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Rose,
It is completely within your right to continue to like 12clicks, and use his program. If you have had a happy relationship with him, then I see no reason why you shouldn't... HOWEVER, you must admit that we have shown, and he has admitted himself, that he writes very immature emails that indicate he places NO effort into the justification that an affiliate is cheating. This could one day be you... Think about it. 12clicks writes: "how many people in our programs go unnoticed month after month, quietly collecting their check? What makes them different than these guys? something. what?" The difference is that they were not suspected of cheating because of a rule change. The difference is that they never needed to deal with the elementary school maturity level of you in an attempt to prove their innocence. The difference is for other people you did not check out their sites when you had a pop-up hell in effect from another site you just closed, and assumed that it was HQ. I know this, because I have been linking with him from day one. Ask any and all of his referrers in the lifetime of his site, and you will get the same answer. Now, let's look at your email one more time: "I've been to your sites. You shit freezes my Mac and you've disabled right clicking on my pc. I have no interest in looking any further. I'm sure XXXXX was right in his/her decision. XXXXX" That's truly pathetic. Zero effort in the justification. Rose, Picture you in the situation in where they thought you were cheating. You ask them nicely, and you get the reply above. Recall that HQ was paid, and that he received an email from mojosearch stating that he would be (thus admitting to their mistake - and 12clicks can simply look in the records for this proof), therefore he was a legit affiliate, as you are. This could happen to you. This is REAL. I am supporting the rights of us as affiliates, Rose. I am, by no means, supporting cheaters. I catch them and report them all the time. I am happy to. I hope that a lot of people are reading this thread. Remember that I am just a bystander pointing out the facts. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
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Aprilkorova,
Thank you for your support. I am here simply to point out the facts. The more people write, the more I am going to respond. Because this is a REAL thing we have to deal with, and I believe that it should not be tolerated in the least. Also, the reasons that you point out for your decision to stay away from mojosearch match mine exactly. I could not have said them better myself. Everyone, please read her post above. Thank you. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
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http://bbs.adultwebmasterinfo.com/ub...ML/001968.html sweetjimmy, Please read the repsonse I wrote to Rose, getting paid is nice until shit hits the fan. Be aware of this. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
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Juge
I dont take sites here cause I dont know situation.I just simply posted "I still like you 12clicks". Yes I still use mojo search but believe me I dont use it much, not that I dont like it,I do but I prefer to send my hits pay per sign up programs. Yes I red thread on that other board, about Lolita links to CP.For me I dont use word Lolita anywhere on my sites,I dont wanna debate legality of that word I just dont use it.If webmaster is linking to CP site I understand he gets terminated, plus I think he is sick.On other side if you link to toplist and on that toplist someone puts links description like Little Girls etc... hmmm I dont know.Yes I link to top lists. I try to link to clean ones,but it's hard. I remember linking toplists which was clean and sent back lots of traffic.But about 2 months latter I checked that list again and it was full of BS descriptions so I droped that list. I feel That if you link to "Top List",which has BS Links descriptions like that you dont always know, unless you check your link trades daily,which I dont.I believe in my own opinion webmaster shouldnt be droped from program just for linking to top list which might have questionable descriptions.But if you link to CP it's another story. |
I don't have time to read this whole thread, but I can vouch for 12clicks. If you don't pull any shit and stick with the spirit of his programs, you'll be paid. Always.
