Lord Assmore

here you have to be patient It takes quite a while for the SE's to spider the pages you've submitted to and recognize this new 'link-popularity'... Also, keep in mind that these FFA pages give a lot lesser link-popularity boost than having listings with more respected and highly-esteemed sites, like Yahoo.

Remember, the link-popularity criteria became a part of the SE algos in order to restrain spamming.

justined

should you not be careful blasting all the ffa sites with some of the auto spammers, I'm sure a lot of them get pissed off with with adult links not to mention report it.
or does anyone edit the list of 3000 or so sites.

Just curious how you hit the ffa's with adult sites, I blast them all with non-adult pages but haven't decided wether or not it's a good thing to do with the adult stuff.

someone clue me up...

J

Fart

TGP owners could build their own link pop instantly. Submit ALL the galleries with your recips on them. The #1 spot for persiankitty in Altavista is much about link popularity from all the recips. Also, tell the gallery submitters to put up text links with relevant keywords in the links such as <a href=yoursite>This TGP got hardcore sex pictures</a> if you are targeting "hardcore sex pictures". Or if it's a button then ask for alt tags with your keywords in them.

As for getting all the URLs into a submission script or software. It's getting a little spammy but I'm not affiliated with them and http://www.submitta.com/ is the ONLY software I know that auto-imports your URLs from virtually everywhere. SubmitWolf and WebPosition don't do that, correct me if I'm wrong. At the very beginning I started with SubmitWolf since that was nearly the only software for stuff like that back then but it wasn't good for the bulk side of submission...

SE traffic is very well worth it I'd say, but like just everything in the biz it also got harder to work the engines. Not because they are so smart, besides google they still aren't I'd say, but because they fuckin don't update anymore (almost). Time ago, when infoseek, altavista and others updated daily, and the others weekly, you could figure out how they work through trial and error in no time. Now Infoseek is gone, Excite and Lycos just don't update anymore, Altavista put that graphic code so you can't use auto submitters anymore (and updates only weekly now, sometimes only bi-weekly), Yahoo takes money, Dmoz editors list their own sites, but hell it's still worth it . Pay yahoo for listings, work on altavista and yahoo manually, and submit the others with software. Can't go wrong with that, there will be some sales (not only traffic) after a few to a couple months. And it's not rocket science either. Good thing is the SE results are more stable nowadays, takes longer to get in but you stay longer as well.

ED

who here likes beer?
i'm a bit bored... been awake for 22 hours. sitting home alone at the computer drinking some Bud.


------------------
ED (icq=103827206)
Bikini Island
Horny Demon
Hotfifty.com

HQ

what is so special about http://www.dmoz.org/ ? it helps your link popularity in other SEs? i don't get it.



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Warphead

HQ

DMOZ is the actual DB behind some of the biggest SE's. Technically not a search engine, it's a directory of websites. DMOZ doesn't get much traffic, but a lot of the SE's we all know get their results from them - so getting a good listing there gets you a good listing lots of places.

Doctor Dre

Yeah DMOz kick ass Well I read all the topic and found interesting post on ffa and dorways pages . I personally don't use ffa and might try soon where can I have more info about that ?

rhizome

HQ,

When it comes to link popularity, certain SE's priviledge directory listings. So for example, if Google sees that an FFA is linking to your site, it will give 1 point for link popularity. However, if Google sees that DMOZ is linking to your site, it will give 100 points. In other words, when it comes to link popularity, a DMOZ listing is worth the value of 100 ordinary links to your site. This weighting of course varies depending on the SE. So it is false to say that a DMOZ listing only helps you with the SEs that pick up DMOZ's RDF dump.

Lord Assmore

I just found this page: <a href="http://www.top9.com/top99s/top99_search_engines.html">Top 99 Search Engines</a>, a great help for deciding which SE's to focus and work on.

Juge

Man there's a lot of info being dealt out here. Again, I'll ask if anyone has used www.thepromoter.com? I've only ever used that and www.addme.com, I believe, and I get 300 hits/week from a single small search engine, and I was quite happy, since I've only ever submitted to each of them once, and never bothered with it after. That was back in the day when I had about 10 link partners...

Has any had success with these?

