Dialers are consumer fraud?

[Lensman]

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../adultalrt.htm

[Rip]

Hmmm, could an ftc warning preclude a ban on dialers?

It could be that numerous agressive marketing tactics by webmasters and tremendous phone bills consumers are getting, are just a precurser to an possible ban.

[phon]

aren't most people on broadband/cable/adsl/etc yet ?
with a dialer you only reach half of the market..

[Tanker]

only like 8 percent are not on modems

[phon]

cool
i didn't know that
thx

[Tam]

Why do you think we ban people and don't pay them if they get caught using the word free? LOL

"Be skeptical when you see opportunities to view "free" content on the web. Free doesn't always mean free.

Clicking "OK" isn't always okay. Don't click OK unless you know exactly what you're agreeing to. Read online disclosures carefully. They may be buried several clicks away in pages of small print. In addition, read the language in the gray boxes on your screen.

Beware of any program that enables your modem to re-dial to the Internet. If you see a dialog box on your computer indicating that it's dialing when you didn't direct it to, cancel the connection and hang up. Check the number you're dialing and continue only if it's a local call."

Umm... this is all in the rules and they have it in front of them.... if they click thru with a hard dick, then they are asking for the phone bills.... am I wrong here?

Sorry..... but I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who don't follow the rules....... whether it be surfers or webmasters........ it's all very simple!!!!

"READ THE RULES AND FOLLOW THEM!!!! ALWAYS READ THE TERMS OF SERVICE!!!"

If you don't then you are fucked....... I don't give a shit what it pertains to, it's YOUR responsibility to read the rules, not mine.

Whew.. I know that sounded harsh, but I hear this everyday and it pertains to EVERYONE.... not just webmasters and sponsor programs, but EVERYONE........

Am I right or wrong here?

Tam

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WebmasterCommerce!! /
May the Force Be With YOU!!/
WebmastersProfit!!

[Moose]

Tam
Do you personally send the money back to Joe apartment dweller who lost his phone after he downloaded a "free movie" ?
Or do you kick the webmaster out and keep the money ?



let me end this by saying yes we use dialers to, just asking a q

[Tam]

Nope i don't send them their money back when they lose their shit.... why should I? One, we are resellers, we don't MAKE the dialers..... two, it isn't even the job of the people who make them to make sure that Joe Hardon doesn't spend more than he can afford or has to spend.

When someone takes a loan out for a car and that car gets repossessed....... does the Bank then have to give them back all of the money they have paid on it because they couldn't afford the damn thing to begin with? Nope!!! It just doesn't work that way.

Let me say this.... My hubby's best friend, we were talking about this last night........ he ran up a $900 phone bill several years back... this was not the first time he had done this so when he got that bill, he called them and they wouldn't take it off his bill.... guess what? He lost his phone.... he cannot have a phone to this day and neither can his ex-wife.... BUT. he is a man about it, he knows he did it and he is not trying to make trouble for that company that gave him that great phone sex...... he feels stupid and has no phone, but he took it like the man he is............

I use this as an example because I have a personal contact with someone who did this and have talked to him in depth about it........ he is not pissed at anyone but himself because he had a hard dick one night and couldn't help himself.

THAT my friends, is someone taking responsibility for their actions, which is well what alot of people could learn from. He'll be paying that bill til he damn dies, but he did it!!

Tam

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WebmasterCommerce!! /
May the Force Be With YOU!!/
WebmastersProfit!!

[Kat - Fast]

Originally posted by Moose:
Tam
Do you personally send the money back to Joe apartment dweller who lost his phone after he downloaded a "free movie" ?
Or do you kick the webmaster out and keep the money ?

A very pertinent question. A lot of sponsors take the fuckin piss like this.

[Moose]

Tam this argument:

"When someone takes a loan out for a car and that car gets repossessed....... does the Bank then have to give them back all of the money they have paid on it because they couldn't afford the damn thing to begin with? Nope!!! It just doesn't work that way."

Does not EVEN begin to compare to one of your webmasters offering a "free movie" wich is lying to the consumer...where was the bank dishonest?

