Useful Martial Arts - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

Ian_GDM · 08-12-2004, 03:47 PM

BJJ/Wrestling and MT/Boxing are the only arts with a substantial amount of evidence supporting their effectiveness. Other arts rely on questionable "My teachers brothers friends cousin kicked so-and-so's ass" stories. Basically you are making a large investment of time in a discipline that has no proof that that investment will have any return.

I'm a lean 230 with 12 years of powerlifting/highland games training 2 years of MT and four years of BJJ under Renzo Gracie and I have NEVER "needed" that training. I've used it, but that mythical unarmed one-on-one unavoidable confrontation with their girlfriend watching that martial artists have wet dreams about just does not occur very often in real life.

Single unarmed combat is a social convention of a very small portion of our population. I go to Asian parties here in NYC occasionally and I am very polite, eight 140lb Asian dudes can kick my ass no problem. With other demograpics I'd be stabbed or shot if I started trouble. In fact if I wanted to get into a one on one fight I'd probably have to hop on a train to the Upper East Side and find some other young white guys who share that background in order to manage it. Why would most people fight me one on one? That's a way to massage your ego not teach someone a lesson. Someone really needs to be hurt you don't challenge him to fisticuffs you kick him down a flight of stairs, pour a beer on him and let him explain it to the police.

Considering the years and thousands of dollars spent training I cannot think of any discipline with a worse return. Spend all that time and money to protect the $100 in my wallet from crazy homeless dude with a knife? So I can be a dickhead and beat someone up for looking at my girl or spilling a drink on me? Martial arts only have a proven track record when it comes to single unarmed combat, nearly every time I have seen that ocurr both participates were being egotistical dickheads and getting carried away over something that could have been fixed with an apogly, a few beers and a handshake.

There are better ways than martial arts to get in shape, martial arts are expensive insurance against a usually entirely avoidable and statistically very rare danger. The only reason I can think of to train them is because they are fun and the competition is enjoyable. At which point the effectiveness of various arts is a moot point just how much you enjoy them.

James White · 08-12-2004, 03:50 PM

Taser.

scardog · 08-12-2004, 04:28 PM

Quote:

And if you'll recall my previous post I chastised Seagal for actively trying to make his sensei look bad.

How does resisting a technique make the sensei look bad? Because it doesn't work as well without a willing uke.

I'm not cyber challenging you to a duel to the death. I know you weren't doing the same. They don't allow buddies to crack your skull with bats, knives and guns in NHB.

The street is easier, if you are talking about a baseball fight. I'm talking about self defense.

scardog · 08-12-2004, 05:40 PM

Quote:

There are better ways than martial arts to get in shape, martial arts are expensive insurance against a usually entirely avoidable and statistically very rare danger. The only reason I can think of to train them is because they are fun and the competition is enjoyable. At which point the effectiveness of various arts is a moot point just how much you enjoy them

I agree 100%. Martial arts are a tool in the arsenal. Being a trained fighter gives you an edge over an untrained fighter. The edge can be slight and offset by other factors, but it's just another tool. Can you talk your way out of trouble? Can you use lethal defensive tools? Martial arts is like the putter and pitching wedge in your overall self defense golf bag IMO.

mcmc · 08-12-2004, 05:44 PM

Wrestling ??? Are you serious ???

cyberpunk · 08-12-2004, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Elli
I learned "The Knee of Vengeance" in my self defence class.

I've been waiting for years to use it on someone. So far noone has stepped up to the plate. (knock on wood)

Elli

A kenpo school.. tracy system perhaps?

ModelPerfect · 08-12-2004, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by scardog
How does resisting a technique make the sensei look bad? Because it doesn't work as well without a willing uke.

I'm not cyber challenging you to a duel to the death. I know you weren't doing the same. They don't allow buddies to crack your skull with bats, knives and guns in NHB.

The street is easier, if you are talking about a baseball fight. I'm talking about self defense.

2 Different Aikido styles, same uke, same resistance. He made his Sensei look bad by resisting; he did not make mine look bad. By extrapolation, you make the point that Seagal is from a bad style because his sensei required his willing assistance. You already know I don't think much of Seagal, but I don't think this proves anything. Heck, if I knew Renzo Gracie was about to put an ude juji gatame on me, I could make it considerably more difficult for him to get...I may not actually stop him, but it wouldn't make spectators think he got the technique effortlessly. Likewise, if Seagal knew what his sensei was about to do, then he could resist and degrade the image his sensei hoped to portray. Whether I agree with the whole "image" thing or not isn't the point...the point is a martial artist must have respect for his teacher, and this is simply not showing that respect.

I won't comment about the street thing, because what I say comes from experience, and I highly doubt it'll accomplish anything but another ongoing debate.

ModelPerfect · 08-12-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ian_GDM
There are better ways than martial arts to get in shape, martial arts are expensive insurance against a usually entirely avoidable and statistically very rare danger. The only reason I can think of to train them is because they are fun and the competition is enjoyable. At which point the effectiveness of various arts is a moot point just how much you enjoy them.

