Improper Free Host Use Is Killing Us

[blakkfrogg]

I have a few things to say that a lot of folks won't like.... and by making these remarks, I mean no offense to anyone heavily involved in the free host game -- be you an operator or legitimate heavy user of free hosts. That said, here goes:

There are a ton of jackasses using free hosts and ruining it for those of us that take adult webmastering very seriously. Free hosts made it possible for every tom, dick, sally, margaret, tony & bill to try their luck in the pornslinging game WITHOUT having to make a serious financial commitment to the business; and YES it is a business.

This lack of financial commitment makes means they don't have to care what happens to the industry in the long-run. This creates and encourages short-term thinking and as we all know, short-term thinkers have a history of killing off good businesses in the long-run.

While those of us who OWN our own domain names are careful to meter the amount of 'free stuff' we use as bait so that our costs for bandwidth consumption do not outweigh our income from sales, the wanna' be pornslingers using only free hosts just throw their galleries out there without thinking about how too much 'free' makes it easier for the pornlovers/consumers to say, "Eh, why pay for it? I can get it for free....."

Am I saying that all free host users are wanna' be pornslingers? Absolutely not. I use them from time-to-time and find them to be an excellent tool when sales are down and bandwidth costs are a bit higher than expected. But they are a TOOL and not the mainstay of my adult webmastering arsenal.

OK, I'm done bitching for now and I hope I haven't pissed too many people off. As counterbalance for my negativity, I think it is only fair that I offer some positive thoughts as well.

I just hate seeing our industry fall into the crapper because people with no real commitment to the game are flooding the market with bullshit over-populated (meaning too much free stuff) galleries in the hopes of making a few bucks. It's all good to try and make money, but this trend is killing the source of our bread and butter.

Solution? Yep. Galleries should have a MAX of 20 images per gallery, with the norm being around 12 or 15. Should free hosts exist? Yes, but accounts should be handed out to 'qualified webmasters' (see a thread on this board I started last week), not to just anyone.

Yell at me, scream at me and tell me to go to hell, but that is what I think needs to happen. We all have to stick together and make the tools work FOR us, not against us. By the same token, these tools were originally developed to help serious pornslingers grow their business, not to make it so that others could make our lives harder.

Free hosts are a powerful tool and as with any great tool, in the hands of the uneducated, unskilled and/or uncaring craftsman/craftswoman, it can be used to destroy things with undaunting speed.

I've said my piece. *phew* Can I have a beer now?

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Eat Beaver.. It's Cheaper Than Caviar

[Bake]

I think free host love those crapy litle sites there all over the place there layed out so bad there bound to click on there headers and footers.It's just a numbers game.
But it must be getting harder for them to make a buck they seem to drop like flys.
I like to now if Free host are happyer with the guys who do the tgp posting more seriously and who get 100k a day or lots of little guys that get 2k why the big guys get more traffic they normaly have better layout hopeing to get the surfer themselfs and not loss it to the host? I be happyer if all TGP"s hade AVS on them I think that would make things much better.
Bake

[blakkfrogg]

I do not have all that much experience with AVS sites.... People have told me that they make a decent amount of money off them, but as I said, I have very little experience with them.

Expand upon your idea.... Tell us how AVS would enhance the free host business.

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Eat Beaver.. It's Cheaper Than Caviar

[Rose]

Well said blakkfrogg...*S*

[blakkfrogg]

Thank you, Rose.

I know, this is a lmae post, but what can I say? I've been a busy Frogg this weekend. Please forgive me.

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Eat Beaver.. It's Cheaper Than Caviar

[Bake]

I don't know if avs on tgp's will help free host but I think in the long run it would be a benifit to everyone.
1) At least the surfer has a criedt card,AVS traffic converts heaps better,
2)lower bandwidth =lower cost lose all those free loading underage surfers.
3)looks like the porn thing is for adults only.The Govenment would love this.
Now your just got to talk the TGP owners to "all" put AVS on.I love to know what the HUN would make out of that,unless they where forced to do it it wont happen we do need self regulation not Government enforced shit
Bake

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The harder I work the luckyer I get

[blakkfrogg]

I'm all for self-regulation, but I'm not certain that AVS is the answer. I think 'softer' regulatory actions will be more effective -- especially since there will always be the undermining faction that will be offering things for free.