This brings up another point - thepromoter.com says to resubmit once a month. We all know the SE do not like it if you resubmit 5 times a day. Well, what if you use 2 submitters that both submit the URL to the same engines, for the most part? I could see doing this to try and submit to the largest number of engines, but you will be submitting to the same, most popular SE's out there, so will they reject your submits? I assume yes - since these things are just bots to do the work for you, and they have no special privileges (in fact, I bet the SE's hate them).

I guess I just answered my own question

------------------
Juge - webmaster of:

• Juge's Bikini and Thong Page - http://www.jugesbikini.com/
• Juge's Weekly Wallpaper - http://www.weeklywallpaper.com/
• Daily Bikini Babe - http://www.dailybikinibabe.com/

[email protected] - Email me for link exchanges

HQ

Warphead, rhizome...

i undrstand DMOZ a bit better. it just doesn't make sense that serach engines would all use DMOZ's database. if i enter my url to DMOZ, do search engines using DMOZ automatically have my site submitted? i just don't get it. i must be missing something here... and what is "DMOZ's RDF dump"?

and whether i understand it or not, you say it kicks ass, so what should i do? submit my links to DMOZ (and to all the search engines that use DMOZ)? and this improves my link popularity with all those SEs? is there anything else i should do?

fuck i sound like a moron. fuck it. i hate it when i don't fully understand something.



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Lord Assmore

The theory is that many major SE's use DMOZ in their constant struggle against spam. If a site is in DMOZ, it signals to the SE that it probably isn't a case of spam (a human has had a look and approved it for inclusion).

On the issue of submitting: Wherefrom your submissions are done is of minor importance, what matters is the IP # of the site you're submitting.

The major SE's see it like this. One IP address = one site.

[This message has been edited by Lord Assmore (edited 03-28-2001).]

DarkJedi

Now, can anyone please explain to me HOW THE FUCK THIS PAGE http://home.t-online.de/home/HennigPeter/brit/brit.htm
GOT A #2 position on Google for the keyphrase "brtiney spears nude" with a link popularity 0 (zero)

???????

------------------
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[This message has been edited by DarkJedi (edited 03-28-2001).]

Lord Assmore

DarkJedi, I couldn't verify this...

well, the SE's usually rotate the top rankings. I've been at the top of Goggle's search results a couple of times for a few key phrases, but these top rankings typically only lasted for a day.

As for the link popularity, a search at AV revealed that HenningPeter is linked to by 135 other webpages.

[This message has been edited by Lord Assmore (edited 03-28-2001).]

MattressKing

I once created about 15 sites, each with 300 doorway pages, and then submitted all of them to 900 search engines (each only got an actual listing on about 250 s.e's). But anyways, I got around 600 visitors that day. Good traffic yes, worth the time n effort, ummmm maybe????

Fart

"HOW THE FUCK THIS PAGE http://home.t-online.de/home/HennigPeter/brit/brit.htm
GOT A #2 position on Google"

The single page isn't the only thing to be concerned about. The page that you are referring to is on the biggest free host in europe, and you can bet the root domain of that page has good link popularity.

HQ

MattressKing, were the 15 domains all on the same IP? all my sites are on the same IP. i wish i knew how much this will hurt me.

what i keep thinking is that if someone makes 1,000 doorways on a single domain, then all 1,000 are on the same IP even if each domain has a unique IP... so it shouldn't hurt that bad, right?

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Dopy

Fart

Why should it not be at pos 2 ?

You did not say your search word/words.

HQ

Dopy, read the whole thread! Fart didn't say the search words cuz DarkJedi did.



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Dopy

Firstly, the aforementioned site does not have a link popularity of zero. If you get your site in the top 10 the last thing you want to do is show how. A little knowledge is very dangerous when playing with search engines. There are only 50 top ten places in the top 5 engines and a million web pages trying to grab one of them.

Good luck.


I looked a little deeper into this guys site - he is very smart.

[This message has been edited by Dopy (edited 03-28-2001).]

HQ

Dopy, good point about there being only 50 top ten places in the top 5 engines. but rememeber that's only for people who serach "free nude pics". if you search "naked babes" you now have another 50 top ten places... and so on...


