steve_cobra

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ...

FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. More than 900 per month.

Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson... turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton... went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. Clinton was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his
own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick. It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military moral is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

steve_cobra

Disregard the other double-posted thread.

Meta Ridley

Disregard this thread as well.

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steve_cobra

Yeah, good idea. It's much easier to mindlessly bash Bush and suck off Michael Moore.

It gets a lot tougher to actually debate and GASP...get a mind of your own.

boobmaster

So much for the idea that liberals can engage in an honest, friendly debate.

genomega

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boobmaster

... especially since Michaels Moore has such a small penis. But I guess the small penis thing is a fetish among liberals.

Meta Ridley

You're so intelligent troll.
Noone is paying attention to you anywhere else on the internet so why not try here. Guess what.

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xxxdesign-net

wow.. you have alot of time to waste.. all those points you are trying to bring without never adressing the main issues..


#1 Not being attacked by Iraq first is not why Bush is mainly blamed

#2 35 murder in Detroit last month? whats your fucking point? 35 is nothing? Go tell that to the famillies of the 800+ soldiers that died...

#3 Crippled alquaida and the Taliban? Whats your point? You think only Bush could have done that after 9/11?

#4 Most experts are saying that they'll never find WMVs in Iraq... why is an amateur observer like you try to rationalize it telling us that they didnt have enough time to find anything.. lol

Give it up

xxxdesign-net

False... Bin Laden was only a suspect at that time..

Pleasurepays

How many US soldiers are killed?... how many innocent Iraqi's people killed. 10,000? 11,000 men, women, children?

oops! sorry.... shit.... did i say "Iraqi people"... I meant to say "collateral damage"

boobmaster

The world IS a hell of a lot safer since the Taliban went down. We cannot allow any country to have a radical, extremest Islamic government. That kind of government ONLY breeds terrorism and hatred of non-muslims.

steve_cobra

Could have fooled me. "Hussein was no threat to America" seems to be the Liberal rallying cry.

I'm a Marine. I know what the word sacrifice means.....do you? It's easy to be a keyboard warrior. If people like you ran our country in the 40's, we'd have never made it.

Best point yet. I guess the bombing at the WTC the first time, the two American Embassies, and the USS Cole just wasn't enough for Clinton. 9/11 would have gotten more promises that "People are going to pay!" before he did exactly nothing.

That Saddam was a great guy. I'm sure left on his own, he wouldn't have done anything but just mind his own interests.....

crockett

ok sure please tell me why Iraq's borders are more important than the United States Borders?

why dose our fearless leader the self proclaimed Mr do good want to cut funding for our border patrol at a time we need to be raising the funds?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...3623-8745r.htm

is my protection as an American citizen not as important as an Iraqis?

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steve_cobra

I can agree with that. I'm not a mindless supporter.

xxxdesign-net

You know damn well that Bush didnt go to war to free Iraquis! Bush himself told during the election debate in 2000 that the US should STOP playing heros in other countries and take care of their own.. That was the position of the republicans...

Never Bush or Powell said they were going to Iraq to free the population when trying to make their case... It was all about the WMVs and terrorist threats... Blair was the first to brough up the issue and that was after the war had started if I remember correctly... and it was done only to calm the critics that were now getting more vocal


edit: oops I tought you meant how many people were killed under saddam... or is that what you meant.. ?

xxxdesign-net

Why are you telling me that? I do not desagree with that.. and never said otherwise..

steve_cobra

More "Innocent Civilians" died while Clinton was in office. Hmmm, funny how that works.

The world is a scary place, huh?

Pleasurepays

You mean Clinton killed them by lying to the world and then "liberating" them?

<IMX>

I'll bit on your troll fodder. Pretty easy to turn a silly chain letter in reverse. As it only sites democrats it is easy to spot as foolish and typical repub banter.

I'm a libertarian btw... and I actually supported the iraq war just not the false pretense (contradiction I know, but I don't tow the entire party line).

>>There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

So why is Bush spending over 100 billion on a foreign country, if u.s. states need the money.
>>>>

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following ...

FDR... led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. More than 900 per month.
>>>>
Poor grasp of history...Japan basically pre-emptively struck the mobilizing U.S. fleet at pearl harbor, as they knew the U.S. was going to enter the war. Japan declared war right before the attack but the message ended up being delayed in some far-away u.s. embassy. Then Germany declared war on the U.S. also (a bad tactical mistake on hilter's part). However, FDR wanted to go to war on the side of the allies, he waited his time though...unlike Bush.



