is this dishonest? - GoFuckYourself.com

12clicks · 05-24-2001, 07:29 AM

if you're trading traffic with people and you cull out all of your korean, chinese, suadi arabian, etc traffic and send THAT to the guys you're trading with, wouldn't that be cheating them since there is almost ZERO chance of getting a signup with them?

deluxe · 05-24-2001, 07:39 AM

hm, i wouldn't call it cheating, but it's immoral...

if you don't want them doing it to you, don't do it to them

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12clicks · 05-24-2001, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by deluxe:
hm, i wouldn't call it cheating, but it's immoral...

if you don't want them doing it to you, don't do it to them

I'm talking about someone else. I, of course, consider it cheating.

ElvisManson · 05-24-2001, 07:46 AM

Definitely cheating.......

Flush that account!!

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Techie Media · 05-24-2001, 10:09 AM

Yes thats cheating.. There just sending you clicks to a counter, with Little to no chance of any productivity coming from the clicks... Thats bull shit..

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Hypo · 05-24-2001, 10:18 AM

Cheating is when you break the rules. Unethical is when you do what you shouldn't.

Incognito · 05-24-2001, 10:22 AM

Actually that is worse than cheating.
Such traffic may bring chargebacks and You wont know it till 3 monthes pass (exactly that long approximately real fraudelent chargebacks appear at their most).

Ask webmasters from those countries what do they tell those who send THEM traffic from their own country.

ldinternet · 05-24-2001, 11:12 AM

I see tens of thousands of Scandanavian surfers every week - straight to my circle jerk sites. Most of these guys are pretty click happy since they understand jack shit English, but they won't fucken buy anything. I've tried per signup, click proggies, partnership, for free and mail boxes - and I can make about $10 off of 40,000 of these guys.

I don't want that traffic hanging about on my site sucking up my bandwidth! Fuck it, send it to someone else! So basically, they get circle jerked. When you've got so much shitty traffic, you can't help but get rid of it. What can I put on the site? I could write "don't click anything if you are Finnish" in their language, but fuck it, I'll exchange them for good surfers. It's common sense. I don't trade based on nationality, but my sites that get the foreign traffic? They're all circle jerk sites.

If I don't send them to link trades, what the fuck am I going to do with it? I know that I get foreign traffic in from my partner sites, I just send different foreign traffic back. It's real shit hole traffic, and we're in this biz to make money. I'm not cheating anyone as I'm not trading based on nationality - and it's through no fault of my own if my sites have such shit sucking traffic. Let them suck shit from someone else, I don't want to pay for them to jerk off for free, I'm in this biz to make money. If they don't at least click my sponsors, then I'll trade them one way or another.

[This message has been edited by ldinternet (edited 05-24-2001).]

skoopy · 05-24-2001, 01:10 PM

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

wolfshade · 05-24-2001, 01:44 PM

Running them through a dialer comes to mind

Wolfshade

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Sickdick · 05-24-2001, 02:14 PM

Idinternet, any way I can buy your norwegian, swedish and danish traffic?

Warphead · 05-24-2001, 02:24 PM

I agree with you 12clicks, it's not stated anywhere in the rules, but a trade is supposed to be "generic" traffic. If someone is directing it according to where it's from or anything like that, that's no different than sending someone exit traffic.

mukoh · 05-24-2001, 02:54 PM

Here is the thing. THis discussion must still burn in 12 clicks head since like 4 days ago now. When i raised it on AWI.
Why send korean surfers to sponsors, if you are a strictly free site, but have the possibility to send it to your own CJ, toplist, or traffic generating partners. You are looking at generating clicks RIGHT? If you send that surfer and he will keep clicking whats wrong with that? We aren't here just after signups we are here to generate more traffic.

MelissaD · 05-24-2001, 05:58 PM

Besides being dishonest and immoral how about just plain stupid? Why waste the traffic when you can send it to places that can convert it.

As far as you European traffic there is no third party processor that can process 88% of the European traffic but there are programs that run through European banks that can, if you can't get the sign up why not send it some place else and get at least 50% of it?

Dishonesty and stupidity usually go hand in hand.

MelissaD
BillinGuru.com

Are you getting all the bang you can out of your traffic?

