sit back and let the media do it all for you.

Funny how everything bad the media says about Kerry is 100% true and everythng bad said about Bush is just liberal left wing non-sence. :1orglaugh

tey ahve to gain is keeping a DEM out of office.

Why don't you see what BUSH really is NIMROD. Is wear this country DESERVES to go to pot if Bush is re-elcted because that means there are so many STUPID people. And no I'm not a lib or dem. One good thing about Bush getting re-elected the country will be so fucked up that Jeb Bush's chances of being president will be NIL.

The millions of Vets from the Vietnam Confilict care...and voters in general...in my opinion care about actions...no matter what age those actions were committed...particularly when those actions are verging upon treason.

Don't worry about Jeb! Barbra Bush said two nights ago, "No More Bush's In The White House!!!!"

And she meant it. :glugglug

Is that kinda like Bush negotiating business deals for Unical with the Talliban pre 9-11?

For someone with all those angles you'd figure you do more then spit democratic talking points and Michael Moore's film... But if you got a masters in poly sci, did you take any macro econ classes?

I'm not sure you know this... But, America depends on natural gas. Almost as much as oil. And to secure a deal to get more natural gas is a good idea...

I'm sure he was unaware that the taliban was support osama who had plans to destroy the world trade towers...

But, I agree, it is much cooler to think that the current adminstration is in the middle of a big conspiracy theory.. maybe we will see an x-files type show on fox some day? and itll turn out this war on terror was all about making a few billion dollars for a few private guys...

Is that bad?

Was it OK that Regan negotiated with Iran not to release the hostages until after Carter was defeated?

Newt made the statement just last night on national TV. As I stated I assume the media and/or proponets/opponets will expand upon the statement. I have been waiting today for someone from the Kerry campaign to deny the validity of Newt's statements but I have yet to see any. I am going to assume that if there is not...at the least...a denial of Newt's statements it will be because Newt spoke the truth.

I take everything said by the media with a grain of salt. I also take everything said by the parties involved with a grain of salt. Only a fool would do otherwise.

Why do you feel this way? I dont understand why you feel Americans are stupid if they elect the best candidate... And what makes you think if Bush gets 4 for more years that things will be so fucked up?

I bet you didnt know the GDP is the highest it has been in 20 years... not to mention the war on terror is progressing.. It seems we hear every month about Pakistan capturing more Al Queda operatives...

I'd like you to show me where I have quoted Michael Moore.

Seems some of you don't do your homework. You can't sit and listen to "talking heads" all the time. Sometimes, you may even have to "read."

I was in Nam (65-66) in a line unit. And, I might add, for a full 13 month tour, scratches included.

And, YES, Johnjohn DID to go Paris and meet with the North Vietnamese. I might also add that, at the time he did it, he was STILL a US Naval Officer which places him at the mercy of the US Constitution. Maybe you should READ that document again.

Trying to save the POWs? I seriously doubt it. Looking to make a name for himself? A more plausable alternative answer!

If any of you yearn to be governed by "Hanoi John," I really think you deserve it. The rest of the country doesn't need him. But, you surely must.

The next two months are going to be fantastic to watch. His own election committee is starting to show signs of the strain of lies they have to try to cover up ever day. People are really starting to do what Senator Edwards implored you all to do, "Look at John Kerry and his past." Ok, and his poll numbers are starting to prove that people are doing exactly that.

As for me, he targeted me as an "ear slicing baby killer" a long time ago....and he's never once, to this day, said "I'm sorry" or "I made a mistake."

He can kiss my rice paddy sittin' ass! It's a wonder that, in a fire fight, one of his own men didn't punch his ticket. Sure would have save us a lot of arguing. LOL

He sold us out then and he'll sell you out, too. We can only be hopeful he doesn't get the chance.

BTW, he also has a "place of honor" in the Hanoi War Museum. Check that out, too, while you're at it.

PROOF and FACTS, not rethoric, should be guiding you this election. Your lives depend on it.