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DarkJedi

Hey, I said that page got a zero link popularity on Google - no AV.
And i'm sure that root - biggest european provider or whatever has something to do with it. Imagine how geocities pages should rank if thats true.

Check it out on www.jimtools.com/


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stevent03147

This is a good topic and one I've never had much success with. In just over one year I have had;

goto.com 106 (58%)
excite.com 29 (16%)
yahoo 28 (15%)
go2net.com 6 (3%)
lycos 6 (3%)
altavista 6 (3%

That much SE traffic. LOL If anyone is feeling generous and wants to look at my source code to tell me why I am a SE reject...LOL please feel free. BTW I have had Unique: 280151 since feb 2000. and less than 2hundred is SE traffic. It's there..I want it..I submit to SE and see what I get?
If Yahoo! dosen't want me..they can
********GO FUCK THEMSELVES******* :x)

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PerfectPanties.com

Fart

BTW that page on t-online.de might not last for long because they officially don't allow adult. On the other hand they are not looking for it themselves. But if someone complains he most likely will get pulled. Funny thing he has his real name in the URL so he doesn't care either.

HQ

Fart, that would just be mean!

i was looking at the top results for 'nude pics' and other searches i assume to be popular... and they sites just stink. damn i wish i could be there instead.

some of them aren't even sites. here's altavista's #1 result for 'nude pics':
http://www.korealink.com/public/teen/messages/6610.htm

a child-porn-wanting mother-fucker's post!



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Lord Assmore

I've touched on this in earlier posts... The SE's are fighting back, they are using a bag of tricks that makes it very hard for the spammers to figure out their ranking algorithms.

Two techniques used by the SE's in order to confuse the spammers, that I've heard of, are to rotate the top results and to place sites at the top almost at random, without full enforcment of their own ranking criteria.

HQ

Lord Assmore, is that what you meant by rotating the top rankings? although it would be random, if you hit #1, i can't see it being totally by random. so that means that whoever is there did something right.


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Lord Assmore

The rotation consists in listing diffrent sets of first-page search results.

For highly competitive key phrases, I would say it's 100% sheer luck who hits the top.

I've been at the top of Goggle's search results a couple of times, but only for a short period of time, and that with pages not specifically optimized for Goggle or any other SE.

Many top-ranked sites are plain shit, both when it comes to coding and content (body copy). This makes it hard to believe that they've been designed with care to achieve top-rankings.

Dopy

Lordassmore

At last someone who is seeing the light, the dreaded algorithm. Top search engines know exactly what the common tricks are and boy do you pay penalties for them. The only real way to stay on top is to pay for regular information updates and these are not always accurate. Every good sumitter has his guarded secrets, its a bit like the world of magic tricks. I have many years experience in this field and my advice to anyone here is play by the engine rules and stay well within their boundry lines - never over submit. I am currently doing some work for my friend Susan who as a born cheat was spamming the search engines, she can now see why their top engine traffic was so low. And by the way everyone, you can get a Yahoo listing without paying the dollars.

HQ

Dopy, am i at risk with submitting all my sites when they are on the same IP? it just doesn't seem that this makes sense... same domain name i could see, but not same IP.

i hear of guys creating 300+ doorways all hosted on the same domain (and same IP obviously) and if more than 1 of them gets listed, than the same IP theory is out the door...

i'm about to start testing, but i'm waiting just a bit longer so as to learn as much as possible before i try...



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Dopy

HQ

I personally do not exceed 100 pages/domain and never submit more than 3 pages each day, some only submit 1. Sub domains can be a grey area and it has been said that some free hosts get penalised. This applies to the top 5 engines although care should be taken right up to the top 15. Play safe and add domain names, it will pay you in the long term. One of the best ways to channel search engine traffic is to work with a few like minded partners and cross link yourselves. Look for back door methods of pulling in traffic - you can't link adult sites from non adult but you can bring them over softly with buffer pages, bikini and non nude sites play this game.

Finally, if you keep adding small collection points to your network, eventually they will all add up to significant amounts of traffic - apply the multi level marketing rules.

[This message has been edited by Dopy (edited 03-30-2001).]

