Sovjetz

ok guys,

in order to test a new advertisement on one of my websites, i visited and joined my sponsor join4free with a few test email adresses. The raw hits were counted but the signups were not! In order to doublecheck i used another email adress and joined for a second time! again no signups counted! Even now when i post his message (1 hour later) no signups have appeared. On top of it all comes the fact that signups have dropped rapidly since several months. An example of how bad join4free is working! a guy with 30k unique visit a day has join4free textlinks all over his page and recieves only 6 signups (6$) per day and that while it as a 100% FREE website!

does anyone else experienced such 'suspicious
events at join4free webmaster program?

------------------
life's about making money and spending it!

MrBrian

maybe they are shaving?
its not like thats an uncommon practice
just use the sponsor that makes you the most money

justined

maybe a better place to post this is on the j43 board, it's never nice to call people cheats, try speaking to them, Redd is very helpful over there.

J

Sovjetz

i am not convicting anyone to cheating, however this is strating to look a lot like it. I just want a honest opinion of my fellow webmasters instead of the ones on the j4f board, who are earning money anyway,

so that's why!




------------------
life's about making money and spending it!

[This message has been edited by Sovjetz (edited 05-07-2001).]

Hypo

I started off with Lesbians4free. Didnt get any signups the first day after sending them a lot of traffic. Then I signed up for it with 2 different emails, got membership and their newsletter everyday, but no signup showed in my stats. After that I shifted to J4F on someone's advise, and it started getting me sign ups. Not tested it myself. Not many signups though, and the conversions vary dastically every day. I use it as my exit traffic, not worth putting it on my main page. I might change that too if I can figure out a better sponsor for exit without any popups.

Sovjetz

lebians4free is from the same company as join4free is so it shouldn't make that much of a difference!

Sickdick

You must log into the site after you've received your password and username in order for the signup to be counted. The signup process last time I checked is like this:

Enter name, address, e-mail address..
Receive confirmation e-mail..
Log into site..
Answer some questions..
And you're inside!

------------------
Free Adult URL Forwarding With No Advertising!

Free Hosting With FTP Uploads And No Bottom Advertising

Lensman

They probably don't count multiple joins from one IP, cookie, webmaster etc.

And you "tested" with multiple mailboxes, I'm sure that's against the rules...

Hustler

you may want to talk to redd about taking off the reffer because i think they only count signups with the certain reffer on it...

-carlos

Rip

signing up ubder your own affilliate code to a sponsor program is not permitted under most programs, an I would hazard a guess that even the very weakest affilliate software is set up to filter out webmasters who sign themselves up

So let's take max cash as an example they pay you $35 for a $2.95 trial... some smarty pants partner decides to sign up... it costs $2.95 and he/she figures to net back $32.05 in cash

I don't know or use join for free, but I bet they have already accounted for webmasters who sign up under their own accounts or their "friends" accounts to generate more sign ups

I would consider what you are doing fraud, as you are attempting to sign up for free under your own affilliate code, and then expect to net back the proceeds of the sale, whether that be $25 or whatever amount.

I'll betcha a counterfeit three dollar bill, that the join for free affilliate script wiped out your signup before you even got started checking your stats

RRRED

Sovietz, I couldn't help but notice that your site listed in your profile redirects to a different url. If that's what you did with us, you won't get credit for the signup. Also lensman was right about the cookies. Since I'm not a programmer I'm going to cut and paste something from Phil, our programmer which explains session variables... very crucial in ensuring honest promotion of our program.

>>>>There are 2 things I want to check / explain here. First is our session management. When you visit our site, you'll see that you have a "jfree_li" variable included in all of the links as well as sent as a cookie. This is your unique session ID. It contains various pieces of data including which webmaster gets credit for the signup. The session lasts approx. 1 hour. So here is the catch. If you come to our site by typing in "http://www.join4free.com" in your browser, your session get's created with the house account getting credit for the signup (you didn't come from a webmaster). Then you go to your site and click the link to come to join4free, but it doesn't matter because your session is set up to give credit to the join4free house account already. This will NOT affect surfers, because surfers don't have a session created until they click the link on your site, at which point they get their own sessions created with you as the webmaster who gets credit.