I think martial arts are far more useful than for just that "entirely avoidable and statistically very rare danger". Whereas Scardog stated martial arts are just a small part of a physical situation, I think the physical situation is just a small part of the martial arts. BUT, we all seem to have a very similar rationale that the best self-defense will always be avoidance.

dig420 · 08-12-2004, 08:09 PM

In my experience, most fights are not gangfights. They are the result of someone in your circle of acquaintance hurling an unforgivable insult, or getting into your face so much that you're forced to do something about it on the spot. Or they fucked your girl without permission and without taping it for you. Or it's a drunk frat boy at a bar or someone else's drunk friend at a party. Or someone you know who's been talking too much smack.

I was in a LOT of fights when I was (much) younger, and 90% of the time it was a one on one confrontation for intensely personal reasons. All this bullshit about BJJ not being the best because you can't whip 10 men at once with it is just bullshit. There is no art that is better for multiple opponents because NO art will allow you to whip multiple committed opponents attacking all at once. Nothing except scared opponents is going to help you in that situation, you just have to start acting so crazy that they're afraid to bumrush you lol....

Even in the case of multiple opponents, with BJJ at least if you do get one you do serious, incapacitating damage instead of just kicking him or throwing him. Someone with a broken arm or dislocated knee isn't going to be back in the fight anytime soon unless they got heart like Tim Sylvia.

dig420 · 08-12-2004, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mcmc
Wrestling ??? Are you serious ???

Wrestling is DEADLY. They'll take you down no problem, and usually stay mounted on you with no problem. It's hard to punch back when you're laying on your back eating knees and elbows the whole time.

=^..^= · 08-12-2004, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dig420
Or they fucked your girl without permission and without taping it for you.

that definately deserves an ass kicking

08-12-2004, 03:47 PM	#151
Ian_GDM Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York Posts: 50	BJJ/Wrestling and MT/Boxing are the only arts with a substantial amount of evidence supporting their effectiveness. Other arts rely on questionable "My teachers brothers friends cousin kicked so-and-so's ass" stories. Basically you are making a large investment of time in a discipline that has no proof that that investment will have any return. I'm a lean 230 with 12 years of powerlifting/highland games training 2 years of MT and four years of BJJ under Renzo Gracie and I have NEVER "needed" that training. I've used it, but that mythical unarmed one-on-one unavoidable confrontation with their girlfriend watching that martial artists have wet dreams about just does not occur very often in real life. Single unarmed combat is a social convention of a very small portion of our population. I go to Asian parties here in NYC occasionally and I am very polite, eight 140lb Asian dudes can kick my ass no problem. With other demograpics I'd be stabbed or shot if I started trouble. In fact if I wanted to get into a one on one fight I'd probably have to hop on a train to the Upper East Side and find some other young white guys who share that background in order to manage it. Why would most people fight me one on one? That's a way to massage your ego not teach someone a lesson. Someone really needs to be hurt you don't challenge him to fisticuffs you kick him down a flight of stairs, pour a beer on him and let him explain it to the police. Considering the years and thousands of dollars spent training I cannot think of any discipline with a worse return. Spend all that time and money to protect the $100 in my wallet from crazy homeless dude with a knife? So I can be a dickhead and beat someone up for looking at my girl or spilling a drink on me? Martial arts only have a proven track record when it comes to single unarmed combat, nearly every time I have seen that ocurr both participates were being egotistical dickheads and getting carried away over something that could have been fixed with an apogly, a few beers and a handshake. There are better ways than martial arts to get in shape, martial arts are expensive insurance against a usually entirely avoidable and statistically very rare danger. The only reason I can think of to train them is because they are fun and the competition is enjoyable. At which point the effectiveness of various arts is a moot point just how much you enjoy them. __________________ Hosted Galleries with Exclusive NYC Asian Amateurs Last edited by Ian_GDM; 08-12-2004 at 03:49 PM..

08-12-2004, 05:44 PM	#155
mcmc Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Switzerland Posts: 1,705	Wrestling ??? Are you serious ??? __________________ http://www.AdultDVDdb.com Conversion: 1:149 (so far this year with more than 650 000 unique hits) @ http://www.pimproll.com

08-12-2004, 08:09 PM	#159
dig420 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 9,240	In my experience, most fights are not gangfights. They are the result of someone in your circle of acquaintance hurling an unforgivable insult, or getting into your face so much that you're forced to do something about it on the spot. Or they fucked your girl without permission and without taping it for you. Or it's a drunk frat boy at a bar or someone else's drunk friend at a party. Or someone you know who's been talking too much smack. I was in a LOT of fights when I was (much) younger, and 90% of the time it was a one on one confrontation for intensely personal reasons. All this bullshit about BJJ not being the best because you can't whip 10 men at once with it is just bullshit. There is no art that is better for multiple opponents because NO art will allow you to whip multiple committed opponents attacking all at once. Nothing except scared opponents is going to help you in that situation, you just have to start acting so crazy that they're afraid to bumrush you lol.... Even in the case of multiple opponents, with BJJ at least if you do get one you do serious, incapacitating damage instead of just kicking him or throwing him. Someone with a broken arm or dislocated knee isn't going to be back in the fight anytime soon unless they got heart like Tim Sylvia. Last edited by dig420; 08-12-2004 at 08:13 PM..

08-12-2004, 03:50 PM	#152
James White Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Dirty South, Atlanta ICQ# : 191-402-709 Posts: 1,405	Taser.