Lord Assmore

Dopy, are you with me on my ideas on the importance of the IP address, which I've learned from SE boards and personal experience? --For greater SE exposure and better rankings, host these new domains, that you're adding, from different dedicated IP addresses. This would give almost the same effect as linking up with other webmasters (the difference being that they have other inbound links, which your fresh domains lack).

Thanks to Dopy's well-informed views, I think we're now seeing some really valuable tips here.


[This message has been edited by Lord Assmore (edited 03-30-2001).]

ED

I can see how having different IP addresses would help.

HQ

Dopy,

thx for the great info. now each of these 100 pages, do they all interlink to each other? and do they link to all the 100 pages on every domain you use?

i don't think i'm going to mess with subdomains at all.

i have a few partners i can team up with, only thing is we are all on the same IP. damn!

and what do you mean by adding small collection points to your network?

Lord Assmore,

this unique IP thing is going to kill me! let's say i have 100 domains. i already have to pay $1,500 / year for that. if i have to get a new IP for each domain, that's $2 / IP / month, or $2,400 / year just for the IPs!

-----

and now for my own idea... i have a few (real) sites going already. would it be good to make a fake links page off of those sites that links to all of my doorway pages too? a link that a spider would catch, but not a surfer? -2 font black text on black background or something?



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Dopy

HQ

Just a quickie cos I have to be out in the next 20 mins.

Yes you must cross link all those pages and keep some kind of record or you will end up in a mess. You should also keep a submit record unless you are using software to control everything.


Later..

Lord Assmore

HQ,

Try to get a least a couple of different IP:s. You'll be amazed by the results.

And yes, in addition to your own links page, which lists all your domains' warning pages, you should as well have pages with links to all the doorway pages. But do not try to trick the SE spiders with them, the chances are high this will only lead to trouble.

-2 font black text on black background is an old spamming technique which the SE spiders reafily regognize. If they pick up such a page you'll be penalized by either not getting the page indexed at all or with incredible low ranking.

Here's an excerpt about AV:s views on spamming:

<small>
In order to maintain the integrity of the search index, we must sometimes exclude
submissions that manipulate search results. Examples of such manipulation include, but
are not limited to, the following:</small>

<ul>[*]<small>Pages with text that is not easily read, either because it is too small or is obscured by
the background of the page,</small>[*]<small>Pages with off-topic or excessive keywords,</small>[*]<small>Duplication of content, either by excessive submission of the same page, submitting the
same pages from multiple domains, or submitting the same content from multiple hosts,</small>[*]<small>Machine-generated pages with minimal or no content, whose sole purpose is to get a
user to click to another page,</small>[*]<small>Pages that contain only links to other pages, or</small>[*]<small>Pages whose primary intent is to redirect users to another page.</small>[/list]<small>Attempts to fill AltaVista's index with misleading or promotional pages lower the value of the
index for everyone. We do not allow URL submissions from customers who spam the index
and will exclude all such pages from the index.</small>

---------------------
Dreaming while awake is a frightening contradiction


[This message has been edited by Lord Assmore (edited 03-31-2001).]

Gemini

Hmmm since ARLES or whoever did away with the IP addys for every domain some of this info is going to have to change. Their whole purpose was to lessen the strain on IP numbers without having to add another set of numbers to them. Just like the phone numbers. Wouldn't the SE's have to start shifting to actual domain names themselves in order to properly list sites?

HQ

Lord Assmore,

so the SEs figure out the black text on black background stuff. i already knew that. but i used to do stuff like this to hide my personal stats links that i didn't want surfers to waste their time on. would hiding my stats links hurt my site's SE rankings? or would it only hurt my the stats page's SE rankings?

i never thought that my simple tricks may have been mistaken as SE manipulation.... ouch!



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Dopy

Guys

I know this sounds really nasty and not in keeping with why we are here but this is business and we are here to make money for our own ends.

Help people with search engine basics sure, but take my advice, if you find a winning formula keep it to yourself. Search engines frustrate people so badly that they are looking for free advice everywhere. I know some of you guys are well on track with all this and working hard to make it all work, don't throw away your hard work, you alone deserve the rewards it will bring. After all this is business and you must treat it just like any other.