Well Labret, I like your line "Enemy of my enemy is my friend".

Maybe That's why I like Israel. Personally I have never been there and I dont think I even know any jew.

And dont be jealous that canadian schools are better than american. You know my husband is american and works in the states, but the reason we live on this side of the border is,
we didnt wanna put our son through US school system.
Remember jealousy will not get you anywhere.:Graucho

Good nite

In fact, archeological evidence (artifacts, etc) shows that the Jews did not wipe out the Canaanites but intermarried with them.

Do you really think Israel would exist if the Holocaust never happened? Anyways suppose your version of events is somewhat true. First of all there were no Israeli terrorists in the way there are Arab terrorists. They never killed women and children and they were seeking a peaceful solution. The arabs were always the unreasonable ones. Once Israel had the land it defended it's claim many times against it's Enemies. I think they have more claim to the land than any other country to their land.
Anyways it's useless arguing with you...you just hate Jews...

Are you saying the Torah is false? Are you calling the God of Israel a liar?

The archaeological record proves that Neanderthal and Homo erectus both populated the area that is now Israel. Give it back to them.




You think the push into Israel by Zionists does not pre-date the "holocaust"? Go to any site about Zionism. So long as there has been a Zionist, there has been a desire to repopulate the homeland as God commanded.



Somewhat true? That just leads me to believe you are ignorant of the facts. So far your only justification for Israel has revolved around the same argument I was given in elementary school. You have no idea what you are talking about.



Is that right?

Any of what I am about to quote is easily verified on the web.



Please explain.

Ahh yes. The last refuge of a broken individual.

Come back when you learn a little history.

Dating outside your race? Race traitor.

Iraq has said they would attack Israel if provoked by the US - just like they did in the Gulf War by firing 39 scud missiles into Tel Aviv.

What is the source of all your "facts" Labret. I did a search on the web and all I could find is anti semitic sites that present no opposing view point. There was no single at least "semi-impartial" source. It is typical of people like you to use a long list of half thruths to try and "prove" a point. For example the British received at least six warnings before the King David Hotel was blown up. Your points prove nothing anyways. A country does not need to justify it's existence. That's all for me. I don't want to get into an endless chain of arguments with an idiot.

To deny the incredible power of the religious right in Israel is just showing how little you know about the situation.

Do you think that the Arab problem is a day to day issue for the average Israeli? It isn't - the biggest problem facing Israel today is the continuing pressure munted against its own citizens by the religious right. Try and drive down Tel Aviv on a Saturday and you'll know what I mean.

Straight BS - post a link to prove this.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_arhs.htm
The archeological record shows that, in many cases, cities mentioned in Joshua did not exist when the Israelite invasion was supposed to have happened. In most of the other locations, there were no signs of destruction as described in the Bible. There is a growing belief among archeologists that neither of the Biblical stories is true. Rather, the Israelites developed from what some call proto-Israelites who "...started out as indigenous Canaanites," already in Canaan. 2 In other words, the ancient Israelites started as a sub-culture within Canaan; they did not attack Canaan from outside

The site took the info this book:Philip Davies, "What separates a Minimalist from a Maximalist? Not much," Bible Archeology Review, 2000-MAR/APR Vol 26, #2, Page 24 to 27; 72 & 73.

Okay. I was abit wrong off on this but the point is the Israelites did not kill off the Canaanites according to archeological evidence.

like I said - do you have something to prove what you said to be true?

So you are calling Elohim a liar and the biblical account is false. Correct?

What evidence can I offer? Do you want the pottery sent over to your house?
There are plenty of other sites. This is pretty well known. Here is another:
http://essenes.crosswinds.net/m84.htm#Deuteronomic
Many history professors would confirm this. Do a google search. Make sure what you find is supported by archeological evidence.
I'm off.

Good night

SO what are you trying to prove again?

Its a simple yes or no.

You refute the claims of the Torah.

You destroy the only argument the Zionists have to Israel.

Couldnt have done it any better myself.

