EviLGuY

Sounds like a bunch of hot air to me.. I seriously doubt they have anything that could reach the US.. unless they mean attacking troops in Iraq?

donnie

Offcourse I put a thumbsup smiley you fucking retard. Every fucking american childkiller over in Iraq (and the rest of the ME) should die.

And every fucking religios fanatic, like you and that idiot bush, should die

donnie

You don't have to have ICBM:s to reach USA. Al-qaida showed it can be done with other things...

Persius

good post

jimmyf

nope not 100 years, just the last 30 years.

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beergood

I think all fundamentalist religious nutbags should be put to the sword. If a government contains enough fanatics in power positions then it should be overthrown. Just like we're throwing Bush, Ashhahahahaha, Chaney, etc out in a few months.

taboo_dude

this sucks.... we are war between ourselves in regards to bush and kerry, invading iraq or not (I don't see it as a liberation any more)

war is over rated if you ask me Sometimes it is needed, but a majority of time it isn't.

Sometimes I feel like we were put here for one purpose and that was to see how long before we annihilate ourselves as a civilization.

Sad

edit....

holy shit look at my post count. not good.

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broke

How long until they have a delivery system?

theking

FYI...the teachings in the New Testament over rides the Old Testament via the word of Jesus Christ...whom some believe was God himself...as some believe the Trinity are one and the same.

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Webby

So? That's what a "nuclear deterrent" is - it stops assholes from thinking they have "rights" and "priviledges" over other countries.

Any country knows the use of nuclear material is a no-win for either side - it's a last resort.

The US has decided to adopted a pre-emptive strike policy and it follows other countries will match this. The laws of "it's OK for us, but not OK for them" to do it don't apply.

Iran is a country that has been fucked up *very* badly in the past by interference from the US. As a result it has gone thru "troubled times". There is no reason in Iran to trust the US - the track record speaks for itself.

Currently the US even refuses to speak to Iran officials - that also is not any form of "rational" behavior - all other countries at least communicate and many have normal relations with Iran.

One year ago there was a major arms fair in Terhan. Although the US has it's usual sanctions/bans/prohibited "lists", the US still had major representation there selling arms via subsidiary corps. As the organiser said, "Where there is a dollar, of course the US will attend". The hypocracy is deafening...

If you were the leader of any Middle East country at this time, would you be sitting on your ass and throwing bouquets of flowers at the US Ambassador? Don't think so

directfiesta

They are acquiring " yellow cakes " from an " african country" and have ordered aliminium paper tubes ... seems serious... Lest's invade... I mean " liberate "....

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theking

He would have been crushed in a single day if it were not for micro management of the military by civilians for polictical reasons.

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theking

I would still be "there" if my career had not been ended in the 1st Gulf War. I was medically discharged in '92 so if I had not been injured in '91 I would be in my 24th year with 6 to go.

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angelsofporn

You'll enjoy being a slave.

goBigtime

Don't forget about this...


October Surprise

October Surprise is the allegation that representatives of the 1980 Ronald Reagan presidential campaign arranged the Iran-Contra deal well in advance of the 1980 election where Ronald Reagan defeated Jimmy Carter. October Surprise is also the title of a book on the subject by Gary Sick. This usage of the term describes a situation where a Presidential incumbent uses his office to do something very popular at the last minute before election day, to increase his chances of getting reelected. Thus the alleged conspiracy was precisely to prevent an "October Surprise" that would have aided Carter, the incumbent, effected by postponing the release of the hostages held by Iran until after the election.

Proponents of the theory allege that representatives of the Reagan presidential campaign made a deal at two sets of meetings in July and August at the Ritz Hotel in Madrid with Iranians to delay the release of Americans held hostage in Iran until after the November 1980 presidential elections, so that Reagan's opponent, then President Jimmy Carter, whose team had been negotiating, wouldn't gain a popularity boost (an 'October Surprise') before election day. The allegations included a date-specific allegation that William Casey met with an Iranian cleric in Madrid, Spain, and much of the tardy investigations centered on whether, at the weekend in question he was actually at Bohemian Grove retreat in California. Though William Casey was probably in London following the alleged meetings, critical pages of his daybook diary were unaccountably missing when the investigators came to look for them over a decade later.

Carter was at the time dealing with the Iran hostage crisis and the hostile regime of the Ayatollah Khomeini. Those who aver that a deal was made allege that certain Republicans with CIA connections, including George H. W. Bush, arranged to have the hostages held through October, until Reagan could defeat Carter in early November, and then be released. The hostages were in fact released on the very day of Reagan's inauguration, twenty minutes after his inaugural address. The timing of the release did not spark much conversation regarding the October Surprise theory.

Two months earlier, in a campaigning interview Ronald Reagan had said that he had a "secret plan" involving the hostages. "My ideas require quiet diplomacy," he had responded when pressed, "where you don't have to say what it is you're thinking of doing."

