Entropy and Evolution - GoFuckYourself.com

galleryseek · 07-27-2004, 01:42 PM

Entropy

Entropy or the second law of thermodynamics is considered an absolute by scientists because it has been proven thousands of times by direct observations. No exceptions to this law have been observed. Basically, this law states that, if left to natural processes, absolutely everything degenerates to the lowest possible level.

The second law of thermodynamics presents a serious problem for evolution. Evolution requires that, if left to natural processes, everything will evolve to the highest possible level.

In other words, entropy and evolution contradict each other. They cannot both be right. One must be right and the other must be wrong. Since we know that entropy is absolutely correct, then it is only common sense that evolution cannot be correct. Therefore, entropy proves that it is scientifically impossible for evolution to occur under any conditions.

I'm just posting this for shits n' giggles, thoughts?

AgentCash · 07-27-2004, 01:52 PM

Entropy in a localized system can go down, while entropy as a whole goes up. Not to mention the fact that all the energy required to fuel biological life and evolution creates more entropy than evolution or life displaces. Same as the manufacture of everyday objects. the object itself has a lower entropy level than it's previous constituent parts but the heat & energy that went into making it raised the entropy of the universe overall.

Meta Ridley · 07-27-2004, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galleryseek
Entropy

if left to natural processes, absolutely everything degenerates to the lowest possible level.....

Are you sure entropy does not have to do more with decay,, while evolution has more to do with living things?

MattO · 07-27-2004, 01:59 PM

The Earth is a system fueled by the sun.

"For example, an unassembled bicycle that arrives at your house in a shipping carton is in a state of disorder. You supply the energy of your muscles (which you get from food that came ultimately from sunlight) to assemble the bike. You have got order from disorder by supplying energy. The Sun is the source of energy input to the earth's living systems and allows them to evolve."

Meta Ridley · 07-27-2004, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galleryseek
Entropy

In other words, entropy and evolution contradict each other. They cannot both be right. One must be right and the other must be wrong. Since we know that entropy is absolutely correct, then it is only common sense that evolution cannot be correct. Therefore, entropy proves that it is scientifically impossible for evolution to occur under any conditions.

I'm just posting this for shits n' giggles, thoughts?

Yes they can both exist.

Think of it this way, the sun is dying (something like entropy) but still producing energy and giving life (something like evolution)

AgentCash · 07-27-2004, 02:06 PM

http://www.2ndlaw.com/evolution.html

CamChicks · 07-27-2004, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by galleryseek

The second law of thermodynamics presents a serious problem for evolution. Evolution requires that, if left to natural processes, everything will evolve to the highest possible level.

Incorrect. Most people misunderstand evolution. Evolution is not a ladder. Evolution is the process of adapting. That is not the same thing as perpetually getting better. Change does not have to imply each successive step is 'higher' than the last. When the environment changes, so must the things that live within it. Evolution simply tracks the survival or extinction of traits.

AgentCash · 07-27-2004, 02:46 PM

Entropy has to do with ordered states so his question was a valid one since a living organisim is more orderly than a gas or plasma made up of it's fundemental parts, and evolution could be seen as making living beings more orderly as more & more complex creatures evolve. So IMHO his understanding is hindered more by a lack of knowledge about entropy than by evolution.

fusionx · 07-27-2004, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
Incorrect. Most people misunderstand evolution. Evolution is not a ladder. Evolution is the process of adapting. That is not the same thing as perpetually getting better. Change does not have to imply each successive step is 'higher' than the last. When the environment changes, so must the things that live within it. Evolution simply tracks the survival or extinction of traits.

Well put!!!

irishfury · 07-27-2004, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CamChicks
Incorrect. Most people misunderstand evolution. Evolution is not a ladder. Evolution is the process of adapting. That is not the same thing as perpetually getting better. Change does not have to imply each successive step is 'higher' than the last. When the environment changes, so must the things that live within it. Evolution simply tracks the survival or extinction of traits.

Very good I was about to post about adaptation but someone already beat me to it...

07-27-2004, 01:42 PM	#1
galleryseek Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 8,234	Entropy and Evolution Entropy Entropy or the second law of thermodynamics is considered an absolute by scientists because it has been proven thousands of times by direct observations. No exceptions to this law have been observed. Basically, this law states that, if left to natural processes, absolutely everything degenerates to the lowest possible level. The second law of thermodynamics presents a serious problem for evolution. Evolution requires that, if left to natural processes, everything will evolve to the highest possible level. In other words, entropy and evolution contradict each other. They cannot both be right. One must be right and the other must be wrong. Since we know that entropy is absolutely correct, then it is only common sense that evolution cannot be correct. Therefore, entropy proves that it is scientifically impossible for evolution to occur under any conditions. I'm just posting this for shits n' giggles, thoughts?

07-27-2004, 01:52 PM	#2
AgentCash Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 720	Entropy in a localized system can go down, while entropy as a whole goes up. Not to mention the fact that all the energy required to fuel biological life and evolution creates more entropy than evolution or life displaces. Same as the manufacture of everyday objects. the object itself has a lower entropy level than it's previous constituent parts but the heat & energy that went into making it raised the entropy of the universe overall.

07-27-2004, 01:59 PM	#4
MattO The O is for Oohhh Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: AUSTIN TEJAS Posts: 10,861	The Earth is a system fueled by the sun. "For example, an unassembled bicycle that arrives at your house in a shipping carton is in a state of disorder. You supply the energy of your muscles (which you get from food that came ultimately from sunlight) to assemble the bike. You have got order from disorder by supplying energy. The Sun is the source of energy input to the earth's living systems and allows them to evolve."

07-27-2004, 02:06 PM	#6
AgentCash Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 720	http://www.2ndlaw.com/evolution.html

07-27-2004, 02:46 PM	#8
AgentCash Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 720	Entropy has to do with ordered states so his question was a valid one since a living organisim is more orderly than a gas or plasma made up of it's fundemental parts, and evolution could be seen as making living beings more orderly as more & more complex creatures evolve. So IMHO his understanding is hindered more by a lack of knowledge about entropy than by evolution.