UnseenWorld · 05-24-2001, 06:06 PM

Ethical discussions shouldn't revolve around contractual obligations, which is a legal matter. An ethical discussion should revolve around fairness of treatment. The idea behind the ethical aspect of business relations has to do with mutuality. Is the exchange fair and even in both parties' assessment? I think the answer in this case is patently obvious.

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12clicks · 05-25-2001, 05:04 AM

the cheater speaks:

Quote:

Originally posted by mukoh:
Here is the thing. THis discussion must still burn in 12 clicks head since like 4 days ago now. When i raised it on AWI.
Why send korean surfers to sponsors, if you are a strictly free site, but have the possibility to send it to your own CJ, toplist, or traffic generating partners. You are looking at generating clicks RIGHT? If you send that surfer and he will keep clicking whats wrong with that? We aren't here just after signups we are here to generate more traffic.

did this idiot really just say,"We aren't here just after signups we are here to generate more traffic." ?
mukoo, if you're here to generate more traffic, then go ahead and TAKE that traffic. No one wants it including you, sending it to a trade is no different than passing counterfit money.

[This message has been edited by 12clicks (edited 05-25-2001).]

jeanette · 05-25-2001, 07:42 AM

I'd say its dishonest. When making a trade you assume you're going to be getting traffic you can use, a reasonable assumption all things considered. If I'm sending traffic someone can use, I expect it in return.

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wolfshade · 05-25-2001, 07:45 AM

I say it's wrong but not for the origin of the traffic.

Where do you people get the idea that traffic is worthless?

And if you realy think that, send it to me

Wolfshade

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12clicks · 05-25-2001, 08:27 AM

don't make me smack you wolfman.

if you've decided that a portion of your traffic can't make you money so you take that portion and send it to someone else who's (1) trying to make money with it and (2) sending you back traffic that CAN have money made off it, you're an unscrupulous moron.

Like it or not, this business still revolves around credit cards. If you're sending traffic to your trades that has a low probability of CC use (and this is your only criteria for separating traffic) you're nothing better than a thief.

Muff · 05-25-2001, 08:35 AM

If People are using this method to send to trades I doubt very much another trade script will count the traffic with the refferer let alone yours counting the in. except possibly cjpro sites and afew oters.

If the .jp or whatever surfer comes and is immediatley bounced to your out script his browser wont have enough time to pick up your reffering url so therefore your trade partner will count it as no refferer traffic.

am I wrong?

so unless you are using cjpro where it uses defined urls then you are getting free crap traffic

Muff

12clicks · 05-25-2001, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Muff:
If People are using this method to send to trades I doubt very much another trade script will count the traffic with the refferer let alone yours counting the in. except possibly cjpro sites and afew oters.

If the .jp or whatever surfer comes and is immediatley bounced to your out script his browser wont have enough time to pick up your reffering url so therefore your trade partner will count it as no refferer traffic.

am I wrong?

so unless you are using cjpro where it uses defined urls then you are getting free crap traffic

Muff

not true.

its simple to do.

12clicks · 05-25-2001, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Muff:
If People are using this method to send to trades I doubt very much another trade script will count the traffic with the refferer let alone yours counting the in. except possibly cjpro sites and afew oters.

If the .jp or whatever surfer comes and is immediatley bounced to your out script his browser wont have enough time to pick up your reffering url so therefore your trade partner will count it as no refferer traffic.

am I wrong?

so unless you are using cjpro where it uses defined urls then you are getting free crap traffic

Muff

not true.

its simple to do.

Lush · 05-25-2001, 11:12 AM

Also kinda stupid for him to do to his surfers.

I wouldn't like being sent to foreign sites. How would you read the links?

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ldinternet · 05-25-2001, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sickdick:
Idinternet, any way I can buy your norwegian, swedish and danish traffic?

Sorry Sickdick... it is mostly from Finland. And really, it's worth shit. I'm barely breaking even with it over bandwidth costs, but I'm still making a profit. If I stop being able to make a profit from it... I'll let some other webmaster sample it. If they like it... they can show me the money.

wolfshade · 05-25-2001, 01:24 PM

Hey 12clicks now ya wanna smack me when I agree with ya? *LOL*

What I said was it is wrong to only send what someone considers to be crap traffic.