I dont understand everything Michael Moore does is a lie and he is a wacko but Vietnamvetswhohatekerry.com or the rightwing pundits are a legimate news sources. lol

for those of you who just sit and wait to hear what TV news has to say, try reading this:

Kerry Museum Photo Documented

http://kerrylied.com/

I doubt you'll hear the liberal press touch on this point...unless a lot of 527s bring it up, which I'm sure they will.

QUESTION: Why would "an enemy" place our Presidential Candidate, who was a "warrior" at the time, in a "place of honor?"

Let's hear your raggedy reasoning.

PS...The difference between MM and the anti-Kerry groups is that there's usually documentation with the groups. MM thinks you're an idiot. And you follow him. He MUST be right! LOL

In THIS election (let's try and stay focused now), the Republicans by FAR have been the antagonists when it comes to pushing or supporting lies and deceit.

The whole Swift Boat Vets thing is one of the biggest lies to roll down the road in elections in decades!

But that is the Bush plan..spread lies & innuendos..and even if it's not true..they hope people will hear enough disturbing falsehoods so they will NOT vote for Kerry. They may not vote for Bush, but a vote LESS for Kerry IS one more vote for Bush!

Yes folks..let's ruminate about what may or may NOT have happened *30* some years ago! It's obvious it has a real connection and bearing on TODAY'S issues!

Heck, I can't blame the pubes for wanting to go back to 1971 because there is no way they can defend their record in 2004!

And THAT *IS* the bottom line here! Deflect attention from what is happening TODAY and let's make a BIG stink about crap that took place over 30 years ago that has absolutely NO BEARING on today's world.

FactCheck

His voting record is all referenced from here.
"Starting in 1997 Kerry voted for every regular Department of Defense appropriations bill and for every authorization bill as well."

Actually, check your facts, everyting in F 911 is laid out on the website in point by point format as it appears in the movie with the sources of everything stated within it.

Everything single fact can be cross checked by accessing public records at the library or clerk of courts, and various mainstream news agencies (i.e. Fox, Cnn, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, Al Jazera, etc etc etc) (unless you actually believe all of these news agencies are run by liberals then I can give you 100 reasons why you are fucking dead wrong) and in most cases you can cross reference sources and links guide you directly to the sources info pages regarding the subject matter.

Think what you want but its all right there for any idiot who can take the time to read it all.

Of course I realize its so much easier to get your news from Rush and then go out on your crusade to educate the world :1orglaugh

He never accussed you or anyone of doing those things, he was recounting stories he'd been told. Perhaps you got painted with that brush, and that is unfortunate.

The fact is atrocities DID happen in Vietnam, and he was reporting what he'd heard.

FactCheck

:thumbsup

But, you can defend John Kerry's record 6th months ago? Lets be honest John Kerry's has a 20 year voting record. To speak for, why didnt he speak about it at his democratic convention if his record is something to be proud of... Well, thats easy the American people are not proud of his voting record. In fact the only talking about his voting record are republicans. Democrats dont want you to know that he doesnt like national defense and that he doesnt believe in intelligence...

Beleive it or not what you believed 20-30 years ago still applies today especially if you dont make any actions to prove you changed your opinion on the matter.

FACTS:
John Kerry disrespected and sold out Vietnam Fighter while they were still fighting the war. Why, do people care? Because John Kerry is applying for the Job of leading these same troops he sold out.

John Kerry believes in class warfare. He believes the poor should hate the rich etc.. Because that way he can tell the poor he is fighting for them. And nobody else is...

John Kerry has never met a tax increase he did not like... John Kerry's solution to economic problems... Yes, raise taxes... Why? Well, it's simple more taxes means more money the govt can spend to control you. Sure they might give you a decent job in the process...

There are more facts to tell you about John Kerry but ill save them for another time... Or maybe you can do your own research... And I'll garuntee you'll find more proof then some fat fuck trying to make pre-war Iraq look like the garden of eden.

HAHA, that is funny... Everything in F911 is true, nothing is exagerrated or made up.. That is cute... Pre-War Iraq was the garden of eden... Then the american bombs started....

:1orglaugh is this idiot for real? oh the irony...