Try again

[Tam]

Ok let me just add this here, if I may please?

When we find a cheater...... we contact that person and talk to them and we alert them that they are breaking the rules........ if we see child porn or the word free on their pages, we contact them........

I have personally contacted a few of them, and I show them what I have found and make sure they haven't misunderstood our rules..... if they fully understand they are breaking the rules and refuse to change it then they are told that they will not get paid. I warn them that what they are doing is not only causing them trouble but causing us trouble and everyone that uses a dialer........

And if they don't remove it ASAP, they will not be paid for anything done up until that point. We do not wait til they have collected a ton of minutes and then alert them, we do it right away.........

I don't care if they get 1 minute a day or 1000 minutes a day, if they cheat, they cheat and they all get treated the same by me.

After all of this.. if I go to their sites and they are STILL using the word free, I let them know I worked with them all I can and can't help them anymore.

My point is, we are ALWAYS in contact with our webmasters and we always let them know where they stand with us. If they don't get paid, then they see it coming.

So far we have had one that has refused to change it..... LOL

Tam

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WebmasterCommerce!! /
May the Force Be With YOU!!/
WebmastersProfit!!

[Tam]

The Bank was not wrong........ the consumer was for not reading all the print about having that car taken away and their credit ruined because they did not follow the rules and read the shit. LOL

And as for the consumer being mislead... you are totally right.... if they were told it was free and it wasn't then they have a right to do as they please........
This is exactly why we are such hardases about using the word free to promote them....... that we DO NOT tolerate for even a second.

HOWEVER, if they don't read the disclaimer and they are charged, then this is on them....... see what I am saying?

Tam

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WebmasterCommerce!! /
May the Force Be With YOU!!/
WebmastersProfit!!

[wiZd0m]

First Off, I never used a dialer on any of my sites for any amount of time. I have nothing else to say about them.

Now what the FTC is doing is one thing, but let me remind you they put out the same notices for phone fraud scam and various others scams to alert consumers. You can still use your phone can you? Also, the FTC is not there to say this is good or not. They are there to make sure that what's written in the agreement is what you are getting. Raad this if you have doubts http://www.ftc.gov/os/rules/index.htm

I would like to point out to all of you what clicking yes to a liscense means. Be it a dialer, Windows, or a custom software you bought and you think the liscensing scheme is too broad and too shitty to be upheld in court or anything, think again. See this link to inform you how much it can cost you. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/new..._20000505.html I think it speaks for itself here.

Now when you download a program and click yes, and on (line 13211 of 17 000), and it say, you give your house for 1$ to company X YZ, you think that funny right? Well if I was you, I'd watch what the local politicians are doing and see if UCITA is mention somewhere. What is UCITA? http://www.latimes.com/business/upda...ghts000204.htm <-- Don't you love it even the fine prints are binding you forever!

I think this should give everyone somethign to discuss in here. Please no flames, it add nothing to the discussion.

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wiZd0m

[Moose]

WiZdom
Yes all the FTC is doing right now is warning.

But seems someone else has figured out another way to stifle it by classifying sp? them as a virus.

our minutes have dropped accordingly

[ElvisManson]

wiZd0m,

That story in the LA Times is truly frightening.

The parts about controlling reviews and accessing my computer if I am late on a software lease payment are just a little too Orwellian for my taste.

If it gets passed ( and I shudder at the thought) what else comes next?

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Make Money. Period.

www.pythonvideo.com
www.dollarmachine.com

[Tam]

Originally posted by ElvisManson:
wiZd0m,

That story in the LA Times is truly frightening.

The parts about controlling reviews and accessing my computer if I am late on a software lease payment are just a little too Orwellian for my taste.

If it gets passed ( and I shudder at the thought) what else comes next?

I HONESTLY do NOT mean to sound horrible about this one here...... I truly don't so please don't take it like that.... I just found it funny for some damn reason....... but the horror you just seen is probably what the surfers see when they get those phone bills .... BUT...... my point is....... you don't read the disclaimers and contracts then you get yourself into trouble.

It's horrible no matter what it involves.. but read those damn rules and regulations and all the fine print.

