porn4nobucks.com pulling a scam

[The Hun]

I saw this promoted on one of the galleries I got submitted. Bad tactics. It's sites like these that is oil on the fire of people that want to put adult porn to a stop. Blindly advetising dialers as being "free". I surely hope the FTC will crap all over this one. porn4nobucks.com will no longer be accepted as a sponsor on any galleries submitted to the Yellow Pages of course.

It's sad to see so many sites using tactics that get more and more agressive each time. And at first it seems to work, but it seems people forget that the real money is not in signups, but in renewals. If people keep screwing their visitors with bad content they soon will not click on any banners anymore.

There are people that think they can continue 'cause of all the newbies that come on the web every day. Sure, a lot of people become 18 every day, so every day there's a big chunk of people that visit the web for the first time. But there's about 18980 times more people that already have been visiting the web before. Statisticly targeting newbies is targeting 0,0005% of the audience. Right now that number might be higher 'cause people of all ages start using the web, but this number is what it's going to be in the long term. And the number right now isn't much higher... and even if it was a 1000 times higher than still newbies make up for half a percent of the total audience. I think it's smart tactics to make those half percent feel they're getting their money's worth. That way you'll get a 99.5% of a market that every now and then spends some money on things 'cause they know it's safe. The way things are going right now we'll end up with a 99.5% market that's too afraid a click on banners 'cause it will give 'em console hell or blind dialers, and that will NEVER trust ANY website with their creditcard details.

[Theo]

Useful stats Hun, my personal experience from friends is that they are afraid to use their credit cards online and fact is that many bad events support their fears. At first we had the fear of hackers, now we have the fear of cheaters. Illegal and anauthorized use of a CC # from an e-commerce co. doesn't differ from the crime that two guys commit when they robber a bank. Most probably the 2nd example will face the results of what they have done while the e-cheaters.....well ok.....things are happening like that every day......that's how e-business works. But,this is not the case.
Concerning consoles hell, the users that have spent more than 3 months frequently surfing the web will close not only the consoles, but probably the original window also. It's proven fact, that more than one console doesn't work, NEVER, I have read and listened many webmasters saying that. The only thing they succeeded were to loose the surfers, and most of them continue to use them!

[The Hun]

Soul... the bad part is that they do seem to work at first... People get signups from the third or fourth consoles. But I'm pretty sure they would make double the signups in time if they wouldn't pull people in consoles. I added a lot of sponsors to my blacklist for pulling consoles or other too agressive marketing techniques. At first I was afraid that I wouldn't have enough galleries left, but that fear didn't turn out to be needed...

It's sad to see people advertise to agressively towards people. On top of this very page there's cheattraffic. "Make Big Money Using Blind Links"... Somehow that doesn't seem very respectful of any visitors. And I'm 100% that that isn't the way to make a long prospering industry. The number of newbies coming to the web is decreasing. Yet most people tagret these newbies... Time to change plans people. If you still want to make money tomorrow that is...

[Badgurl]

I wonder how many rebills we get, compared to the "buy the trial and then cancel" types...

off the people who click the first banner cuz they're interested...and the ones that finally give up and hand over there wallet..just to make the bad windows go away..

Hmmmm..interesting market data for all you wall street types...

or, have I unleased a lion..

But, back to the dilemna at hand...
Hun...if one sponsor stops doing it..another will "pop up" doing the same thing...If you will excuse the pun, Hun...

so the sponsor taking the high road will be all frustrated and jealous and stuff when the other "evil empire" makes more money than they do.

Are you going to take the first step? That is to say..not allow advertising to sponsors that use a lot of pop ups and tricks..on your own pages? Like, if they offer you x dollars to advertise there webmaster program...and sponsor little guy offers you waaaaayyyy less for the same space..

What's ya gonna do, big guy?

If you choose lil sponsor who plays nice nice..I got 100 bucks to pay on advertising with ya this month?

I really, really hate exit consoles and all that crap...

I get into fights about it with other webmasters, who say I "baby" my surfers...

*shrugs* hard place and rock...with just lil ol' me in the middle..

so, I take the high ground, and the webmaster who uses em, splashes me with mud whilst driving by in his viper, while I'm waiting in line at the soup kitchen...

[TFCash]

Hun -

So why is it that you still list sites like this ??
http://www.freepornopasses.com/bd/Hun4.htm

Listed 3rd from the top on June 5th.

has this sponsor: http://www.free-xxx-passes.com/napsterboy.htm

Has a popup console that loads up like 3 times as you try to back out.


Tim

[TheWatcher]

Originally posted by hardcorehosting:
Hun -

So why is it that you still list sites like this ??
http://www.freepornopasses.com/bd/Hun4.htm

Listed 3rd from the top on June 5th.

has this sponsor: http://www.free-xxx-passes.com/napsterboy.htm

Has a popup console that loads up like 3 times as you try to back out.


Tim

And i just visted those thinks and it crashed my browser trying to close the many pop-ups! ugh!