I believe this to be a more plausible solution: If tgp operators, and I am one of them, stopped accepting galleries with more than 12 or 15 pics per gallery, then the surfer, if they are truly in search of 'relief' will have to subscribe somewhere. Free is always the best bait and to lock the surfer into an AVS-type arrangement may scare too many of them away. Let them choose the specific type of satisfaction they want, be it fetish, asian, amateur or whatever. AVS allows them access to it all. If they want asian one day, they have to buy it, and if they want amateur the next, they have to buy it.

I could be wrong.... It's been known to happen.

But I do agree with you. Self-Regulation, in whatever form it may take, is the key to our survival.


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Eat Beaver.. It's Cheaper Than Caviar

[Bake]

AVS only lets them into the TGP not to all pay sites I think it would produce more avs sales, so small avs sites now that get a few sales mite miss out a bit but then there be more surfers with avs to buy there sponsors stuff and think about all recurring sales you would make on your TGP$$$ , whats the url to your submit page.
Bake

[basschick]

i would never never never never (did i mention never?) put an avs site on a free host. what for?

avs sites use TONS less bandwidth than gallery posting, and since the hits from the avs's are such great quality for sales, why would you give any away to a free host?

[sggirl]

Frogg

What is the submit url to your tgp. I would like to send you some galleries.

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www.sin-girls.com

[Lensman]

It's my opinion that the problem is inexperienced webmasters and not the FreeHosts. The trouble with webmasters is they give away far too much for free. If a gallery has 20 high quality explicit images, that surfers can get what they want without having to join anything, and no one makes any money.

I think FreeHosts should ban images that show genitals (pussy or cock) from hosts. That's right, you would only be able to show tits and ass.

Why?

1. You and the host would make more money, if they want pussy, they gotta pay.

2. If the new goverment finds a way to crack down on porn sites, the freehosts are ideal targets.

[blakkfrogg]

We seem to agree on a few points, Lensman. Too much free stuff is killing off our profits and it is not the free hosts' fault, but rather, as you explained, the fault of inexperienced webmasters trying to 'stand out' in the gallery lists by having more photos than the next guy/gal's gallery.

How do we, as alleged experienced webmasters, stop this trend and start making the money we all want (and sometimes deserve) to be making?

I'm tired of selling crack to toddlers, damn it! Yeah, the money's good, but the stench of full diaper loads and crack smoke is really starting to get to me.


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I shot the sheriff... but the fucking deputy got away.

[TFCash]

This was such a good post I thought I would bring it back to the top to go alone with some of the other discussions that are going on here


Tim

[Gemini]

It would have to come down to the 'experienced' webmasters banding together in high enough numbers to force our wills of the lower number and lower quality of pics on tgp's.

That *could* backfire if the wannabe's fill the void with their 50-100 pic gals. Lens has a good thought but the patterne seems to be to ban the freehosts for any excuse anyhow.

Banning the freehosts would also result in Reublican like ways to also eject alot of other experienced webmasters from the business as well. All of us run into money probs from time to time and revert to freehosts to get the nestegg built back up and be able to afford the BW on our paid fors.

It just about will *have* to be the sponsors banding together in an agreement on the content they provide us to work with. Then the tgp's, picposts etc canNOT complain alot. That would also mean that content sellers would have to add to their regulations as to how they allow their hardcore or full view content are allowed to be used. Have to cut off the main provider (sponsor) and then the secondary source (the sellers)

Or else it may cause a ripple for awhile in the tgp sites having less gals, but then the wannabes will tell all their friends and we'll be overwhelmed with greenies.