I can also agree with 12clicks that a bunch of people either cheat, try shortcuts, or simply ignore rules. It's a bitch, but it's true. Jimmy, 12clicks is not a racist. He's part black himself. And he's not homophobic either, because he's... we'll I'll let him tell you himself about that one. And for you guys that don't like the way he talks, remember - he's in New Jersey. Just watch a few episodes of the Sopranos and you'll realize that's normal over there. Besides, you guys are bitching about the way someone talks at a place called "gofuckyourself.com"? |
Yes New Jersey and he likes Philadelphia Flyers
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Lensman,
i'm hope your friendship with 12clicks doesn't affect your opinion, or anyone else's opinion, on me. here's their email to me: "I'm XXXXXX from Mojosearch and I've checked out your account, everything seems to be fine. I'm sending your check out for $212.03 for December searches." if i was popping up enough windows with my search result to crash 12clicks computer he would not have paid me. also, all my mojosearch search boxes were removed from my site before 12clicks' employee passed on my complaint to him. when he checked my site, i wasn't using mojosearch any more. how can 12clicks claim that i was popping windows with his search if i didn't even have his search on my page when he checked it? the emails tell the truth. and so do i. anyone who has been in lawusits before realize that the elephant steps on so many mice that it doesn't remember each individual detail of each individual mouse. all the elephant does is go on assumptions. 12clicks, that is HOW you are wrong. lensman, i could care less for how he talks. my problem is that he claims i cheated him. he paid me which means i didn't. his only possible reply is that it was unauthrized by him. if he knew i cheated, he would not have let his employees pay me. lensman, why don't you use your influence to get 12clicks to check his records and see that i didn't cheat him. it's obvious i am legit. ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn [This message has been edited by HQ (edited 04-06-2001).] |
Wow,
Thanks Juge for the link to the AWI thread, I don't lurk there as much as I used to. I thought I was the only one that had decided to not do business with him because of his behavior on the boards. To 12 clicks and his supporters, I don't know him/you, maybe if I knew you it would be different. Maybe, I could see the humor (I use that term lightly LOL) or the man behind it all. All I see is you and your buddies running around insulting and not all of those people you attack are "cheaters" or have anything to do with you or your business. You do it to everyone that you come across with very few exceptions (if any). This is a free country, everyone has the right to be an asshole. But, I would never do business with anyone that treats his peers (oh, excuse me, he has no peers, he seems to see himself superior to all) in such a horribly disrespectful manner at all times. He never takes a break. It's not like he occasionally gets pissed or feels the need to defend himself in a more forceful manner. It could be a post about anything and the insults ensue. Is this good business? This is one of the very few ways adult webmasters can network. Would he be at a business lunch and talk and treat people like this in person and expect it to go over well? His arrogance and illusions of grandeur astound me. I would never do business with someone like this. That was my only point, and I came to that conclusion a long time ago. That is my right. Now, because I feel that way, and am expressing my opinion, I have now opened myself up to personal insulting attacks. That is not cool, and I'm sick of it. On many boards it's the same thing with him. Don't fault me for after months and months, I finally get frustrated enough to voice my opinion. I don't care if he is the best sponsor on earth, I would never want to deal with him or his business buddies for the simple fact that I don't feel he is professional and would treat me accordingly, having never done him wrong. If I had a problem with his program, even just a question, I would expect to get an e-mail something like "Fuck you, you silly stupid bitch..you can kiss my ass, you are irrelevant and if you can't figure it out, too fucking bad." This is solely due to his 100's and 100's of posts on multiple boards, not necessarily by what he may actually do...which is my point. 12clicks has given this impression, whether true or not from how people, like me, see him on the boards. Would it be good biz on my part to take my chances with someone like him and his company, or someone that acts like he AT LEAST has a certain amount of civility and professionalism about him? 12clicks, I admit I don't get it...and since you have called me stupid a few times, I'm sure that doesn't surprise you. How does your behavior help you? I can see, by your posts, that you don't seem to give a rat's ass as to whether it will hurt you or your business. But, really, how does it HELP your business and reputation as a "Big Player" to behave in such a manner to fellow webmasters? BTW, I'm not specifically commenting on the AWI link. I don't know the situation and maybe there were KP links (in which case I would have been equally agitated) or maybe there wasn't. I'm talking about all your posts in general. Another btw, if Rose and Lens like you, than you must have redeeming qualities, that is why I'm so perplexed. |
Why would Ron treat cheaters with any respect? You wonder why he's still in business with his arrogant smart ass attitude, but if it's all directed at people cheating his program, why would it have any effect at all? People who use his program, and follow the rules, would never hear from him. I have seen all these flames aimed at Ron for several years on several boards, and one thing I have noticed, anyone who's anyone stands behind him. Do a search on this board, or AWI, or porncity's board, on all related topics, look at all the people who stand behind 12clicks, and I can tell you you'll find a list of highly respected successful people. Check out all the people who whined and complained and you'll be saying "hey whatever happened to them?" If you want to stand behind a cheater, do your homework, investigate, and make damned sure you know your facts or you'll get eatin' alive.
[This message has been edited by mischief (edited 04-06-2001).] |
Mischief,
I'm not standing behind anyone in particular, nor am I defending anyone he has attacked, except for those inane, insulting posts he has a tendancy to post that have nothing to do with him, his company or anything related to him. Lensman, I forgot to post this before, but my fiancee is from New Jersey, born, raised and educated. He does not behave like that. No matter whare you are from...his behavior is out of line at times, if not always. |
Yo, how ya doin?