Please, please, please.... don't take me at trying to be a bitch here.... it is just my trying to prove my point is all.

Tam


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WebmasterCommerce!! /
May the Force Be With YOU!!/
WebmastersProfit!!

[wiZd0m]

Tam, I'm not using the dialer as an exemple, altough the dialer itself is software. (So UCITA would apply to dialers contracts)


Usually, no one forces bindind contracts at you when you enter computers stores or when you try to leave that store, or if you even try to pick up something at that store. They don't take the item you are trying to reach away from you and send you another binding contract for you to sign instead. They can't package and advertise their products as being one thing and then turn around and send you a binding contract for something else instead. Everyone would find these practices very objectable.


I never seen a dialer advertised for what it is: A peice of sotware that will connect you to a phone number at 3-7$ a minute. If i'm mistaking, please point me to that place.


With a law like UCITA, everything in the contract/liscense would bind you, no matter what advertised. See our friend who was told he would get bugfree software and got really crappy one. Thank to the waiver in the liscence! The company was immuned! I can already see these (curently non-enforsable) disclaimers in the dialer liscenses.


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wiZd0m

[wiZd0m]

Yes I know it's is written in the contract inside. But it was not packaged and send to you with the proper labeling in the first place either.

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wiZd0m

[boneprone]

The warning page has the price right there for you on the dialer..
How is this any more wrong than how normal paystes make money with recurring? Most people have no idea they will be billed after the 3.95 trial month after month after month until they cancel it.

But like the warning page on the regualr sites, dialers do let u know you are paying for your viewing. Just like the recurring sites you just have to read.. But we all make money of these people who dont read wheatehr you are a regular adult paysite or a dialer.

[jimmy-three-way]

You think dialers are bad, try calling Intuit for small business customer service, you pay like $4 per minute in 15 minute blocks. If you talk for 30 seconds you get hit for $60 in charges.

The only reason we get hit so hard is because we're the smut industry and it's easy to pick on us.

[boneprone]

Trust me if dialers get banned by the FED, the process of recurring will be next. If you dig deep enough into any billing process you can say people are victums to Machines of Enterprise.

[wiZd0m]

Boneprone, (welcome to this discussion) I went a long way not to criticise the dialer itself and it's technology. A dialer is just a peice of software that uses anolgue signal to transmit data over phone line. It's not the technology behind it nor the technology it uses the problem. Also, it's not the billing or the price charged the problem.

When you call your software BritneyNakedHomeVideo.exe and you push it on the surfer, you are not telling him what he gets until he actually 1)clicks on it to 2)run it and then at 3)install time , in the contracts he finds out what the software really does. Thats completely different!

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wiZd0m

[wiZd0m]

Once again, I never said dialers should get banned. Thats not the way to go with any technology. Be it a hammer, screwdriver developement kit or a dialer.

Remind you, windows ships with 5 different dialers build in. So really dialer technology is not the issue here.

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wiZd0m

[boneprone]

I love the dialer.. It is a great souce for porn.. I use it everyday myself.

Im not just a promoter, Im a client too!
You should try my dialer Wizdom! You will be a client after a try also!

My wife does live shows on it, and so does this stripper I met last year, got a cam on her.

[wiZd0m]

If you read me correctly, you will see that I am emphasising on the packaging and advertising of the products and not their prices or their value in the market.

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wiZd0m

[playa]

another hot and heated dialer discussions

lets face it we all have our own opinions
and

opinions are like assholes everyone got one

people that call the dialers free are just plain cheating and would appreciate it if you notify someone when you see a site advertise as such...

"packaging and advertising of the products"

you think only dialers have that problem?

well in that case every sponser tour pages and every blind link sponser and ever tgp gallery would be a problem

most of us shove free porn pics all day to joe blow surfer convincing him he'll get to see better pictures when he buys a "1.95 TRIAL" or some even so called "FREE MEMBERSHIPS FOR LIFE"

you have think of a dialer download like a click thru ratio.....what only counts is when they click on the submit or ok button



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Playa
icq#38147712
www.NoBSdialer.com