Truman... finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.
>>>
Poor grasp, that was U.N. sanctioned, unlike iraq. Also, it had IMPORTANT cold war implications, as communist china was feeling its oats against the rest of the world. Very different from pissant iraq.


John F. Kennedy... started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.
>>>
Again, poor grasp. Actually Esienhower was the first U.S. pres to support the French war in Indochina.

The concept of communist containment wasn't unique to any political party (demo/repub) that was the accepted U.S. cold war policy. We were going to try to contain communists on every front. The same war was carried through administration after administration...same reason why Reagan aided Contras, invaded Grenda, armed Iraq and Iran and trained Osama.

Johnson... turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.
>>>
Leaving out Nixon and Eisenhower...how nice.


Clinton... went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. Clinton was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
>>>
Over simplified. So, does this mean conservatives are giving Clinton credit now for Bosnia? and ending the ethnic cleansing there? (similar to their NEW stance on iraq?) Please describe the three times Clinton was given Osama. Also, please include the fact that we trained Osama for our cold war purposes in Afghanistan.

>>>>>>>>>
In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his
own people.
>>>
Pretty poor grasp and way oversimplified.
1.) Afghanies are begging for more help, and we've allowed a former Baathist to lead the new government.

2.) Libya was trying to re-enter the geo-political spectrum long before sept 11. Quadify knows how to play politics.

3.) Iran is resuming its nuclear program quite publically, and we still don't have a deal in North Korea to actually inspect the sites we want to.
>>>>>
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick. It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
>>>
this is jus tstoo silly to comment on.

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military moral is high! The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.
>>>
Keep yourself on fox newsletter mailing list buddy, get more gems like this one.

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xxxdesign-net

sorry you are no match.. I wont debate with you.. each of your replied failed to make sense... damn I missed 12clicks... he atleast made sense 1 time out of 3...

and just to answer your 3rd point.. which is close to make a bit of sense.. What did Bush do when he got in power??? NOTHING? It took 9/11 to get them going!! Didnt your heard about the 9/11 commission?? looks like Clinton was doing much more than Bush on terrorism... Where was Bush' mind?? Iraq...

Lensman

steve_cobra is obviously not an adult webmaster. No sig, yahoo email address, no url in his profile, and NO ADULT WEBMASTER in his right mind could support the current administration.

goodbye

crockett

the Taliban went down? humm you better tell them that because I don't think anyone told them. Don't think just because Bush claimed it a victory that it's anywhere close to being over there.

http://paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=69810

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default...8-7-2004_pg7_2

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<IMX>

Damn Lens. I wanted him to actually respond to the outright historical inacuracies he posted

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crockett

HINT HINT >>>>> BenzWitRims

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Keev

things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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Mike AI

Meni, where are you?!?!?!

Speak up Meni!!

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Pleasurepays

He is balled up in the fetal position in a dark apartment somewhere in FL crying and waiting for government storm troopers to kick in his door and take him away because somehow it will either benefit Halliburton or hurt Stern.

<IMX>

Not much debate, after all you can't really debate when somebody's evidence is so riddled with factual errors--that's before you get to their interruptation.

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Snake Doctor

Dayum...I'm putting that last line in my sig

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Tom_PMs

Woops! I better put something in my sig soon

12clicks

yeah, after a whole 4 years this administration has just about killed the entire industry.

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Joesho

Moron !Scammers and cheaters like you and your anal licking friend Brad "little weasel" shaw, have done far more to hurt the industy from within, than The administration has been able to do, (only cause they were busy stealing oil, and defrauding the us population with outrageous gas hikes)

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montel

go to bushgame.com for the truth

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FlyingIguana

but you forgot to mention that iraq didn't attack the states...

but you mention it everywhere else where you are trying to make a point.

Gunni

Personally I don't give a fuck about the war in Iraq!

What I do care about on the other hand is the fact that when Spain introduced the Euro I got 1 Euro for 1 Dollar...
Now I get about 0.75? for $1, so it really sucks to be getting payed in dollars at the moment!
I mean the main reason you should get rid of this guy is the fact that he has fucked up your economy really really badly!

Also this whole conservative bullshit about christian values.
The patriot act, countless examples that show that they are slowly taking all your rights away, and you have to be either blindor looking somewhere else not to see that

EviLSuperstaR

This utter bullshit is repeated by stupid conservatives in many spam mails, boards, etc. A very, very pathetic attempt.
First of all Germany declared war to the US right after Japan attacked the US...

FlyingIguana

if it wasn't for 911 they would have targeted porn a lot more.

jade_dragon

I have no major political standing one way or another, i believe presidents are usually the lesser of 2 evils so please do not label me anything other than observer.