A 1981 Congressional probe into the Reagan campaign's theft of White House briefing books on the eve of a presidential debate disclosed that Reagan campaign manager William Casey (later appointed as Director of Central Intelligence in the Reagan administration) was receiving highly classified reports on closely held Carter administration intelligence on the Carter campaign and the Democratic president's efforts to liberate the hostages.

A Public Broadcasting System's 'Frontline' documentary in 1990 brought the story unavoidably to the surface in detail. In 1991, while playing golf with George Bush in Palm Springs, Ronald Reagan gave reporters a sound bite. In 1980, he had "tried some things the other way," that is, to free the hostages, he told them. When pressed he said that the details remained "classified."

Separate House and Senate investigations were further delayed until 1992. William Casey, the alleged go-between, was dead by then, and it seemed impossible to account for all his moves during the summer of 1980, when he is said to have conferred with agents representing the Ayatollah Khomeini's government.

If the allegations are true, some believe that dealing with a hostile foreign government to achieve the defeat of a domestic administration would have been an act of treason.

According to Sick's analysis, Oliver North was the administration's scapegoat, taking responsibility in order to conceal the "treason" of Reagan and Bush.


Source: http://www.wordiq.com/definition/October_Surprise




IMO, it's just old friends doing business again.

theking

Educate me please...as I am unaware that North korea has been engaged in any acts of Global "terrorism". Maybe you can name a few incidents that have been sponsored by North Korea...or a single incident.

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theking

They have yet to test an ICBM and if they ever test an ICBM I suspect that North Korea will be taken down.

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WarChild

The Jews will light up Iran with American technology.

Make the cavemen glow.

theking

Richy boy...Richy boy...the US defeated Iraqi military forces in '91 with a few weeks of bombing and a 100 hour ground war. The second time around the US defeated Iraqi military forces in 3 weeks in a ground war. Hmm...the Iranian military forces could not defeat Iraqi military forces in...close to a decade. You really should stop listening to those voices in your head...Richy boy.

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theking

It is and they don't have.

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goBigtime

Defeated in 3 weeks?

I thought we were still fighting Iraqi military forces? Or are they not considered military now since we captured their leader and are 'disorganized' now or whatever? At what point do the iraqi military members become insurgents and terrorists?



Not that they ran a good show over there or anything .... I just like to try to check TheKing once in awhile ;)

Webby

goBigtime:

Familiar old name in a saga that caused other counties a shitload of trouble..... I mean North - can't say the degree of Reagan and Bush part.

North was a small name in a much bigger saga that started decades back when, once again, the US decided to overthrow a democratically elected foreign government. (Hell.. when you just think of that for one moment - some heads need to roll).

The US decided to replace the democratically elected government of Guatamala and install "their guy". The people of Guatamala objected and were killed in droves and buried in mass graves, imprisoned and the "usual" stuff that people do to each other now in prisons in Iraq.

The US government then lied to it's own citizens who ended up being killed in the middle of this shit - tho courts and government papers released in the last ten years clearly show the involvement at high levels of the then, US government and this has given "closure" to many Guatamalan and US families.

This was the start (hell - no it wasn't - but more later!) of a "Latin American" unrest that spread to Nicaragua and other countries and lasted decades. The cost is ... unbelievable in suffering and death.

North was in on the last segment of this crap and there is little doubt he never acted on his own behalf :-) I spoke last year with some people who were present at North's meetings on the border of Nicaragua. The background is .... amazing shit and has no place in history of any "reputable" country. Ask any US Ambassador who operated in the Latin American region and you will get a smile and "Do you think I was involved in that?"... The records confirm their involvment.

The start of this "US foreign policy" in Latin America goes back over 100 years when attempted "invasions" of several Latin American countries were instigated and repelled. These times are still in the minds of people in Latin America and, tho they are very friendly people, there is still a feeling of... "distrust" or whatever of "gringos" who appear to be regarded as the rapers of the earth.

It takes... often centuries to "cool" distrust... there is absoluelty nada hope of any US government in this century having any "trust" or meaningful relationship in the Middle East.

GatorB

You forgot the taking of American hostages and holding them for 444 days. they would have released them sooner but Reagan made a deal with Iran to hold off until the 1980 election so he could beat Jimmy Carter. That's why nobody "went down" in 1983.

Webby

PS... Guatamala is still going nowhere and is "not a place to be" - prior to that shit it was a peaceful country and no problem to anyone.

theking

When there is no longer an Airforce...Navy or Army that is resisting...is the first clue that the Military forces have been defeated...thus what ever resistence is left are those of "insurgents" and in the case of Iraq...foreign fighters that are considered to be "terrorists" from different "terrorist" orgs.

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broke

Amercans are evil and stupid.