[wiZd0m]

My first gallery ever -> http://ss5.sexshare.com/~wiZd0m/hun.html well, I tought the more I would show them, the more likelly they would signup, after all, I was exibitting the quantity and quality of the sponsor had. Well no, I made a grand total of Zero dollars with it. But I did get my gallery listed everywhere even without recips in very good spots.

Ok, so I was a newbie, whats the big deal? No one told me, hey David, you would be much better off putting less banners and maybe some text , 1/3 of the thumbs, you would make more money. Nope. So what you think I did the time after? I put even more thumbs, bigger, better quality, lol http://ss5.sexshare.com/~FPAL00/hun.html

Ok, so I did not get lucky, so I said, well, thats it, the free host is getting all my clicks (shit was I a newbie) so I made a gallery like that on my pay host, expecting 1 million visitors in a few days and making a real fortune ... ;-) Well I got a nice 72 gig bill for the first day, 1 sale, so I took it down) and did not post a gallery for 5 month afterward. I deceided to go after SE traffic instead...

Well look where I am today, I was a newbiue once, and so were you. Picking on the newbies today is the easy path to blame our failiure as a group to help the younger ones to do it right.

I did not forget what I did when I got into this business, it's always good to have these galleries remind me of how newbie I was at some point

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wiZd0m
Fortune Pussy Adult Links

[RedShoe]

I think Lens has a valid point, and even though I guess I'm still considered a newbie. It's something that I've mentioned before. Get them excited, then send 'em to your sponsor.

"Get his dough, before he blows his load"
- RedShoe, 2001
(Crude, but to the point)

Galleries, are simple marketing! Adverise the goods to the consumer, bring them in, introduce them to the closer (AP) and earn a comission.

Over the weekend Mrs. RedShoe, and I went camping. There, we brainstormed a bit, and came up with pretty good idea that sort of a impliments Lensmans ideals.

When I get closer to launch, I'll let y'all know. I think you will like it.




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...:::End Of Line:::...
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Reverand RedShoe * [email protected] * uSexFan.com * LeeannOnline.com
ICQ : 114683191

[UnseenWorld]

I have written before in webmaster chats and bbs's that there's too much free stuff in the adult market. Forget TGP's, though, what about the Usenet newsgroups? This discussion is going on as though if you got rid of free hosts and TGP's everything would be hunky-dory.

Get rid of free hosted sites and TGP's and almost anyone can still find porn with just a bit more effort by going to the newsgroups. Pictureview and other services even take the work out of searching for porn by finding it and thumbnailing it for their subscribers. And who can't afford $8 a month for Pictureview?

Given that hundreds of thousands of photos are available for free through the newsgroups, I think the market for most adult websites isn't the experienced web nut, but rather the beginning surfer. Either that, or the person obsessed with a particular fetish (tits, full bush, BDSM, teen, or whatever), or the person who likes something else very specific like a particular photographer's work, broadband content, and so on.

I'd also like to say that the site which regularly features exclusive material and updates frequently has an edge over just about any other kind of site. And this is especially true if you want to snag the more sophisticated user and hang onto him.

And while I produce content myself, including exclusive content, I'm not being self-serving in this observation, because I actually make more money in the long run with content I make for my own business and sell non-exclusively. All exclusive content represents to me is quick money.

Speaking for most adult photographers, I think, we wouldn't mind if we woke up tomorrow morning and all the photo newsgroups were gone. They seem to exist almost entirely for the purpose of copyright violation.

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Producer of truly original teen/young woman-oriented adult content

[TFCash]

I've got it I know how we can take care of all our problems in one fell swoop Let GWB and his cronies know how much money they are losing on taxes, from all the free shit on the web, and I can guarantee you that they would legislate it tomorrow that there can be no more free porn on the net !!!! I just don't think they know how much money is being lost due to the full on hi-rez hardcore pics that are out there, both on tgp's and newsgroups. I do have to say that NG's do require a couple more brain cells that the average joe that is surfing the TGP's has to get to, so it would take them a while to pick up on it if TGP's, and hosts were to tame down the open content. And I in no way want the TGP's or any hosts to go away. I think there is plenty of money to be made by all. Just like lightening said in his post, there are many facets to our industry with many people contributing. And we are all suffering when we allow ourselves to get to the point we have.