But someone said it best, we should be worrying more about how our rights as americans are being systematically taken from us one by one under the guise of beuilding up more democratic principals. The debate is fine and dandy for informing each other of mistakes we have made in arguing our feelings but is userless if.

1) You refuse to take into account that another person may have a more logical and more correct view of the situation. Refusing to budge on your stance is pointless in debate.
2) You do not look at everything connected and only worry about proving your point. Debate should show you the bigger picture than you alone know of.

This whole Bush admin thing was about inside contracting and getting big business done. Most people complaining about this are mad because

1) They were not smart or powerful enough to make the connections and scheme on the level that the boys in office have. How many times does someone hate you just because you have the lock on something. People HATE people who are able to monopolize based on brain power or connections, this is no differant.
2) Their loved ones are being used as the force to put the above acts in motion. There are also those who just love everyone and do not like to see killing, they are growing in number. Remember everyone is not ok with war "justified" or not

I am not going to say that this whole war was thought up to do the above but anyone who does business should be able to cut through the crap and see business connections and insider contracting at work to make money off it. We have a businessman as a president, more than that we have a businessman who's dad is a businessman who has friends who are all businessmen as president. Can we really expect him to put down multi million dollar opprotunities for the chump change he is payed to run the country? Also how much power do you really think he has? There are checks and balances, they are of course tained many times, but I guess we need a scape goat so to the top we will go!

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fuelcell

No. I prefer simple-minded namecalling you fucking dumbshit.

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stev0

"In the two years since terrorists attacked us President Bush as liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his
own people."

Crushed the Taliban? Big deal.. they were our allies. Crippled Al-Qaida? how do you figure... they're have been more Al Qaida attacks after the "war" then there ever was before.

And Saddam never slaughtered 300,000 of his own people, those were Kurds and incase you didn't know there has been a civil war going on in Iraq for decades on the Iraq / Iran border.

Information can always be twisted to make it look better.

jade_dragon

Militants are like viruses, all you need is one out there and they will infect others and a new outbreak is made, this is one of the reasons terrorist orgs are called cells. So crushed them....I suppose, but as long as one person out there thinks it was a good idea there can be a rehashing. Remember when dealing with religion a martyr can be made easily, sometimes killing and adversity only make things stronger.

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SuckOnThis

I agree. And the fact that I dont think it would be a very popular move with the average American. If Bush is there for another 4 years I think we are going to see major changes in porn and other things the far right considers immoral. Another 4 years of Bush and this country will be a total Christian nation. Get those fuckers out of there while there is still a chance.

mcfly

interesting how you only list U.S. casualties in January. how many thousands of iraqi citizens were killed? i think that iraq death count still trumps america's murder capital. and what, for that matter, is your point? are liberals saying 35 deaths in detroit is ok?

i am not certain what you are trying to prove with this. if the bush administration had sold the war in iraq on huminitarian grounds, perhaps more would be willing to accept the consequences. instead, they manufactured a connection to 9/11, "evidence" (WMDs, etc.) and threat (future iraq attacks) in order to sell the american people a war we didn't buy. THIS is the chief complaint among liberals.

you say this as if the viet nam war was a good thing? can't we learn from past mistakes instead of repeating them?

my understanding of the Bosnia conflict was that our participation was as a member of a UN peace-keeping force.

really? i didn't realize that iraq or afghanistan had truly been liberated at this point. both are currently being run by puppet governments and continue to see violence on a daily basis. and hussein was not a terrorist. he was a dictator.

a) we are still facing combat situations in iraq. just because (p)resident jackass struts around on an aircraft carrier and declares "mission accomplished" does not make it so. since that laughable display, we have lost something in the neighborhood of 700 soldiers in iraq. some accomplishment
b) wrong. bush moved the weapons inspectors out of iraq. until he told them to leave, they were actively searching for weapons, which they didn't find. hussein DID NOT kick them out despite what cheney, limbaugh and drudge would like you to believe.

this is the only portion of your post that is actually true. learn the facts. then decide whether bush is doing such a "great job". he has misled the citizens of this country and has created problems for us that will take generations to repair. he MUST be removed from office.

tony286

Here it goes W gets another four years

25% to 40 % I would guess of the webmasters on this board will be drafted. Single young people and in good health perfect for the draft.
Lets see how you defend the war when your sitting in Iraq and your business is going down the tubes here.

I would say at least another 25% percent are going to get arrested by the religious zealots. I want to hear 12 clicks pro w
speeches while they are dragging him out of his office in handcuffs thats based on if he even does adult anymore.
Wake the fuck up people.