Can we just get on with it?

goBigtime

No doubt we destroyed their airforce, navy and anything that's made of metal and moves.... if they are/were part of the Iraqi military, when are they stripped of this?

I would say (if they continue to fight) - when they die.



Think of it in reverse....




Think of it like this....



Another country invades us (the US), kills 80% of our military, overthrows our goverment & installs a new one.

Let's even say most (70%) of our civilians are happy with this change, despite huge amounts of civilian casualties.

Now there are still the ex-ruling 10% that oppose the new government (because it detests them), and the remaining 20% of our military that still answers and obeys that ex-ruling 10% (because it's their job).

So this remaining 20% military continues to fight off the newly installed goverment however they can....

OUR military, fighting off the invading country (regardless if we were an evil country or not)....

Are our GI's terrorists or insurgents at this point? Or are they still doing their job as members of the United States military?

Webby

theKing:

This US concept of "terrorist" has no bearing on the rest of the world and certainly not with many ... for all kinds of reasons... but with those who have had their families killed and want the US out of their land and back to Kentucky or somewhere.

Back to "basics" - WTF has the US being doing in the Middle East for over 30 years?? The US has no part in *anything* to do with the Middle East or anywhere else that is not US jurisdiction.

Labels such as "terrorist" are just that - a label.

broke

At that point, there is no US... let alone a US military.

goBigtime

Why not?

Assume in the example that there are still 10% civilians and 20% military that believe in and are fighting for the "old" US government.

As long as someone willingly says they are part of the old government, and is willing to fight for it, I would say it is war & they are military or patriots defending themselves against foreign invaders - until they give up, give in, or die.

You can't just instantly label them as terrorists or insurgents just because you positioned yourself to install a new government..... can you? (Heh... or maybe you can do whatever you want at that point?)


But again not saying they are good/innocent guys by any means...(Just like some people might say the people that run our country are not good guys)....

I'm just arguing that we obviously didn't win the ground war against that government and that country in 3 weeks as theKing suggested.

theking

In your opinion the US "The US has no part in *anything* to do with the Middle East or anywhere else that is not US jurisdiction." The US Government clearly disagrees with you opinion and has disagreed with that opinion for number of years. I view the word "terrorist" as being a label...thus that is why I always try to remember to enclose the word with quotes. I personally prefer the word enemy as whoever is trying to kill me or my countrymen...I view as being an enemy and no more than that.

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goBigtime

I have a feeling that the majority of the american public believes that there are more pressing DOMESTIC issues that should be addressed before dealing with anything foreign.

But I guess America is a big place and we consume and waste more than our share of resources, so we have to mess around with other countries all the time to keep things in check at home.

theking

The ground war was in fact won in 3 weeks because at that point no organized military forces such as the Airforce...Navy and Army was resisting...no uniformed military forces existed at this point and the US military had military control over the country of Iraq. Just because certain former members of the military choose to fight on they fight on as "insurgents" and not as members of any organized military force.

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goBigtime

As initially reported by who?

Enlightenment - $10

theking

In my life time...the Americqn public has always been concerned about Domestic issues and a percentage has always taken the position of "fuck foreign" issues and take an isolationist/fortress America point of view. The more intelligent members of the American public realize that foreign issuses have much to do with domestic issues and some kind of a balance has to be maintained between the two issues.

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Doctor Dre

Definitly . I hope US will attack Iran . Thoses fuckers threat people like shit and don't let them think .

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theking

Initially reported by General Tommy Franks...to the Secretary of Defense and to the President.

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goBigtime

Here's a better question/reply for your previous reply theKing....

Do you think we have ever fought a war or battles, with our guys out of uniform in 'stealth' mode?

It's a pretty common tactic when you are outnumbered or want to blend in no?

Does that make our guys who have done it (or are doing it now), rebel civilians or independent insurgents?

Or are they still undercover military?


Obviously the people who are fighting oppose us and the new government and have since day 1 of the ground WAR.

Call it what it is, that's all I'm saying.

The US is always wants to relabel things and is afraid to state the truth - to the point that it makes our own people and the rest of the world sick of our governments deception.

This isn't Nazi Germany, this isn't the USSR.

I thought we were supposed to tell it like it fuckin' is around here.

Webby

theKing:

It sure appears that there is is basic conflict/confusion within the US about their messing in the affairs of other nations.

The whole principle of a nation is that it is operating and managed by that nation - not by the US.

Do you mind if Chile expresses in interest in the management of North Carolina and Kentucky? They have every right to do so according to "US government policy".

Perhaps that is the underlying reason for the astoundingly notorious track record at relationships with other countries on the planet.

I don't have *any* enemies - never likely to have. That does include the US, despite you may have thoughts otherwise.

Perhaps if the foreign policy advisors visited a shrink and got straighten out a bit on what countries they "actually" have *any* authority in (read the US) and what countries they should stay the fuck out of - this may be an actual enormous benefit to the people of the US.