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Peace will come, just kill them all...

[x3m]

I agree that it's a good long-term decision not to slap people with consoles and keep them surfing for porn safely without fear of being tricked.

I do believe if someone signed up for a good porn site like those run by MaxCash and ARS will most likely to keep surfing for porn and keep signing up for paysites and thus it's a bad practice to make surfers like that angry catching those popups,

but...

As it was expressed by a lot of pay site and affiliate program operators, it is nearly impossible for them to keep paying us $35-40 per signup if they can't use consoles on their sites.

So, maybe consoles on paysites are not that bad for this business and I hope that the Hun will change his mind on good sponsors like ARS.

[The Hun]

X3m... they can express all they want, it's just not true. The problem is that people don't think about what they're doing anymore. All they do is add consoles and ads to make more money. "If you make 100 USD on one banner, two banners must do 200". And that's not true. There's a curve for this. Right now sites are going over the limit. Rules that apply to the "real world" also apply to the Internet. Many sites seem to forget there's people on the other side of the line using these sites. And people aren't stupid.

[x3m]

This was posted on ARS's site today:

"We will be implementing a new console strategy over the next few days. There will be some changes in the console chain, however, console sign ups for your accounts will still be tracked as always."

... but I don't know if it's a good or a bad news.

[The Hun]

Have to keep an eye on that one. They're an honest group of people. They pay and they pay on time. Never heard complaints from people being rebilled or tricked in to anything. I'd love to take 'em off the list...

[ElvisManson]

Hun,

Where do i find a copy of your Black List?

Thanks..

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www.pythonvideo.com
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[ldinternet]

Sometimes I think that the Hun takes his work just a little TOO seriously.

Then I remember that he makes more money than I do.

[Badgurl]

I didn't get my $100 a month advertising deal either.

[new_bie]

People who try to cheat others only to make a buck or two are the lowest scum you can find! They are total lamers.

However they make a lot of FAST CASH, which means that there will be a big inflow and then a big STOP. Cheaters and lamers will always be around and they only ruin things for the good guys.

I hate dailers, and now there are dialers that seem to be free. Biggest scam ever!!

If people want free porn go to download.com and search peer-to-peer or file sharing. Dont get scamed be smart.

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~!@#$%^&*()_+

[dial2niche]

Hello everybody,

I do not post much but I would like to have my say in this thread

I can agree with most of what is being said here.

Advertising a dialer as free is not only fraud, it is plain stupid the thing is not free and should not be advertised as free period! Every webmaster doing that is hurting himself, the industry as a whole and should be dumped A.S.A.P.

Just promote a dialer on a gallery like any other sponsor, highlight the advantages with banners and textlinks, but NEVER promise anything that it is not.

You will still make plenty of money and you will give this business a better reputation in te proces.

As for ripping a surfer off I have to disagree. A dialer provides a completely different service then CC sponsors do

Dialers provide:
Faster acces through dialup
Better quality content(Well the good ones do: Dialerking, GIB, Telcoweb, Niteline etc..)
Anonimous login: nothing is logged(again with the good dialers)
An alternative for those that do not wish to use credit cards online(and me being ripped off just last week is the perfect proof it's not safe to use a CC online yet.)

Sure the cost is more but you get more also.

Add to that the fact that the avarage surfer only spends 20 minutes a month on a site(dialer or CC)

It is my opinion that when you take all the above into account you can not call dialers by themselves a ripoff but you sure can call some webmasters that abuse them rip off artists.

Thanks for letting me rant

Dial2niche



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Dial2niche targetted niche dialers

[joris]

Hun,

You seem to be one of *very* few people thinking long term in this business.

I get depressed just looking for free sites to trade traffic with... I don't need to tell any of you that blind links, pop-ups, false advertising and various other attempts of cheating surfers out of their money are the norm rather than the exception.

I think it takes a more responsible attitude for a field of business to survive in the long run. The "little guys" (like me) are not likely to think beyond tomorrow, so it would really take the "big guys" to make a stand here. I don't see this happening though, as these same big guys owe much of their success to their own aggressive marketing techniques. Also others would be happy to step in.

The net is pretty unregulated by nature, so I'm not sure if this would work... but maybe some sort of regulation would be the best solution. A powerful independent third party would also be very welcome to help against cheating sponsors.

But let me play the devils advocate here for a while: there is more free porn out there than ever before. If you make it easy for surfers to find lots of good content with only subtle advertising, would they really see any point in joining a pay site?

[Theo]

dial2niche: "Add to that the fact that the average surfer only spends 20 minutes a month on a site(dialer or CC) ".

For sure this is not a fact for CC members.
But it was the perfect sentence to convience few people that dialers are better than CC memberships :-) Anyway, I agree that if dialers are advertised in a correct way there's nothing bad about them. It all has to do with "educated" surfers. Concerning children my finger points to parents.