Again. There needn't be any claim. What claim does US have for US soil? Israelis turned the land into a first world country while their neighbours are still in the stone age. They defended the land through many wars.
Good Night

They turned it into? Must have been easy with the billions we pumped in.

Stone age? Ever heard of cultural relativism? You broke anthro rule #1.

Goodnight dumbass.

As for the USA. It wasnt given to us. And last time I checked someone didnt claim to have an old book that states the land was ours.

Labret,
Whenever I see some ass wipe liberal bitch about the seperation of church and state. I think about you for a second. It makes the whole experiance a little easier to accept.

:1orglaugh

Why me?

Im afraid its too late. She is breeding.

Note to self. After the revolution, begin forced sterilizations.

ah, you see ? old threads can be entertaining !

Ah I see Labret is destroying the "arguments" of some not so informed people.

Nice read.

That's the second time I've seen you imply that Jews were heavily involved in the African slave trade. Got any sources? The only thing I can find is a book put out in 1991 by the Nation Of Islam.


It's also the second time I've seen you try to use the Old Testament to ascribe slavery to Judaism. Let's see what the NEW Testament says about slavery.


"Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;" 6 not by way of eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. 7 With good will render service, as to the Lord, and not to men, 8 knowing that whatever good thing each one does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether slave or free. 9 And masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him. Col 3:22

"Slaves, in all things obey those who are your masters on earth, not with external service, as those who merely please men, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord." Col 3:24

"Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven." 1 Tim 6:1

"All who are under the yoke as slaves are to regard their own masters as worthy of all honor so that the name of God and our doctrine will not be spoken against." 1 Tim 6:2


So it appears that Christianity condones slavery too.

Why don't you post some referrence before passing this off as fact. Why the fuck should i believe you?

You really gone and stepped in it this time eh?

So what books do you choose from the New Testament to back up your claims of Christianity embracing slavery?

Drumroll please...

Pauline Epistles.

Who was Paul? A Roman Jew who ran around the countryside killing Christians for the Jews until his conversion on the road to Damascus.

One, last I checked the Old Testament was part of the Bible. Two, choosing a Pauline Epistle to back up any claim about how Christians think is absurd. Some people want the Epistles removed from the New Testament entirely for historically as well as scriptural inaccuracies. Its about as valid as quoting Elvis.

Dip and shit.

Labret you always saying that Jews don't have claim to their land in Israel.

Who has that claim then and why?

Instead of just continuously defending your view that Israeli land doesn't belong to Jews, then please give a better option. Whom does the land belong to, in your opinion, and why?

.

The Keebler Elves. All they have is that old tree.

Hmm well I just cannot see what is the relevancy between the Zionist terrorism against British in the 40's and today's situation.

There would be war all over the world if we went back to 40's in order to justify where the borders should be drawn.

Soviet Union took some land from Finland, I don't cry about it, nor do I commit suicide bombings in St Petersburg. Why can't the Palestines just shut the fuck up?

Ahahahahaha. Now that's some funny shit. Talk about your double standards. Judaism embraces slavery cause their book says so. Christianity doesn't even though their book says so.

Regardless, you have to be a complete lunatic to think that the Jews of TODAY condone slavery.

If your livelihood was controlled by the Russians there is a good chance you would be.

They are isolated in ghettos, their movement controlled like cattle.

You cannot compare Karelia and Palestine.

Finnish people moved to the Finland main land. Why dont Palestines just leave the area?

Anyway, that wasn't the point of my post.
The point is ,

WHAT IS THE RELEVANCY between Zionist terrorism in the 40's and today's situation? Are you saying that ANYTHING in the 40's justifies some other action like war or terrorism TODAY?

Are you really this stupid, or do you just pretend?

What part of the "Old Testament is part of the Bible" doesnt make any sense?

Pauls opinions are not the foundation of Christian canon. Last time I checked, Jesus was. Show me where Jesus condones slavery.

Only drumsicle would attack Christians to defend Judaism. Same faith, different Messiah. Your ignorance scares me.

So if the Russians give me your house and force you to live in my backyard, you should just accept it and move away eventually?