Tim

[justined]

I don't think galleries are the marketing anymore, they have become a product in their own right

J

[sweetjimmy]

I use freehost exclusively. I have it down to an artform. I do show pussy and cock but I don't show penetration. I think Lensmans's right about surfer having to pay but I don't think surfer is gonna come to my site if he can't see any pussy. I just lay off on the hardcore pics. If surfer wants penetration he can pay for a membership or a video.

I also have alot of free pics but I compress the thumbs and I put up alot of advertising. I think 20 pics with 1 banner is alot worse than 56 pics with 12 banners.

here's an example of how its done...son.
http://www.sweetjimmy.com/pornstars/clane/clane.htm

i don't usually add flash but i made an exception for this one.

[UnseenWorld]

Actually, I've known several paysite webmasters who experimented with R-rated tours vs. X-rated tours and, surprisingly, the R-rated tours did just as well and sometimes better than the X-rated tours. Now, and R-rated photo can be an X-rated photo with some well-placed text to obscure the view, but a "tease" often works better than dishing up the real deal.

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Producer of truly original teen/young woman-oriented adult content

[Snake]

My 2 cents:
Even though I run a TGP I don't have a problem with running non-nude/no money shot galleries.
The "Foundation" as mentioned in another thread is not freehosts/traffic/SE's but the sponsors themselves.
We all focus all our efforts to push the surfer to the sponsor, because the sponsor PAYS us. TGP's don't pay, Freehosts don't pay, SE's don't pay(directly), but SPONSORS do.
If sponsors said no "money shots" the shit would stop when you got your termination notice. I'm not one for censorship, but the deal is, we're all trying to make a buck, and now that the net is 20 times more flooded with foreign(3rd world) webmasters, there's a lot of fucking cheating, scamming and other assorted bullshit going on that hurts all of us. A little self regulation never hurts.

I'm not a protectionist either, but I know from my experiences that "3rd world" webmasters are the cheatinist(is that a word?) sons of bitches around. Freehost should monitor who they allow to sign up for their service. Sure, they all want to be the biggest, but at what cost, when you have auto download dialers, are banned by TGP's, or have CP littering your site. Get a grip, it is your ass on the line, take some responsiblity. Monitor what the fuck kind of assholes you have using your service, ban all those on the list 12 clicks has for his programs.

Sure I've banned about 83.7% of freehosts, but it's because of the shitheads that use/abuse the service. I don't want my site or name associated with CP/Beasty or any other demented shit that ain't quite right you can think of, to include dialers which have no way of proving age and should be banned by all of us. Imagine getting a 400 dollar bill for your son gettting 20 minutes of viewing a site located in Djibouti, with stolen images of Linda Lovelace and Seka. Christ, all you jokers pushing that shit should go fuck yourselves before someone does it for you. And no matter what you say about how great it is, or how it's so effective, will never convince me to fuck someone over for my own personal gain. 30 cents doesn't do much for me anyhow. And from what I've seen on the boards, all dialer pusher are the equivlent to a crack whore.
There are a lot of "wanna-bes" out there, just be smart and stick with the "already-ares".

[wolfshade]

Ooooh I just have to get my 2 cents in

This one's for Snake:

I agree with your post but up to a point because:

1) I know there are a lot of cheaters comming from countries like Russia, Romenia etc... BUT(And there always is a but) I do not believe in banning those countries from freehosting, sponsorprograms etc... The reason for this is simple when the time comes that the honest webmasters(and there are honest people from Russia and the other countries) have to pay the price because of the cheaters that's just not right. IMHO we need to fight the cheaters but only the cheaters. I don't care what it takes, I also don't care of the costs it is wrong to deny a honest webmaster his profession of choice and banning those countries are crippling them.

