:thumbsup :thumbsup

it threatens the entire future of mankind, raising kids to be gay doesnt seem to be a good idea.

LOL

:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :1orglaugh

Thanks for the laugh..it's not war, famine, pestilence, or even terrorism that threatens the future of mankind.

It's those damn gays raising mostly unwanted children in a loving safe home.

How dare they endanger the future of this planet by being loving to children!!

:1orglaugh

i want nothing more than less people on the earth

I strongly agree. I have nothing against gay marriage, but a kid that has 2 fathers, that's not right.

marriage should be a union b/w a man and woman for the purpose of bearing children.

why should gay people recieve special treatment while your everyday drug user must hang their head in shame.

allowing gay people to marry will not be good for society in general, especially for the kids who will watch and mimic actions they see.

I explained why already.

don't try to present me as some kind of monster

I'm aware and feel for orphan children. My heart goes out to them, but I don't believe that allowing gay couples to adopt children would solve the orphans problem.

of course having two homosexual parents is better then no parents, but we're discussing another matter of principle, and not ways to solve the orphans problem

what he said, I absolutely agree:thumbsup

WHY is it not right?

i day let them do what they want to if they wanna get married let them. gay relationships aren't that much different from hetero retaltionships, they have ups and downs, breakups, fights, etc....

their divorce rate will probably be about the same as hetero divorces so what's the big difference other than the sexes of the parties?????

more than 50% of marriages end in divorce.

CHILDREN THESE DAYS HAVE 2 MOMS AND 2 DADS

and 2 sets of grandparents and so on, ignorant people i swear.

idiots.

because kids are molded by their parents, they think what they teach them to think, therefore they will be gay as well. they will think being gay is what you are suppose to be.

so is a homophob a sexy and well built jew guy?

I bet you can't even define it..ok, I'll give you some time to google it. but i guarantee you cannot prove me to be a homophob simply because of the fact that I am not

I really wasn't trying to make you look like a total meanie, but it is sad to see all of the unwanted kids. It just makes me think...

Says who? Because it's been "traditional"?
It was "traditional" for the longest time to have slaves.
It was "traditional" for the longest time for women to not have the right to vote.

There are many traditions that eventually got overturned as mankind became more "enlightened". So I ask you, WHO or WHAT is this all knowing power that says marriage should be ONLY between a man and a woman?

And the bit about gay people & drug users..HUH??

yeah, but why starting out by giving the child 2 moms or 2 dads right away, if there is still a chance that straight marriage will not end with divorce?

admit it, you didnt want civil rights for blacks, you think jews like the flavor of zyklon and there is no such thing as a useful woman outside the home.

i love your "traditional" values.

I was talking about having only 2 fathers, no mothers.

I think that kids would get picked on in that kind of situation, and it's just not fair for them. They have no choice, but to live with their parents and by parent I mean MOM and DAD.

I notice you continue to evade my question of PROOF to back up your "convictions". I ask the same of all who make the general posts that gay parents are bad for children and will make them gay.

How about some proof, ANY proof from a respected person/group of people that have studied this issue and found YOUR viewpoint to be true?

Waiting for an answer to this one!

do you argue that kids do not look up and mimic adult behavior?

hey alexg, there is a guy in our history books who shares your thoughts on this, his name was Adolf Hitler.

I enjoy seeing the oppressed become the oppressor.

Funny to see you siding with Hitler, who would have thought? Alongside the jews, Hitler killed in excess of 15000 homosexuals in nazi germany.

history has taught you people NOTHING.

To all who hold the conviction that gay parents have a negative effect on raising adopted children:


"The new study by two University of Southern California sociologists says children with lesbian
or gay parents show more empathy for social diversity.
The study's co-author, Judith Stacey, is a professor of contemporary gender studies.
In addition to pointing out the gender differences in the two groups of children,
she states that there are in fact some advantages to an all-female parental team without
Dad living in the home: a female couple tends to be more involved in the children's lives
and is in greater harmony in terms of parenting approaches.

Among the findings cited by the authors:


1. Compared to the daughters of heterosexual mothers, the daughters of lesbians more
frequently dress, play and behave in ways that do not conform to sex-typed cultural norms.
They show greater interest in activities with both masculine and feminine qualities. They have higher aspirations to occupations that are not traditionally female.