Suckin on a little too much Lapin Kulta uh?


I was responding to the post that someone made regarding "the Zionist terrorists were never as bad as Arab terrorists". When in fact they were. Thats all. Read a little more carefully.



What?

You seem to be saying that Jews don't have "legal" claim to the Israeli land because they used Zionist terrorism against British in the 40's. Right?

You just avoid the question about whom does the land belong to, in your opinion, by giving answers like Keebler Elves.

A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master (Matt. 10:24)

Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give the other slaves their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master will find at work when he arrives. (Matt. 24:45-46)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)

Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)

Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh. For it is a credit to you if, being aware of God, you endure pain while suffering unjustly. If you endure when you are beaten for doing wrong, what credit is that? But if you endure when you do right and suffer for it, you have God's approval. (1Pet. 2:18-29)


You were saying?

Where did I say the Old Testament wasn't part of the bible? Your delusions scare me.

Ok, for the third time. Pay attention here.

Pointing out Zionist terrorism was merely to show someone that claimed the Zionists terrorists were not killers of innocent people proof that they did indeed kill innocents.

What part of that is making no sense?



Because its a stupid question. Like who do the Americas really belong to? Who does Ireland really belong to? Who does South Africa really belong to? You can take that argument to the level of absurdity very quickly, which has been done several several times on this board.

Is that Jesus condoning it or acknowledging that the Jews owned slaves?

Where was Jesus slaves?



Again, Pauline Epistles. Quit copying and pasting without knowing what you are talking about. It just makes you look like an idiot. And you dont need any more help.


I still have no idea why you are pounding around this Christian slavery issue.

Pointing out? Really? How about...

It seems to me pretty much, that in another thread you said that
a) there would be no Israel without terrorism
b) they dont have a valid claim to the land

Now, they got that land, with or without terrorism - in the 40's. So they have owned it for decades now. That is a claim to that land. The fact that they have owned the land for decades is a valid claim to that land.

Exactly. I know that. That is THE REASON why I'm trying to say that Jews have a valid claim to the land simply because they have it under their control as of TODAY - and have had for decades.

Actually it's you who is supposed to prove otherwise, if you think that the land does NOT belong to Israel.

Here is some more to cut and paste from if it will make you feel better.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/sla_bibl2.htm

Gotta love the might makes right argument.

So if I shoot you in the face and take your house... its mine fair and square?

How long does one have to occupy someone elses land before it becomes a valid claim to that land?

Comparing a man-to-man conflict and nation vs nation conflict is even worse than comparing Karelia and Palestine, isn't it?

Anyway, just to answer your "question":
Yes it is yours fair and square if you're a nation and I'm a nation and that shooting happened 50 years ago and all 200 other nations in the world agree that you have the right to my "house" TODAY. Then yes, you own it.

I don't have an answer to that. You seem to have, because you say that Jews do NOT have a valid claim because they have owned it for decades "only".

They dont call it the Jewnited Nations for nothing...

You are hung up on this occupation argument. Occupation is no argument to me. Its a might makes right argument that borders on social darwinism and none of that holds water.

The Zionists have one argument and one claim to Israel... and its in the Torah.

Right. Fortunately we have one adult webmaster who is wiser than the 200 nations combined ;)

Ok, so you want to limit it to the Gospels, then I repeat...



A disciple is not above the teacher, nor a slave above the master (Matt. 10:24)

Who then is the faithful and wise slave, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give the other slaves their allowance of food at the proper time? Blessed is that slave whom his master will find at work when he arrives. (Matt. 24:45-46)


Never said he had them.



Ah yes, resort to personal attacks when you have lost the argument.

So be it, if it's the only argument we have. What is the argument of Palestinian people? is it any better than occupation argument that I'm hung up on?

Yes, I am the only one who feels this way. Everyone knows the United Nations are the impartial guardians of truth and justice.

You really think because the United Nations condones the occupation it makes everything ok?

And you have the nerve to call others ignorant? Take a look at the UN's record involving Israel sometime.