Just saw Fahrenheit 911 - GoFuckYourself.com

Drake · 07-12-2004, 05:09 PM

It was an all round good film. Without checking into all the facts, the presentation does appear to be a well researched piece of work. There were definite leaps, inferences, and implications that may not be justified, but even those kernels were interesting facts by themselves and are worth investigating (for example why they let the Saudi's with ties to Bin Laden leave the country after 911).

It's basically a Pro-America, Anti-Bush Establishment film.

Moore requires you to seperate Bush from America. He tries to make it crystal clear that Bush is not synonymous with America and what America represents.

Moore presents America and most Americans as patriotic, loving, kind people who believe in their leaders. He tries to show that Americans are freedom loving people who have throughout their history fought in wars for their country and do proudly today because of the faith they have in their government's decisions about going to war.

On the flipside, he tries to show that the Bush Administration is etching away at the freedoms of Americans and taking advantage of their trust in their government. The parallels between 1) the ties of those in the Bush government to those in the 'terrorist' governments' and 2) the money stood to be gained by US company's with those in the Bush goverment at the head in the war are indeed striking.

Underlying this, he injects the potent long established sentiment that the poor are always the ones that fight and die in the rich man's wars, and that rich men are the major financial benefactors of such wars.

All in all, I give him credit for being able to tack together real life events, footage, and documents into a seamless cohesive work with a purpose and message. I would have to verify the 'facts' as they were presented elsewhere obviously.

For those who haven't seen it should know that it does not suggest any 911 conspiracy. It actually shows that Bush and his administration were caught off guard (right or wrong - I think any goverment in at the time would have been) just like everybody else in the country. What he does imply is that the attack gave the Bush adminstration an excellent opportunity (or excuse, depending on your leaning) to do what they wanted to do but couldn't find justification for previously: knockout Saddam so that they can tap the second largest oil reserves in the world.

The film shows that good people can make bad decisions, like the way the soldier's mother allowed her son to go to Iraq where he was killed, regretfully. Similarly one could get from the film that Bush made a bad decision going to war and for the wrong reasons such as greed and that he refuses to own up to this because of the lives invested and the financial gains he and his collegues intend to reap from it.

In conclusion, I think this film gets people thinking and asking questions. If the facts are untrue than the presentation is mostly unjustified and would be almost be slanderous to the President. But I do believe there is a basis for much of the facts in the film because Moore makes no effort to hide the sources he used, nor those 'in the know' that he interviewed throughout the film. The number of legitimate 3rd party sources he acquired to support his position appear to be too great to be coincidental or completely unfounded.

It's worthwhile to watch this film and judge for yourself.

Bansheelinks · 07-12-2004, 05:58 PM

I watched it; I judge for myself.........keep in my mind I was hoping that this would sway that key undecided 10-15% of the undecided vote if they saw it. I want Bush defeated as he's bad for our industry, pure and simple. In this vein, the movie fails miserably as its partisan tripe. The "facts" are already starting to get knocked down left right and center. Its typical Moore bullshit. He's the bullshit artist of the left just like Limbaugh is the bullshit artist of the right, although I like Moore though more than Limbaugh as Rush is a piece of shit. This movie won't have any effect on the election as its preaching to the choir. There are a lot of hypocrites on this board who give Moore a free pass just because they want Bush defeated. I won't.........but I still want Bush defeated. I have taken countless poly sci courses and feel the effect of this movie is next to nothing, in the end.

Lets put it this way; the real effect of the upcoming election will be Nader. If Kerry loses a close election, its fuckin' Nader's fault.

Drop out Ralph! Now!!

Drake · 07-12-2004, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bansheelinks
Lets put it this way; the real effect of the upcoming election will be Nader. If Kerry loses a close election, its fuckin' Nader's fault.

Drop out Ralph! Now!!

You're probably right. Why is Nader running anyway? What is his agenda? He knows he's not going to win.