Do other counties have these split personality problems or so many enemies? Wonder why not....

goBigtime

All of these guys are pointing fingers of blame in every direction for the "bad information" regarding WMD and any other lie or stretched truth they get called on.

You'll have to do better than that.

Webby

goBigtime:

That is just a cesspool ... There are decent honorable men in the middle of that shit, but it's still a cesspool and they know it.

Overall... it's the most astounding failure so far this century - tho plenty time for more *s*

When you consider the resources available and the total irrelevance of them - it's too silly. We have massive budgets allocated to the largest "intelligence" system in the world, but they did not even have "feet on the ground" and, in the instance of Iraq, relied on information via UN weapons inspectors.

To compound that the specific reason for evicting UN weapons inspectors was that the Iraqi govt had repeatedly asked them to stop "spying" for the US. There were even complaints from the IAEA that this was complicating their inspections.

Neither the UN or IAEA is a intelligence service for the US - they represent the international community and clearly supercede anything to do with the US.

theking

You asked the question "As initially reported by who?" in reference to

"The ground war was in fact won in 3 weeks because at that point no organized military forces such as the Airforce...Navy and Army was resisting...no uniformed military forces existed at this point and the US military had military control over the country of Iraq."

It was in fact General Tommy Franks that reported to the Secretary of Defense and to the President that major combat operations were over and the Iraqi Military had was defeated. FYI it was also General Tommy Franks that recommended to the President that he announce this fact to the Nation...I do not know if he recommended that it be done from the deck of an Aircraft Carrier...I doubt it. This information is from General Franks own mouth during a recent interview that was aired by the media.

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goBigtime

The bottom line with the "intelligence" is:
they interpreted it, and acted upon it the way they wanted to for their agenda.

No big secret there at this point.

Webby

theKing:

King... does it matter if Franks said what and when on the deck of an aircraft carrier, in some "boardroom" or bunker?

The problem is not with Franks - the problem is the fundamentals or all "words" spoken by whoever have absolutely no credibiity and cannot be relied upon.

This is a common factor in almost all aspects of "annoucements to the public"and in dealings with foreign governments - nada credibility.

That is the reason there is no help coming to the US - It's a matter of clean up your own shit, then we may talk.

goBigtime

IMO - Tommy Franks is jonesing for martial law to be declared and to repeal the constitution.

Yeah, I trust him.

goBigtime

(he was talking about "all clear" Bush on the aircraft carrier)

... I'd rather point this out than let the theKing do it... that way he has to reply to the rest if he wants to reply to something

Skidoo

Webby

goBigtime:


Well.... yea!

If you take that as face value, which I have no problem with - that just makes the whole situation even more damning.

Personally... I'd like so see some trials and defendants :-)

This has cost many lives - not just those of US soliders acting in good faith, but many more lives in other countries.

Add to the the "shock and awe" that dumped tons of depleted uranium in both Iraq and Afghanistan and you have a "terror" that far outlives Saddam Hussein and all he had killed. A "terror" that is already affecting US soldiers and many thousands in Iraq. This will continue long after Hussein and Bush have disappeared from the face of this earth.

sixxxthsense

I'm not here to get into a heated debate with u fat fucks.

But from DAY 1 Iranians were sayign that the US will invade them aswell! Nothing new here, i just wanna see them strike in the US! So u fucker can feel safer, and dont be mad at them attacking you! Be mad at ur guvernment, they are the ones bringing these terrorist attacs to the USA!
They wouldn't attack u if ur guv didnt fuck shit up with them in the first place.

FUCK STOP WATCHING CNN! THINK LOGICALLY! FUcking TARDS!

theking

Intelligence collections are analyzed by the intel analyists and much of it is an interpretive art and not a science...and there ususally is never a 100% consensus among the analylists from the bottom to the top. The job of the intel agencies...as explained by the acting DCI in a hearing before Congress just a few days ago...is to pass along to the President as well as other parties that are privy to the information...which includes the House and Senate Intel committees...the consensus report of the analyists and the desenting comments of the analyists as well. It then is in the hands of the Administration as well as Congress to make their own interpretations of the information that has been proivided to them. Congressional Intel committees were privy to the same intel that was provided to the President and the Congress consenually agreed that based upon the intel Iraq possessed WMD's/WMD materials. FYI General Tommy Franks believed the intel that was provided to him.

It is a...now known...fact that the consensus intel was incorrect...and this has been confessed to by the involved intel agencies. The reason provided for this is...the intel agencies started off with a wrong assumption (based primarily upon the reports of the original inspectors when they left Iraq...I believe in '98). Having started off with a wrong assumption...every bit of intel that seemed to support the wrong assumption was used to enforce the wrong assumption. A major SNAFU syndrome.

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