2. In terms of aggression and play, sons of lesbians behave in less traditionally masculine ways.
They are likely to be more nurturing and affectionate than their counterparts in heterosexual families."

who said anything about tradition? a man and a man cannot bear children, im talking about human nature.

gayness is not human nature, its an anomaly.

and about drug users, i was talking about a minority of the population who desire a change in legislation but will not recieve it because it will not benefit society as a whole.

Of course they do. But they don't mimic "sexual preference" behavior.

gayness is NOT an anomaly. It's not only present in the human race, but also in the animal and insect kingdoms.

There is a big difference between a minority and an anomaly.

LESBIAN AND GAY PARENTING

"The great majority of studies published in the past 20 years conclude that there are no notable developmental differences between children raised by heterosexual parents and those raised by lesbian and gay parents. Along the same lines, several medical and mental health professional associations, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Psychological Association have issued formal statements generally supporting equal access to parenting and adoption for gay men and lesbians."

:thumbsup

Bailey, J.M., Bobrow, D., Wolfe, M., & Mikach, S. (1995). Sexual orientation of adult sons of gay fathers. Developmental Psychology, 31, 124-129.



Reports the result of a study of 55 gay or bisexual men who had a total of 82 sons at least 17 years of age. The fathers were recruited through advertisements in gay publications. Eighty-nine percent of the fathers identified themselves as gay. The rest identified themselves as bisexual. More than 90% of the sons whose sexual orientation could be rated were heterosexual. The sexual orientation of the sons was not positively correlated with the amount of time the sons lived with their fathers. The authors conclude that the available evidence fails to provide empirical grounds for denying child custody to lesbian and gay parents because of concern about the effect on the child's sexual orientation.

Golombok, S., Spencer, A., & Rutter, M. (1983). Children in lesbian and single-parent households: Psychosexual and psychiatric appraisal. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 24, 551-572.



Compares aspects of child development in 27 lesbian households with a total of 37 children (aged 5-17 years) and 27 heterosexual single-parent households with a total of 38 children (aged 15-17 years). Data were gathered through systematic standardized interviews with mothers and children and through parent and teacher questionnaires. Ratings of the children's psychosexual and psychiatric status were done "blind" to family circumstances. Results indicated no differences between the children of lesbian and heterosexual mothers in gender identity or sex-role behavior. There was no evidence of inappropriate gender identity among the children of lesbian mothers, and age and developmentally appropriate friendships and good peer relationships were observed in both groups. Psychiatric problems among the children were infrequent in both groups but proportionately higher in the heterosexual single-parent group.

love conquers all, most of the lesbian relationships I've encountered are some of the most loving relationships I've sceen amoung any people. if the parents are in love, the kids see that and it makes for healthier kids.

Gays will ruin marriage. I mean marriage is so sacred to straights as our 60% divroce rate will atest too. And look at straight celebs. Britney Spears 48 hour marriage, JLo's yearly marriages. Liz Taylor, Mickey Roomey. Eight is enough? Not for them it isn't. Gays will just make marriage a joke.

:1orglaugh
gotta love people who jump into conclusions

Incidentaly, ask me sometime how I can have three mothers in law. :glugglug

i will say though that i'd like to see more detailed stats on gay male parents.... i know many healthy gay male relationships and i know a LOT of fucked up ones as well, be interesting to see if gay male parents staistlically have as good results as gay female parents... I'd personally think gay male parents would have about the same ratio as straight parents with buggered kids, but that's just a guess with no fact other than my personal experiences and that's not enough to form a statitically accurate hypotosis....

that might a general statement though on how i think males i general are more fucked up emotionally than females.....

:1orglaugh

I have nothing about gay relationship like I already said, if you would have just listened.

I was only speaking about gay couples adopting children. this is a specific thing that I oppose to

to any study you show that supports your theory, I can find a contradicting one :2 cents:

this thread was about opinions and I don't intent to look for any so called "proof". I have stated my opinion about gay marriage and gay children adopting

As we all know gays will moslest and abuse children. Unlike straight couples.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/07/...ents.abuse.ap/

I see two kinds of people on this thread... Those who think love is the most important thing, and those who let fear rule them.