Hollywood Horwitz · 07-12-2004, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mike33
You're probably right. Why is Nader running anyway? What is his agenda? He knows he's not going to win.

I think his agenda is quite obvious, I could possibly drop another Moore style conspiracy that Bush is paying Nader off to run in the election,ultimately ruining the election by screwing Kerry. lets just prey Bush loses and we never see his moronic ass again.

07-12-2004, 05:09 PM	#1
Drake Hello world! Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 12,508	Just saw Fahrenheit 911 It was an all round good film. Without checking into all the facts, the presentation does appear to be a well researched piece of work. There were definite leaps, inferences, and implications that may not be justified, but even those kernels were interesting facts by themselves and are worth investigating (for example why they let the Saudi's with ties to Bin Laden leave the country after 911). It's basically a Pro-America, Anti-Bush Establishment film. Moore requires you to seperate Bush from America. He tries to make it crystal clear that Bush is not synonymous with America and what America represents. Moore presents America and most Americans as patriotic, loving, kind people who believe in their leaders. He tries to show that Americans are freedom loving people who have throughout their history fought in wars for their country and do proudly today because of the faith they have in their government's decisions about going to war. On the flipside, he tries to show that the Bush Administration is etching away at the freedoms of Americans and taking advantage of their trust in their government. The parallels between 1) the ties of those in the Bush government to those in the 'terrorist' governments' and 2) the money stood to be gained by US company's with those in the Bush goverment at the head in the war are indeed striking. Underlying this, he injects the potent long established sentiment that the poor are always the ones that fight and die in the rich man's wars, and that rich men are the major financial benefactors of such wars. All in all, I give him credit for being able to tack together real life events, footage, and documents into a seamless cohesive work with a purpose and message. I would have to verify the 'facts' as they were presented elsewhere obviously. For those who haven't seen it should know that it does not suggest any 911 conspiracy. It actually shows that Bush and his administration were caught off guard (right or wrong - I think any goverment in at the time would have been) just like everybody else in the country. What he does imply is that the attack gave the Bush adminstration an excellent opportunity (or excuse, depending on your leaning) to do what they wanted to do but couldn't find justification for previously: knockout Saddam so that they can tap the second largest oil reserves in the world. The film shows that good people can make bad decisions, like the way the soldier's mother allowed her son to go to Iraq where he was killed, regretfully. Similarly one could get from the film that Bush made a bad decision going to war and for the wrong reasons such as greed and that he refuses to own up to this because of the lives invested and the financial gains he and his collegues intend to reap from it. In conclusion, I think this film gets people thinking and asking questions. If the facts are untrue than the presentation is mostly unjustified and would be almost be slanderous to the President. But I do believe there is a basis for much of the facts in the film because Moore makes no effort to hide the sources he used, nor those 'in the know' that he interviewed throughout the film. The number of legitimate 3rd party sources he acquired to support his position appear to be too great to be coincidental or completely unfounded. It's worthwhile to watch this film and judge for yourself.

07-12-2004, 05:58 PM	#2
Bansheelinks Confirmed User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 6,023	I watched it; I judge for myself.........keep in my mind I was hoping that this would sway that key undecided 10-15% of the undecided vote if they saw it. I want Bush defeated as he's bad for our industry, pure and simple. In this vein, the movie fails miserably as its partisan tripe. The "facts" are already starting to get knocked down left right and center. Its typical Moore bullshit. He's the bullshit artist of the left just like Limbaugh is the bullshit artist of the right, although I like Moore though more than Limbaugh as Rush is a piece of shit. This movie won't have any effect on the election as its preaching to the choir. There are a lot of hypocrites on this board who give Moore a free pass just because they want Bush defeated. I won't.........but I still want Bush defeated. I have taken countless poly sci courses and feel the effect of this movie is next to nothing, in the end. Lets put it this way; the real effect of the upcoming election will be Nader. If Kerry loses a close election, its fuckin' Nader's fault. Drop out Ralph! Now!!