Juge, I got a frakin eyeball cramp just readin' your post. Lighten the fuck up. Go make youself a sandwich or somethin'. |
mischief,
i did not cheat 12clicks. every single thing he has said about me is false. i don't care how he treats cheaters. people have cheated me also, and i couldn't stand them. 12clicks should be mad at cheaters. i hate them too. 12clicks has treated (me) an honest webmaster like a cheater. that is wrong. it doesn't matter if 10% of all of us are cheaters. it doesn't matter if lensman stands up for him. none of this makes me a cheater. this is the only point i am arguing right now. if 12clicks would go back and look at his records he would see that i did not cheat him. why would he pay a cheater? this argument is ridiculous. would you like me to post our entire email correspondance? what does it take to make everyone realize that i have never ever cheated 12clicks? mojosearch was off my websites before 12clicks checked them out. 12clicks apparantly found out that i was disabling right clicking to hide my cheating code even though i was no longer using mojosearch. how does this make sense? before anyone comments on this post i think they should read this entire thread. (not directed at just you mischief, i meant everyone.) ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn [This message has been edited by HQ (edited 04-06-2001).] |
MooseCock,
juge's post explain it all. they are good summaries. i'm glad it re-explained how foolish this thread is. 12clicks is accusing me of being a cheater. would you appreciate if your sponsor was doing that to you on a webmaster board? i'm not very pleased with accusations and insinuations that i am a cheater when i have done everything in my power to be the exact opposite. if i was cheating mojosearch then why did i email them 5 or 6 times to check out my code to ensure i wasn't cheating them? why did they pay me? i never had any popups. mojosearch wasn't on my site when 12clicks 'found out' that i was cheating him. ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn |
mischief, how did you get to be so smart? YOU get it. I hope you never open a competing program against me. You would be true competition. Jude, hq, aprilImstupid and the rest will one day tell their kids how right they were against the savage 12clicks as they're finishing up their shift at walmart or the soft pretzel stand this time next year.
hq, you broke our rules, if you got paid it was a moment of weakness from our company. I'm embarrassed by it. I take pride in slapping down those of you who cheat us. The only way we are able to pay more than ANYONE else is to have or webmasters follow the rules. Also, april and you other dopes who think I'm arrogant, I'm not arrogant I just have an understanding of our relative places in this business. You're no different from the guys 2 years ago who are not here today. I'm no different from the guy 2 years ago I was then. Get it? Tell me I'm wrong 2 years from now but please don't presume to know ANYTHING more than me until you've either run an affiliate program that burns through millions a month or have brought an innovation to internet advertising. My business has done both more than once. Re-read mischief's post. he is wise like grasshopper. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif |
12clicks,
You're a prick, and no time will change that. If you think for a minute that two years from now I will be in a Wal-mart than your are as stupid as I think you are. Keep it up, you are making yourself out to be the ass you are. I live for it. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif Keep on making me happy! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif Thanks for giving me the boost I needed to continue with my business like I should. A year or two from now...you will be bankrupt and people like me will be running shit and you, my friend, will be asking "Price check on aisle 16, please?" You could have stopped, I backed off from you a number of times.....no longer. If you think for a minute that I give a shit about you or your business..you are more egocentric than I thought. Fire away...call me every name in the book...it's only to helping your own downfall. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif If you are as egomanically and retarded as I think you are, no wonder you think I'm stupid....I pity you when you find out differently. |
Quote:
April, I've got a hundred grand I'll bet against that statement and I'll be happy to leave it with lensman. How about you put up your hundred grand to match it and we'll see who wins. oops, you can't do that can you? I'd tell you I'd see you in the checkout line but, um, I don't shop there. See you in the morning honey, keep making those tgps, they'll make you millions. |
12 clicks,
You stupid shit...don't you dare presume what kind of income I have at my disposal or even where I shop. I already posted on the other thread, what I feel about you and how I want to settle it. You have seriously mistaken who the fuck you're dealing with. ICQ me prick, I have a few things to set your pussy ass straight on. |
ok april, I've got you all wrong.
put up the 100k or blow away you dumb cunt. |
damn, I wish I started this thread. I'd hate for hq to make anything else off of my work. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
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YOU blow away you dumb cunt!
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ooooh, I guess you showed me! http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
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OHHH, I'm gonna show you.
You just gave me the reason to show up at a convention. And you won't see me coming you fuck! I'll look like any of the other women there. I may proposition you for a lap dance, I may ask you to the back for a private show, etc. And before you get your ass royally kicked, You are going to look up at me with your pathetic geeky stare and say, "WHHHYYYY?" LOL! I can't wait! |
I don't cavort with whores at shows. If you want to catch me off gaurd pretend you can sell me 100k hits a day. hahaha idiot
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For the life of me, I'll never understand why people choose combustibles to put out fires.