I can garantee those of you that think a gay couple with a kid will not do anything differently than a straight couple will do. "Good" Parents will guide there kid in the direction they see fit and will do everything in their power to protect them from harm. Anyone outside that family situation has no right to tell parents rather they are gay or not that they are wrong for raising their child the way they choose to do so. So don't use the excuse of someone being gay to condone parenthood. Because there are only good parents and bad parents, and gay parents can be both not just bad parents.
You guys out there preaching that gay couples should not be able to adopt kids or have kids I guess are the same kind of people and parents that preach to your kids that they can be themselves and be true to their beliefs right?

Going back to the first post..

I dont know what you mean by this statement. 46 or 47 state constitutions already state that a marriage is a union between 1 man and 1 woman.
Also, NO state ever has, and never will be, forced to recognize a "marriage" made in one state as valid in their state. Along those lines, in 1996 Clinton signed into law the Defence of Marriage Act (DOMA) which specifically prevents one states lawmakers (ie: the much villified "radically liberal" Mass. Courts) from dictating the definition of "marriage" for any other state.

In short, the story you linked and your statement really have nothing to do with one another, which is why the majority vote was not only against the proposed amendment, it was against any further DEBATE on the proposed amendment.

A genuine slam dunk. Just a dirty campaign tactic, shameful too.

I'm all for it. Only reason to be against it is if you're a bible thumper, there is no other reason - and that's not even a good one.

Exactly! Who does it hurt? I know the opponents say that it will destroy marriage as we know it, but I don't get that. It's not like they're going to force you to divorce your spouse and marry some of the same sex. I have no more problem with two guys getting married than I do with Britney getting married to whomever in a drunken stupor. In fact, I'd rather see a marriage between two men, raising children in a loving and supportive home than to see a LOT of straight couples who don't bother to get married, but crank out a bunch of kids that they'll abuse and ignore and turn into thugs.

what do you want to point out by that?

that there are more psychos among straight people then among gay? it's true, simply due to the fact that there are more straight people then gay

Ah..come one. Put your money where your mouth is (in this case, the 2 cents). Give me just one group EQUAL in stature to the following group that supports your views:

The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychoanalytic Association, and the American Psychological Association have issued formal statements generally supporting equal access to parenting and adoption for gay men and lesbians."

As to my own personal opinion, I see nothing wrong with same sex couples from being "married".

I cant imagine someone being with the same person for 10, 20 maybe 40 years and they die, and because they're gay, they dont get inheritance, they dont even get to visit them in the hospital because they're not "family".

So even if "marriage" is a term reserved for a union between 1 man and 1 woman, I'd be for a civil union that grants similar or same rights to same sex couples as oppisite sex couples get currently.

There's over 1000 legal benefits that a "marriage" gives you.

Very well put.

Agreed. I've been struck by not only personal experience, but the # of studies that backs this up.

And about your later message that maybe it reflects more on men being screwed up over women..I think you're onto something there.:)

And good let them adopt and raise children who grow up to be gay too.

The world needs more gays and lesbians. People need to stop breeding so damn much anyhow.

What is wrong with two fathers? Half the kids in the US probably have two fathers? Mom marries dad, then mom divorces dad and marries Jim Bob, both Jim Bob and biological dad play the dad role.

As far as I'm concerned, if gays want to get married big deal....everyone acts like it is the BIG thing...it is almost like they think that if you stop them from getting married they won't be gay anymore.

Marriage is just a means of cementing a committed relationship. I think they have just as much right to do that then male/female couples do.

I'm surprised actually by the views of many on this board....like being gay is so perverted....yet they peddle fisting, orgies, double anal and everything else under the son...and it is A-OK because somewhere in that tangled mound of bodies there is a male and a female.

Studies have shown that gays who raise children don't turn the children gay. I have a cousin who is gay, been with the same guy for 25 years and frankly, even though they never adopted they would have made awesome parents. Both highly educated, both with great jobs, both stable, very involved in the community and charity work. Hell, I pale in comparison to their commitment to mankind.