How can you test a sign up? Either don't visit our site for a few hours, or go to a computer that hasn't visited our site. Go to YOUR page. Click the link to us. Signup. Verify your signup by the email you receive and go all the way through to our members area. Wait 10 minutes and you should see it in the stats.

The second thing to remember is that our stats are NOT real time. They update every 5 - 10 minutes. Keep that in mind when testing.


Philip >>>>>

If any of you with questions regarding signups being counted please email me [email protected] that would be great. Usually a complaint like this ends in a very simple little error. We are forced to have referrer checking in place if we want to continue paying webmasters on the high scale that we do




------------------
Join4Free

Sovjetz

ok guys,

just to clear things up the referral code iam using was activated by join4free several months ago as to be valid on every page, after having specifically asked for.

Second i have 2 internet connections here one analog and one cable, tested it with both
(have a dynamic IP on both) also tested on 2 different computers and both made sure the
internet tempororary files (including the cookies) were deleted.

Also have i asked my partner to do the same thing, again with dynamic ip and deleted cache. Didn´t work.

Third : I don´t think ´testing´ your own scripts and sponsors is cheating. If it were
about hundreds of $ it would be but here its only about 3$ max (with haven´t even been counted yet
An airplane manufacturer isn´t gonna send an aircraft with passengers in the air without checking one single part of the a/c???

I am not trying to disgrace Join4FREE i am just trying to find out why it is not working. The fact that i am so suspicious is because history has had so many cheating sponsors. So don´t blame suspicious webmasters blame your cheating colleagues!

------------------
life's about making money and spending it!

Rip

Why would you go to all that trouble just to test your sign ups, if you aren't making any money? Sounds bizzare, I would just change sponsors

Sovjetz

I could find myself another sponsor yes, but
I want to be absolutely sure that things are not right! Join4Free used to be an excellent sponsor! btw i decided to update an existing site which already receives several thousand visitors a day, so checking your link and sponsor is very obvious. You don´t want to find out after several days that your advertisements on your page aren´t working!

------------------
life's about making money and spending it!

RRRED

Sovietz, I asked you on icq and I'll ask here.... What is your username? or your linkcode? I can look and see what's happening and give you an appropriate answer. I also need to know, did you actually click through from the page you had listed or did you put the linkcode into your brower directly? I'd like to also check to see if your referrer check is indeed shut off.

------------------
Join4Free

Rip

... maybe rrred you are working hard to try and help a webmaster who is seeing if they can beat your system and scam you out of some money

The point is that most webmasters would not goto all this trouble, without emailing customer support first

personally I think that they were trying to drop some emails and make some money

RRRED

Thanks Rip.. I don't think he's trying to scam us.

Sovietz, I just got your info through a bit of digging and according to these stats, you converted at 1 in 21 last month off of 1,336 uniques. Not bad if you ask me. I don't see what the fuss is about.... especially since 50 percent of the traffic is non english speaking traffic....




------------------
Join4Free

deluxe

rrred, i am the partner of sovjetz, i know we conferted great. But the 'fuzz' is still that we signed up, loged in, filled out the questions, got access (3X) and the sign up wasn't counted...

lately i have send traffic through blind links from my dutch sites, before that the confertion was even betten ; )

and we really want to use join4free, but just need an answer on the matter that our joins where not counted...

and rip, mind your own bizz man...
if the sign up was counted by join4free, we had canceled it OFCOURSE! then it was deducted and no body had to pay ; )

pleas contact me on icq, then we can take this discussion of the board.

regards,

Tommy

------------------
FreeNetPasses - free join AVS
$1 per free sign up
[email protected]
77717734

MattressKing

rrred, I'd like to thank you for changing the consoles, you or whoever did.