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After this little exchange, I have now relized that you are a NOTHING. You have no good comebacks when someone confronts you...(which was the test on this and on the other thread btw). You have shown yourself to be the geeky nerd, anonymous bullshit poster, that you are.
My point has been proven http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif You are a pussy. In the real streets, you'd last as fast as you could run. You disgust me. I can't wait to meet you in person, so I can put you back in your place.....nerd of the school http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/biggrin.gif I'll see you at the next convention, unfortunately for you....you won't see me http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif |
christ, I just peed my pocket protector!
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12clicks,
i didn't break your rules. you paid me and your excuse lacks any logic: your mac crashed and you lacked the ability to get by my disabled right-clicking on your pc. (and i gave you step-by-step instructions on how to get around it.) you got very frustrated over nothing and passed my situation to another employee. fair enough. at least you didn't 'hang up' on me. that employee determined i was legit and should be paid. he/she paid me and reinstated my account. how's the 'unauthorized payment' defense flawed?: if you knew i was cheating with these system-crashing popups, you would not have passed my situation down to another employee. i have the email which proves you did this. it was no mistake or weakness in your company. check your history and logs and you will see. why is it so hard to believe that i might be 100% correct here? i am. your emails and records and logs all show that i am. check my traffic productivity and you'll see that i couldn't have cheated you. 12clicks, your memory deceives you. you have dealt with 1,000s of cheaters in the past, only a few of which you remember anything about. to assume i'm one of these insignificant backstabbers is a good guess according to probability, but it would have been a better guess if my payment was denied. i'm that 1 in 1,000 who isn't a cheater. i was paid, so your assumption should have been that i didn't cheat, and was cancelled by accident. check your records and admit your mistake. i'll eventually show the emails which will prove you are wrong. this will show that you have been lying about me and calling my a cheater. why put yourself in this situation? ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn [This message has been edited by HQ (edited 04-06-2001).] |
What's the lesson to be learnt here?
I believe the only way to ensure you do not get cheated by a sponsor is to use a partnership program where ibill.com or ccbill.com pays you. A lot of click sponsors are unreliable. I've even had problems with per sign up sponsors, even though my ratio was like 1:550 and 1:300. Crazy world. The per sign up sponsors did pay in the end. ** Neutral Post ** Peace, Pete Dogg |
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Have you been reading this thread lately? "...but if it's all directed at people cheating his program..." The point is, that it is not all directed at people cheating. Read the thread and see... Now, Do you still defend him? No one here, who has posted yet, is standing behind a cheater. Isn't it funny how I explained the entire problem in a specific, easy to read, post, and yet the guy has not replied to any of it. All he has done in a single reply is address why I dodged an irrelevant comment that someone else said. If you can't deal with the facts, then stop posting bullshit. The intelligence here is mind boggling. I wonder if he has graduated elementary, yet? No stars for you today. Bad boy. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
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Rose,
I have no problem with 12clicks hating CP, because I think it is sick as shit, myself. However, this is not the issue here. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
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Quote:
It is a common fallacy for people to believe those with 'power' such as Lensman. They believe what they say to be the truth at all times. This is not always the case. Lensman isn't God, so we know this cannot always be the case. Do as a jury would do, and take the facts as they have been presented here. I wish Lensman would do the same, but he has no time to read (probably because my posts are 10 pages long). Lensman: Of course people cheat. I caught a big one for you the other day. (I reported him to you through another company of mine that does not deal with you, to remain anonymous. I do not wish to stir shit up unnecessarily. Remember, I saved a screen shot of the javascript pop-up window that he used as a way to cheat?) Why don't you tell 12clicks that I dislike the bastards as much as he does. Those of you (actually just one of you in particular) who think I support cheaters must have their heads shoved up their ass. I catch cheaters all the time. I report them all. I enjoy doing this. I receive no benefits from the sponsors in doing so. Everyone: The issue here is not about how to deal with cheaters. It's how to deal with people. People who just may be honest. Mistakes happen. The overwhelming evidence that has come from both sides state that a mistake was made. 12clicks wrongly bitched out a legit affiliate, and proved himself that he made no effort in the justification of his actions. Need I quote the email that proves this once more? (Yes, I will, because I will probably get wrongly dissed if it appears that I am offering only an opinion without proof.) The email is question is this: "I've been to your sites. You shit freezes my Mac and you've disabled right clicking on my pc. I have no