Joe Citizen

Well, duh!

That's because micro evolution can be observed while macro evolution cannot because of the time frames involved.

But there is still plenty of evidence for macro evolution in the fossil record - Archaeopteryx being a classic example.

Gunni

I wasn't religious untill the pope called Bush the anti-christ, then it all came clear to me...

boobmaster

Another interesting problem for evolution .... How to explain the existence of natural selection. Chance doesn't.

Joe Citizen

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html

Read and learn.

boobmaster

BULLSHIT! There is no CREDIBLE evidence for macroevolution in the fossil record. The time explanation put forth by evolutionists is also bullshit. Whenever an evolutionist gets boxed into a corner, he/she always brings up the time explanation.

Interestingly enough, if you really look into this idea, you will find that it SHOULD take a hell of a lot longer than 4.5 billion years (age of the earth) for a simple strand of DNA in a warm pond somewhere to evolve into anything approaching a human being. We should be older than the earth.

diesel

Its easy to live when you believe in god ..

boobmaster

I have already. See my post on this, which you obviously haven't gotten to yet. It is not convincing.

The poeple over on talkorigins seem to spend a lot of time bashing creationist claims. If, as the often say, creationism is a stupid theory, why waste all that time trying to discredit it. I'm sure Richard Dawkins has bnetter things to do with his time.

Evolutionism is as much a faith based belief as is the belief in god. These men have careers to protect.

Joe Citizen

"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." - Theodosius Dobzhansky (1900-1975)

If you don't know who he is then you shouldn't be arguing this topic.

Joe Citizen

Don't tell me, you believe the world is 6000 years old, right?

boobmaster

A Russian biologist. Of course he was going to be an evolutionist. He had no choice. He was reared in a godless country. It was spoon fed to him.

boobmaster

I wouldn't go that far. But I have seen some interesting arguments to that effect.

boobmaster

.... and what are your credentials for arguing this topic, may I ask?

Halo18

So if he was say.. an American Creationist, would his argument be null and void because he was raised in a mainly Christian society?

Halo18

"Did you ever notice...people who believe in Creationism tend to look really unevolved.." - Bill Hicks

Joe Citizen

He is considered one of the greatest geneticists and evolutionary biologists.

http://www.2think.org/dobzhansky.shtml

Read it and then let me know your objections.

Halo18

Now to the actual point of the thread...

" 'Have faith' in the Christian sense, means 'make yourself believe that there is a god without regard to evidence.' Christian faith is a habit of flouting reason in forming and maintaining one's answer to the question whether there is a god."

- Richard Robinson

Joe Citizen

No formal qualifications, just years and years of my own reading.

What are your qualifications?

OMItraffic

He is the boobmaster!

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boobmaster

He does not deny the possibility that the first living thing was created. In fact, he seems to embrace it:


"The organic diversity becomes, however, reasonable and understandable if the Creator has created the living world not by caprice but by evolution propelled by natural selection. It is wrong to hold creation and evolution as mutually exclusive alternatives. I am a creationist and an evolutionist. Evolution is God?s, or Nature?s method of creation. Creation is not an event that happened in 4004 BC; it is a process that began some 10 billion years ago and is still under way."

The diversity argument only holds if one assumes that a creator would not intentionally create so many different life forms. Is this something we really need to assume? The argument is unconvincing!

boobmaster

Isn't that enough?

boobmaster

I have a PhD in a field which incorporates a number of significant aspects of the theory.

Lane

You can only debunk someones explanation of God, but you can't prove that God doesn't exist.

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volante

And you don't see the irony in this statement?

boobmaster

There is a place at which creationism and evolution can come together. i.e., God created the first life and evolution took it from there. (This is not a belief that I personally subscribe to, BTW).

The people over at talkorigins spend a lot of time defending the chance argument. A number of these people are atheists. Atheism is a religion. So basically we have a bunch of christians arguing with a bunch of athesists.

Halo18

You can only debunk someones denial of god, but you can't prove that god does exist.

The burden of proof lays on the believers.

Joe Citizen

Atheism is not a religion.

Atheism is the absence of a theistic belief.

Nothing more, nothing less.

dig420

moron.

Lane

Of course it goes both ways, that's common logic..
However, your conclusion on burden of proof is only biased. If you are so concerned with logic, you would need to consider this statistically, and conclude that what majority agrees on would be more determining on where this burden of proof lies.

Logic and belief don't go together. That's why religion is a matter of 'belief'.

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Rankings

too much trouble

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EZRhino

I dont think religious people are morons or even stupid .... Those people that are freaking fundalmentalists are the scary ones, those that go on TV and use their position influence to make changes in our society based on there own beliefs. And that goes for those that dont believe in god or hate god. They are just as bad as any right wing conservative.

Halo18

At one time the majority thought the world was flat. Majority opinion means next to nothing. A million people can, and have been wrong.

As for someone saying earlier that Atheism is a religion, Joe Citizen fielded that one correctly. the prefix "a" means without.

pood

there are aliens


THE END

$5 submissions

Wow. Nice quote!

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Theo

haha

what can i say. Criteria for a supposed heaven and hell is if you believe or not?

Theo

Halo18

How many of those guides do you really follow though? Do you curse? Did you have sex before marriage?

Most people today aren't Christian anymore, they're SELECTIVELY Christian. They buy into the parts they like, and forget the rules that don't fit their liking.

Also, you're basically supporting ignorant happiness in the case that no god exists... So, an entire lifetime built up around a lie would be ok with you?

I honestly don't have any problem with faith by itself. I think mass organization of religion is a bad idea in general, and this has been proven many times. I won't go into the long list of fuck-ups caused by religion, I'm sure we can all name at least a few. Also the Christian influence on the country that boasts "freedom of religion" is enough to make me sick.

Sometimes I truely feel bad for people that just NEED to believe that there's a higher power. I've had talks with guys who have said things like "I can't imagine how you just don't believe in anything". I guess to some people the thought that this is it, that this life is literally a dead end road, is just too much to accept. So religion comes in to make life easier to deal with. At that level, its fine. But when it starts influencing government, and the lives of people who believe differently.. it's a major problem.

CarnivalOfWhores

There's a great Stephen Hawking "rap" song floating around the internet called "Fuck the Creationists." Anyone heard this one?

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disasterface

The reason GOD can not exist is because I am him. BUT, I live in between multiple existences that you can only see online therefore I do not exist in the typical sense in which HUMANS understand it. Therefore, to you, I don not exist. PROOF.

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detoxed

Wow I guess I lied when I said I wasnt coming back. Bump.

boobmaster

digging up old threads to increase the drama on GFY .......