But again, Join 4 free doesn't have the great sign up ratios like it used to. I'm sure that millions are already a member, and the thing used to be all over every tgp gallery.

Anyways, today I'm converting 1 in 47 with search engine traffic, whoo whoo

MrCockTale

Sovjetz why are you calling them cheaters
when you cheat there program?

I don't think it's allowed to signup twice
by using your own REF code

------------------
Life's a bitch

Shok

Im sorry your not doing as good as you would like.
The majority of our affiliates are still doing as good if not better than ever. Maybe try changing up the way you advertise the program and see what happens.

Shok
Join4free

deluxe

There is no problem with that as long as you cancel the membership within 14 days, the signup will just be deducted


------------------
FreeNetPasses - free join AVS
$1 per free sign up
[email protected]
77717734

RRRED

If you're using IE, when you delete temporary internet files, it does not delete cookies.

I would suggest you not visit the site for two hours. Just don't go to join4free.com and don't go to your linkcode either. Just stay away completely.... THEN go sign up and you will have no problems. Make sure you fill out the questionarre and all that thoroughly. We have a 5-10 minute delay and BOOM you WILL see your signup. Let me know how this goes. It wouldn't hurt to post it here since you already took it upon yourself to paint a picture of fraud for everyone to see.

------------------
Join4Free

RRRED

If you'd like to give me your linkcode, I can take a look for you and see if we can work together to raise those converions. I see numerous sites that do 1:5 or better STILL. Things evolve and our sales tactics need to evolve as well.



------------------
Join4Free

MattressKing

RRRed, half the fun is being anonymous on these message boards. I also don't think you should go around telling peoples sign up ratios unless they ask you to, not to sound rude

Anyways, I just checked again, now it's 1 in 31 whoot whoot

[/B][/QUOTE]

Rip

So I was just looking at join for free, which gives you $1 or so for each free join is that right?

RRRED

MatressKing, I only post ratios in defense of people posting false ratios, which I see time and time again. I have a feeling that's why you won't give me your account info If you request me not to post them, I'll gladly ablige....

Rip that is correct... also you receive 10% of webmaster referrals and a 15 cent raise if you can send over 100 signups a day. Get ahold of me if you'd like some assistance



------------------
Join4Free

Hypo

RRRED, I'm quite sure about L4F being doubtful with signups. I left it on for a couple of days. No signups, and then I just kept the ad the same (Full Page Exit ad) just changed the link to J4F instead of L4F - it started counting signups, just as someone on the J4F board said it would.

I'm sure L4F didnt count my signup, I had signed up, confirmed, then went to the site and answered questions. 0 signups after a day, and I sent it over a 1000 hits.

RRRED

I think I talked to you. I tried to look up a username similar to the one on here and couldn't find it unfortunately. But if I remember right, I believe you were having problems with sending that 1000 hits and not receiving signups. When I went to check, there were referrer errors. Meaning that your referrer check was not turned off. Again, if I'm remembering you right, I shut it off and that was the end of that problem.

In regards to signing up under yourself, again, go up this thread where I posted a quote from our programmer explaining in vivid detal about session management. If you are going to sign up under yourself, you NEED to make sure to not visit the site for about 2 hours so that you can begin a new session. I can't stress this enough. That feature is there to combat cheating.

Feel free to icq me 40720138 or email me with your username and I check into it further for you.



------------------
Join4Free

Hypo

RRRED, no you havent talked to me earlier, at least not that I can recall. I posted on the J4F message board once and another user suggested I change to J4F instead of L4F. After which the problem was resolved. I understand about the session signups now. So maybe the problem was the lesbian site didnt convert that good, it didnt have the signup box on the front page either.

Theo

i don't agree that webmaster are facing better ratios than ever but for sure the webmasters shouldn't expect same ratios when they send exit traffic in every single site they have.

------------------
Offshoreclicks - Pay for Entrance/Exit Traffic

salo18

I have been EATEN!

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

__________________
.