[CDSmith]

Originally posted by joris:

Hun,

You seem to be one of *very* few people thinking long term in this business.

Agreed!
It's too bad that the nun doesn't start a link's page so some of us that run clean sites can get some hits that way too. I bet if he did, a bazillion webmasters would instantly clean up their shitty popup-ridden messes in order to get listed.
"I have a dream"
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CD
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[CDSmith]

Damn, did I just call him "the nun"????

LOL!! Sorry mr Hun

<font face="Arial">___________
CD
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[wolfshade]

Soul Rebel,

I wasn't going to post on this thread, but when it comes to studies in the adult surfer's behaviour I spent a considerable amount of time and money trying to grasp just that, and therefor feel the need to respond

I have to agree with Dial2niche even with paysites the avarage time spent is about 20 minutes. Granted there are exceptions but on avarage it's 20 minutes.

While I'm posting there's one thing I'm wondering about:

Hun if you dislike their advertising so much(And I agree with you don't get me wrong) why not file a complaint with the FTC yourself? I know I just reported them

CDSmith,

I think you're on to something here, maybe we should team up and start The Nun's infernal pages?

My 2 cents a minute,
Wolfshade


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[Theo]

Wolfshade:"I have to agree with Dial2niche even with paysites the avarage time spent is about 20 minutes. Granted there are exceptions but on avarage it's 20 minutes."
If this is the case (which I don't think) shame on users! Web designers spend innumerable hours to build a paysite and they use it for 20min only! They should show some respect :-)

[The Hun]

Dial2niche:

You said: Dialers provide:
"Faster acces through dialup"

Not true... Paysites can be accessed with the same kind of connections and even through cable/ADSL/LAN or whatever... A dial is not faster than the way people are already connected to the web. In cable it's even the opposite.

"Better quality content(Well the good ones do: Dialerking, GIB, Telcoweb, Niteline etc..)"

Not true again. Behind a dialer there's a paysite. It can offer access through CC and/or a dialer, which means a dialer is an alternative to get on the same site. Content behind a dialer is of course not better by definition...

"Anonimous login: nothing is logged(again with the good dialers)"

Again, not true. A bill will drop on your door-math. Which means it is EXACTLY possible to see who'd dialing in. If you run a dialer you can get a list of phonenumbers from the telco you're working with. People have to be billed, so people have to be known. By home phone number in this case.


"An alternative for those that do not wish to use credit cards online(and me being ripped off just last week is the perfect proof it's not safe to use a CC online yet.):"

There are safe cards, but this one I have to grant you ;-)... Although I don't see how some of the 3+ USD dialers are an alternative for a 30 USD signup. That signup could be paid for with a check, which gives you access for a month for 30 bucks instead of 10 minutes through a dialer. Dialer prices are too high. Period.

But I agree with you on the message you were bringing across. Do not advertise anything for what it's not. If people know they pay 3 bucks a minute and still use it, then there's no problem. Many dialer programs think that "letting people know it's 3 dollars a minute" means stuffing the prices away somewhere deep in the small print...

Wolfshare. That's indeed a good idea... Though I've not been had by any of these sites myself. I'll have to contact those guys.

[wolfshade]

Hun,

Because I run a dialer program too, I think I can respond to your post:

I have to correct you on a few statements:

faster connections through a dialer.

This is true when you consider the following:
When you acces a site from large dialer providers as GIB, Niteline or DialerKing connecting through that dialer is the only way to get to the site. This in turn means you're going through lines which are less crowded then the regular overloaded connections on the "regular" internet.
This automatically keeps the sites faster. I have to agree though that broadband connections(Cable, DSL, etc..)are stil much faster, but I see his point.

Better quality content:

Because of the higher revenue it's possible to offer more content and of a higher quality. Also it's in the dialer provider's best interest to offer more then a regular paysite in order to keep surfers using the dialer. It's perfect logic.

I have to agree with you on the logging though, but I think that was not what D2N(yeah I'm lazy) meant. I think he was referring to no cookies, IP traces etc.... I mean let's face it, aware people like ourselves can protect ourselves from those things but the unaware surfer...... let's not even go there

I also agree that it's a decision wether to offer acces through a dialer or accept CC's but I do not think it is our place to determine wether that's right or wrong. We can have and voice our opinions, but we have no right to tell people they should provide CC acces and I think it's for a large part the general blacklisting on traffic resources like TGP's that's forcing webmasters to the often devious ways to market the dialer. I strongly believe that if TGP's where not acting so damn righteous(and it's a false righteousness at that they just want to make sure they make the most $$$) and did not pretend their freeloading surfers have to be taken by the hand and protected above and beyond the call of "duty" the advertising would be A LOT LESS agressive then it is today.

I said it before but to be clear I state it again Hun your traffic is the one exception to that rule, yours actualy converts and I can't say that from the other TGP's and I have submitted to them all, so don't be offended by the above it's not directed at you.

My 2 cents a minute

Wolfshade




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