I think it is just a rumour

Voting records are BS and you know it. If there was a bill that was say for farmers and say Kerry wanted it but some republican secretly put in the bill a $100 mil for some un-necessary project in that republican's home state, so showing FISCAL RESPONSIBLITY Kerry voted agianst this bill for that reason. Well Bush would say "see Kerry is against farmers" Which in reality he was agianst wasteful spending on prjects not realted to a farm bill. Too bad you Bush loving idiots can't see that. The world is not as black and white as you'd like to make it.

arrrggghhh, i love the smell of desperation in the morning.

the one advantage bush has over kerry is that kerry was a senetor for so long and has a voting record where bush doesn't But it's easy to spin a voting record. You could have a defense bill that also has a bunch of shit thrown into it that isn't defense related or even needed. He votes against it because of the extra crap and now bush can say he's voting against defense spending. Like the bill he voted against that had a ton of crap in it and had little to do with defense but it had a small amount in it to buy flak jackets. He voted against it and now kerry is against our troops having flak jackets.

Taxing the rich and giving tax cuts to the poor ( kerry ) is no more class warfare than taxing the poor and giving tax breaks to the rich ( bush ) is. It's simply a different economic outlook. Kerry needs the middle just as bad a bush does so he plays the odds. There are many more poor people ( or people with average to below average incomes ) than there are wealthy. By telling them he will cut their taxes he helps get their vote eventhough a tax cut for them will show them very little extra money.

What I can't understand is that bush has taken the largest budget surplus in the history of this country and in 3 1/2 years turned it into the largest deficet since the depression. yet nobody calls him on it.

bush, while spending money like a drunken democrat, still has failed to fund most of the things that he talked about in the first election.

Bush said he will never touch the social security surpluss yet in his last budget he calls for using that surpluss for other things every year until 2013. If it were kerry that said that it would be called a flip flop.

Arguing politics here really isn't going to help sway any opinions. The bottom line is simple. If you are okay with our massive deficet, tax cuts for the top 2%, over 1million net jobs lost during the last 4 years, over 1 million more people now living in poverty in the US and the situation in Iraq, and you think in the end it will all work out ( and it could you never know ) vote for bush.

if not vote for kerry.

The election will come down to about 10 states where they are either tied or within a few points of each other. If one guy ends up winning 8 of those states he will win in a landslide. If not it will be very very close.

In the end the president only has so much power becauce congress keeps him in check. What is most important is who he puts in his cabinet including sec.defense and attorney general and who he may put on the supreme court. That is what we really should be worried about.

If you think Kerry will turn the US into Canada South, put your tin foil hat back on and go back to watching Fox News.

just my 2 cents

:1orglaugh


Nice sig !

Bush should eat more pretzels while riding a Segway and someone needs to "accidently" turn on the microwave oven when Cheney enters a White House breakroom.

Ok then go do your own research and round up all of your facts and post links and public recoprds to them right here in this forum and prove 911 is wrong.

You can't BECASUE ITS FUCKING TRUE!!!!!!

If you seriously cannot, then please stick to topics you can actually show facts to back up your arguments with.

:thumbsup

Bush could smash kittens heads in with a hammer and justify it and Bush lovers would believe him.

What school is going to give you a masters in poly sci, when you believe all the shit thrown in F911?

Word. The GOP is the party of morons. The backwards element of our society.

I'd agree with you about the voting record if it wasnt that Kerry was so consistent on these facts.. voting down weapons, intelligence, tax decreases and increasing taxes... You can explain some of the votes to just bad bills. But, when he votes against the majority of the senate consistently on some issues its hard to explain.

Well, the reason you dont understand where the surplus has gone is because you dont understand economics... The deficit works like this.. When the economy is doing good there is more revenue to go around and you can end up with a surplus if you dont spend it all... When, there is a recession like the last year of the Clinton years and probablyt he first 3 years of the bush adminstraion. You lose that revenue... Then you throw 911 on it where we are forced to increase spending on things like national security. You end up with a deficit. I'm not saying it couldnt of been handled better but I don't think Kerry would have.

When you have things like recessions and you throw terrorist attacks on our economic center. You will lose jobs and more people will be in poverty because of that fact. To add to this explanation. The Clinton team artificially held the dollar high so the american consumer had more spending power. Which, would work well. If you didnt pass things like nafta which made it cheaper for american manufactors to shift jobs over seas.... Losing the manufactoring jobs would even be alright if we could of replaced them with tech jobs. But, I'll be damned we had a dot com burst as well and there went those jobs.