I agree with everybody about that inclusing you

I'm just raising a point saying that I do not believe the the traffic origins given in the example is crap because of it's origin it just requires a different approach.

Kinda like TGP traffic actualy*LOL*

Wolfshade

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wiZd0m · 05-25-2001, 01:49 PM

Maybe it's time to upgrade your CJ-2 to CJ-3 ? That way you can include traffic origin into your agregated data ... What ever new trade rules you want and voila. Everyone is happy again...

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SNOW · 05-25-2001, 04:10 PM

Wolfshade
Nobody wants a opinion from a boadwhore queen..

05-24-2001, 07:29 AM	#1
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,794	is this dishonest? if you're trading traffic with people and you cull out all of your korean, chinese, suadi arabian, etc traffic and send THAT to the guys you're trading with, wouldn't that be cheating them since there is almost ZERO chance of getting a signup with them?

05-24-2001, 07:39 AM	#2
deluxe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,434	hm, i wouldn't call it cheating, but it's immoral... if you don't want them doing it to you, don't do it to them ------------------ FreeNetPasses - free join AVS $1 per free sign up [email protected] 77717734

05-24-2001, 07:46 AM	#4
ElvisManson Looking California Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 5,476	Definitely cheating....... Flush that account!! ------------------ Make Money. Period. www.pythonvideo.com www.dollarmachine.com

05-24-2001, 10:09 AM	#5
Techie Media Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,092	Yes thats cheating.. There just sending you clicks to a counter, with Little to no chance of any productivity coming from the clicks... Thats bull shit.. ------------------ Smile and Be Happy Lightning Free Hosting Girls Host

05-24-2001, 10:18 AM	#6
Hypo So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 1,104	Cheating is when you break the rules. Unethical is when you do what you shouldn't.

05-24-2001, 10:22 AM	#7
Incognito Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: RU Posts: 371	Actually that is worse than cheating. Such traffic may bring chargebacks and You wont know it till 3 monthes pass (exactly that long approximately real fraudelent chargebacks appear at their most). Ask webmasters from those countries what do they tell those who send THEM traffic from their own country.

05-24-2001, 11:12 AM	#8
ldinternet Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 8,245	I see tens of thousands of Scandanavian surfers every week - straight to my circle jerk sites. Most of these guys are pretty click happy since they understand jack shit English, but they won't fucken buy anything. I've tried per signup, click proggies, partnership, for free and mail boxes - and I can make about $10 off of 40,000 of these guys. I don't want that traffic hanging about on my site sucking up my bandwidth! Fuck it, send it to someone else! So basically, they get circle jerked. When you've got so much shitty traffic, you can't help but get rid of it. What can I put on the site? I could write "don't click anything if you are Finnish" in their language, but fuck it, I'll exchange them for good surfers. It's common sense. I don't trade based on nationality, but my sites that get the foreign traffic? They're all circle jerk sites. If I don't send them to link trades, what the fuck am I going to do with it? I know that I get foreign traffic in from my partner sites, I just send different foreign traffic back. It's real shit hole traffic, and we're in this biz to make money. I'm not cheating anyone as I'm not trading based on nationality - and it's through no fault of my own if my sites have such shit sucking traffic. Let them suck shit from someone else, I don't want to pay for them to jerk off for free, I'm in this biz to make money. If they don't at least click my sponsors, then I'll trade them one way or another. [This message has been edited by ldinternet (edited 05-24-2001).]

05-24-2001, 01:10 PM	#9
skoopy Registered User Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 23	Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

05-24-2001, 01:44 PM	#10
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Running them through a dialer comes to mind Wolfshade ------------------ Get paid per minute! Dialerclopedia

05-24-2001, 02:14 PM	#11
Sickdick Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Home Posts: 243	Idinternet, any way I can buy your norwegian, swedish and danish traffic?

05-24-2001, 02:24 PM	#12
Warphead Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kiss my yankee dick. Posts: 994	I agree with you 12clicks, it's not stated anywhere in the rules, but a trade is supposed to be "generic" traffic. If someone is directing it according to where it's from or anything like that, that's no different than sending someone exit traffic.