2) I also understand the sponsor's side of it and can understand why those countries are not accepted, however that does not make it right in my opinion.

In general I think we all would be served better if we put those efforts we put in banning those countries into developing systems that are not so easy to cheat, and I also say we should come down on cheaters a lot harder. Set examples of what happens when you do cheat. Just not paying them isn't good enough what we need are shared cheater lists to make sure those cheaters can not join anywhere else and rip another sponsor off.

As for dialers I entirely disagree with you for the following reasons:

1) It is not the job of the webmaster to keep kids of the sites, it's the job of the parents. And for your example 20 minutes does not equal 400 bucks , but a high phonebill might be exactly what those parents need to get a little more motivated to monitor those kids better, as it is THEIR job.

As for the freestuff I don't even think that's the problem, it's marketing skills that count.

When I hear webmasters stating I submit to this TGP and and that one and total 100k of hits to the gallery a day and make 2 signups and then look at my pages and conclude that I can submit to those same TGP's, get the same amount of hits and rake in $ 200 in sign ups + $ 20 bucks in exit traffic + $ 20 in clickthroughs and I won't even mention the minutes to my dialer I think it's safe to say they are not using the right marketing techniques for their traffic. And that IMHO is the problem nothing else.

My 2 cents a minute

Wolfshade


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[Techie Media]

This is a good damm thread... Many great points.
From the free Host stance, I believe Snake and a few others hit the problem. It's not us but rather the
"3rd world" webmasters are the cheatinist(is that a word?) sons of bitches around.
(If its not a word, well Ill accept it, its the best word I've seen for them).

We provide a great free service to thousands of Webmasters, but those few Cheaters are scum and are ruining a good thing for everyone.
I can tell you this, We just hired extra staff just last week to help police for cheaters. Their jobs are mainly to go into each and every account hosted on us and spot check for all kinds of cheating. ie Child Porn, Beast Crap, Scripts to hide my ads etc... The problem with this is that when I delete a real cheaters site, and it happens to be listed on several tgp's or other sites, then a 404 error comes up and the site that got this now thinks I'm a cheater. I have tried working with a few big tgp's in keeping eachother informed of when we delete accounts.. Its not easy for them or us.. But if people like Snake would work with me, we could make some progress..
OK enough for now..
Snake Let's Talk..



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Smile and Be Happy

Lightning Free Hosting
Girls Host

[blakkfrogg]

Damn.... I started this back in January, I think, and it took this long for anyone to notice it. ROFL....

I now use a freehost, as my bandwidth bills have been getting higher and higher each month. I don't spam, I try like hell not to violate anyone's rules, and I don't use freehosts as my "cheater galleries."

I don't know about the rest of you, but I really like this business. I don't hide behind phony emails, a dozen screen names, etc. I stand tall next to my pornslinging efforts. I'm proud of my work(s).

This business is more than a business to me -- It's a lifestyle

Yep... a lifestyle that requires me to look at nude pictures and talk to freaks all around the world. Life is good. LOL Now all I have to do is find a way to make it a full-time job. heh-heh-heh.... Someday.... Someday....

Now go make some damn money, everyone!

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Something New... http://www.americas-best.com/adult

[wolfshade]

It's probabely like good wine it needs to age before it's quality is shown

Wolfshade


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[MrBrian]

stop the bitching and move with the times

i dont see hustler, penthouse and playboy trying to shut down the internet because their magazine sales have fallen 400% in the last five years

they are trying to get on the web and make a presence...

[wolfshade]

Who's bitching we're discussing a topic if you wanna see bitching check out AWI*LOL*

Wolfshade


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Get paid per minute!
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[scarabst]

Please give our free hosting site a try, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. http://freepages.infoextra.com

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[email protected]
Have a Great Day!

[PrivateEye]

I have been EATEN!

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/