BTW, all this happened during the last years of the Clinton adminstration. Except for 911 obviously. The fallout just took a few years to hit home. And now it looks like a Bush problem to the masses of uneducated people...

And not only did Bush cut taxes for the top 2% he cut taxes for most people that actually pay taxes.

I don't think Kerry would turn US in to Canada South simply because he wouldnt be able to.. But, I do think if he could he would.. That seems to be the idea hes conveyed to me...

Thats, why republicans are the party with politicians screaming about god knows what... that has senators and former vice presidents getting all worked up and calling our president a liar.... When in fact that believed the same evidence the president passed on...

Thats why republicans have highly respeced senators in their party going on national tv talking about what a disgrace the party is... Ohh, wait nope.. thats democrats sorry....

Ohh, not to mention all the soft money being donated to such causes as painting the president as an evil man and comparing him to hitler... Democrats spend 87% more money on this junk then republicans... Which is why people like you that dont really care about politcs believe all this non-sense...

Ohh, it doesnt hurt to have filmmakers and actors speaking out and amplifying the lies....

prove it

oh, and besides fighting for the US then having the balls to stand against a bad war, here's a little something else Kerry did in his 20 year career as a Senator:

The Kerry Report

:glugglug

Your a very misinformed puppy. The last 3 years of Clinton's presidency saw the highest economic growth rate the country has ever seen, and we amased the largest surplus in our countries history.

OOo ya I bet that led to a recession :1orglaugh


In case you missed it, the second the supreme court announced their decision in Gore v. Bush the stock market dropped like a bomb and and never went back up. Just there mere thought of Bush winning the presidency is what led to the recession, then Bush made it a whole lot worse with his bullshit economic plan.

If such an educated man then please tell me whay you think 2 - 4 = growth?


And the answer is no, I do not think you are smart or hip because you call it "poly sci" I think your to fucking lazy to type out Political Science :321GFY

And BTW, this is not a solid responce to what I actually said. Because I have proof of the facts in the movie being true and you do not have the balls to show otherwise.

And "I don't have to prove it, I know its not true," is not an acceptable answer on this one.

I laid out a challenege for you, but obviously because it would take you some time a research and because it is not a simple challenge for you by any means you instead insult me. When you know good and damn well you cannot accept the challenge because it would be a waste of your time to try to disprove already proven facts.

If I am wrong, then again I say, stop your whinning about Michael Moore and fucking prove it!

I posted on this board after having watched his film...that he twisted facts...and used innuendo to the point that the film does not represent truth...but is is instead basically BS. Presenting facts the whole facts and nothing but the facts would be a "documentary" but Moore chose to make a Michaelmentary.

The simple fact is MOST documentaries are skewed one way or the other. His documentary was strictly to document the evils he sees in the Bush family, and administration. He did exactly what he set out to do and there is nothing wrong with what he did. It was something he believed in and what he believed to be truth. And when you can go and back up your documentary with the original news articles and records its a kill shot.

So he really did nothing wrong, I bet if Rush put out some conservative right wing bullshit tomorrow most Republicans would be slobbering all over it.

But you still miss the point that every fact in this movie has been researched and backed up with public records and media sources. There were not more than two times in the movie you could pick out that cannot be proven one way or the other, and the fact remains that IF IT IS NOT TRUE, there is a way to prove that as well. It would take some work and research, but it can be done.

And with all the Republican discourse over the film I think if there were facts to disprove anything in the film, they would have done it by now. As we have all learned in the past 12 years in politics, answering and fighting back against false charges does not lend them credibility, it lends more credibility when you say nothing at all.

The Wall Street Journal a paper that leans hard to the right showed the current bush tax plan and the kerry tax plan. The difference didnt it start until single making $275,000 that person would pay $2500 more in taxes under Kerry. So this bullshit about how we will all be taxed to death is bullshit . Also the tax rate was higher under Clinton then both Kerry or Bush and the country saw more prosperity then in a longtime.