05-24-2001, 02:54 PM	#13
mukoh Registered User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 51	Here is the thing. THis discussion must still burn in 12 clicks head since like 4 days ago now. When i raised it on AWI. Why send korean surfers to sponsors, if you are a strictly free site, but have the possibility to send it to your own CJ, toplist, or traffic generating partners. You are looking at generating clicks RIGHT? If you send that surfer and he will keep clicking whats wrong with that? We aren't here just after signups we are here to generate more traffic.

05-24-2001, 05:58 PM	#14
MelissaD Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 155	Besides being dishonest and immoral how about just plain stupid? Why waste the traffic when you can send it to places that can convert it. As far as you European traffic there is no third party processor that can process 88% of the European traffic but there are programs that run through European banks that can, if you can't get the sign up why not send it some place else and get at least 50% of it? Dishonesty and stupidity usually go hand in hand. MelissaD BillinGuru.com Are you getting all the bang you can out of your traffic?

05-24-2001, 06:06 PM	#15
UnseenWorld Confirmed User Join Date: May 2001 Location: Portland, OR, USA Posts: 5,279	Ethical discussions shouldn't revolve around contractual obligations, which is a legal matter. An ethical discussion should revolve around fairness of treatment. The idea behind the ethical aspect of business relations has to do with mutuality. Is the exchange fair and even in both parties' assessment? I think the answer in this case is patently obvious. ------------------ Producer of truly original teen/young woman-oriented adult content at Wonders of the Unseen World

05-25-2001, 07:42 AM	#17
jeanette Registered User Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 37	I'd say its dishonest. When making a trade you assume you're going to be getting traffic you can use, a reasonable assumption all things considered. If I'm sending traffic someone can use, I expect it in return. ------------------ ----------------------- Free hosting tgp posting allowed at http://www.pornouniverse.net

05-25-2001, 07:45 AM	#18
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	I say it's wrong but not for the origin of the traffic. Where do you people get the idea that traffic is worthless? And if you realy think that, send it to me Wolfshade ------------------ Get paid per minute! Dialerclopedia

05-25-2001, 08:27 AM	#19
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,794	don't make me smack you wolfman. if you've decided that a portion of your traffic can't make you money so you take that portion and send it to someone else who's (1) trying to make money with it and (2) sending you back traffic that CAN have money made off it, you're an unscrupulous moron. Like it or not, this business still revolves around credit cards. If you're sending traffic to your trades that has a low probability of CC use (and this is your only criteria for separating traffic) you're nothing better than a thief.

05-25-2001, 08:35 AM	#20
Muff Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Toronto Posts: 1,782	If People are using this method to send to trades I doubt very much another trade script will count the traffic with the refferer let alone yours counting the in. except possibly cjpro sites and afew oters. If the .jp or whatever surfer comes and is immediatley bounced to your out script his browser wont have enough time to pick up your reffering url so therefore your trade partner will count it as no refferer traffic. am I wrong? so unless you are using cjpro where it uses defined urls then you are getting free crap traffic Muff

05-25-2001, 11:12 AM	#23
Lush Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Midvale, Utah, USA Posts: 230	Also kinda stupid for him to do to his surfers. I wouldn't like being sent to foreign sites. How would you read the links? ------------------ <A HREF="http://www.postforcash.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.postforcash.com </A>Finally, your galleries are paying you! Free content, while getting paid. What a concept!

05-25-2001, 01:24 PM	#25
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	Hey 12clicks now ya wanna smack me when I agree with ya? LOL What I said was it is wrong to only send what someone considers to be crap traffic. I agree with everybody about that inclusing you I'm just raising a point saying that I do not believe the the traffic origins given in the example is crap because of it's origin it just requires a different approach. Kinda like TGP traffic actualyLOL Wolfshade ------------------ Get paid per minute! Dialerclopedia

05-25-2001, 01:49 PM	#26
wiZd0m Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Montreal Posts: 1,526	Maybe it's time to upgrade your CJ-2 to CJ-3 ? That way you can include traffic origin into your agregated data ... What ever new trade rules you want and voila. Everyone is happy again... ------------------ wiZd0m Fortune Pussy Adult Links

05-25-2001, 04:10 PM	#27
SNOW Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 3,963	Wolfshade Nobody wants a opinion from a boadwhore queen..