interest in looking any further. I'm sure XXXXX was right in his/her decision. XXXXX" These are facts people. Funny how no one is responding to the facts. Opinions do not mean anything when there is enough facts to prove a point beyond a reasonable doubt. Lensman: I swear all the time. It doesn't bother me. To have a sponsor accuse a legit affiliate of cheating bothers me. To have this sponsor calling people names on this board whom he has never dealt with before is utterly ridiculous. Please reconsider who you are vouching for. To Lens, and other major sponsors: I know that there is no other major sponsor on this board (or elsewhere) that has the balls to back up 12clicks under the terms of stating that they believe the posts made by 12clicks are justified. How do you justify the bitching out of people who say nothing more except that his posts are very unprofessional. Look on this thread for proof of this before you reply. If you do believe that they are justified, then tell us. Enlighten us. We await. I really, really would like an answer to this. If anyone out there does not believe the way he handles business is respectable, let it be known. Remove his links. Tell your affiliates to do the same. Name calling does not accomplish a thing. Let it be known that this is not acceptable. ------------------ Juge - webmaster of:
[This message has been edited by Juge (edited 04-07-2001).] |
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Quote:
I've look at hundreds of thousands of sites in my time maybe 20 freeze my mac (that's the whole point of me using it and having it set up the way it is) out of those 20, all 20 cheated. Also, out of the hundreds of requests I get to look into why MY people wrongly accused someone of cheating, maybe 5 or 6 were reversed. These are the facts. If this clown got paid, it was a screw up on our end (I'll admit that the screwup may have been that my people didn't save the html) Whatever the case, if his business was worth having, I'd have it. How many traffic brokers do you know with my longevity? How many have come and gone? What makes me different? I know what's valuable and what isn't, I know what's important and what isn't. http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif |
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------------------ ED (icq=103827206) Bikini Island Horny Demon Hotfifty.com |
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I just have to say that i've been trading traffic wih HQ for about 16 months now and i've NEVER seen more then 1 popup on any of his sites. I trust him 100% and he's never been anything but helpfull. ------------------ ED (icq=103827206) Bikini Island Horny Demon Hotfifty.com |
Ted, why would anyone care what YOU think? http://bbs.gofuckyourself.com/board/smile.gif
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Ted?
I'm assuming you meant ED since i can't see a Ted in this thread. (that rhymes) Anyway... Way to go man. I see you're continuing to use childish defensive remarks. ------------------ ED (icq=103827206) Bikini Island Horny Demon Hotfifty.com |
12clicks,
so if a site freezes your mac, then it's cheating one of your programs? that logic is impeccable. did you reload your mac and my site to make sure it was me that froze your mac? no, you moved on to your pc and got caught be my disabled right-clicking and gave up. why didn't you 'save as...'? who wants to use a sponsor who cancels you for no reason and then can't take the time to see that you weren't cheating them? you didn't take the time to see whether i was cheating you or not... so you can't call me a cheater. my emails show this. reload my site right now in your mac, if it froze it then, it should still freeze it now even though i'm not using mojosearch anymore. (anyone got a mac? let me know if it freezes.) i was one of those 5 or 6 reversals. a very likely story that it was a mistake, considering you have no place else to go except admit your mistakes. you'd rather admit that an employee made the mistake of paying me. your longevity and vouches and 'knowledge of importance' do not change the truth. look at your records and you will see that i'm not a cheater. why haven't you done this yet? ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn |
Quote:
Also, you weren't called a cheater for that. My employee marked you a cheater for breaking the rules. The nonsense with your pages crashing my mac just meant that you wasted enough of my time and I wouldn't be looking into your problem. Let me repeat that so it sinks in,"MY EMPLOYEE MARKED YOU A CHEATER FOR BREAKING OUR RULES" |
12clicks,
i'd like to know if my site freezes a mac. can you or anyone check this for me? (2.12% of all my visitors are mac users, gotta respect them!) Your employee marked me as a cheater for breaking the rules, yes, and then changed his/her mind and paid me for not breaking the rules. i'm still not sure which rule i supposingly broke. 1) popping additional windows with your search (which i didn't do)? or 2) target=_blank'ing your results (which i did do, but the rules allowed it back then.) either way i'm clean. i got you personally to over see my code and ensure me that i wasn't cheating you. i have never, and will never, admit to popping additional windows with your search. if this had been the case, there would have been no room for errors on your side. my traffic productivity would also show that i didn't do this. (that post on the other thread was suppose to tell everyone that i'm not arguing over money. MOJOSEARCH PAID ME EVERYTHING THEY OWE ME.) ------------------ HQ HQ's Daily Nude http://www.hqdailynude.com/ Traffic Trade? http://www.hqdailynude.com/webmasters.html Free Content? http://www.oliver-klozov.com/cgi-bin...i?ref=hqdailyn [This message has been edited by HQ (edited 04-07-2001).] |
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